Fork me on GitHub
#ask-the-speaker-plenary
<
2020-06-24
>
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations07:06:45

Really nice examples to show the impact of “dominant architecture”. Not a term I’d heard before. Reminds me strongly of Kuhnian paradigm.

👍 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili07:06:30

I bet @genek is finally learning the mental model by teaching it to others.

👍 1
😂 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili07:06:30

I bet @genek is finally learning the mental model by teaching it to others.

👍 1
😂 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili07:06:31

Learning is a great Ponzi scheme where you have to become a teacher to get to the master level.

😂 2
inactive07:06:38

I forgot the slide that mentioned Team Topologies by @matthew and @me1208, which I think is a brilliant book that describes these concepts in fantastic detail.

👍 5
Simon Williams07:06:14

"the more we can outlearn the competition" ❤️

👋 1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations07:06:15

Lots of great lessons in contrasting the NUMMI plant with other GM plants that only adopted the trappings of the Toyota system without having the culture.

👍 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili07:06:33

I wish @genek would stop with the book references. My reading list is overflowing

😂 6
😆 3
😀 1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations07:06:06

Listening to this it seem like structure is like a consistent Nudge towards a certain kind of behavior.

👆 1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations07:06:06

Listening to this it seem like structure is like a consistent Nudge towards a certain kind of behavior.

👆 1
Kurt A07:06:11

It's either a nudge or it ends up being a matter of having to swim upsteam all the time, fighting the current.

1
Davy Kenis07:06:20

I start to wonder whether there is a relationship between war/army and IT organizations, seen al the books refering to US army or historical wars :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:. Love it!

Davy Kenis07:06:20

I start to wonder whether there is a relationship between war/army and IT organizations, seen al the books refering to US army or historical wars :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:. Love it!

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations07:06:41

I think it is that war/army provides a documented history of different approaches and outcomes, and then we have IT trying to learn from any where they can.

Kurt A07:06:31

War metaphors have been common, but in the SRE community there is pushback to "demilitarize" along with a drive to make things work for "normal people" not just heroes. Hero culture is a bad anti-pattern.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:03

I didn’t take @U015MU9E3UN’s comment as about war/military metaphors but rather about taking lessons learned from military literature. (Agree that hero culture is an anti-pattern.)

Davy Kenis09:06:51

exactly @jtf!

inactive07:06:47

Correction: it’s not just a thought experiment — this is what healthcare orgs have done to enable teams to communicate needs. Spookily like Team of Teams, by the way!

inactive07:06:47

Correction: it’s not just a thought experiment — this is what healthcare orgs have done to enable teams to communicate needs. Spookily like Team of Teams, by the way!

Mark Goble07:06:43

Have you seen any of the work done in the NHS in this area?

Duncan Lawie07:06:22

Perhaps they are more like soap opera 😄

1
Duncan Lawie07:06:05

I see recurring characters and themes, for sure. And I'm starting to recognise the theme tune

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili07:06:07

Any conference behind the scenes is slapstick comedy

🤕 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili07:06:07

Any conference behind the scenes is slapstick comedy

🤕 1
Jeremy McGee07:06:21

Truth. Did them in the late 1980s when slides were physical. Nothing like having a carousel of slides on the floor ten minutes before a keynote...

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili07:06:25

I think physical slides made it easier to add a slide while the speaker was already speaking. With a PDF, that's harder to do.

Jeremy McGee07:06:38

True - although it did take a few days to get slides fixed if there were errors!

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili07:06:52

Oh I wish it still took days. Would make us mindful about them 😄

inactive07:06:38

There is no kidding amounts of stress getting these videos loaded — I’m still haven’t turned in one for tomorrow, causing @erin (and others) no small amounts of stress over the last week. 😭 😆

👍 2
Tom Coudyzer07:06:39

👋 Agree, a round of applause for all the speakers!

👏 15
Karl Marfitt07:06:03

Brilliant, so excited again today, thanks all presenters!

🎉 1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech07:06:06

Have you guys seen Squads from InVision? Best current agile teams exploration l’ve seen of late

👀 5
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech07:06:06

Have you guys seen Squads from InVision? Best current agile teams exploration l’ve seen of late

👀 5
James Head13:06:21

Duena, do you have a link?

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech15:06:28

LinkedIn messaged you with what-little- l have @U01449X2JNA

Bogdan Babalau-Maghiar07:06:45

@genek101 you were talking about feedback, do you think feedforward can be also useful in operating projects with success?

inactive07:06:11

Huh! Interesting — say more!

inactive07:06:11

Huh! Interesting — say more!

inactive07:06:50

^^^ @U015PPCPNF8

Bogdan Babalau-Maghiar08:06:54

Feedback is analyzing something from the past, see how you can do better, but sometimes we need to look forward and have the end goal in our radar and that's why I wanted to see your perspective.

inactive07:06:15

Hello, @patrick.eltridge and @janet.chapman!

❤️ 1
👍 1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech07:06:16

I think they’re drip feeding it for good reason as huge production value but interviewed Atlassian, AirBnB, obvs all Spotify brains etc.

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK07:06:15

Super excited to have Janet and Patrick represent the Nationwide Building Society journey so far and what’s next 👀

🎉 7
👍 4
👋 2
inactive07:06:52

“we’re experiencing the lowest interest rates in literally the last 3,000 years.” (holy cow)

🤯 5
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK07:06:12

...yeah - don’t hold back on the threat levels, right?!

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)07:06:23

The current shock going through the system is a weird enabling factor in some ways (I work in the travel industry - lots of creative problem solving happening...) I shows how much more lean you probably could be if you're forced :thinking_face:

👍 3
inactive07:06:08

“20 years as an auditor” — I still have my IPPF red book from the Institute of Internal Auditors!

Jeremy McGee07:06:21

@philipp.boeschen650 exactly that in financial services too -- Nationwide (where I work) has brought forward a lot of change we weren't expecting in all kinds of unexpected ways

👍 3
PATRICK ELTRIDGE07:06:15

Yes Philipp, we’ve found the constraints have indeed enabled us to speed up.

👍 6
🙌 1
inactive07:06:26

“16MM members; 1 in 5 of the UK population; 10% of all UK savings is with us”

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations07:06:43

Interesting to hear auditing as gathering information in a short burst of work. Reminds me of incident analysis. @janet.chapman, can you say more about how Agile helped you in your work?

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech08:06:27

Go ahead, name another Chief Internal Auditor in a bank who gets Agile and is called a Mission Leader - l’ll wait 😂

❤️ 8
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech08:06:27

Go ahead, name another Chief Internal Auditor in a bank who gets Agile and is called a Mission Leader - l’ll wait 😂

❤️ 8
Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)08:06:27

what about outside of a bank :thinking_face: ? cant think of anyone either

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]08:06:05

Sally Clarke, ex-Chief Internal Auditor, Barclays

👍 2
💯 1
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:30

@janet.chapman is such a refreshing leader to have in a senior and impactful role here at Nationwide - I enjoy hugely our conversations and the role she plays in serving and enabling 🥰

👍 3
🎉 2
inactive08:06:42

@janet.chapman I was trying to find my IIA IPPF red book to impress you. Although, I have no idea if it’s still red. 🙂

inactive08:06:09

“we’ve been around for 136 years; we have every intention for being around for the next 136 years.”

👍 1
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:22

@jtf - the role of trust and honest ‘Agile Conversations’ (honestly) play a role! Heads-up for @eleanorjtaylor talk later for more detail on Audit story

👍 2
👇 1
Janet Chapman08:06:39

I recommend you listen to @eleanor.taylor later this morning as she led the work adopting Agile in Internal Audit at Nationwide. We worked closely with a coach who had developed adaptations of Agile for non-technology contexts based on scrum,

👍 4
👀 3
👆 1
inactive08:06:21

^^^ If I understand correctly, it was the audit group that blazed the agile trail in the org, using it to improve flow of work within the audit function… which is pretty amazing. Did I get this right, @janet.chapman ?

👍 1
inactive08:06:21

^^^ If I understand correctly, it was the audit group that blazed the agile trail in the org, using it to improve flow of work within the audit function… which is pretty amazing. Did I get this right, @janet.chapman ?

👍 1
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:21

I think we had a range of parallel ‘pioneers’ - the Audit journey, coupled with the Digital journey and Change journey have all played a part in reaching the Mission model and WoW support function we are pivoting to

inactive08:06:58

OMG. That’s… amazing…. 😂 😂 😂 Come on, tell me another one. Next, you’ll tell me that they’re no longer called “work papers?”

😆 1
Janet Chapman08:06:04

We had a lot of things on our side, the scale of our team (100 people), the high degree of co-location and an enthusiastic team willing to experiment and learn.

👍 2
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:33

an enthusiastic team willing to experiment and learn. < that doesn’t happen by accident

👍 8
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:33

an enthusiastic team willing to experiment and learn. < that doesn’t happen by accident

👍 8
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili08:06:57

It does. 0.1% of the time 😄

😆 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili08:06:21

It turns out, 0.1% of teams in organizations with <100 teams is not enough.

👍 1
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:29

Agree 💯 % - the role of Janet as a leader and Ellie and Mark as a Coach were pivotal in creating the environment and experimenting safely

💯 1
Maik Himstedt08:06:52

How do "member missions" relate to product teams? The latter tend to be more stable and "infinite" as long as the prodct thrieves and is in active development.

John Boyes08:06:58

@patrick.eltridge really nice insight about assembling all the people needed for the work in one team for a Member Mission. How long does a mission typically last for? Curious if that means you are not pursuing long-lasting teams.

John Boyes08:06:58

@patrick.eltridge really nice insight about assembling all the people needed for the work in one team for a Member Mission. How long does a mission typically last for? Curious if that means you are not pursuing long-lasting teams.

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:29

Missions are enduring - shift from functional alignment to market alignment in value-streams 👍

👍 1
inactive08:06:39

Last audit joke: From my opening remarks yesterday: Corey Quinn’s tweet is quite funny. It is true, however, that people did cheer when we had auditors from each of the Big Four on stage last year. 🙂

👍 1
❤️ 2
😁 1
Ann Marie Fred - IBM08:06:54

It should have taken 9 months; instead they did it in 4 + 4 + 4 days. What a great story of lightning fast problem solving!

👍 2
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:59

“that took about 4 days” < reminds me of @steve773’s discussion of amazing recovery at Toyota at from a fire at a parts supplier. same message: having people prepared ahead of time, aligned on solving the problem, can give amazing results

❤️ 5
inactive08:06:09

Amazing stories from @patrick.eltridge on how suddenly things are getting done in “four days”, seemingly impossible months ago!

🎉 4
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech08:06:18

“We made the most of the Covid crisis to up the pace” if everyone could say that instead of justify paralysis

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech08:06:18

“We made the most of the Covid crisis to up the pace” if everyone could say that instead of justify paralysis

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili08:06:50

That does tell something about the amount of focused work time pre-covid

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]08:06:25

"Continuous funding of persistent teams" 👍

❤️ 5
Janet Chapman08:06:32

@genek101 that’s what they always say now at Nationwide since the Audit team adopted Agile!

PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:33

@john710 The Missions persist indefinitely. They are definitely long-lived teams.

👍 1
Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:46

“Agile is our means, DevOps is our target” - great quote.

❤️ 5
inactive08:06:03

“answers not being generated by a ‘central team of experts.’” 🙂

😍 1
👍 2
Ciaran Byrne08:06:12

Great message @patrick.eltridge - if you have all the right people in the room, aligned on the most important priority, things are done far faster - and safely - than would otherwise be expected

4
Ann Marie Fred - IBM08:06:27

I have a similar story of lightning fast innovation. On 48 hours’ over-the-weekend notice that a statewide lockdown order was coming, our local school system managed to distribute Chromebooks and (as needed) Wifi access points to every single child in the district, to enable remote learning.

👋 2
❤️ 3
🔥 2
👏 2
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:28

Nice description of the role of leaders, and the attributes of good leaders.

Brian Martin08:06:50

'no fixed mindsets' is critical.

2
Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:51

I am more sceptical. A crisis tends to cut away political crud, no matter the system of organisation. I've seen non 'agile' orgs respond to COVID within the same time frames. I don't honestly think you can use that as an example of systemic cultural change.

1
Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:51

I am more sceptical. A crisis tends to cut away political crud, no matter the system of organisation. I've seen non 'agile' orgs respond to COVID within the same time frames. I don't honestly think you can use that as an example of systemic cultural change.

1
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:21

Agree - and yet does show what is the art of the possible if we focus on achieving clear, prioritised, shared organisational goals - it helps with confidence and safety for the organisation to try to improve systemically

👍 3
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:26

IIRC The Goal and The Phoenix Project both start with a similar insight, that a crisis allows people to do exceptional things in exceptional circumstances.

❤️ 4
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:55

The trick is creating an organization who has that kind of alignment when it isn’t an obvious crisis. I think that’s the role of mission.

👆 3
Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:49

I liked Gene's talk on Steven Spears - no real mention of mission there.

Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)08:06:24

Its fascinating to see how different teams at my organization are recognizing the behaviors they are doing, doing retrospectives, and generating the working agreements/culture to never go back (and also those teams that aren’t)

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:35

Say more @nick.jenkins? I took the mission here as the tool used to create alignment. What am I missing?

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:24

Oh that's what the NationWide guys are saying but I'm not buying it. I've been in similar orgs, described similarly and the actual culture has been truly awful.

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:40

Prob because the mission was lip service.

1
Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]08:06:22

A common observation is that people are at their best in "Chaos" (see Cynefin). Come together, swarm, experiment, solve the issue quickly. Many orgs are asking themselves post COVID how they can keep the positives from that behaviour without the chaos!

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:38

I think alignment is massively difficult to achieve beyond about the arbitrary 150 people limit.

1
Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)08:06:53

never let a good crisis go to waste

👍 4
Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]08:06:33

Missions in this context are long lived value streams

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]08:06:29

The web of meaning. Mission in this context is not a temporal activity.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:36

Prob because the mission was lip service. < undermining trust this way is a good way to undermine alignment.

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:05

@jonathansmart1 how is a long lived value stream manifested? Single, x-functional team, lavishly funded with a product owner?

Jeremy McGee08:06:15

So the missions at Nationwide have purpose and reflect what members need: so, 'homes and dreams' / 'moments that matter' / 'hassle-free money'

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:14

@U016JGYEM0Q that's the kind of mission I detest. Hollow words when you're stuck in an endless bureaucratic process, either inside or outside.

Jeremy McGee08:06:16

each with a small focused central team that feed backlogs in specialist teams elsewhere

Jeremy McGee08:06:56

@nick.jenkins me too! -- the distinction here is a willingness from COO to cut the red tape

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]08:06:00

Nested value streams, taking Dunbar number into account (teams, team of teams, team of team of teams)

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:37

Nest value streams? I have no idea what that means.

Jeremy McGee08:06:39

sometimes we need an executive sponsor to drive this kind of activity, right?

Jeremy McGee08:06:10

as an insider: there were many more similar stories. Mutual trust and understanding were vital. I think it's the same in many other industries

👍 3
inactive08:06:13

Anyone capture those characteristics? “adaptive, growth mindset, instinctive coaches, ???”

❤️ 3
inactive08:06:13

Anyone capture those characteristics? “adaptive, growth mindset, instinctive coaches, ???”

❤️ 3
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:28

I took a note to go back and capture from the recording. 🙂

Brian Martin08:06:01

Servant leadership.

💯 4
PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:08

@nick.jenkins You’re right Nick - I am using the example internally and here to point to how work can get done safely and much faster with the conditions of having everyone around, and focussing on the most important thing. It’s a showcase example to the organisation. It’s far to early to claim systemic cultural change.

👍 6
inactive08:06:21

“Janet built the most scarily efficient audit department I’ve ever worked with in 30 years. Incredibly effective and visible adoption of agile principles.” 😆 😆 😆 😆

🙂 1
Janet Chapman08:06:09

@nick.jenkins We plan to use the experience of pace and agility we have been able to show over the last few weeks to show the organisation that we can do it. The leadership challenge for Patrick, me and the rest of the leadership team is to make sure we turn our experience in the crisis into permanent culture change.

👍 5
Janet Chapman08:06:09

@nick.jenkins We plan to use the experience of pace and agility we have been able to show over the last few weeks to show the organisation that we can do it. The leadership challenge for Patrick, me and the rest of the leadership team is to make sure we turn our experience in the crisis into permanent culture change.

👍 5
Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:32

But how? What's going to change? People can always rise to a challenge, but at what cost? Let's use Steve Spears terminology - what structural changes will you make?

inactive08:06:47

“Senior leaders are responsible for being able to explain why certain decisions are made… can’t lose that as we empower teams.”

8
inactive08:06:47

“Senior leaders are responsible for being able to explain why certain decisions are made… can’t lose that as we empower teams.”

8
Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley (he/him)08:06:29

I'd be very interested in knowing more about how the UK senior manager regime is being addressed

inactive08:06:13

“we are hiring over 1,000 practitioners in London” (!!)

Karl Marfitt08:06:17

A term that I now use regularly but I learned a long time ago while testing at NBS was 'appetite for risk' with regards to financial advisors reviewing pensions and other products with members. Often an overlooked dynamic factor that likely has a broad range between smaller startups and larger enterprises but also between different industries offering different types of products.

Karl Marfitt08:06:17

A term that I now use regularly but I learned a long time ago while testing at NBS was 'appetite for risk' with regards to financial advisors reviewing pensions and other products with members. Often an overlooked dynamic factor that likely has a broad range between smaller startups and larger enterprises but also between different industries offering different types of products.

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:57

We use "risk appetite" to describe US Federal agencies' willingness to migrate workloads to cloud: pioneers vs guardians

Karl Marfitt08:06:02

As a tester I'm also interested in 'appetite for quality' 🙂 Many folks expect it should be non-negotiable but that old adage of a cost/time/quality triangle (pick two!) suggests you can deliver something really fast and cheap but the challenge is also to meet all the (functional and non-functional) quality expectations too...

Stijn Liesenborghs - Engineering Mgr - Nike08:06:34

@genek101 Still missing some of yesterday's great keynote sessions in the github repo.

Stijn Liesenborghs - Engineering Mgr - Nike08:06:34

@genek101 Still missing some of yesterday's great keynote sessions in the github repo.

inactive08:06:22

Ah, I’ll got on this with @UBCR93R34 — stay tuned!!!

🙏 1
Brian Martin08:06:58

Definitely a talk I'll need to go back and re-listen to.

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:13

@janet.chapman - I’m interested in what “Invite over inflict” means in your WoW principles?

👍 2
Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:13

@janet.chapman - I’m interested in what “Invite over inflict” means in your WoW principles?

👍 2
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:54

One of our core WoW Principles - relates to a desire to meet colleagues, teams, leaders “where they are” and improving with them in their context and on their own timescales. @jonathansmart1 introduced this and referenced the ‘diffusion of innovation’ S-curve to support thinking here...

👍 3
thankyou 3
PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:36

@karl.marfitt That’s right Karl, we seek to adapt controls and policies to fit the risk of the experiment in question. This approach depends on a culture of transparency and collaboration to build trust and safety though...

😃 3
❤️ 1
John Boyes08:06:13

> Changed the language (to suit the context) and kept the principles Love it, @janet.chapman 🙌

👍 4
☝️ 2
❤️ 8
John Boyes08:06:13

> Changed the language (to suit the context) and kept the principles Love it, @janet.chapman 🙌

👍 4
☝️ 2
❤️ 8
Richard Vodden08:06:51

@janet.chapman do you have some examples of the kind of language you pivoted to using? Would be really cool to pinch be inspired by some of your ideas.

👍 2
Janet Chapman08:06:46

@kenny It means bringing people to the party because they want to be there and see why there is value for them in being there (Invite). Making Agile something that ‘happened’ to the team, something that was forced on them (Inflict) wasn’t going to be successful.

❤️ 3
🎉 3
thankyou 1
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:08

The Mortgage Payment Holiday journey was a brilliant example of the ways-of-working, practice and the tech capability we have worked hard to introduce and mature

🎉 1
👍 1
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:08

The Mortgage Payment Holiday journey was a brilliant example of the ways-of-working, practice and the tech capability we have worked hard to introduce and mature

🎉 1
👍 1
Jeremy McGee08:06:03

High trust, low overhead.

Jeremy McGee08:06:09

(Bloody good fun too)

inactive08:06:08

“better value, sooner, safer, happier.”

🎉 3
inactive08:06:08

“better value, sooner, safer, happier.”

🎉 3
Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)08:06:43

isnt that the DevOps Enterprise Summit tag line?

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:17

Yup - check back on last year’s London talk from @jonathansmart1 too - great summary of BVSSH

Brian Martin08:06:13

@janet.chapman would be interested to discuss the reframing of terminology to overcome agile vs process with audit. We just got our FedRAMP P-ATO and this was a significant barrier that forced us to make certain decisions and modifications to how we operated.

Brian Martin08:06:13

@janet.chapman would be interested to discuss the reframing of terminology to overcome agile vs process with audit. We just got our FedRAMP P-ATO and this was a significant barrier that forced us to make certain decisions and modifications to how we operated.

Vlad Ukis08:06:13

Would be interested in learning about your journey to getting the FedRAMP @brian.martin

Brian Martin08:06:51

Happy to connect @U016H286F6U

PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:35

@kenny It means that we are not imposing a standard pattern of business agility, centrally designed and rolled out. Rather, we are starting with individual team, talking about the principles, and supporting teams as they figure it out locally, in the work.

👌 3
👍 1
PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:35

@kenny It means that we are not imposing a standard pattern of business agility, centrally designed and rolled out. Rather, we are starting with individual team, talking about the principles, and supporting teams as they figure it out locally, in the work.

👌 3
👍 1
Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:04

> figuring it out in the work

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:15

Such a great way of phrasing it. Thanks!

❤️ 1
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:09

The BVSSH work is honestly so key for us - incredibly fortunate to partner with @jonathansmart1 and a genuinely shameless plug for his upcoming book...just brilliant 👀:star-struck:😎

🙏 1
Peter Fassbinder08:06:21

Can you provide some figure on your deployment frequencies (for non-regulated / regulated cloud / non-cloud parts of your systems) @patrick.eltridge @janet.chapman

Simon Williams08:06:10

Are you going to look at remote teams in conjunction with the office based hires?

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech08:06:14

Really inspiring stuff @patrick.eltridge and @janet.chapman - looking forward to hearing more

❤️ 1
inactive08:06:22

“We are hiring! We are likely the only financial services org that is opening a new building right now.” — @patrick.eltridge If people are interested in these 1,000+ open positions, what should they do? cc @richard.james

❤️ 3
inactive08:06:22

“We are hiring! We are likely the only financial services org that is opening a new building right now.” — @patrick.eltridge If people are interested in these 1,000+ open positions, what should they do? cc @richard.james

❤️ 3
Jeremy McGee08:06:24

@U015VT41H6W has a post over in #hiring

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:40

TFW a COO says "containerization is going to be really important for us" 🤯

❤️ 6
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:40

TFW a COO says "containerization is going to be really important for us" 🤯

❤️ 6
RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:15

Yeah - amen to that - brilliant to have a Board sponsor who ‘gets’ this stuff on both what and how and why!!!

Simon Williams08:06:15

That's interesting Richard - thanks for sharing re: the board sponsor!

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:36

Got to remember that @patrick.eltridge is a technologist - believer in both how we work and what we work with

👍 2
❤️ 1
💙 1
Michael Kalbermatter08:06:09

Loved your story! Thx so much these insights! 😊

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:39

Yay - go Nationwide 🔥🔥🔥

👍 1
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG08:06:44

@janet.chapman & @patrick.eltridge Nice Story!

Brian Martin08:06:44

Did I hear the time's up alert buzzing in the background right at the end?

😁 2
Ciaran Byrne08:06:48

Thank you @patrick.eltridge @janet.chapman 👏👏

Senthil Kumarathevan08:06:52

great talk, exciting times ahead

Bogdan Babalau-Maghiar08:06:41

great insights! thanks for sharing!

Brian Martin08:06:58

Very engaging talk.

inactive08:06:01

(@sam and @patrick.debois256 changing the movie reels in the back of the projection room. 🙂

😄 8
inactive08:06:01

(@sam and @patrick.debois256 changing the movie reels in the back of the projection room. 🙂

😄 8
Fokko Veegens08:06:34

You have a picture of that? 😄

Janet Chapman08:06:13

@brian.martin. We changed terminology to be less of a turn off to our auditors and shaped some of the principles to fit how the works needs to flow in an audit, including levels of review and approval that we needed in place to satisfy regulatory expectations. But what we built was recognisably Agile underneath the words.

❤️ 1
👍 2
inactive08:06:14

Thank you @patrick.eltridge and @janet.chapman — so wonderful!!!

👍 4
👏 5
1
Jen Thomson, IDC, Lead Accelerated App Delivery08:06:41

@patrick.eltridge great insight into the Nationwide story. What's the timeline that you have put around the hiring of the 1000 engineers. when thinking about building the development capabilities will low-code platforms also have a role to play? thanks!

inactive08:06:06

Hello @duncan.lawie and @andrea.hausmann!!

🎉 1
PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:10

@peter.fassbinder It’s highly variable at this early stage. But ultimately, in a mature DevOps culture, with significant controls automation, I’d expect there to be little difference between regulated and non-reg changes. We def have some pockets of regulated change that have release cadences measured in days rather than months.

PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:10

@peter.fassbinder It’s highly variable at this early stage. But ultimately, in a mature DevOps culture, with significant controls automation, I’d expect there to be little difference between regulated and non-reg changes. We def have some pockets of regulated change that have release cadences measured in days rather than months.

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:36

Reasonably it depends more on the tech and team maturity in balancing speed and safety than on whether more/less highly-regulated - there is some brilliant work in-flight to embed Intelligent Control into our CI and Jira tooling to support/accelerate here too

Senthil Kumarathevan08:06:44

very excited to be part of a great team and exceptionally ethically minded organisation. devops / cloud / containerisation is a great space to be in at this time with Nationwide

Chris08:06:45

Thanks nationwide for this interesting talk, underlying the importance of top level management sponsorship to move organizations faster.

Liz Rice08:06:49

@patrick.eltridge @janet.chapman that was super interesting, thank you!

👏 2
PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:30

@jthomson We’ve been hiring for the past 9 months - we have on boarded about 400 great people so far, and still looking. @richard.james - I’m not sure we do much low-code yet - is that right?

PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:30

@jthomson We’ve been hiring for the past 9 months - we have on boarded about 400 great people so far, and still looking. @richard.james - I’m not sure we do much low-code yet - is that right?

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:22

We’ve got a pocket of low-code in the investments space but, no, not (yet at least) a major area for us.

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:57

On engineering - there is a major growth in cloud-native, open-source practitioners for Platform and Stream-aligned teams

Jen Thomson, IDC, Lead Accelerated App Delivery08:06:01

fabulous insight thanks - would love to learn more in terms of the cloud native strategy

Giulio Vian08:06:39

I was wondering how Army and Navy fits with the coopetition/OSS model (Team of Teams and Dr. Spears) They are conflict-focused organisations where cooperation sits at the different level would like to hear your thoughs @genek101

Richard Vodden08:06:00

Now this is an analogy I can relate to 🙂 🍺 🍷

🍷 5
😂 2
inactive08:06:13

“among bar staff, we started arguing about what corkscrew was the best. what really is the value derived from corkscrew? open, pour, deliver, no cork left… this argument less relevant [thru eyes of customer]” 😆

Janet Chapman08:06:15

Thanks to DOES and Gene for inviting us and for all the great comments and questions. This has been fun! (And check out our jobs #hiring)

❤️ 2
thankyou 7
🙌 1
Janet Chapman08:06:15

Thanks to DOES and Gene for inviting us and for all the great comments and questions. This has been fun! (And check out our jobs #hiring)

❤️ 2
thankyou 7
🙌 1
Simon Williams08:06:34

Come back for an update next year? 😄

inactive08:06:31

Thank you so much, Janet — you were so wonderful!

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK08:06:52

We will 110% be back - multi-year journey and emergent every quarter - challenge from @genek101 was for a CEO to talk...well, we’ve had the COO this year and I love a challenge 🥰🥰🥰

👍 2
upvotepartyparrot 1
inactive08:06:42

“I love doing complex mathematic equations by hand; born too late for this job” 😆

😁 5
PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:17

Many thanks to @genek101 for the conference and inviting us. Was a hoot!

thankyou 3
🔥 1
❤️ 1
PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:17

Many thanks to @genek101 for the conference and inviting us. Was a hoot!

thankyou 3
🔥 1
❤️ 1
inactive08:06:13

Thank you so much, Patrick! That was wonderful!! 🙏

brntbeer08:06:02

@patrick.eltridge @janet.chapman very awesome story. so happy to hear about the london expansion!

👍 1
inactive08:06:06

“…and we started having arguments of Tableau, PowerBI… so we did both. and it was fun, comparing the tools; but it delayed shipping of info to customer, and cost too much.” 😂 😂

⬆️ 4
inactive08:06:34

“what happens when you get senior technologists in a room together; more talk about tools, more politics.” 😆

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:20

^^ nodding furiously - too much tools & tactics, not enough visualization & strategy

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:25

“A bit more happiness” - an often unforgotten benefit of DevOps.

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:25

“A bit more happiness” - an often unforgotten benefit of DevOps.

Duncan Lawie08:06:59

And yet so hard to talk about

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:26

Every company does employee satisfaction and forget fundamental things like how people experience work day to day.

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:33

Less ping pong tables, more DevOps 🙂

PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:27

@simonw Definitely factoring in remote working in our hiring - we’ve learned a LOT from the last three months.

👍 1
PATRICK ELTRIDGE08:06:27

@simonw Definitely factoring in remote working in our hiring - we’ve learned a LOT from the last three months.

👍 1
Simon Williams08:06:37

Shameless plug for one of our former team members new org: http://remote.com - a new startup they've founded to help with remote hiring. We can make an intro if you would like cc @U015QKRBZDH

Simon Williams08:06:58

We (GitLab) have been all remote since we started. Happy to chat further about how we make it work (1,300 team members now in 68 countries) and introduce you to our Head of Remote.

Luke08:06:35

“What’s the right way to use Jira” 😐

3
inactive08:06:45

(this is so funny…)

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:53

^ reminds me of early days of CITCON or Devopsdays

Davy Kenis08:06:56

@andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie how did you boil down information/decission from the devops enterprise workgroup towards the lower teams?

Davy Kenis08:06:56

@andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie how did you boil down information/decission from the devops enterprise workgroup towards the lower teams?

Duncan Lawie08:06:56

Measuring, sharing those measures

Duncan Lawie08:06:26

Also targetting teams who were interested or making progress, and getting them to show how they were moving forward

🙌 2
Andrea Hausmann08:06:48

but you know, this is a constant challenge.. still today

Davy Kenis08:06:33

yeah I can imagine, especially in large organizations this might be challenging!

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:19

We need three days of Conway's Law. ConwayCon

😆 6
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:19

We need three days of Conway's Law. ConwayCon

😆 6
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:07

it sounds like a joke… but going into the emergent consequences would actually deserve it.

Tom Ayerst08:06:21

Keynote by @allspaw 😁

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]08:06:11

Team Topologies @matthew @me1208

😀 1
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:46

^^ this was the first ITRev book club IIRC

✔️ 1
Tom Ayerst08:06:17

(@allspaw has some interesting views on Conway’s Law, it would certainly pep things up)

👋 1
Manuel Pais, speaker, co-author Team Topologies08:06:25

That's correct @UDKF6GJ59 🙂 It was a great experience for us as authors

💯 1
Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)08:06:07

… i just think about the potential outcome of these conversations on tools… well none of them actually meet our needs, so lets build our own… 9 months later, we have built a new tool that has some parity, still no value shipped

😂 1
Peter Fassbinder08:06:10

Yep, in my experience processes are always addressed last when moving to DevOps (unfortunately)

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)08:06:41

In follow up to the excellent talk by @patrick.eltridge @janet.chapman cc: @richard.james https://www.nationwide-jobs.co.uk/tech-talent/

👍 4
🔥 1
Nick Lomas08:06:46

@janet.chapman @patrick.eltridge Excellent presentation and thank you for sharing and being so open.

👍 1
Karl Marfitt08:06:03

This talk is really resonating so much with me, I have a couple of unusual (non IT!) tools related stories that definitely shaped my early career before IT. The best thing I can say is that it's a poor worker that blames their tools, especially when very high quality tools are quickly available at very low cost!

👍 4
Karl Marfitt08:06:03

This talk is really resonating so much with me, I have a couple of unusual (non IT!) tools related stories that definitely shaped my early career before IT. The best thing I can say is that it's a poor worker that blames their tools, especially when very high quality tools are quickly available at very low cost!

👍 4
Duncan Lawie08:06:18

True - and we are trying to focus on outcome rather than tools, but the balance between letting all have their own tools and being able to share skills and methods

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:55

Mhm as soon as people identify with the companies mission and vision then putting that success before personal growth becomes more common I think :thinking_face:

Davy Kenis08:06:59

politics politics .... soooo true!

inactive08:06:13

Fascinating insight about how inherently political technology, or tied to ego, choices are.

👍 1
inactive08:06:13

Fascinating insight about how inherently political technology, or tied to ego, choices are.

👍 1
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:08

We had tech sitting in our company for ages because someone was so proud of the deal they stuck and forced everyone to use it 😂

1
1
inactive08:06:41

Oh, you’re going to LOVE the next presentation from @scott.prugh!!! 😆

💯 4
👍 2
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:12

Golfcourse software gives me severe anxiety 😂

Jonathan Evason08:06:23

100% we've had many discussions around tools with phrases like "Ugh tool A is rubbish I prefer tool B", I sometimes think it's a learning curve issue, i.e "I've used tool B for years, why should I have to learn tool A"

👏 2
Chris08:06:36

Is the person using his/her ego to serve the project or the opposite, is usually quite eye opening on intrinsic motivations....

Richard Vodden08:06:55

“We looked at our metrics, and we had either chosen those metrics because they made us look good, or because we had learned how to make ourselves look good by using those metrics” :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

2
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech08:06:57

“The discussion about tools became more and more political” - yup. I’m all about moving away from “culture” and “organisation” talk though and towards the only actionable bit - changing behaviours to increase Psychological Safety at every level- obsess with Impression Management and stopping it in every team

👍 1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech08:06:57

“The discussion about tools became more and more political” - yup. I’m all about moving away from “culture” and “organisation” talk though and towards the only actionable bit - changing behaviours to increase Psychological Safety at every level- obsess with Impression Management and stopping it in every team

👍 1
Philip Day08:06:56

Our pyschological safety is typically great at team level, poor at senior manager level

Tom Ayerst08:06:02

Tech people live in constant fear of their hard earned experience being made irrelevant

😱 2
👍 5
1
💯 2
Tom Ayerst08:06:02

Tech people live in constant fear of their hard earned experience being made irrelevant

😱 2
👍 5
1
💯 2
Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:25

Exactly - and we tie a lot of that “experience” to tools.

✔️ 1
Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:44

When in reality we’ve learned how to use tools (generally) to solve problems.

👍 1
Brian Martin08:06:22

And yet they understand abstraction as a technical concept...

Duncan Lawie08:06:24

I recall when schools started to teach "Excel" rather than "Spreadsheets"

2
Cristea Ghiță08:06:47

so, actually, the ability to solve problems (regardless of used tools) is the added value of an individual

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili08:06:11

Oh, I remember the first change resistance when having to move from a safe VMWare virtualization to this suspicious Hyper-V when changing jobs. Well, it's not that different.

☝️ 1
👍 1
Tom Ayerst08:06:32

Also, constant learning is a thing

❤️ 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili08:06:33

Also, a great ride where instead of replacing with new flashy tools, we just maintained the existing Powershell deployment scripts and got down to releasing at will.

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)08:06:48

Check out this “confession” about the effect of being a SME on on the “old” tools (start about 2:00 in): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocWc6blSj4A

👍 2
Akis Sklavounakis08:06:48

It is easy to install cool tools and a cool toolchain, and announce that you are 'doing agile' or you 'have DevOps' now.

1
Akis Sklavounakis08:06:48

It is easy to install cool tools and a cool toolchain, and announce that you are 'doing agile' or you 'have DevOps' now.

1
Richard Herrett08:06:40

How many times have I heard this... the real horror is when the leadership do this, fold their arms and STOP as they are now DONE 😡

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:07

The context setting power of "Accelerate" has been so important in our org too. We've handed out 6 cases to senior leadership to establish a common language.

🙌 8
👍 8
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:07

The context setting power of "Accelerate" has been so important in our org too. We've handed out 6 cases to senior leadership to establish a common language.

🙌 8
👍 8
Craig Cook - IBM08:06:39

How did you encourage them to actually read it?

👍 1
Brian Martin08:06:37

Fomo. Just talk about it enough.:rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

😁 1
Simon Williams08:06:13

Boil it down to the key 4 metrics to start with?

Duncan Lawie08:06:35

I gave a reading guide, starting with the metrics chapter and then a bit of "choose your own adventure" as to which bits to read next

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:58

I put a flyer in it with why they should read and and information about the DevOps Dojo. Then I followed up to see which copies had dust on them. Our COO's copy is worn and has tones of book marks, so she get as much help as we can give her.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:14

If you read it, you're our closest friend. 🙂

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:24

We also built a DORA dashboard and said, "these are the metrics" If they want different metrics, they can just build their own. Control the information and you control the narrative. Don't be evil.

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG08:06:09

@duncan.lawie Great use of the Accelerate metrics. @nicolefv Research is a fantastic set of work.

👍 2
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG08:06:09

@duncan.lawie Great use of the Accelerate metrics. @nicolefv Research is a fantastic set of work.

👍 2
Duncan Lawie08:06:38

It really has helped - but we also need to provide enough supporting measures so people can see the steps along the way

Tom Ayerst08:06:53

We need a #BVSSH bingo score 😄

😂 2
Giulio Vian08:06:07

in my organisation I see huge differences between groups and locations some are top notch, others laggards the latter typically own what is perceived more business-critical set of applications

Giulio Vian08:06:07

in my organisation I see huge differences between groups and locations some are top notch, others laggards the latter typically own what is perceived more business-critical set of applications

Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:16

I also see DevOps lag with teams supporting large, mission critical, monolithic applications.

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG08:06:09

The 24 capabilities in Accelerate are a great baseline to align teams and leaders on.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:11

The link to the metrics chapter in Safari is part of our core learning path.

inactive08:06:19

BVSSH++. (Although, now that I’m a Clojure person, it’s:

(inc bvssh)

2
inactive08:06:19

BVSSH++. (Although, now that I’m a Clojure person, it’s:

(inc bvssh)

2
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili08:06:49

My company (Siili Solutions) has a lot of Clojure people and combined with the Love Letter to Clojure from @genek almost had me spend some time learning Clojure. However, the parenthesis triggered a PTSD (PostTraumatic Scheme Disorder)

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili08:06:34

Where I do think Lisp can be awesome, it has too much "syntactic vinegar"

Ann Marie Fred - IBM08:06:37

“Make sure people are on a trajectory of improvement rather than making unreasonable comparisons between organizations.” < This is one theme in our talk later today as well.

René Lippert08:06:38

@duncan.lawie Do you use OKRs to define true north for the Organization?

René Lippert08:06:38

@duncan.lawie Do you use OKRs to define true north for the Organization?

Duncan Lawie08:06:44

We don't use them well enough yet

thankyou 2
Duncan Lawie08:06:35

Or they seem more targets to aspire to

Davy Kenis08:06:51

we should do a poll in this slack channel, how devops are you?? Love the question!!

Davy Kenis08:06:51

we should do a poll in this slack channel, how devops are you?? Love the question!!

inactive08:06:40

Plenty. 😆

Akis Sklavounakis08:06:47

You'd be surprised on how many companies are actually measuring their agility as a percentage...45% last month, 55% this month...

1
🤯 1
1
😔 1
Preston Gibbs - DevOps Dojo Sensei - Walmart08:06:03

if they are just looking at metrics in a view of months they already falling behide.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:56

“the easiest way to learn what a person thinks is to ask them” < +1000

upvotepartyparrot 7
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:56

“the easiest way to learn what a person thinks is to ask them” < +1000

upvotepartyparrot 7
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:39

though to be fair it is even easier to guess and then just assume you’re right… 🙂

Tom Coudyzer08:06:57

I discovered "The power of the questions mark" via Agile Conversations 🙏 🙌 Pratical example: dropped a mail this morning to our CEO/CTO, containing only questions... just need to ensure they understand it's to understand better, because there could be expectation that only answers should be given to them,

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:52

sounds like you have an opportunity to be transparent on why you’re being curious. 🙂

Tom Coudyzer09:06:39

When typing the above, realised I missed that transparency part and assumed that would be clear without mentioning, now I "feared" my purpose was not clear... guess a small follow-up mail will be send out soon 😉 Thanks for helping me crawling up after hitting the ground again 😉

👍 1
😄 1
Senthil Kumarathevan08:06:57

awesome, "more devops on a friday" 😂

inactive08:06:15

“A leader of a 1,000 person org said, ‘I don’t need surveys; I already know what my employees think.’” 😆

4
😱 1
8
🙃 4
😃 4
inactive08:06:15

“A leader of a 1,000 person org said, ‘I don’t need surveys; I already know what my employees think.’” 😆

4
😱 1
8
🙃 4
😃 4
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech08:06:33

we hear “we already asked them something last year” every day

2
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:28

Yes, common toolchain! So important for training amd metrics observability

👍 2
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:28

Yes, common toolchain! So important for training amd metrics observability

👍 2
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:35

Also on top it reduces friction between teams, if you have a common stack, helping other people with their bugs gets A LOT easier

Giulio Vian08:06:36

it is a piece of the puzzle we have this BUT some tools do not integrate (and we are adding an integration tool to the mix for this purpose)

Gareth Septhon08:06:36

Yesterday I spoke a bit about how we're approaching this at William Hill too, so its good to here we're not alone in this approach

Duncan Lawie08:06:23

Yes - our toolchain is Inner Source, to enable more integration - extension to additional languages, for example

Bertalan Voros08:06:38

This also brings you back to having to chose the tools for your tool chain.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:40

Ours too is extensible by the teams.

Giulio Vian08:06:21

we offer a bit of choice they can use Jenkins or Azure DevOps for CI

Giulio Vian08:06:03

but I see a huge difference in teams' maturity regardless of toolset in use

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:36

We offer flexibility as long as: we get pipeline metrics, security and compliance gates, and capitalization data.

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:47

We also made a few core choice and then left things like CI pipelines deliberately as a suggestion - we offer a central option but are not forcing people into it

Simon Williams08:06:48

@U015LV0MPUN do you have a maturity model for the teams?

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)08:06:53

Tools are 10% of the problem though. 🙂

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:09

But we created APIs so people can integrate their CI pipelines into our reporting metrics

💯 1
Giulio Vian08:06:52

@U015S3YCTNH we have a questionnaire that teams have to fill in periodically we are just beginning pulling out data from tools at the enterprise level

👍 1
Simon Williams08:06:57

Would love to hear more about how you are getting data from the tools to support it @U015LV0MPUN

Giulio Vian08:06:32

long story our major issue is that backlog and bug are in Rally which has no simple integration with Azure DevOps where we have source code so we are adding an integration tool like ConnectAll, OpsHub, or TaskTop to sync data and start getting an end2end picture

Simon Williams09:06:47

cc @kenny @U0161SKG9C4

👍 1
inactive08:06:27

“money doesn’t grow on trees, not even at banks; and nor do resources. in game theory terms, goal is to maximize benefit for most people, not for one person”

2
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:37

With central toolchains this vital, are central teams operating and caring for them as products equally vital?

👆 2
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:37

With central toolchains this vital, are central teams operating and caring for them as products equally vital?

👆 2
Duncan Lawie08:06:24

Challenge is ending up "infrastructure"

💯 1
Duncan Lawie08:06:50

ie "that part of the built environment that is only noticed when it stops working" (Paul Graham Raven)

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:39

40,000 users of their common toolchain. WOW.

🎉 2
inactive08:06:21

“35% of our funding ensures that we be customer-focused; we user inner-sourcing; anyone can put their extentions into toolchain, as long as they don’t break things.”

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:30

"common toolchain" != "enterprise ci/cd"

👆 4
Craig Cook - IBM08:06:13

IBM has company wide toolchains as well. Make it easy for teams to adopt. Also give them the option to choose something different.

Craig Cook - IBM08:06:13

IBM has company wide toolchains as well. Make it easy for teams to adopt. Also give them the option to choose something different.

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:56

@andrea.hausmann - You used the word “grow” when suggesting teams can add what they want to the toolchain in order to “grow” better. What does grow mean in that context?

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:56

@andrea.hausmann - You used the word “grow” when suggesting teams can add what they want to the toolchain in order to “grow” better. What does grow mean in that context?

Andrea Hausmann08:06:43

Improve the toolchain that it really helps them for their own need --> this should help them progress or work as good as possible wherever that is within their own business.

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:34

Gotcha - I like it. Not just develop software, grow in their own business. Thanks!

inactive08:06:04

“practitioner to practitioner to share expertise across; org; and communities of practice to broaden their understanding of what other people do; earlier in career, we encourage broadening understanding of what other people do.”

❤️ 3
Teri Patrick08:06:31

Re: politics: This is a great book for understanding the impact of politics on innovation. It's written by a physicist turned business leader - who brings a physicist pov to understanding organizational culture. https://www.amazon.com/Loonshots-Nurture-Diseases-Transform-Industries/dp/1250185963

John Boyes08:06:50

@duncan.lawie good point that the lead time for changes metric is easier to measure in teams who already have a fairly streamlined deployment pipeline. That’s one thing I love about the 4 key Accelerate metrics: they encourage the right behaviour (moving to a more streamlined pipeline in this case), unlike most metrics . .

👏 3
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:50

The purpose of IT is almost always supporting something, if we're building IT to build IT systems rethink :thinking_face:

👍 1
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:50

The purpose of IT is almost always supporting something, if we're building IT to build IT systems rethink :thinking_face:

👍 1
Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx08:06:29

The opposite is not good - the shoeless cobblers’ children is so common

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx08:06:49

Amazing tech for customers but internally things strung together with sticking plasters

Jonathan Evason08:06:09

COP for the win!

Marcello Marrocos08:06:19

People are the most challenge of the three pillars for DevOps. Tools you learn, you experiment. The process you implement, define, refine. But people have a lot of background, believes and culture that is a challenge to change.

👍 2
1
Marcello Marrocos08:06:19

People are the most challenge of the three pillars for DevOps. Tools you learn, you experiment. The process you implement, define, refine. But people have a lot of background, believes and culture that is a challenge to change.

👍 2
1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:37

The same thing can work with people! You can experiment with your conversations and end up changing the culture. Normally though people aren’t aware of the need to improve their conversations. They assume that a better culture means other people behave differently.

Bogdan Babalau-Maghiar08:06:51

But I think people can also bring a lot of value in the equation.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:06:57

Oh I agree! I think people is actually the point of highest leverage. It is a shame then that people don’t study people skills in the same way that they study tools and process. (Disclosure: I’m one of the co-authors of Agile Conversations and this is a big topic of me!)

👍 3
Bogdan Babalau-Maghiar09:06:11

I'm new in DevOps world, but I see how important is Agile, so I would say that you hit the right subject with the book. I'll look after it.

👍 1
Marcello Marrocos08:06:02

@jtf this way of thinking hadn't come to my mind before, but suddenly it feels natural. I tend to try to adapt my way of communicating with others to try to get to a common ground and understanding.

👍 1
Marcello Marrocos08:06:04

Thanks for sharing about the book, sounds very interesting. Is there a PNL root on the ideas? I'll sure read (well, probably listen to) it!

Marcello Marrocos08:06:06

Oh, sorry! I meant NPL, Neuro-linguistic programming. PNL is in Portuguese! My bad, it might be waking up early for couple of days and brain not fully shifted to English! lol

😆 1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:51

Not connected to NPL as far as I know. Though from what I’ve seen lots of communication approaches share the fundamental insight that you need to actually pay attention to what the other person is saying. 🙂

👍 1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech08:06:39

”as a plus it helps them to improve their empathy” yes! Growing empathy should be a huge effort in the People Practice we all should toil on

Benoit Bourdin08:06:15

@cncook001 right, sounds to me some difficult balance to manage a such big toolchain and flexibility to the users so they can get quickly new features and/or new tools on demand

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:16

I'm sorry. I'm going to sound like the black hat yet, but does no one else have a problem with a centralised tool chain? What happened to let the practitioners choose their own tools?

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)08:06:16

I'm sorry. I'm going to sound like the black hat yet, but does no one else have a problem with a centralised tool chain? What happened to let the practitioners choose their own tools?

Simon Williams08:06:51

Global inefficiencies and visibility?

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx08:06:57

Accelerate has a good paragraph on this - let me see if I can find it

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG08:06:16

Its a balance. Let teams choose their tools, but not all tools.

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]08:06:38

Some choice, not no choice and not the wild west

👍 3
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG08:06:39

Push multiple stakeholders to create synergies

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)08:06:03

it’s also about the dynamics that get created among the teams. Team Topologies talks a lot about that.

Duncan Lawie08:06:04

For us, many are happy to accept the tools given. The "top performers" are free to integrate

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)08:06:43

Yeah we also see that the bulk of teans just want something working - teans who really want to control it themselves are much rarer

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]08:06:57

And good point earlier that any centrally provided toolchains should invite usage, due to adding value

💯 2
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG08:06:59

This matters because cross organizational context understanding and reuse gives you lots of scale. Also make sure that centralized toolchains are self service

👍 5
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)08:06:25

@scott.prugh YES to the self-service

Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)08:06:36

this reminds me of themes that Dan Cundiff talks about in the 2018 Vegas talk on Crowdsourcing Technology governance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XYIs-6ZMjk specifically Dan’s section

Li Zhu09:06:03

I consider the life cycle of in-house toolchain a Shu-Ha-Ri journey for in-house users.

💥 2
Matt Cobby (NAB)09:06:56

I don't have a problem with centralised tools, assuming that they are easy to use. Centralised platforms can provide a degree of economy and efficiencies but only if they meet the user needs. There is a lot to get get right and IMHO the most important is funding. get the funding model wrong then you will have a terrible platform. In terms of security, it's the deployment pipeline that is the risk, not the rest of the tooling. A centralised set of tools will give you much better visibility of what is going BUT and it's a very large BUT, devs will eb better if they choose their own tools. How to resolve the paradox? Have a few tools as "enterprise" (Source code, Artifacts, Knowledge, Work tracking) and then have default recommendations for each tooling capability. Let the devs chose and the best ones will grow, when they get to a certain size, then can be considered central. It's all balance, the yin and yang. Let 600 teams pick every tool of their own and it's going to be an expensive bill to maintain.

Matt Cobby (NAB)09:06:17

We have been using Inner Source as a method to allow teams submit their own changes

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:42

100%. At Barclays we had the concept of “cranes” and “spanners”

👍 1
Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:56

Workmen don’t bring their own cranes to the building site

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)09:06:00

Given the pace of change in tools and languages I can't see how any one can advocate for one tool set with a straight face. Thank you @UKXEU88QN for the references. I'm with Nicole on this.

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)09:06:51

And definition of cranes and spanners in a dev chain ?

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:42

It depends :) As little as you can get away with to achieve your goals!

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)09:06:21

@U016879K6L9 not necessarily expensive. If you have SaaS tool chains, open source etc. If everything becomes an enterprise licence then yes you are going to struggle to manage multiple licences better than your vendors.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:23

As an example - we were (when I left) getting to the stage where we did want common metrics about lead time - but it was OK to use whatever tool you wanted as long as things were published.

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)09:06:43

yeah, so don't mandate a tool - mandate a principle. like visible work.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:06

So as long as the tool publishes specific metrics, that’s ok

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:26

Certain things like SonarQube we really did mandate across the board

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)09:06:46

And some things you don't want to build yourself. Fair enough. But even a single choice there could lead to tunnel vision.

Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)09:06:08

I am a big believer that you have to treat the “recommended” tools like a product. Assume your customers (the engineers) have a choice. Understand why they are choosing different and make the “recommended” tool the easy and obvious choice. As leaders, we can never mandate as it will create resentment. Leaders need to also know when to evolve what is recommended.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:26

The nirvana is the Amazon-like one: give people balanced outcome metrics (better value sooner safer happier for example) and let them decide how to hit their KPIs/OKRs/etc.

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)09:06:44

Also with centralised tools you tend to get centralised teams - to control/support the tool - and you have a bottleneck in your process again.

👍 3
Simon Williams09:06:40

cc @kenny @U0161SKG9C4

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:43

Have a minimum viable tool platform. Another example is open source scanning - you probably don’t want to pay for 20 different licenses and let one team get BlackDuck, another WhiteSource and yet another Sonatype

1
Matt Cobby (NAB)09:06:07

@nick.jenkins not always. I built the first version of the enterprise tool chain for the bank and I worked very hard to make it all self service. Didn’t get to all of the capabilities but enough to get access and to get moving. Treat it as a product then let users self service. I will acknowledge that in many companies it’s jobs forever for tool admins

Matt Cobby (NAB)09:06:50

If you let everyone store their source code where ever they want, you are taking a huge risk on your years of investment

✔️ 1
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:57

The trick is making the first 60% want to move, the rest will more easily follow after that - making people want to move takes excactly the mentioned product view of your platform/service to make it attractive and solve the right problems 🙂

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:31

If the teams within their own autonomy choose to go to the central chain - then you're winning, that takes a lot of product effort though

Matt Cobby (NAB)09:06:53

I’ve been brewing a blog post on this for a while, time to write? I learnt a lot on the journey from running tools on virtual box to an outsourced data centre to taking the first material workload to cloud for a bank in Australia.

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)10:06:07

@U016879K6L9 a model we've used for source is to let people have their own (secure) repos and then replicate to a central copy, with git centric repos it's easy. And it still gives the teams autonomy and speed. Nothing is insoluble.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx10:06:57

(And in Barclays we had that, plus SVN, plus Visual Source Safe...)

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx10:06:51

There’s nearly always a minimum viable <something> you need to mandate. The trick is to get it as minimal as possible.

Li Zhu10:06:03

Tool variation, different forms to provide, alignment vs autonomy, it is a highly context-based choice.

💯 1
Li Zhu10:06:55

I remember in Project to Product, this issue is mentioned, the author thinks the more important to think about is how you can keep the information distributed in those tools connected as value stream map.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx10:06:59

Yes, that’s specifically around work management tooling - where @UB2E7PNE5’s company provides Tasktop Hub for connecting tooling and Viz for extracting valuable metrics from those tools.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx10:06:36

And that’s a small subset of the whole dev/ops concept-to-cash tooling space

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx10:06:29

Connections are also important in the rest of the dev/ops tooling space too - but they’re more and different connections than the VSM-related ones.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx10:06:07

(E.g. connections between the CMDB and code quality tooling to enable ecosystem roll up & dice & slice of metrics)

Steve Challis10:06:17

There is a management overhead to any tool chain. Why would you want that multiple times? What value does it bring? Focus the teams on creating your own IP

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)10:06:27

To use the cranes and hammers analogy - try telling the next plumber that comes to your house he has to use your spanners.

😀 2
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)10:06:35

But on a similar axis you could imagine it being the question of should all the plumbers from the same company have different tools? :thinking_face:

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)10:06:06

But I don't know enough about plumbing to be of much use in that discussions to be fair 😄

Steve Challis10:06:02

The difference is that in that analogy you would be asking every household to have their own tool chain. I don’t think any case the analogy works that well.

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)10:06:32

yeah the more I think about it the more confusing it gets 🤷

Steve Challis10:06:22

I think the way the “central tooling/toolchain” is managed is as important as the tools themselves. In many cases the toolchain is managed in a “waterfall” way without the required feedback loops and experimentation.

Li Zhu10:06:05

As a provider of in-house toolchain, I consider the centralized tool chain to meet needs of part of the in-house users. Never consider it to be the only choice or standard. You are lucky to have those keep using it, but just be happy when they leave yours to find more proper ones for their own needs.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx10:06:36

Related question: do you all have a standardised ops/service management tool chain - e.g. ServiceNow? How much of that is federated / up to the teams?

Kenny Johnston - Gitlab08:06:44

Core vs Context - in Engineer focused hiring. Love it!

Jonathan Evason08:06:42

@duncan.lawie How does credit Suisse organise COP in the time of Covid? I am assuming that the teams are remote.

Jonathan Evason08:06:42

@duncan.lawie How does credit Suisse organise COP in the time of Covid? I am assuming that the teams are remote.

Duncan Lawie08:06:18

Many of our teams are cross-region or cross-site. We are setting up sessions in "America-friendly" and "APAC- friendly" sessions

Jonathan Evason08:06:47

Is that to meet a timezone constraint?

Duncan Lawie08:06:51

And the well established "site-based" CoPs are still meeting, as they have the personal relationships in place to keep working

Duncan Lawie08:06:19

Yes, timezone, rather than location

Duncan Lawie08:06:36

So London and Zurich can pick, whilst Singapore and NY have something that works for thme

Duncan Lawie08:06:55

We've also tried "virtual open space" - kinda works

Jonathan Evason08:06:07

Oh okay. It's something we were doing but it lost interest. Have you got any tips on making it an inviting space?

Duncan Lawie08:06:15

Work in Progress - using the results of Satisfaction Survey to find topics and presenters

Duncan Lawie08:06:35

Also working on getting clearer senior sponsorship

Duncan Lawie08:06:58

Seems to work better in areas with more early career people

John Booth08:06:11

Fantastic to hear this, my superiors are still convinced that context is everything, engineering is the easy bit that can be outsourced

😱 1
inactive08:06:48

@andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie congrats on getting that amazing testimonial from someone who matters!!!

👍 3
Dmitry Luchnik /// adidas Data Analytics architect08:06:53

Fantastic! Hiring engineers with no obstacles - that's sounds like a miracle

Thomas Williams08:06:00

Wow, really good!

😄 1
Tom Ayerst08:06:07

👏:skin-tone-5:

Cristea Ghiță08:06:32

guys, sorry if it's a dumb question... but what is COP?

👀 1
Cristea Ghiță08:06:32

guys, sorry if it's a dumb question... but what is COP?

👀 1
John Booth08:06:18

was my first thought too Community of Practice

Cristea Ghiță08:06:19

cool, thanks a lot!

John Booth08:06:35

Chapter in Spotify speak

👍 1
Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx08:06:59

Not quite Chapter - “spotify model” Chapter is formalised, CoP is less formal and “law of two feet” (i.e. you can choose to leave)

Cristea Ghiță08:06:04

:thinking_face: very, very interesting!

Akis Sklavounakis08:06:10

Guild in Spotify speak

👍 3
Kurt A09:06:52

Or it can be a "Common Operating Platform" 🙂

Matt Cobby (NAB)09:06:16

We use the terms slightly differently. Guild is something you belong to based on your skills. Community of Practice is open to anyone who has an interest in the topic. Guilds are focused on improving skills and improving the life of their members. Communities are very organic and a shared experience.

👍 1
Matt Cobby (NAB)09:06:10

e,g. a DevOps CoP is a community of people who want to deliver software better. Not a meeting of people with DevOps in their title.

👍 1
Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:19

Context is key! All these types structures might be useful :)

Duncan Lawie09:06:38

Worth looking at http://jarche.com/pkm/ for how it fits with other elements

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:10

(and avoid copying + pasting the “spotify model” which even spotify don’t use) https://youtu.be/cwbiSCgiZNA

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:34

CoPs are (ideally) for actual practitioners to learn from each other

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:57

Whereas CoIs are for newbs too or for those who just want to watch rather than participate

Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:39

Great question @U016N7YLG3S

Matt Cobby (NAB)09:06:37

I hadn't used the CoP/CoI before. We have broadcast events (talks, slides, demos) that are often more CoI in this context. I then use Workshops, Deep Dives, Lean Coffees for peer to peer learning

Siva Sethu08:06:35

WoW. Nice presentation & Articulation

Tom Coudyzer08:06:44

@andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie Thank you so much for this amazing presentation, resonated amazingly! 👋

👏 4
🙏 1
😃 1
👍 1
Matthew Joyner08:06:51

👏 Thanks for sharing!

👍 1
Bogdan Babalau-Maghiar08:06:56

I liked the question about how you discuss about happiness in organization @duncan.lawie!

Jonathan Evason08:06:10

Loved this one. 👏

😀 1
😄 1
Johan Tegler08:06:19

@andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie good presentation! Core vs context is important. How do you define engineer when hiring (easier hiring compared to others)?

Johan Tegler08:06:19

@andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie good presentation! Core vs context is important. How do you define engineer when hiring (easier hiring compared to others)?

Andrea Hausmann08:06:09

yes exactly. So we built in obstacles to overcome if you are not hiring an engineer. ore approvals, more reasoning, etc.

Johan Tegler10:06:50

Yes I like that idea! But how do you define an engineer? It can be narrow lika one with a master in computer science or wide like any engineering degree etc.

inactive08:06:34

Hello @scott.prugh!!!!

👏 5
sarathkanduri08:06:40

@duncan.lawie @andrea.hausmann Thanks for this great presenetation

😀 1
😃 1
sarathkanduri08:06:40

@duncan.lawie @andrea.hausmann Thanks for this great presenetation

😀 1
😃 1
sarathkanduri08:06:06

Can you share some more thoughts on how you have started to measure the DevOps transformation and how you set the priorties

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)08:06:45

Thank you @andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie!

2
👍 3
😀 1
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his08:06:30

Hello to all the CSG folks attending!

😀 1
🙂 3
Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)08:06:43

be a good person, shape a better world

👍 11
Chris08:06:08

Vielen Dank @andrea.hausmann and @duncan.lawie for this talk which resonated with some similarities here...

👍 6
Yasmin Sajid08:06:54

Good presentation - thanks @andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie

Maik Himstedt08:06:01

What is TPS?

👍 1
Maik Himstedt08:06:01

What is TPS?

👍 1
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG08:06:12

It represents the consumption of our APIS from front end applications

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)08:06:19

@scott.prugh i love the focus on the business-oriented metrics, supported by the IT-oriented metrics.

👍 6
inactive08:06:31

PS: I am endlessly fascinated that despite being SVP of Software Engineering, @scott.prugh still self-identifies as primarily an architect. (which given my fascinating with structure/dynamics, maybe it’s not a surprise that leaders need a strong architecture skills.)

5
👍 7
Maria Lopatova08:06:05

@andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie - Amazing presentation..Thank you:clap:

👍 2
Vani Satish08:06:18

Great presentation - thanks @andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie for the insights

👍 1
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)08:06:57

Great set of focusing questions for “legacy” systems

inactive09:06:00

What a graph — 33% in customer growth; but # of transactions increased by 800%. “We could not increase our costs by 800%, and thus the story of how we broke that curve.”

👍 2
Tom Ayerst09:06:22

Hostile Vendors - SO TRUE!!!!

😱 1
😠 1
Tom Ayerst09:06:22

Hostile Vendors - SO TRUE!!!!

😱 1
😠 1
Cristea Ghiță09:06:21

in what way? could you please share some more thoughts on this?

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]09:06:01

@scott.prugh interested to know more about this?

Simon Williams09:06:12

Context of the presentation: ones where you spend more time in audit and compliance with them vs. using them for engineering; and 500% price rises come renewal

😔 1
1
Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]09:06:03

Large monolithic database vendor default sales strategy? 😉

1
Tom Ayerst09:06:22

Contractual constraints on architecture

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:33

Also watch for PE firms acquiring tools and middleware

👍 1
😱 1
Thomas Williams09:06:16

Honor the past, inspire the future.

Brian Martin09:06:17

'great engineering companies allocate time for modernization'!

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:34

I feel so young... goes off and googles SLBOS ....

2
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:34

I feel so young... goes off and googles SLBOS ....

2
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:16

SLBOS is the name of our API platform

Craig Cook - IBM09:06:44

@duncan.lawie Have you seen this? https://engineering.atspotify.com/2014/09/16/squad-health-check-model/ We use it quarterly to checkin with squads.

👍 1
inactive09:06:34

I love love love this story from @scott.prugh

👍 1
Marcello Marrocos09:06:58

@andrea.hausmann @duncan.lawie That was an excellent presentation, congratulations. The point where you mentioned the importance of finding common ground, for instance, the metrics of Accelerate, really resonates. It makes totally sense!

😃 1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech09:06:00

met @scott.prugh yesterday and he has awesome “been there” wisdom

Kurt A09:06:00

Am I seeing An Elegant Puzzle by Will Larson in @scott.prugh’s background?

Kurt A09:06:00

Am I seeing An Elegant Puzzle by Will Larson in @scott.prugh’s background?

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:10

Funny. I just read Will's book 2 weeks ago. I have been meaning to reach out to him as we share some of the same thoughts.

Erica Morrison09:06:12

It's actually a plaque for our SLBOS port. However...several leaders at CSG, including Scott and me, are currently reading that

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:27

@U016775UDH7 You will see more details about the plaque comming up

Simon Williams09:06:38

"Golf course software" 😂

2
😢 1
Thomas Williams09:06:39

Golf Course Software 😂

inactive09:06:52

“Golf course software; software selected higher up in the org, and then inflicted on the teams. Look how happy the CIO and salesperson is!” 😆

10
👍 2
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:52

so, "designing work so that problems can be seen (@steve773)" before hurtling down Microservices Avenue...

Cristea Ghiță09:06:05

"don't do this to your people" - loved it ❤️

Tom Ayerst09:06:11

“Don’t do this to your people, let them pick their own tools” 👍:skin-tone-5:

❤️ 2
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:18

I've heard of Golf Course Features before... I guess it can be an entire system too

inactive09:06:37

I love how @scott.prugh says “low TPS density.” Which I think is polite for “runs like a pig.” 😆

😁 1
7
😂 2
Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:00

OMG Golf Course Software. YES. How many developers have groaned under the pain of using tools that “don’t require much development”. Great, instead we have to become SMEs in configuring some arcane tool.

😂 2
Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:00

OMG Golf Course Software. YES. How many developers have groaned under the pain of using tools that “don’t require much development”. Great, instead we have to become SMEs in configuring some arcane tool.

😂 2
Jonathan Evason09:06:34

My first job was just like this. A small org where I was the only dev. The deputy MD would stealth choose all tech and expect it to get implemented the following day.

Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:00

I was a Maximo developer for a while. I had to learn how to specify UIs entirely in XML… and all database changes had to be specified as a change script. WHY???

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:04

^^ "Polite" is title case, Gene.

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems09:06:24

If all of our products are built on the same golf course software as the underlying database, what would some first steps I can take as an engineer to help us get off of that software?

👀 1
Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems09:06:24

If all of our products are built on the same golf course software as the underlying database, what would some first steps I can take as an engineer to help us get off of that software?

👀 1
inactive09:06:00

cc @scott.prugh

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems09:06:07

@scott.prugh You might've missed this with all the other excitement in the channel.

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG11:06:44

If the middleware(A) is the target pick a good opensource alternative(B). Pick a transaction. Test it. Record results. Port the code. Test that new one. Now figure out how to deploy. This is where you need some way to switch from A to B. For that, I recommend a software router. You can write one and deploy it in front of the old middleware. Have the middleware switch from A to B for a subset of trans and further validate fidelity.

👍 1
Tom Ayerst09:06:30

“Go-dark modernizations” great label!

John Boyes09:06:55

Strangler Pattern FTW, @scott.prugh :thumbsup:

😀 1
1
Brian Martin09:06:17

Wow! What a chart.

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:23

@jonathansmart1 Look for hostile vendors swooping in to buy testing tools that enterprises have built all their test strategies on and then outsourced!!

👍 4
🤯 3
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:23

@jonathansmart1 Look for hostile vendors swooping in to buy testing tools that enterprises have built all their test strategies on and then outsourced!!

👍 4
🤯 3
inactive09:06:50

cc @UB2E7PNE5 😆

Sandeep Joshi09:06:09

It’s the trend in the name of cost optimisation 🙂

Preston Gibbs - DevOps Dojo Sensei - Walmart09:06:45

100% what has been happening with testing for years.

Kurt A09:06:46

"hostile vendor driving our costs up" - who would think of such a thing? 😕

Kurt A09:06:46

"hostile vendor driving our costs up" - who would think of such a thing? 😕

Preston Gibbs - DevOps Dojo Sensei - Walmart09:06:03

They do it so they can buy a bigger boat. ha ha

Davy Kenis09:06:00

like the traps which are mentioned. I do experienced some another trap I would like to share: Technology invention trap: fancy cool super modernized technology but no idea how we can use it or how the organisation benefits from it

👍 2
inactive09:06:50

“two orders of magnitude reduction in $/transaction.” Amazing!

🎉 3
Kurt A09:06:52

wow - nice stats

Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)09:06:13

@scott.prugh did you expect the legacy systems to change and pick up the new api/event layer or did you shim that data into the existing message bus/integration patterns?

inactive09:06:14

“5+ year journey.” What a commitment!!!

😀 1
inactive09:06:14

“5+ year journey.” What a commitment!!!

😀 1
Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:27

It’s what we’ve committed to here as well here at Saxo. If you’ve got a sizeable legacy, and you’re not prepared to stop the world to modernise, 5+ years is what it takes.

Brian Martin09:06:36

Love that quote.

Yasmin Sajid09:06:47

great quote ...

inactive09:06:54

“it’s not too late to start.”

Li Zhu09:06:08

Wouldn't say the vendors are hostile, it's just their business model. Either you change their mind and bring them on-aboard, or hire more employees of your own.

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]09:06:09

Love that tree planting quote.

💯 4
❤️ 1
Cristea Ghiță09:06:26

"The Gardening Chanel with James Prigioni" quote about the best time to plant a tree <3

inactive09:06:11

OMG. This is true. That scene in Unicorn Project came straight out of a story from @scott.prugh!!! And I had no idea that 8U servers were THAT heavy! (it’s been 25 years since I’ve touched one, and I don’t think I ever had to move one.)

3
inactive09:06:11

OMG. This is true. That scene in Unicorn Project came straight out of a story from @scott.prugh!!! And I had no idea that 8U servers were THAT heavy! (it’s been 25 years since I’ve touched one, and I don’t think I ever had to move one.)

3
Luke09:06:45

I remember carrying some 4U servers to the bin, even they were heavy!

Cristea Ghiță09:06:41

i've never carried servers that big but once i've carried about 160 UPS's all by miself :))

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:33

We have some more 8U servers coming up.

🔨 2
😂 2
Sandeep Joshi09:06:50

Technical excellence takes time and 5+yrs is clearly the kind of commitment we need to make it a reality. In the race for speed, most of the time we attract tech debt and when not handled in a timely fashion, we become part of legacy. 🙂

👍 6
Sandeep Joshi09:06:50

Technical excellence takes time and 5+yrs is clearly the kind of commitment we need to make it a reality. In the race for speed, most of the time we attract tech debt and when not handled in a timely fashion, we become part of legacy. 🙂

👍 6
Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:19

The challenge is that the typical lifetime of a CIO is << 5 years

💯 1
Sandeep Joshi09:06:28

In general, leadership transitions is a pain point. How should we handle it?

Sandeep Joshi09:06:14

or embed at the grass root as a cultural element 🙂

👍 1
Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:16

For us it’s at CEO level and we’re trying to get it even higher at that, to the board

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:59

I am really looking forward to that @steve.robert.barr

😁 1
Jonathan Evason09:06:16

@scott.prugh Was this a career highlight smashing the server up?

😂 1
Jonathan Evason09:06:16

@scott.prugh Was this a career highlight smashing the server up?

😂 1
Jonathan Evason09:06:39

One of my first jobs was scrapping old Mass Spectrometers, nothing like taking a large hammer and smashing up old machines.

1
inactive09:06:39

(Strange memory. I remember moving a 19" Hitachi monitor in 1987 up some stairs. It was almost 100 lbs, and I almost dropped and destroyed it. I can’t imagine how heavy some of the 8U things are, @scott.prugh!)

inactive09:06:39

(Strange memory. I remember moving a 19" Hitachi monitor in 1987 up some stairs. It was almost 100 lbs, and I almost dropped and destroyed it. I can’t imagine how heavy some of the 8U things are, @scott.prugh!)

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:15

I was told they are close to 300LBs. Like a refrigerator.

inactive09:06:25

HAHAHAHA! I had no idea!!!

Jiří Klouda09:06:43

I used to have a double 8" floppy drive that 3 people had hard time to carry as it was 1m3 of metal.

2
Jiří Klouda09:06:24

This was the newer “lighter” model. I cannot find a picture of the one I had. http://www.ghb.cz/storage/201701020243_2016_11_17-28_GHB_vystava_pocitacu_24.jpg

Marcus Davage09:06:29

Nice to hear about db2 and IBM mainframes!

👍 3
Sandeep Joshi09:06:03

I am big fan of the mainframe stories from @scott.prugh!

Brian Martin09:06:11

A related tree quote that I love is, 'a society grows great when it's old men plant trees whose shade they will never know'. Forgive the gender bias. It's from ancient Greece.

Jesse Cafarelli09:06:22

Nice presentation, todays keynotes are killing it. this might be the tech, but the biggest thing that stood out so far was I never thought about using an ALB like that with flags in the header for routing. that gives me an idea using the AWS ingress controller with a kubernetes stack on doing deployments, and just switching tags on deployments when we are ready for routing. im loving all these stories :thumbsup:

👍 5
❤️ 1
Jesse Cafarelli09:06:22

Nice presentation, todays keynotes are killing it. this might be the tech, but the biggest thing that stood out so far was I never thought about using an ALB like that with flags in the header for routing. that gives me an idea using the AWS ingress controller with a kubernetes stack on doing deployments, and just switching tags on deployments when we are ready for routing. im loving all these stories :thumbsup:

👍 5
❤️ 1
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:21

Feature switches are a key architectural construct to lower the cost of activation from deploy

inactive09:06:44

“you’ll note that the assembler and Java are isomorphically equivalent.” 😆

2
inactive09:06:44

“you’ll note that the assembler and Java are isomorphically equivalent.” 😆

2
Brian Martin09:06:07

Yeah, I totally saw that.

Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:33

Me too. Uh huh. 🙂

Olivier Jacques, DXC09:06:53

"We built a cross compiler" -> indeed, this is a great example of a home built investment to modernize. Love it.

👍 1
inactive09:06:34

I love this talk because it shows what engineering greatness looks like, and the impact to business is difficult to overstate!

👍 3
🙌 2
inactive09:06:34

I love this talk because it shows what engineering greatness looks like, and the impact to business is difficult to overstate!

👍 3
🙌 2
Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)09:06:27

he makes it sounds so simple and easy…. when this took a great vision, architecture, and ruthless rigor to make happen. its inspiring

Karl Marfitt09:06:50

Adding 'reserved for future use' feature-switches everywhere now seems like a sensible approach for any as-yet-unknown potential future strangulations. Although also wondering how much wasted data there might be with network protocols that include unused reserved bits when uncompressed.

Karl Marfitt09:06:50

Adding 'reserved for future use' feature-switches everywhere now seems like a sensible approach for any as-yet-unknown potential future strangulations. Although also wondering how much wasted data there might be with network protocols that include unused reserved bits when uncompressed.

Kurt A09:06:17

You have to be careful about what happens in the "unused" branches and what might happen if your switching controller fails.

Karl Marfitt09:06:19

Indeed, also any potential for future 'abuse' as well as use 😉

inactive09:06:24

@scott.prugh: @jessicam just said to me, “I love how hard you laugh watching these talks, even though you’ve seen them before.” I told her, “It’s because these talks are SO GOOD!” cc @jeff.gallimore (We’re on a Zoom call all morning long during the plenary session.)

Tom Ayerst09:06:31

@scott.prugh This has been an amazingly inspiring talk

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:32

Love how many of these metrics tie very neatly into the whole principle of evolutionary architecture!

👍 1
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:32

Love how many of these metrics tie very neatly into the whole principle of evolutionary architecture!

👍 1
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:59

Just discussed this with my team and we will implement most of these measures in our new greenfield project

Evgeny Potapov09:06:37

@scott.prugh this is supercool

Javier Magaña - Walmart09:06:49

It speaks to my (lack of) experience when working on similar things on my teams. Great talk

Ciaran Byrne09:06:53

Loving the level of tech chops that @scott.prugh and his team demonstrate - great role model

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:06:59

@scott.prugh what’s the story with Shrek?

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:06:59

@scott.prugh what’s the story with Shrek?

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:07

Gary just hit 37 years!

🥂 5
🍾 1
🎂 2
2
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:07

Gary just hit 37 years!

🥂 5
🍾 1
🎂 2
2
Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:13

It’s important to share stories of long-time employees doing amazing innovation work too.

Austen Constable, Head of DevOps and Environments at Credit Suisse09:06:28

@scott.prugh - thanks for sharing your mainframe transformation approach and journey - really helpful!

Jonathan Evason09:06:30

Automated rollback, so cool.

inactive09:06:54

“no version control, no unit tests, no functional tests. no horizontal scaling.”

😱 7
inactive09:06:54

“no version control, no unit tests, no functional tests. no horizontal scaling.”

😱 7
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:52

Exactly like riding a sport bike on the back roads of Arkansas in the rain naked.

Akis Sklavounakis09:06:07

Kudos for showing the pics of the teams that achieved all these things

👍 8
Davy Kenis09:06:26

@scott.prugh what do you mean with end to end functional testing? How do you define end to end?

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:30

we need a continuum for collaborative vs difficult vs hostile vendors

2
inactive09:06:31

Ah!!! The entirety of this speech from @steve.robert.barr was actually in an early draft of Unicorn Project!!! (It was with much anguish that I had to cut it to hit word count target.) 😭 (Steve, I’m not sure if you knew that. I actually listened to this video many times, manually transcribing it!)

👍 3
😀 6
🔥 1
inactive09:06:31

Ah!!! The entirety of this speech from @steve.robert.barr was actually in an early draft of Unicorn Project!!! (It was with much anguish that I had to cut it to hit word count target.) 😭 (Steve, I’m not sure if you knew that. I actually listened to this video many times, manually transcribing it!)

👍 3
😀 6
🔥 1
Steve Barr09:06:50

That's awesome, I didn't know that!

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:47

@scott.prugh where can I get better info on MF testing and CI tooling?

👍 2
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:47

@scott.prugh where can I get better info on MF testing and CI tooling?

👍 2
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:58

We had a string API layer in front of the mainframe. A lot of the test automation was done in Gherkin and SpecFlow

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:52

If you want to chat offline we can.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:10

Yes please. When would be a good time?

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:28

Checking my schedule. One sec.

Evgeny Potapov09:06:26

Mind if I'll stay nearby and just listen? 🙂

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:17

The first break work for you?

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:56

@steve.robert.barr Hip Hip Hooray!

🙌 3
❤️ 24
🎉 3
🎊 4
🥂 1
inactive09:06:42

@steve.robert.barr Hip hip hooray!!! Kudos to your entire team. So amazing. Many scenes in Unicorn Project was based on seeing that so many years ago!!!

❤️ 4
Senthil Kumarathevan09:06:57

Hip hip hooray ! tooling for Cobol validation - WoW

Giulio Vian09:06:11

"Cobol Unit Testing" sweet

👍 1
nalinikant swain09:06:37

Hip hip hooray!!

Ivan Krnic (Director of Engineering at CROZ)09:06:52

@scott.prugh did I miss it, how long did this "mainframe to Java" migration take?

Olivier Jacques, DXC09:06:59

I'm getting a fan of these "forcing functions", as discussed during bof yesterday with @scott.prugh and @jonathansmart1

👍 4
Olivier Jacques, DXC09:06:59

I'm getting a fan of these "forcing functions", as discussed during bof yesterday with @scott.prugh and @jonathansmart1

👍 4
Olivier Jacques, DXC09:06:17

Some mentionned: • Frequency driven • WIP driven (minimize WIP) - batch size of ONE • ROD

Craig Cook - IBM09:06:03

It's fun to see the number of commits jump the day before end of sprint.

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]09:06:54

Two "enabling constraints" (1) Time (2) Limit work in progress (and move to pull based system)

👍 1
inactive09:06:23

(Holy cow, @scott.prugh — THANK YOU for being up to take questions during your talk. It’s 4am in Central Time Zone!!! I totally forgot about that!)

❤️ 3
👍 4
inactive09:06:23

(Holy cow, @scott.prugh — THANK YOU for being up to take questions during your talk. It’s 4am in Central Time Zone!!! I totally forgot about that!)

❤️ 3
👍 4
Cristea Ghiță09:06:29

hard work & dedication. very much appreciated! ❤️

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]09:06:30

4 words, HUGE impact "batch size of one"

👍 10
🍾 2
🙌 4
❤️ 2
Jevon White09:06:08

Great, great keynote!!

Tom Ayerst09:06:44

@scott.prugh I LOVE THIS KEYNOTE!

👏 3
❤️ 1
Olivier Jacques, DXC09:06:12

This talk will get moving many in the industry. Legacy is not scary anymore: it can be modernized.

thumbsup_all 1
👍 4
1
Shruti Jain09:06:15

Hip hip hooray!!! 😀

👍 1
inactive09:06:20

Thanks @scott.prugh!!!

Kurt A09:06:20

interesting point: "improving intake lead time"

Ciaran Byrne09:06:41

Wow. Great keynote! Such great stories - so much to take away! Thank you @scott.prugh 👏👏

Thomas Williams09:06:56

Thanks, @scott.prugh! That was a great keynote!

Olivier Jacques, DXC09:06:10

DevOps confessions is one of my all time favorites from DOES

💯 1
Jonathan Evason09:06:15

"feature tetris"

Chris Swan09:06:37

👏thanks @scott.prugh I particularly liked the honesty about vendor relations

👍 4
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:08

Oh, feature tetris. My old nemesis.

Zoltan Rozgonyi09:06:10

@scott.prugh I am amazed by your story! Congrats! This presentation was the best so far

Rui Melo09:06:24

👏awesome session. great share

Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:35

“burnout profile” - ouch

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:56

Maslach Burnout Inventory (MBI): 15 minutes, $15 USD, major wake-up call

👍 1
Patrick Debois09:06:58

@genek101 that was exactly how I felt last year when we decided to shutdown our company

😞 3
Patrick Debois09:06:58

@genek101 that was exactly how I felt last year when we decided to shutdown our company

😞 3
inactive09:06:45

🙏 (Amazingly difficult to find an emoji to express how I feel.) Congratulations on finding your path forward, Patrick…

Patrick Debois09:06:56

thank you soo much for sharing

❤️ 1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:06:17

chilling story. It is surprising how many founders get to a point where they feel powerless.

Sam Guckenheimer09:06:25

Burnout is a real issue, especially now

Sam Guckenheimer09:06:25

Burnout is a real issue, especially now

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:06:03

Yes. Yes, it is. I hear it a lot. As leaders, we need to be super sensitive to it in our teams — and in ourselves.

Cristea Ghiță09:06:45

thank you for sharing @genek101 ❤️

❤️ 2
Vani Satish09:06:08

@scott.prugh Awesome story!

sarathkanduri09:06:12

@scott.prugh Great Presentation, really like the way you mapped the KPI's of Accelerate in your team

👍 1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:06:22

really great to hear this story of someone having the courage to have this needed conversation

John Boyes09:06:26

Loving this story - it’s so authentic and honest, makes it compelling

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:31

I had choices the whole time.

👏 2
🙌 1
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:31

I had choices the whole time.

👏 2
🙌 1
Jiří Klouda09:06:05

That is so often not obvious other than in hindsight

1
1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:06:45

silence --> burnout

☝️ 3
👍 2
1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech09:06:05

Scary. Was just saying a minute ago the one job l’d always reapply for in our company is Product Owner - anything else CEO, founder, etc l’d happily have others do as l’ve burnt in them before - much harder to keep the “why” in those

🙌 2
Yasmin Sajid09:06:49

Thank you for sharing your personal story and experience @genek101

👋 1
❤️ 4
2
Ciaran Byrne09:06:26

Thanks for reading this to us, and thank you or sharing your personal experience. @genek101. Very thought provoking.

❤️ 1
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:27

Awesome story @genek101 Thank you for sharing and adding your personal experience!!

❤️ 1
David Zacharias (VP, Global IT HelpSystems he/him)09:06:27

"getting people to see what I see" - how many of us can relate to that!

👍 2
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:42

I have a semi-functional pattern for fighting feature tetris with individual teams: 1. Invest in backlog refinement activities to raise vision horizon from toe tips to actual future. This way you affect the plans before they are dictated. 2. Fix WIP to max to your real bottleneck to become a trustworthy partner to business by really delivering what you promise. 3. Fix dailies to address the team's biggest problem instead of individual round of reporting to refocus every day. This works... sometimes. What's your pattern?

👍 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:42

I have a semi-functional pattern for fighting feature tetris with individual teams: 1. Invest in backlog refinement activities to raise vision horizon from toe tips to actual future. This way you affect the plans before they are dictated. 2. Fix WIP to max to your real bottleneck to become a trustworthy partner to business by really delivering what you promise. 3. Fix dailies to address the team's biggest problem instead of individual round of reporting to refocus every day. This works... sometimes. What's your pattern?

👍 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:35

When the PO or business or whoever takes a step back and "empowers" the team, the team has to enter that space willingly or it will be undone. I remember one very specific moment when the PO showed vulnerability in a situation like that after the three step pattern had been executed for the team and their business peers think of it as the crown jewel in their tribe now.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:48

"You'll have to back me up on this from now on"

Javier Magaña - Walmart09:06:43

this is very similar to what we talk to people. This is how we address the first point. 1. Have backlog grooming by the leads to set priorities, and add details. Then review with the team during backlog refinement for the team to understand what needs to be accomplished, more details, and hopefully improve the estimation based on the breakdown (but it is still a challenge).

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:16

Oh, I am very specific not to have it by the leads alone because it leads to less ownership

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:47

A rotation of who prepares the next feature, however, achieves the same with wider ownership.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:11

So, a "learning together" event with a rotating subteam as much as necessary and then a weekly workshop with the entire team to sync with everybody

Javier Magaña - Walmart09:06:59

I like it. Thanks for the tip!

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:26

One other thing I am yet to find the team to try out would be mob programming some of the key areas before there is enough feasible tasks for everybody

Javier Magaña - Walmart09:06:28

In my experience it works very well with newly formed teams. About 3 years ago people got shuffled around, and a team with very different backgrounds came together. Mob programming set the bar to understand what we were doing without judgment. It got dissolved because 5 people working independently deliver more than 5 people working on one thing. This was one of my learning experiences for gathering metrics. @U015T7UNBKM Any other things you want to add?

Preston Gibbs - DevOps Dojo Sensei - Walmart10:06:31

100% agree Mob programming works very well and levels up the team. Metrics are the key and this type of programming looking at Integration , Deploy freq and leadtime aren’t the only data to look at. You have to look at the team and realize that everyone on the team actually becomes smarter about the product and process and gains more ownership of that product. There may be enough feasible tasks for everybody to work alone that would keep people away from mob programming but the knowledge the team will learn about the whole product and system by mobbing outweighs that by alot. In my experience.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:06:49

I see that anything architecturally significant is good to be mobbed. Going back to the high and low context idea, that part of the code should be low context and high quality in order to let everyone work with it efficiently far into the future.

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)09:06:47

Welcome to Q&A @samgu! (And at 238am his time) Rockstar!

❤️ 1
jmed09:06:48

Wow, thanks for sharing this experience @genek101

Sam Guckenheimer09:06:56

hi

👋 8
❤️ 1
inactive09:06:26

Hi, @samgu!!! Thank you for being here at 2:30am Pacific Time!!!

3
Sam Guckenheimer09:06:56

It's always 2:30 somewhere!

😆 2
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:05

@genek101 that fearlessness of outcome you stated when we talked on the phone is something I tell people is so true. It takes a certain level of accepting the consequences when you are driving change. It also takes resilience and the ability to be encouraged by the smallest motion forward. You need to be a wildly optimistic, pragmatic cynic.

👏 5
rose g09:06:49

:flag-tw:

👍 1
Brian Martin09:06:59

As a martial artist I learned that crisis means danger and opportunity and have always loved it

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:06:06

@bryan.finster “wildly optimistic, pragmatic cynic” yes…

Jiří Klouda09:06:22

Quarantine feels good to an introvert, who always wanted to work from home full time 😄

4
Jiří Klouda09:06:22

Quarantine feels good to an introvert, who always wanted to work from home full time 😄

4
Sam Guckenheimer09:06:23

in tomorrow's talk, I try to disentangle WFH and COVID

Jiří Klouda09:06:58

Looking forward to it.

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech09:06:35

@bryan.finster the good news is that courage is trainable - we can pull others into fearlessly speaking up too

🙌 3
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech09:06:35

@bryan.finster the good news is that courage is trainable - we can pull others into fearlessly speaking up too

🙌 3
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:39

Yes. I had to learn it myself.

👍 1
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:53

I've lots of empathy for fear.

❤️ 1
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:11

And leaders need to create safety for people top speak up. This is very key.

🎉 1
❤️ 1
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:28

Indeed. Air cover is critical

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:39

Being a Red Shirt is hard. 🙂

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech09:06:05

And it counts that we are religiously empathic and forensic about the types of fear too -I.e. impression management- not just tell people to have balls

💯 1
Preston Gibbs - DevOps Dojo Sensei - Walmart09:06:06

Hard but a great feeling and makes it easier for me to sleep at night

💯 1
Giulio Vian09:06:28

when it is a lack of courage and when a lack of direction

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:05

Having a strategy is key, for sure.

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech09:06:07

This is why l always return to Google’s Aristotle findings - Psychological safety (courage to speak up and not impression manage) is first but you have to have Clarity and Structure and Purpose too

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:51

Yes. A clear message of a path forward, even if they disagree, is far more effective "we need to make things better!"

👍 1
Preston Gibbs - DevOps Dojo Sensei - Walmart09:06:13

For me once i got ahold of DevOps in my brain and with hard facts and metrics. Fear left me and purpose drove me. And these events reassures me that the thought process on my team is correct.

💪 1
💯 1
inactive09:06:40

This is great stuff, @samgu — thank you for sharing this with us!!!

👏 3
1
Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:06

It is beautiful how well the Cloud and Internet have scaled.

inactive09:06:12

Microsoft Teams: online meeting minutes up 100x. (!!)

Giulio Vian09:06:12

so true @samgu "Leadership crisis" I see in many countries and companies

✔️ 1
Giulio Vian09:06:12

so true @samgu "Leadership crisis" I see in many countries and companies

✔️ 1
Sandeep Joshi09:06:36

So true. Its time to retrospect how we choose leaders, promote and share leadership..

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:13

Microsoft Teams has been amazing... COVID forced our global switch-over to be accelerated,

Sam Guckenheimer09:06:04

The Teams usage and scaling story has been stunning. That team really responded amazingly.

inactive09:06:17

From GitHub: YoY pushes up ~60%. (!!)

😲 4
inactive09:06:17

From GitHub: YoY pushes up ~60%. (!!)

😲 4
Philip Day09:06:24

Didn't that graph say there are more minutes between pushes? So less frequent? Or maybe I misread it?

Simon Williams09:06:25

@samgu re: GitHub pushes, is there a trend to what type of projects are being worked on?

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:42

Having a technical talk from the teams team on how they tackled that scale would be super interesting :thinking_face:

👍 6
inactive09:06:16

Pull request merge times down. OSS contributions up. (So fascinating!!!)

💯 7
Sam Guckenheimer09:06:16

@simonw not obvious. We're seeing both enterprise (paid) and OSS up

👍 4
Akis Sklavounakis09:06:16

We get a lot of questions around 'how do I return to the previous governance state, pre-COVID. How do I reel back the leash'...

Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:26

So what do you all think about the time to merge pull requests going down? Is that all good, or are we going to be cursing the shortcuts six months from now? Or both?

Akis Sklavounakis09:06:35

Hint: Don't! Retro and improve!

Sam Guckenheimer09:06:10

The reduced time in PR review is only good.

1
upvotepartyparrot 1
Sam Guckenheimer09:06:10

The reduced time in PR review is only good.

1
upvotepartyparrot 1
Simon Williams09:06:39

Similar trend to scientific paper reviews being accelerated as well

Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:46

I’ve seen PRs get merged that never would have passed code review a couple of months ago. So there WILL be negative consequences. Some technical debt is building up there (for example, disabled tests).

Ann Marie Fred - IBM09:06:38

I’m a true believer in getting value out the door - just pointing out that there will be costs later. 🙂

John Boyes11:06:12

One of the advantages of getting the value out the door is that (given that nothing is certain and that therefore everything is an experiment), it’s only when it’s out the door that you can really understand how much (if at all) the code will actually be used. Doesn’t mean that we should just ship anything, but there’s definitely a balance and many developers end up over-optimising prematurely.

Simon Mansfield09:06:15

Working for a 100% remote company has certainly been one of those life-changing moments for me; now I've done it, I'd be very surprised if I ever go back to non-remote work.

👍 4
inactive09:06:28

“employees post-pandemic want to work from home 40% more; employees interested at half that rate.”

Davy Kenis09:06:45

love this talk!!

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:46

GitLab is such an interesting case for ages on how 100% WFH can just be amazing if pulled of right

👍 6
🦊 2
✔️ 1
Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:46

GitLab is such an interesting case for ages on how 100% WFH can just be amazing if pulled of right

👍 6
🦊 2
✔️ 1
Simon Williams09:06:12

We hired a Head of Remote last year - he's produced some great content https://about.gitlab.com/company/culture/all-remote/guide/ is a good starting point

❤️ 1
Simon Mansfield09:06:21

If you want to talk to us about 100% remote working and how we do it, we're always keen! Our way of working and handbook is something we're incredibly proud of! #xpo-gitlab-complete-devops

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:12

Oh that is an interesting conversation ! The only downside with you guys is there is too much content to follow sometimes 😄

Simon Williams09:06:02

I've said that before 😄

Simon Williams09:06:27

We've tried to distil down what we produce. Having everything public can make it noisy

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:06:59

yeah but it's so valuable because it distils for different target audiences already

Klaus Lutterjohann09:06:47

@genek101 Thank you very much for sharing that impressing and emotional confession before. Will it be available for re-reading?

Sam Guckenheimer09:06:48

@smansfield that's a frequent reaction

👍 1
Hugo Serrano09:06:09

Same here, working 100% from home, even before covid. The time saved from commuting can improve life quality

Bogdan Babalau-Maghiar09:06:21

You think WFH will be the new way of working?

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:25

@samgu are you also going to cover conversations between employers and employees about locality changes?

inactive09:06:35

“MIT published research paper: WFH in non-high-tech firms had better financial returns; surprising, that it was those firms, not just high tech firms” (!!)

❤️ 2
1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech09:06:41

So timely, one of the few bits remaining in my book is the chapter on the post-pandemic work and l was dreading looking for the stats. Owe @samgu a virtual beer

Marcello Marrocos09:06:51

And the saved time from commuting also allow us to push more code! 😆

😊 1
Simon Mansfield09:06:52

I mean, just from my (personal) perspective; as a new dad I get to spend more time with my wife and daughter. I get to be there for the "firsts" no matter when they happen, she's only across the hall!

❤️ 3
Kendra Little09:06:04

"First, kill the 🧟:female_zombie:" is a nice easy to remember message!

1
inactive09:06:05

“divest or kill things that are holding you back”

Karl Marfitt09:06:28

So many high quality signals here and so little noise, it's still somewhat overwhelming and a bit intimidating 🙂

Jiří Klouda09:06:31

Will the slides for today be available on github later?

Jiří Klouda09:06:31

Will the slides for today be available on github later?

inactive09:06:47

Yes. @UBCR93R34 and I will get on it… soon…

Nick Jenkins (Director, Mech Rock DevOps, Perth, Oz)09:06:40

First speaker I can whole-heartedly agree with.

Adam Mcchesney09:06:42

I cant see WFH not being the new way. I think this exercise gives the data that most companies were to scared to experiment with and after looking at this there are too any benefits not to.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:06:42

Kill the zombies! < great message :dagger_knife:

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:06:42

Kill the zombies! < great message :dagger_knife:

Davy Kenis09:06:40

you see @jtf... again war :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

😆 1
Sam Guckenheimer09:06:47

@me1342 there is an academic conference we're hosting early August on this .

Sam Guckenheimer09:06:47

@me1342 there is an academic conference we're hosting early August on this .

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech09:06:41

Bloomsbury wants the manuscript way before that sadly but l can sneak an interview in this chapter if you have time

Dmitry Luchnik /// adidas Data Analytics architect09:06:51

still laughing because of this: "who drove your company digital transformation: 1)CEO, 2)CTO, 3)COVID-19"

3
👍 2
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:53

Yes!! Tackle your technical debt! Don't be a victim!

2
Yasmin Sajid09:06:54

kill your zombies!!! :female_zombie::male_zombie:

2
3
Craig Cook - IBM09:06:12

"Strangle the tech debt before it strangles you!" Great quote

👋 1
inactive09:06:12

“kill them… before they kill you” 😆

👍 3
🙌 1
inactive09:06:12

“kill them… before they kill you” 😆

👍 3
🙌 1
Jiří Klouda09:06:46

Kill or be killed, it is a harsh world.

Cristea Ghiță09:06:15

"save the cheerleader, save the world" 🙂

👍 2
😂 8
💯 2
Jonathan Evason09:06:39

I love remote working.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:40

I did WFH for six years 2003-2009. The only tools that really changed: Around 2010 Google Docs commoditized massive multiplayer text editing. Around 2020 Miro and such commoditized MMO Canvas. Otherwise... it is pretty much the same.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:40

I did WFH for six years 2003-2009. The only tools that really changed: Around 2010 Google Docs commoditized massive multiplayer text editing. Around 2020 Miro and such commoditized MMO Canvas. Otherwise... it is pretty much the same.

Simon Williams09:06:21

It's surprising how versatile and effective Google Docs can be

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:36

More stable than Etherpad too 😄

Philip Day09:06:59

I'm amazed how little google docs have changed in 10 years

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:02

100 days of Scrum of Scrum notes in the first version of that thing crashed the server.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:57

Word365 is reaching the level of Google Docs any day now 😄

Simon Williams09:06:45

Haven't used it in a few years now, but it was definitely starting to get there ~2016

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:06:31

Still failing to sync changes

😞 3
Tom Ayerst09:06:02

“Say no, more” - 👍:skin-tone-5:

Philip Day09:06:03

WFH - there is a great thread on twitter, was linked somewhere on here yesterday (sorry can't remember by who) https://twitter.com/sytses/status/1264341436138270720 - argues hybrid is hard and remote will get blamed, and rolled back

Philip Day09:06:03

WFH - there is a great thread on twitter, was linked somewhere on here yesterday (sorry can't remember by who) https://twitter.com/sytses/status/1264341436138270720 - argues hybrid is hard and remote will get blamed, and rolled back

Simon Mansfield09:06:01

Sid is the CEO of GitLab and the architect of our WFH culture. But he's 100% right, hybrid approaches tend to have drawbacks, because some communication & decision making inevitably isn't documented, this will hurt you, longer term.

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:08

Say no more!! I recall @dominica saying: "No is a full sentence!!"

3
👍 1
‼️ 1
😆 2
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:11

New from ITRev: The Zombie Project

😆 1
2
Brian Martin09:06:33

Get clean and stay clean on tech debt. Love that. Is there a 12 step process?

😁 2
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:49

MORE NO, LESS WIP 🙂

🙂 2
Sam Guckenheimer09:06:30

@philipday I know the thread...I don't believe that necessarily. If you work to support remote first, hybrid is entirely reasonable.

Tom Ayerst09:06:35

Work on the left, watch on the right

Kendra Little09:06:39

"don't be dependent on humans to tell you how machines are doing" -- that's fantastic

😊 2
Kristine Setschin - GitLab09:06:51

We also created a Remote Playbook for anyone interested to discover more on WFH culture https://about.gitlab.com/resources/ebook-remote-playbook/

👏 8
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:07

We would argue that work we have done in incident response has increased resilience in our people. This helped us adjust to covid. We even ran a release deferral with incident command smoothly

2
Sam Guckenheimer09:06:34

@scott.prugh Yes!

René Lippert09:06:42

If I had told our CEO that we should become a remote first company in January he would have send me to psychologist to examine my brain. Last month he was reading exactly this remote playbook from GitLab.

👍 2
René Lippert09:06:42

If I had told our CEO that we should become a remote first company in January he would have send me to psychologist to examine my brain. Last month he was reading exactly this remote playbook from GitLab.

👍 2
Maik Himstedt09:06:28

Unfortenately, my company is doing everything to "restore as before". It's insane.

😞 1
Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems09:06:54

Hit Refresh Satya Nadella reference!

inactive09:06:13

So good, @samgu — @pdmoore will give an awesome talk tomorrow about Zone Management tomorrow, about how to do more Core, do less Context.

👍 2
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his09:06:14

Thanks @samgu 👏 nice "teaser" 🙂

Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG09:06:18

@samgu Awesome talk! Thank you for this!!

Ulf09:06:30

as a leader it requires quite a lot to keep engagement and team spirit up, when people are isolated at home.

inactive09:06:36

Thank you @samgu!!!!

👏 1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech09:06:40

@scott.prugh do you guys measure Flexibility and Resilience separately? We do. Happy to expound why if you liked

Tom Coudyzer09:06:40

Thank you so much @samgu !

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx09:06:41

Interestingly here in Denmark, we were in many ways lucky - lockdown was short & we’re all now back in the office as if nothing changed. But maybe we miss out on having long enough away to rethink working patterns.

Michael Kalbermatter09:06:41

Great talk! Thx so much!

👍 3
Matthew Joyner09:06:53

Great talk !! 👏

Sophie Weston09:06:53

That was fascinating! Thank you @samgu!

Karl Marfitt09:06:54

👏thanks @samgu superb talk

Jesse Cafarelli09:06:09

*Warren Buffett* once said, "The difference between *successful people* and *really successful people* is that *really successful people* say no to almost everything." awseome

🙂 6
Sam Guckenheimer09:06:16

For folks who want to follow the links, here's the talk:

thankyou 8
👏 6
👍 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:18

On the topic of WFH, we've been using Topaasia for online retrospectives. Your truly also created an "Effective Remote Work" deck in the game based on 17 years of remote work in various kinds of environments. https://topaasia.com/en/

🔖 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:06:18

On the topic of WFH, we've been using Topaasia for online retrospectives. Your truly also created an "Effective Remote Work" deck in the game based on 17 years of remote work in various kinds of environments. https://topaasia.com/en/

🔖 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:06:22

The Topaasia game is greatly influenced by [Dialogue and the Art of Thinking Together](https://www.amazon.com/Dialogue-Thinking-Together-William-Isaacs/dp/0385479999). I saw an immediate connection with Agile Conversations. ping @jtf

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:22

Not yet. Another one for my reading backlog!

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:07

Isaacs is a colleague of organizational learning guru Peter Senge <well there’s a pretty direct connection

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:06:37

Thanks to Covid, I heard the founder of Topaasia finally finished reading the Fifth Discipline 😄

😄 1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:06:27

And I may have accidentally name dropped your book to him

❤️ 1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:37

I’d love to hear what he thinks of it!

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:06:15

What's the best way to build the line of communication for that packet of information? 😄

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:35

I’ll dm you my email address

👍 1
Cristea Ghiță09:06:19

great talk @samgu! thank you !

Hugo Serrano09:06:41

Great talk @samgu! 🙂

inactive09:06:47

…stand by, all…. @jeff.gallimore closing talk before break is coming…. cc @patrick.debois256

👍 4
inactive09:06:47

…stand by, all…. @jeff.gallimore closing talk before break is coming…. cc @patrick.debois256

👍 4
Kurt A10:06:45

a surprise talk not on the schedule?

Patrick Debois10:06:25

no - it's just the announcement of the breaks

Kurt A11:06:24

looks like it never quite played - BTW, really nice job on the framework and execution

Patrick Debois11:06:43

glad it's working 🙂 lost of learning for next year

Kurt A23:06:46

Or later in the year if Vegas is a smoking crater of COVID :-)

Sam Guckenheimer09:06:48

More tomorrow in the breakout. I'll go into the data.

❤️ 3
Sam Guckenheimer09:06:48

More tomorrow in the breakout. I'll go into the data.

❤️ 3
Ann Marie Fred - IBM10:06:40

Looking forward to it

Vani Satish09:06:23

Great stats @samgu thanks for sharing

Arne Rossmann09:06:30

Wonderful talk. Thanks @samgu!

Sam Guckenheimer09:06:54

Maybe I should have kept talking on this one?

😀 3
Rui Melo10:06:26

great session @aksamue! Loved to see a familiar face 🙂

😀 1
Jonathan Evason10:06:30

Great talk @samgu really loved some of these phrases, great points too. Looking forward to this break out now!

❤️ 1
Simon Mansfield10:06:46

Great talk @samgu!

❤️ 2
Anish Krishnankutty10:06:54

Absolutely Brilliant talk @samgu . Can’t wait for tomorrow:fire:

Jevon White10:06:53

If we miss the “DevOps Confessions” talks, will they be available in the library at some point?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:59

@genek101: going way back to your opening remarks on Structure do you have a top 3 / top 5 reading list to understand the research in the area?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:59

@genek101: going way back to your opening remarks on Structure do you have a top 3 / top 5 reading list to understand the research in the area?

inactive10:06:15

I’ll make one!! Still early in my learning.

👍 3
inactive10:06:08

Can you do me a favor? Can you DM or email @UASAR36TW (<mailto:annp@itrevolution.com|annp@itrevolution.com>) and let’s get some time together in July? There are times when I’m embarassed I’ve spent weeks talking about MIT Beer Game with Steve Spear. Either we’re onto something, or we’re two people who shouldn’t hang out together, because we make each other dumber. Hahaha Looking forward to head session!!!!

2
Steve Spear10:06:36

@jtf @genek101 It hasn’t helped that we’ve turned the beer game into a beer game. Shots each time we say beer game. So, it’s entirely possible that everything we’ve said has been gibberish…

😆 3
🍻 2
Steve Spear10:06:22

@jtf Here’s something to peruse in the meantime.

😀 1
👍 9
Sujaa Deepak10:06:27

Great talk @samgu !

Yasmin Sajid11:06:09

Keynotes this morning were very good - thanks to all presenters !

14
Johan Tegler12:06:30

@nicole.bryan @cdeardo #ask-the-speaker-track-4 thanks for a good presentation! What is the difference between light and dark bars in the charts? Like dark and light green (feature) in flow load.

Steve Spear12:06:41

This is @steve773 hanging out in Slack today if anyone wants to chat. Cheers.

👋 3
John Willis12:06:09

Love Cory's truth...

evakasiak12:06:41

great presentation from @aimee.bechtle055

👍 1
David Silverman13:06:19

This is @david627 - Looking forward to the sessions today!

👍 3
👋 3
Kurt A14:06:49

@steve773 @jtf this book seems to be in a similar vein as some of the discussions yesterday (just stumbled across it while following Twitter threads): https://www.amazon.com/Power-Experiments-Decision-Making-Data-Driven-ebook/dp/B084P2SD7Y

📚 1
🔖 1
Kurt A14:06:49

@steve773 @jtf this book seems to be in a similar vein as some of the discussions yesterday (just stumbled across it while following Twitter threads): https://www.amazon.com/Power-Experiments-Decision-Making-Data-Driven-ebook/dp/B084P2SD7Y

📚 1
🔖 1
Kurt A14:06:47

Looks like I need to start a DOES list in my Amazon acct 🙂

1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations14:06:01

Another one for the list! The fallout from this conference is going to last a long longer than the conference… 📚

inactive14:06:33

So glad you’re here, @david627!! Looking forward to your talk! cc @jessica.reif @jessicam

👍 1
💯 1
inactive14:06:48

And you, too, @steve773!

Steve Spear14:06:35

@david627 @genek101 Hey David. Good morning. Looking forward to seeing the preso. Cheers. Steve

David Silverman14:06:25

Excited as well!

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech15:06:44

Highlight of my day! Really looking forward to it @david627

💯 1
🎉 1
John Willis15:06:18

Love Team of Teams .. gonna be a tough act to follow.

💯 4
🎉 1
John Willis15:06:18

Love Team of Teams .. gonna be a tough act to follow.

💯 4
🎉 1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech15:06:03

Do you mean on the DOES stage or by any other book about teams :white_frowning_face:😄

inactive15:06:44

So glad you’re here, @david627, and your colleague, @jessica.reif!

🙌 4
inactive15:06:44

So glad you’re here, @david627, and your colleague, @jessica.reif!

🙌 4
Jessica Reif - CrossLead15:06:17

Thank you @genek101! We are excited to be here!

Li Zhu15:06:58

Love the scripts

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)15:06:47

@david627 when we started our journey in 2014, our SVP referenced your book constantly. Really formational to our thought processes.

☝️ 1
🎉 1
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)15:06:47

@david627 when we started our journey in 2014, our SVP referenced your book constantly. Really formational to our thought processes.

☝️ 1
🎉 1
Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]15:06:03

Likewise, the exec committee at my previous place of work all read it ✔️

David Silverman15:06:26

Thanks @bryan.finster would love to hear more about your journey incorporating some of these lessons at Walmart!

David Silverman15:06:26

Thanks @bryan.finster would love to hear more about your journey incorporating some of these lessons at Walmart!

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)15:06:29

@david627 you mentioned the philosophy that rivalry between organizations gets better outcomes… was the thinking that competition brings out the best in them?

David Silverman15:06:03

@jeff.gallimore Exactly. The competition between units for Jobs would drive us to constantly improve. That was the thinking pre 9/11

thankyou 1
David Silverman15:06:03

@jeff.gallimore Exactly. The competition between units for Jobs would drive us to constantly improve. That was the thinking pre 9/11

thankyou 1
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)15:06:45

…and it also reinforced stovepipes and hindered collaboration, right? because for me to win, i have to be better than YOU.

Steve Spear17:06:11

To @jeff.gallimore and @david627 points. My team vs your team can be productive if it’s in the spirit of friendly rivalry and if (there’s a big and if) and if our work is not interdepedent.

Steve Spear17:06:01

However, if our work is interdependent, that sort of metric is terribly corrosive. Imagine if on a basketball team, everyone got paid by individual points scored rather than some element of games and trophies won? Jack Welsch ran such a zero sum system at GE. Fortunately, he had decades of riches from GE Finance to hide that GE everything else wasn’t terribly competitive. Raises the question, if our leading business schools have a forced curve how does that reconcile with creating leaders able to facilitate collaboration and shared gain? I was once subject to such a grading system. Easy for me as an educator. Didn’t matter what I did. I just had to distribute I IIs and IIIs to the ratio, and I hit my numbers. Far harder to teach where A=mastered the material, B=gained proficiency, and C=showed familiarity. I’m now on the hook. One, I’ve got to pick the right material for the audience that mastery is possible (why would I want to teach where the goal is ‘familiarity’). Two, I’ve got tow rok on my teaching because who doesn’t want to earn an A (well, some don’t but you get my point), and three, I’ve got to be adaptive to alter who I teach how so my teaching matches their learning. In a forced curve system, II and III means you didn’t try hard enough to beat your teammate. With an absolute scale, (assuming motivation all around), B means I didn’t do my job.

David Silverman15:06:36

@jonathansmart1 Curious which company was that?

David Silverman15:06:36

@jonathansmart1 Curious which company was that?

inactive15:06:58

Founded in the year 1635, predating the invention of paper currency. You can imagine how highly evolved the bureaucracy was there — evolved over centuries! 😆

🙂 1
Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]15:06:56

A bit younger. 1690. A bit before USA existed 😉

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech15:06:12

@jonathansmart1 @bryan.finster - had they read the Projects too?

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech15:06:12

@jonathansmart1 @bryan.finster - had they read the Projects too?

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)15:06:21

The SVP was pushing Phoenix Project hard in 2014. I'm waiting for Unicorn to hit Safari, but many are reading it.

👍 2
John Willis15:06:35

Amazing video of Jobs talking about Juran.

Akis Sklavounakis15:06:12

BTW Cynefin has 5 domains

👍 1
René Lippert15:06:29

I think one of the most underestimated things in the Knowledge Economy was that the single worker in the factory has now a much better education. During Taylors time that was not the case.

inactive15:06:43

PS: I’m incredibly jealous that @jonathansmart1 has a glowing quote from David Snowden on his book cover. 🙂

🙏 1
Akis Sklavounakis15:06:28

The 5th is A/C: Aporetic or Confused in the latest iteration.

2
inactive15:06:41

One of my fave quotes from @jonathansmart1 new book “Sooner Safer Happier” was the fact that forty languages were spoken on the Ford assembly line 100 years ago — showing how little collaboration was actually required. did I get that right? cc @steve773

inactive15:06:41

One of my fave quotes from @jonathansmart1 new book “Sooner Safer Happier” was the fact that forty languages were spoken on the Ford assembly line 100 years ago — showing how little collaboration was actually required. did I get that right? cc @steve773

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]15:06:33

50 languages spoken in the Ford Detroit factory

❤️ 1
Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]15:06:33

It didn't matter, as people didn't need to speak to each other, doing reptitive, specialised tasks

inactive15:06:01

“designed and developed in the 1920s to take down organized crime”

David Silverman15:06:01

@rene.lippert so correct. The democratization of education in the middle of the 20th century was a significant driver for the knowledge econmy

👍 2
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG15:06:09

@david627 I love the use of cynefin to discuss how people and orgs are stuck thinking in the wrong quadrant...

👍 3
John Willis15:06:11

First rule of the cynefin fight club is you never tell the customer about cynefin. The second rule is, when someone asks you how to make accurate predictions... THEN show the cynefin"

😆 2
John Willis15:06:11

First rule of the cynefin fight club is you never tell the customer about cynefin. The second rule is, when someone asks you how to make accurate predictions... THEN show the cynefin"

😆 2
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)15:06:32

Was having that conversation last night about estimates. 😂.

Jason Yavorska15:06:03

More iconoclasts like David Snowden at conferences would be wonderful. 🙂

Jeremy McGee15:06:06

Handoffs == "blinks". Interesting

👍 1
Giulio Vian15:06:14

I like "blink"

👍 1
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG15:06:43

Ironically I have used the cynefin analogy comparing ITIL to agile and devops processes

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili15:06:10

I am not sure if a lot of DevOps is in the complex domain. Most of it is just assigning stupid repetitions to computers.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili15:06:37

Sure, there are the complex parts but especially the tooling part is moving complicated things into obvious space.

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]15:06:42

I refer to Cynefin many times in Sooner Safer Happier.

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]15:06:35

I find that it really works with orgs. Especially Head of HR, Head of Procurement, Head of Finance who have been told by someone that they need to be 'agile'. The domains of work conversation is a relief

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]15:06:58

Right approach for the type of work. Ordered and knowable or unordered and emergent

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili15:06:53

I have found that Cynefin is often a confuser too 😄

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)15:06:51

Like metrics. Only to be shared with those who know how to use it.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:06:54

That's like Catch 22. The top management should be able to use cynefin but they don't and can't be told...

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)16:06:04

You ease them into it before you use it for real.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:06:27

Can't afford a 5-year ease 😉

😂 1
Giulio Vian15:06:58

so "don't blink" applies well here

Giulio Vian15:06:58

so "don't blink" applies well here

Kurt A15:06:01

Dr Who reference? 🙂 👼

Giulio Vian15:06:39

I was waiting for someone to notice 😉

Kurt A15:06:50

:tardis: - sadly lacking emoji complement here 😕

John Willis15:06:17

@scott.prugh that's cool

David Silverman15:06:42

@scott.prugh love that as well

inactive15:06:06

Trust, Common Purpose, Empowered Execution, Shared Consciousness

inactive15:06:23

“radical transparency”

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)15:06:35

@scott.prugh i was talking to @steve773 about this recently. the advocated tactics TOTALLY change depending on where you believe you are.

💯 1
👍 1
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)15:06:35

@scott.prugh i was talking to @steve773 about this recently. the advocated tactics TOTALLY change depending on where you believe you are.

💯 1
👍 1
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)15:06:27

the big idea from that conversation was whether you could THINK your way into the right answer or EXPERIMENT (act) your way into the right answer. Very few problems these days in the former category.

Kurt A16:06:19

If experiment is the right tactic, then that seems to align into the complex domain. Of course that also matches with considering people as non-linear first order components (h/t @jtf)

👍 2
David Silverman15:06:57

#shared consciousness is critical to adaptive teams!

💯 1
Dan Vallera15:06:08

this presentation is EPIC!

❤️ 4
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG15:06:13

And I argued that modern cloud based saas is more like "warfare". There are emergent threats: cyber, competitors. Rapid change. Dangerous operating environment.

👍 1
😀 1
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)15:06:23

People forget that tactics aren't a strategy.

inactive15:06:32

“shared consciousness is the first thing that is compromised” --> as a side effect of structure love that phrase: “decision making space gets pulled up” — that a great phrase for that… phenomenon. 🙂

👍 14
2
Patrick Debois15:06:50

Or in general @scott.prugh: dealing with uncertainty & politics 🙂

thumbsup_all 3
Akis Sklavounakis15:06:41

'Move decision making where information is most'

👍 5
Akis Sklavounakis15:06:41

'Move decision making where information is most'

👍 5
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)15:06:24

theme from the book: push authority to information, not information to authority.

René Lippert15:06:33

Not only the information but also the impact is.

Dan Vallera15:06:16

@david627 I want to present this to my organization at Kessel Run, I think it will really resonate!!

👍 4
Dan Vallera15:06:16

@david627 I want to present this to my organization at Kessel Run, I think it will really resonate!!

👍 4
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)15:06:18

We built teams around problems as well. Pipelines, testing, etc. Those teams were ephemeral, but impactful to the org.

Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty15:06:09

I like this as a leadership mantra: Eyes on, hands off

1
💯 6
✔️ 1
☝️ 1
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG15:06:17

@david627: Eyes on, hands off! Love that!

David Silverman15:06:25

@dvallera would love to help.

👍 2
💯 2
inactive15:06:28

“the structure [before/after] remained unchanged” (i.e., Navy SEALs still reported thru Dept of Navy, Army Rangers thru Dept of Army, etc..). still functional orientation, but teams matrixed into mission teams? @david627

👍 1
inactive15:06:12

Ah, that’s the phrase. “eyes on, hands off” vs. “decision space being being pulled up”

Ann Marie Fred - IBM15:06:31

I’m doing the mental math… 15,000 people times a 90 minute meeting every day.

Ann Marie Fred - IBM15:06:31

I’m doing the mental math… 15,000 people times a 90 minute meeting every day.

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his15:06:12

= a very expensive meeting

Ann Marie Fred - IBM16:06:06

I like to use $100/hr as a rough estimate for US professional resources. $2.25 million per meeting, each day. Dang.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations16:06:58

They were going to spend that money anyway… the question is how to get value for the money spent.

✔️ 2
inactive15:06:54

I thought this was fascinating: this horse-trading between leaders allowed better allocation of resources (vs. centralized planning).

inactive15:06:54

I thought this was fascinating: this horse-trading between leaders allowed better allocation of resources (vs. centralized planning).

John Boyes16:06:19

This reminds me of David J Anderson’s description of Kanban’s replenishment meetings in his blue book. He describes how replenishment meetings require multiple stakeholders to horse-trade with each other, and that leads to better results than having one person coordinating.

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech15:06:26

one of the awesomest examples of “radical transparency” l’ve seen is a leadership team with a public Trello board for their management Kanban - took forever but once they worked out they haven’t lost their halo and no sky collapsed it increased everyone’s trust

😂 4
David Silverman15:06:47

@ann.marie.99 lot of time. But it reduced overall meetings by 20% and the speed and quality of operations went up 10X

David Silverman15:06:47

@ann.marie.99 lot of time. But it reduced overall meetings by 20% and the speed and quality of operations went up 10X

Ann Marie Fred - IBM15:06:59

Wow. So you think it was worthwhile.

Ann Marie Fred - IBM16:06:40

I think a government is the only entity that could spend that much on a meeting every day. 🙂

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations16:06:12

they weren’t spending the money on the meeting, they were spending it on the results

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili15:06:54

"Your C-suite is where the idea came from"... umm... nope

2
😂 2
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili15:06:54

"Your C-suite is where the idea came from"... umm... nope

2
😂 2
Ann Marie Fred - IBM16:06:06

It is true that they rarely do the productive work, though.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:06:32

Since smoking cigars in the corner office was banned for health reasons, what are they actually doing?

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:06:04

Being a big cat myself, I see how that can be a full day job

Dan Vallera15:06:18

SO MUCH INFORMATION in 30 MINS!

3
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili15:06:35

Okay, he didn't say "good idea" came from C-suite. They have ideas, granted.

😆 1
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)15:06:41

great characterization of the org hierarchy here…

🙌 2
inactive16:06:16

@david627 in your Navy SEAL days, what people tended to be the most influential, ala that graph you just showed? (specific rank, skillset?)

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:06:32

their version of deploy frequency = raid frequency

🎉 5
😀 3
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:06:32

their version of deploy frequency = raid frequency

🎉 5
😀 3
Peter Maddison16:06:19

Outcomes are higher casualities

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)16:06:33

Not very automated, so toil.

David Silverman16:06:28

over time rank mattered a lot less. It was how active you were in the network

🎉 4
David Silverman16:06:28

over time rank mattered a lot less. It was how active you were in the network

🎉 4
inactive16:06:19

were there any surprising characteristics of who tended to be most influential in the network?

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)16:06:31

Oh, this is very true. Influence and pay grade are loosely coupled.

Matt Takane16:06:35

A very neat aspect that leads to how it is the reign of the impact you provide to the organization. The influence and reputation become more important than skill, but all are more important than title.

💯 1
Preston Gibbs - DevOps Dojo Sensei - Walmart16:06:16

This couldn’t be anymore spot on.

inactive16:06:31

20x faster increase in # of raids

David Silverman16:06:43

The speed and quality was an output of changing our operating rhythm and specifically that daily O&I or Scrum of Scrum.

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]16:06:50

"every employee engaged" love it

😀 1
Scott Prugh - Chief Technology Officer - CSG16:06:56

@steve773 The daily operational 90 min review in TOT reminds me of Capability 3?

Michael Winslow16:06:04

"Since it's a Bureaucratic org I can pretty much be passive aggressive and there is nothing you can do about it." -- OUCH! and true... 😞

💯 2
😆 1
Brian Martin16:06:11

@david627 do you remember the Flintstone's episode where Fred becomes an executive at the quarry? He was told all he ever had to do was say 3 things. Who's baby is that? What's my line? I'll buy that.

🙂 1
Jim DeMarre16:06:37

Doesn't it seem that a lot of the transformation ideas, or at least energy ,in this summit community's context originate sort of bottom up?

Nick Eggleston (Nix) - IT Architect - (actively looking)16:06:38

Chess master vs Gardener as model for leadership

👍 2
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his16:06:51

We're gardeners... @helen.beal was on to something in talking about Kingley Vale

😊 3
🌷 1
Slackbot16:06:18

Reminder: Don’t miss an opportunity for live Q&A with David Silverman at 7:00pm London time as a follow-up to his closing talk today. Join the discussion at https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/359896061

inactive16:06:22

I loved that comment: “maybe the best thing to do is to just separate two people who don’t work well together”

👍 2
inactive16:06:22

I loved that comment: “maybe the best thing to do is to just separate two people who don’t work well together”

👍 2
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)16:06:53

Not on my team. 🙂 I told a manager I was firing one of the team for malpractice. He said I didn't have that authority. I said I revoked his source access, so apparently I did. 🙂

John Willis16:06:43

Great presentation.

Nic Whittaker16:06:04

"commodity" vs "soft skills" - one of the biggest challenges i've had in a tech community

inactive16:06:09

“self awareness” : ability for your team mates to predict what you’ll do, even in stressful situations

👍 4
Edu Escartí16:06:21

Ohh boy… whole month salary spent on books… 😄 STOP GIVING SUCH GOOD ADVICE

😂 1
😥 1
Senthil Kumarathevan16:06:24

great SELF awareness not self awareness

Alex Schwartz16:06:25

excellent talk, @david627

Matthew Joyner16:06:31

That was an amazing presentation. Thanks @david627!! 👏

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)16:06:35

<!here> continue the conversation with @david627 https://sched.co/cbkL

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech16:06:35

So is “self aware” and “connecting” - “EQ” and “empathy” @david627?

John Willis16:06:37

Wasup DOES

👋 4
John Willis16:06:37

Wasup DOES

👋 4
gerald16:06:44

TOT reminds me of release trains and train-of-trains

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:06:46

On the topic of military leadership, our :flag-fi: local approach has 3/4 of the corner stones of transformational leadership and the fourth "Idealized Influence" is replaced with "Building Trust"

inactive16:06:46

Thank you so much to @david627 — he will be available for live Q&A session later today!!!

Nic Whittaker16:06:52

That was cracking. Thanks @david627

Thomas Williams16:06:53

Great presentation. Going to re-read the book this week.

David Silverman16:06:10

Hosting Q&A later for those that want a live discussion. Thanks for having me.

thankyou 3
💥 1
Peter Maddison16:06:13

Thanks @david627, great presentation

Steve Spear16:06:14

@david627 nice job. cheers.

Alistair Doran16:06:15

Brilliant session ...... learn so much. More of this please.

Alex Schwartz16:06:16

for the organizers: was hilarious to read the "Pacific goals" in the subtitles

Alex Schwartz16:06:16

for the organizers: was hilarious to read the "Pacific goals" in the subtitles

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his16:06:41

The captions were baked into the presentation - ITRev had nothing to do with it

Aparna B16:06:25

powerpacked @david627

John Willis16:06:29

A resources list of things I talked about in this presentation

👍 5
John Willis16:06:29

A resources list of things I talked about in this presentation

👍 5
Tim Dempsey16:06:24

https://blackswanfarming.com/cost-of-delay/ great page. Ran out of oxygen several times telling people exactly this. The Cost of doing nothing is HUGE.

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]16:06:35

Great talk @david627.That was like a conference in a talk :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

👍 10
John Willis16:06:56

A couple of notes I forgot to mention… My coworker Jabe Bloom is getting his PHD in Transition Design from Carnegie Mellon School of Design.  A lot of the design ideas in my presentation come from Jabe - https://design.cmu.edu/user/856

👍 2
2
inactive16:06:02

Welcome, @jwillis — good seeing you again!!!!

2
David Silverman16:06:03

@jwillis looking forward to this a lot

Davy Kenis16:06:14

@genek101 we’re wondering the title from the red book in your bookshelf. Help us out :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

😎 1
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)16:06:26

Amazing, energizing talk @david627!

👍 2
🎉 2
Preston Gibbs - DevOps Dojo Sensei - Walmart16:06:46

@david627 Great Presentation and thank you for your Service to all of us. Expected nothing less from a FrogMan.

🎉 4
💯 4
inactive16:06:57

Oh! That book on my shelf is “Dynamic Manufacturing”, recommended to me by @steve773. Some mind-blowing case studies in there.

🙌 2
inactive16:06:57

Oh! That book on my shelf is “Dynamic Manufacturing”, recommended to me by @steve773. Some mind-blowing case studies in there.

🙌 2
Davy Kenis16:06:20

here goes the increase on my todo list!

John Willis16:06:08

@david627 Great presentation.

😂 1
John Willis16:06:33

All things lead back to Patrick...

Jesse Cafarelli16:06:45

ha, I love this picture

Matt Takane16:06:52

@jwillis unicorn graphic BUAAHAHAHA

3
💩 2
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)16:06:12

Are you going to have Pandas @jwillis?

😄 1
John Willis16:06:40

NOPANDAS!!!!!

🐼 3
John Willis16:06:40

NOPANDAS!!!!!

🐼 3
Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems16:06:22

I was typing out a question about what do failures look like and then theres a slide of it!

Davy Kenis16:06:35

build things that don’t matter :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Luke Rettig (Sr Director Product Management - Target)16:06:46

Product = builds things that don’t matter… the reason why i moved from dev to product 😰

2
👍 2
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his16:06:47

^^ we hired a prodmgr who make the same move - sick of building useless features

💯 1
Patrick Debois16:06:09

I love how @jwillis can get really charged when he gets passionate ❤️

❤️ 8
Thomas Williams16:06:47

Agile Conversations?

❤️ 2
John Willis16:06:56

People who have their fingers on the keyboard...

Thomas Williams16:06:37

From seeing safety as an absence of negatives to seeing it as the presence of a positive capacity to make things go right. A focus on safety and risk should become a focus on resilience.

😀 4
Thomas Williams16:06:37

From seeing safety as an absence of negatives to seeing it as the presence of a positive capacity to make things go right. A focus on safety and risk should become a focus on resilience.

😀 4
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his16:06:55

There's a whole side thread to be had about advocacy/allyship here

Kurt A16:06:02

Sounds like we need the two Johns (@allspaw and @jwillis) to sing a duet 🙂

John Allspaw18:06:09

But to be sure…there’s no law preventing us from doing it again @jwillis, right? 😉

John Willis18:06:57

Someday... Hopefully next year we can start the new normal. We are long overdue for a jam session.

👍 1
Akis Sklavounakis16:06:30

18 months expired certificates...:-(

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:06:48

i love @ricookmd’s paper on all of this: how complex systems fail. blows my mind every time i read it.

John Willis16:06:49

Yep and a ton more of complexities...

inactive16:06:58

@jeff.gallimore I was so super delighted to see @ricookmd at the @allspaw Q&A session yesterday!!! (Two people with bow ties there! 🙂

bowtie 2
inactive16:06:58

@jeff.gallimore I was so super delighted to see @ricookmd at the @allspaw Q&A session yesterday!!! (Two people with bow ties there! 🙂

bowtie 2
Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his16:06:34

Gene: Unicorn Bowties. Make it so.

😆 1
Nick Eggleston (Nix) - IT Architect - (actively looking)16:06:32

Drinking from the firehouse is super fun with @jwillis

1
👍 1
Akis Sklavounakis16:06:42

Love the Greek columns...

John Willis16:06:53

the crazy stuff hasn't really started yet.

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech16:06:05

@jwillis do you reckon that the reason you accomplish teaming and therefore Psychological Safety with these people (eventually) it is because they’ve been reading you for long enough to be in awe and be “preloaded” with trust?

👍 1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech16:06:05

@jwillis do you reckon that the reason you accomplish teaming and therefore Psychological Safety with these people (eventually) it is because they’ve been reading you for long enough to be in awe and be “preloaded” with trust?

👍 1
Kurt A16:06:43

I suspect he is really good at employing the trust conversation from Agile Conversations

John Willis16:06:36

Psychological Safety is core....

👍 1
❤️ 1
Nick Eggleston (Nix) - IT Architect - (actively looking)16:06:38

Empowering Applied intelligence to complexity at the edge

Jonathan Evason16:06:00

This talk has got me thinking, is there any books that cover a range of IT / Company issues and how those things happened? i.e we got hacked, this is how it happened, here's the lessons learned.

Jonathan Evason16:06:00

This talk has got me thinking, is there any books that cover a range of IT / Company issues and how those things happened? i.e we got hacked, this is how it happened, here's the lessons learned.

Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty16:06:22

This idea was the origination of the DevOps confessional two years ago. There is value in talking about failure (it just turns out, that its hard to get your marketing departments to allow that in public)

Philip Day16:06:39

@ricookmd last night said something to that effect - no-one publishes the truth about incidents

Jonathan Evason16:06:58

Yeah I imagine so, but there must be a wealth of learning potential wrapped up in these incidents that could truly benefit the community.

Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty16:06:27

Yes - part of the genesis was the happy hour chat at 2017 after @ricookmd @URMGXUYRE and sidney dekker talk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFMJ3V4VakA)

👍 1
John Willis16:06:11

EA's Talk among us

Jesse Cafarelli16:06:27

Its like John works at my company

2
Matt Takane16:06:46

> Thinking on the complexity diagram a bit. It is more unnerving to have a system that has actions and things being done without known connections or processes well known, than having one that is super complex yet known. Wonder if it is akin to "devil you know" versus the "devil you don't"

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:06:05

An 31-year-old EA felt proud of being one at the young age. Didn't respect my congratulations on being a young dinosaur 😄

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:06:06

@jwillis how would you describe the “90's model of architecture”?

👍 1
John Willis16:06:31

@jesse.cafarelli That's one of the greatest compliments. Goldratt and Gene have both got that compliment... Thank you.

😂 4
1
John Willis16:06:31

@jesse.cafarelli That's one of the greatest compliments. Goldratt and Gene have both got that compliment... Thank you.

😂 4
1
Jesse Cafarelli16:06:22

You really did hit the nail on the head. Trying to figure out how to fit EA's process they have into a more devops, flexible development cycle that does not hinder development efficiency has been a challenge

John Willis16:06:39

@jeff.gallimore That's part of the reason for the 5E. It's like Chinese medicine... balance theory...

John Boyes16:06:12

When trust is high, I think many developers want increased visibility (i.e. open source). Trust is not always high in organisations, of course.

✔️ 2
John Willis16:06:34

@john710 YES!

😁 1
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech16:06:34

Governance that feels helpful and protective of clarity, structure and stability

1
Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:06:51

Constraints and freedom resonates well with what @schmark talking about bureaucracy.

John Willis16:06:52

hint hint... in 2020 you must have a platform strategy for the next decade. Not PaaS but a Platform as an Interface...

7
💯 1
John Willis16:06:47

Deming!!!

👂 1
John Willis16:06:47

Deming!!!

👂 1
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:06:00

@jwillis ahhh, there’s deming. i was waiting for that from you.

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his16:06:16

LOL yeah we should listen to him, too

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems16:06:30

Where can I learn more about Platfrom as an Interface? I dont know if I know how to design that right now.

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems16:06:30

Where can I learn more about Platfrom as an Interface? I dont know if I know how to design that right now.

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his16:06:33

I sound like @U015MQR554N

👍 1
Nick Eggleston (Nix) - IT Architect - (actively looking)16:06:53

Precision in operational definitions is critical to data quality

✔️ 2
Jason Yavorska16:06:57

Talk of the day for me, thank you @jwillis!

John Willis16:06:38

The Three Economies is a good place to start. The cheat sheet about has Jabe's two blog about 3E

👍 1
Aparna B16:06:40

If we are running in the same place.. we are losing!! @jwillis

Matt Takane16:06:22

Metrics-Based Transformation. figure out how to measure non-vanity metrics and use that to constantly evolve those metrics and inform decisions

Matt Takane16:06:22

Metrics-Based Transformation. figure out how to measure non-vanity metrics and use that to constantly evolve those metrics and inform decisions

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his16:06:53

Use devops proxy/vanity metrics to glue/align your software delivery capability to your business outcomes, IMHO

Matt Takane16:06:03

outcomes becomes the key. not just measuring an output. While important, it should inform how well you achieve the outcome, not be the key measure

Matt Takane16:06:58

but I do agree that leveraging what you can currently get easily can lead you to figuring out what those metrics of outcomes should be

Brian Martin16:06:27

Wow. Going to have to watch this multiple times

3
jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:06:18

@jwillis good point about getting management to learn Taguchi. Learn, change, grow, get better, or…

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:06:18

@jwillis good point about getting management to learn Taguchi. Learn, change, grow, get better, or…

Li Zhu17:06:27

Although TPS(Toyotao Production System) is quite famous because of Taguchi, many Japanese will argue actually a lot of ideas of Lean came from TDS(Toyota Product Development System)

👍 2
Akis Sklavounakis16:06:26

@jwillis This brings back memories of 6σ...

Jesse Cafarelli16:06:43

i have to say, todays keynotes have all been 🔥

👍 3
Matt Takane16:06:00

jabe's article on 3 economies is great! ++ @jwillis

John Willis16:06:18

Good post about platform as interfaces ... they don't describe it this way.. but the ideas are in the paper. https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/research.google.com/en//pubs/archive/43438.pdf

Craig Cook - IBM16:06:20

@jwillis I saw a presentation from Doug Kirkpatrick a few months go about org structures. Are you aware of his work? The No-Limits Enterprise: Organizational Self-Management In The New World Of Work

🔖 1
John Willis16:06:47

@cncook001 No I'll check it out..

John Willis16:06:47

@cncook001 No I'll check it out..

Craig Cook - IBM16:06:13

It is certainly not a traditional org. Sounded like a great way to run one though. Based on relationship agreements, not management.

Craig Cook - IBM16:06:51

He used the term to the affect of "they don't pay the management tax"

Pete Nuwayser IBM he/him/his16:06:42

@jwillis 👏 🙏 awesome

👏 5
Matthew Joyner16:06:52

Thanks @jwillis - I learned a lot in a very short time! 👏

Todd Brooks16:06:03

Thanks @jwillis Great talk

John Boyes16:06:27

One helpful way I’ve found to talk about platforms is to ask people to think about the definition of the word “platform” (the generic, non-tech definition). What is a platform? It’s something you put things on. Does that tally with the platform as an interface concept, @jwillis?

John Willis16:06:28

Thanks everyone... fun stuff...

thankyou 1
inactive16:06:28

Thank you, @jwillis!!!!

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech16:06:33

I was hired as CGO for a giant banking software company to build their platform and then they asked why we were trying to make one in a fun board meeting a year later 😂

🙃 1
🤯 3
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech16:06:33

I was hired as CGO for a giant banking software company to build their platform and then they asked why we were trying to make one in a fun board meeting a year later 😂

🙃 1
🤯 3
<