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#ask-the-speaker-plenary
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2021-05-20
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Ron Westrum02:05:42

I think the point made by Nora and by John Allspaw is excellent.

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:05:27

@ronwestrum: have you ever studied the sociology of incident analysis in particular, or do you know others that have? (Or perhaps you have just considered it as one element of the larger organizational culture and not something to study on its own?)

Ron Westrum17:05:17

Jeffrey, I am very aware, from the aviation literature, about how often incident investigations go astray. In one of my papers (in Risk in Extreme Environments) I list four famous accidents that were mis-investigated the first time around. Also see "evaluation of military weapon systems!" There is a politics to investigation. Best, Ron W

Ron Westrum17:05:42

And, I have to admit, I have thought about making this an area of study. Just look at the Nimrod investigation (Great Britain), and what led up to it. Ron

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:05:33

Excited for Day 3! What a line up!! Kim & Spear, Westrum, Smart, and so many other exciting topics.

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Jim Moverley09:05:09

#checkin naturally a little drained after @corey session 😄 #megaenergy!

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)09:05:35

I wouldn't get up at 2am 3 days in a row for any other conference!

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Chris09:05:28

Respect @rshoup Got the chance to be in a more favorable timezone, however attending RSAC at the same time which is in PDT, days end at 2am here ;)

Ann Perry - IT Revolution09:05:14

📣 Kicking things off this morning is @mail832, Head of Product at UK Government Digital Service!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:31

Good morning, all!  I hope you’ve had an amazing Days 1 and 2 — we have a TON of amazing stuff planned for Day 3 —  If all goes well, we may have some surprising additions to the program that I think you’ll really love. (It’s something we’ve never tried before, but hopefully it’s “high risk, high gain!” Motto of Apollo program. 🙂

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Julia Harrison09:05:32

👋:skin-tone-2: Hi everyone, great to see you even if I can’t actually see you! My talk is up now, about how GDS and the Government as a Platform products (GaaP) enable digital services to be built in super-fast time. I’ll be here posting bonus content as we go...

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:05

Hi, @mail832!! So delighted that you’re presenting this morning — I loved your talk last year, and it was so great meeting you one year ago!

Julia Harrison09:05:34

Thanks for the intro @genek!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:36

PS: OKRs, everyone’s fave topic, show up in this presentation, too.

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:05:55

Was about to say, OKRs seem to be everywhere this year :thinking_face:

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:13

“I need you on a call.” 😱 😆

Christian Kullmann, Eurowings Digital, Automation Professional (He/Him)09:05:31

“I’m so glad you volunteered” 🙈

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:33

and you have Volunteered

Chris09:05:13

For a good cause at least

Steve Smith09:05:14

Wow, I didn't realise the shielding service had to be built on 3 days notice, I thought there was more time. Great job @mail832

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:05:25

You really have to do MVPs if your first product needs to be out in 4 days :shocked_face_with_exploding_head:

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Adrienne Shulman09:05:25

you can compromise a lot but not privacy & security 💫

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]09:05:43

"Government as a Platform" love that

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Julia Harrison09:05:33

More about GaaP contribution to COVID-19 response here: https://gds.blog.gov.uk/2020/05/13/how-government-as-a-platform-is-helping-in-the-covid-19-response/ (May 2020)

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]09:05:36

Business Oriented Architecture

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:05:14

"Do it once but right" - If someone solves payment properly for everyone, watch people fly 😱

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:40

@mail832’s COVID vaccination appointment was delivered thru her own service!! 🎉

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Julia Harrison09:05:09

2010 was sooo loooong agoooo 💀

Philip Day09:05:33

We haven't even had the Olympics!

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:48

The consistency and simplicty of .http://gov.uk websites is really something to behold. It makes it enjoyable filling in all those forms

Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)09:05:50

can hear some background noise

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Billy Hudson - ScholarPack - DevOps Engineer09:05:53

I can hear someone macbooking

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Sophie Weston09:05:59

"Users shouldn't need to know how government is structured to find what they need" 👏

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:05:26

Government websites that work... a distant dream 😂

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Julia Harrison09:05:33

we can hear you Gene

Phil Boyd (BT)09:05:48

Live feed is active

Stijn Claes - Nike09:05:54

wow it is really live..

Phil Boyd (BT)09:05:56

Can hear your voices

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Steve Smith09:05:14

Ongoing Chaos Day? :thinking_face:

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Sam Wiskow - Procter Gamble09:05:24

We can hear your vocies over the speaker

Chris Leeworthy (he/him)09:05:28

someone’s audio is bleeding over the presentation folks

David Read09:05:53

Well done for fixing it sound folks 👏

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:02

Can everyone confirm audio leak is fixed? 🙏

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Tino Dietel, Tradebyte, Engineering Lead09:05:21

such things make it just better - shows there are humans working behind the scenes to make all of this happen - good work!

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Julia Harrison09:05:04

Here's the Service Standard I was just talking about: https://www.gov.uk/service-manual/service-standard

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:05:47

Looking at that data on what problems matter, that's knowing what problem to actually solve, so much to learn from that

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:11

Thank you! Sorry about that! 🙏 ❤️

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Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)09:05:32

no issue, it's akin to the powerpoint live fails 😉

Jim Moverley09:05:42

quick call nora!

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Alex Ryan Burnett09:05:08

@mail832 not a question, just a massive shoutout to how incredible the whole GaaP platform is. Many times I've needed to go on http://Gov.UK for various things, and it's beautiful to see how the different services have the same look and feel! Major kudos for getting services stood up in short periods of time at the start of the pandemic, shows some great agile working there, despite the constant changing requirements/demands I'm sure!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:49

I wish I could say the same thing about US govt websites — some are fantastic, but others are… not as fantastic. Yet. 🙂

Alex Ryan Burnett09:05:35

I'm sure they'll get there! Hopefully there's some participants from the US Govt here today who can pick up a few tips 😉

Julia Harrison09:05:09

18F has a PaaS which was 'inspired by' ours, I believe, and ours has been similarly inspired by things they've done with their since - there are pockets of this stuff!

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]09:05:13

"Long lived teams", nice

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Matt Cobby (Director of Engineering, Deloitte)09:05:17

I like the approach of not being everything to everyone. There is an important cross over here with the philosophy that platforms should treat their users and consumers with a choice. If you mandate the platform, you have to be everything to everyone which comes with bloat and complexity.

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Julia Harrison09:05:08

That's such a good point. We aimed to be so good people want to use us first. No need for mandate in that case.

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Gianluca Manzi09:05:08

Have you found resistance to the change by other departments? How did the employees of different organisations take on this massive change? @mail832 #ask-the-speaker-plenary

Gianluca Manzi09:05:34

Was top-down approach used?

Julia Harrison09:05:50

Not really. We just... built our things and made them so good others wanted to use them 🙂

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Julia Harrison09:05:27

Other solutions still exist, and sometimes they meet the specific needs of their department better. But if the need is a common one, it should be much easier to use our thing than build a new one.

Fokko V.09:05:12

@mail832 It is amazing what you and your team have achieved! This is something many governments can learn from, e.g. the Dutch government... 😶

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Julia Harrison09:05:53

It's all in the open - both how we did it (https://gds.blog.gov.uk/) and most of the code 🙂

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Fokko V.09:05:34

I love that! This is really big 👍!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:55

“Great. Thanks. Yes. Do that then.” 🙂

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:32

“Don’t build things. Solve problems.”

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]09:05:37

"Start with just one person" 💯

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:53

“I want my feature. That’s what these OKRs are for. Give me my feature.” 🙂

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Adrienne Shulman09:05:30

i'm amazed at how many themes just keep coming up over and over in so many of these talks all week !!

Alex Ryan Burnett09:05:19

"Measure the benefit" 💯

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]09:05:40

Tattoo: measure the benefit

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:05:55

If you don't measure it, does it really exist? :thinking_face:

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)09:05:05

"Build a status tracking platform" "We built a status tracking platform" :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Julia Harrison09:05:22

I have seen OKRs that are basically this 🙈

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Julia Harrison09:05:29

"OKRs", sorry

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:45

cc @jonathansmart1 @mik 😆

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:10

@mail832 These are great examples from a fictitious organization! What an incredible imagination you have! How did you come up with those examples? 😆

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:01

It reminds me of another fictional organization, Parts something or other…😁

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:22

This is an excellent walkthrough of the OKR process.

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Julia Harrison09:05:07

Some of my proudest career moments have been the things we didn't build.

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]09:05:47

Great example of a focus on the OUTCOMES

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:14

(@jonathansmart1 holy cow, flipping awesome. Thank you, @mail832!)

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:50

“It’s not the users’ job to tell you what they need. It’s your job to find out.” Brilliant.

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Julia Harrison09:05:23

I borrowed that from a blog I read years ago - if anyone knows the source, please tell me so I can credit them!

Luke Rettig - Target09:05:00

one of the hardest parts about good Product Management practices, especially when teams are used to operating in a Project model

Chris09:05:11

A bit like Henry Ford saying if he had asked customers what they wanted they'll have said faster horses, not cars

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Julia Harrison09:05:06

hmmmm... the Apple approach is a bit different. I may be mis-characterising but I always read theirs as "it's not the customer's job to tell us what they want, it's our job to tell them" 😆

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:52

Great advice for Product Management practitioners

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]09:05:39

"Quoting word for word is powerful and can be a double edged sword"

Alex Ryan Burnett09:05:43

"Start with the problem, not the solution"

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:07

Quoting customers verbatim is easily weaponized, for good or for evil — I can definitely relate to that, on all sides of this, as the wielder, and the victim. 🙂

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Lauren Tomasello (Morgan Stanley, she/her)09:05:39

I love that these are published in the open for other orgs to learn from

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Julia Harrison09:05:59

I love that there's always something someone has written I can refer to 😁

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:57

I love all these graphs showing usage of these platforms blowing up, @mail832!

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David Read09:05:24

Public roadmaps ❤️

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Jim Moverley09:05:22

reminds me on github and their publicised OKRs 😄

Craig Cook - IBM09:05:38

"multi year funding". Sounds like a good idea.

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:44

Excellent session

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Philip Day09:05:49

This talk resonated with my favourite chapters in Melissa Perri's product book: 17. Problem Exploration 18. Solution Exploration https://www.amazon.co.uk/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management-ebook/dp/B07K3QBWG1/

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff09:05:49

👑 Government as a Platform and Covid-19 – How Shared Platforms Enabled New Services To Be Built In Under a Week from @mail832 is available for sharing here: https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=552759225

Julia Harrison09:05:51

Our careers site here: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/government-digital-service/about/recruitment (will also post more in the #hiring channel)

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]09:05:55

Thank you @mail832, awesome!

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)09:05:59

Thanks so much, @mail832!!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:04

Thank you, @mail832 !!! So great!!!

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Jim Moverley09:05:04

@mail832 have you some key inspirations that got you here?

Julia Harrison09:05:05

Wow, so many. This job specifically, it was seeing so many great presenters at MapCamp* from the public sector and hearing about not just the cool things they're doing, but also how far ahead of the curve some departments are on agile, user-centred design and a ton of adjacent practices. *the Wardley mapping event - if you don't know Wardley mapping it's very relevant for a lot of the hot topics at DOES

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Jim Moverley13:05:40

thankyou for your great response Julia + fantastic presentation

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Fokko V.09:05:04

Thanks a lot for this great session, really enjoyed it @mail832!

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Tim Wyatt09:05:04

👏Great presentation.

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David Read09:05:05

Public sector has all the best challenges

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems09:05:10

When you said 2 hours every 6 weeks, do you recommend watching that individually or with a team?

Julia Harrison09:05:09

With a team would be better so you can discuss what you're seeing, but watching playbacks solo is better than not hearing direct from your users

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Alex Ryan Burnett09:05:11

Absolutely incredible! So many ideas and inspiration from that session @mail832 - thanks for sharing and providing so many different links/resources too! 🙂

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Troy09:05:11

Great Talk…!!👏:skin-tone-5:

Ciaran Byrne09:05:14

Thank you @mail832! loving your work! 👏🙏

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution09:05:16

Thank you, @mail832! And now, our very own @genek and @steve773 are here!

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:20

That was an outstanding talk

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:20

Thank you, @mail832. That was amazing and I loved how focused and to the point the presentation was. So much to digest! 👏:skin-tone-5:

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Matt Cobby (Director of Engineering, Deloitte)09:05:28

Very well done, great outcomes for the UK @mail832

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:36

All those one-liners - love the way @mail832 presented the story. Thank you for sharing this with our community.

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Tim Wyatt09:05:38

😿 when the government can do this better than a lot of large enterprise...

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Julia Harrison09:05:51

You say that like it's a bad thing... like, we kind of have a big responsibility 😉

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Julia Harrison09:05:13

I think the real tragedy is that the expectation of government is so low 😢

Tim Wyatt09:05:08

I love the fact that GDS is good at this stuff! That large enterprise isn't is a tragedy.

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Tim Wyatt09:05:41

Also - blame the press, SIs, and a certain "NHS project" from the 90s.... ;)

Tim Wyatt09:05:54

BTW I have friends who worked as agile coaches at the Home Office and they loved it.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:45

Oh, my! Up next is @steve773 and me!! (Feels odd, introducing myself. 🙂

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Patrick Anderson - Tasktop - he/him09:05:35

That was fantastic @mail832 - not a word wasted. How did you pack all that in?! Top stuff. Plenty to chew on (and gave me hope in at least one government service!) 👏

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:41

Really looking forward to this talk, hearing the latest of this collaboration between you two!

Chris09:05:43

Glad to see a government leading in digital practices and bringing true help to people, Thanks @mail832 !

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)09:05:07

The insights were packed yet so easy to digest loved it! @mail832 👏🙌

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Steve Spear09:05:36

Good morning people! Thanks for watching and listening. Questions? Fire away.

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:17

So much to learn from you Steve, but @genek gives only 30 mins 😞

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:42

This case study is so interesting — in pharmaceutical development, where all the main characters have Ph.D.s.

Steve Spear09:05:22

Here’s a white paper on which my portion is based

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Chris09:05:12

no bow tie today? 😉

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Steve Smith09:05:15

I didn't recognise you without the bowtie, @steve773

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Steve Spear09:05:34

Hey covid. I’m just glad I remember to put on pants each day. My side kick Wilson doesn’t always remind me.

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Steve Smith09:05:23

You could be wearing pyjamas 👀

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:42

We’re getting an education on pharmaceutical machinery. Boundary-spanning!

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:16

Hit molecule appears a little analogous to software engineering proof-of-concept.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:44

Totally — I suggested to @steve773 that we use the term “wireframing” or “low fidelity mockups and storyboards.”

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:05:54

Already loving the talk, engages the brain seeing the applications to my own situations 🙂

Steve Spear09:05:14

@saket.kulkarni I think so. It’s more than conceputal, but certainly not workable.

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:18

They’re doing a value stream analysis!

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)09:05:29

Value Stream Mapping in pharmaceutical R&D? Awesome

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)09:05:44

Ah, @jeff.gallimore - you beat me to it

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Steve Spear09:05:29

@jeff.gallimore Yes…and…which we mention in the white paper attached above. Value stream tuypically focuses on the nodes on the pathway. Here, we’ll see they start addressing the linking connections between the nodes. The frequency and bandwidth of communication over those links. @bernard.voos v

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:03

Really interesting to look at this through the lens of information flow

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:03

You’re doing a great job setting up the parallel to other industries we’ve already seen. Concepts of lean and flow come into play everywhere.

Bernard Voos (FedEx)09:05:17

@mik - so they were not organized for flow!

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Craig Cook - IBM09:05:25

Oh, is the desire to publish scientific papers part of this puzzle?

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:38

I’m super interested in seeing how this plays out. 🙂

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Steve Spear09:05:42

@saket.kulkarni Yes! Because across lean agile etc is the challenge--getting the collaborative whole greater than the creative parts!

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:30

Sounds like the culture would be more Westrum type bureaucratic than generative.

Steve Spear09:05:35

@bernard.voos @mik Yes…and…not organized for RELATIONSHIPS…not organized for having the collaborative creative communication.

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Steve Spear09:05:09

@jtf I think this is generative both in terms of who needs to be in discussion with whom and within those discussions

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]09:05:20

Is social graph analysis relevant here? Seeing who is talking to who and where the real points of influence are?

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:22

I’m not sure it’s relevant, but I’m drawing parallels in my mind to what I’ve read about how development on COVID vaccines progressed in the past year compared to previous vaccine development.

Steve Spear09:05:45

BTW: for more…check out our newsletter at…https://conta.cc/2RplVoT

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:03

@steve773 I agree, generative once you start having the conversations. I meant bureaucratic before when people weren't talking to each other

AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)09:05:26

What is the connection to https://www.seetosolve.com/ at the bottom of the slide?

Steve Spear09:05:48

@jonathansmart1 @saket.kulkarni @chris.gallivan278 yes to all you said. In the white paper, we offer some speculation on how important having focused workflows for vaccine development was in order to have high speed high yield collaboration

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:11

Not that it was the bureaucracy preventing the conversations, rather that you had the same information flow as if there had been barriers to conversations.

Steve Spear09:05:02

@jtf even worse. There was no bureaucracy forcing the conversation. Whatever integrating routines and processes were first created, those had withered. So, that’s why you got these isolated silos and then silos within silos.

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:31

You could impose bureaucracy to encourage (force?) conversations and in some places that would be a step toward generative… 🤯

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:21

That sounds more like leadership than bureaucracy, but perhaps the common element is "authority".

Steve Spear09:05:40

What you’ll see here is the emergence of a (temporary) routine/social map so make clear where the conversations should be occuring.

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:59

Steps 4 and 5 look a lot like the sorts of steps we see in scaling agile (irrespective of framework).

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:24

Withered is a great term! It works well with the analogy of culture like gardening. You need to cultivate and nurture those interactions. And the best cases might be like permacuture where you create self-sustaining systems.

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Christian Kullmann, Eurowings Digital, Automation Professional (He/Him)09:05:44

Was it easy to get the biologists and chemists to talk to one another again, did they need a little push or were they resistant?

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Steve Spear09:05:04

@logankd Thanks for the See To Solve Question. WE created two software products to support the high velocity learning behavior we’re describing. On the website is our ‘alert,’ basically a portable andon to call immediate attention to difficulty. FLOW, is a tool for creating these relationship maps. Happy to share more off line.

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AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)09:05:14

yes, do you have a birds of feather of happy hour setup?

Steve Spear09:05:44

@logankd Thanks. I’ll hang here (or in birds) for about another 30 minutes. Dentist appointment after that 😞

AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)09:05:03

this conference is great, there's so much stuff going on and to learn

AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)09:05:37

I'll go into gather/birds and find you (after a short break). Hopefully others will as well

AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)10:05:37

I apologize, I didn't realize there was another session right away (thought there was a break). Good luck with the dentist and thanks for your session. I'll check out the website

AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)10:05:13

I can imagine how having a virtual andon cord would be helpful. I like how that follows the Toyota lean idea. A client I'm working with is in constant fire fighting mode.

Matt Cobby (Director of Engineering, Deloitte)09:05:24

I feel there is such a natural alignment of the shared language of Team Topologies and the subtlety of relationships in value stream mapping.

Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:27

@steve773 Have other industries like drug discovery tried creating cross functional teams across these domains?

Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:27

@steve773 Have other industries like drug discovery tried creating cross functional teams across these domains?

Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:11

This seems quite a bit like the tayloristic waterfall processes in software

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:49

I think @steve773 has shared the story about Toyota’s development of the Prius. I think that was another example.

Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:38

We found many of these examples in dev vs testing vs ops. It turns out when you get those folks on the same team it creates a lot more flow but a shared responsibility. No longer is writing code the only thing a dev is focused on. They work with test and ops to create code that can be tested and operated...

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Steve Spear09:05:44

@scott.prugh Hey Scott. I think this is the counter of waterfall in that the frequency, speed, and granularity of feedback is WAY up, and much earlier in the creative endeavor. The main failure mode of waterfall and similar styles is the frequency, latency, clarity, etc. of feedback to inform course correction.

Philip Day09:05:35

The D-M-T cycles are slower in the Pilot v Benchmark, is that good? (19 in 6 months where previously was 60 in 13 months)

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant09:05:54

Tough targets working as a forcing function for optimization?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:03

"change the conversations and you change the culture" < 🙂

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Steve Spear09:05:38

@christian.kullmann Funny question! Turns out, they liked each other, but had little idea what the other did. At one point, the chemists were talking amongst themselves as if the bio lab was just pippette squeezing drones. Finally, one interceded and said, “You KNOW I also have a Phd!!!!”

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Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)09:05:41

@scott.prugh we've been trying with varied success in the O&G sector as there are a huge number of specialist disciplines

Steve Spear09:05:00

@kapoor.vaidik Great point! Only the paranoid survive!

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:18

Brilliant background about research & 5-10 years for vaccination- is this a normal cycle? So much less time than anyone predicted, now so many vaccines for current one

Chris Gallivan, Stellantis, Value Stream Architect09:05:32

its one thing to be on the same team, its another thing to work together

Steve Spear09:05:40

@philipday D-M-T…maybe slower but SO MUCH higher yield. One-third the cycles in half the time to better outcomes

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:00

“Your organization may be actually fighting you… and it’s YOUR FAULT (as the leader)“. 😆

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Steve Spear09:05:19

@philipday And, those were ‘cheaper’ cycles, more thought experiments within and across silos, fewer having to actually make stuff (time and money).

Philip Day09:05:49

Thanks I think this is relevant in a lot of contexts Have good priors -> fewer cycles to ultimate solution discovery

Philip Day09:05:35

Possibly this is an important counterpoint to the unharnessed feature factory

Steve Spear09:05:52

@chris.gallivan278 Yes! Check out the white paper (posted above) where we draw analogies with Team of Teams.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:01

“Everyone is trapped in their cones, that prevent people from doing integrated problem solving with others outside of their functional speciality.”

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Steve Spear09:05:34

Here’s another newsletter link on similar issues of accelerated creative learning, but different field entirely. https://conta.cc/3u4gwRI

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:41

I was wondering if there was a link in the language!

Steve Spear09:05:09

@saket.kulkarni link in the language?

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)09:05:57

Gene’s comment on “Thinking fast and slow” by Kahneman. I thought I noticed a link.

Dylan Costigan - DevOps and Infrastructure Lead at Cubic Telecom09:05:05

Those org charts are remarkably reminiscent of datacentre networking evolution. Improving the flow of work is not too far from improving the flow of packets!

Sophie Weston09:05:48

Donald Reinertsen talks about this in The Principles of Product Development Flow

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Markus Lauttia09:05:07

cross-functional teams are great for solving the problems within the value stream, but there's still the challenge of cross-team collaboration. At least with us, there's quite often some need for asking help from another team.

Markus Lauttia09:05:03

The point being that no matter what kind of organization structure we have, there's always need for communication 😄

Michael Bird - Senior Architect, UPMC09:05:01

Yes, so you don't solve the same problem in each team.

Markus Lauttia09:05:53

yes, and also there's more often than not a situation that the cross-functional team does not possess all the skills needed, but some other team has the knowledge already. So some kind of cross-pollination is needed

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:42

@ds has a great story of working with a biotech firm and how eye opening it was that the mouse lifecycle becomes a hard limit on cycle time. (Need to grow the right mouse strain for a test.) Very different from software!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:49

From control theory: • Ops favors ◦ Frequency ◦ Latency • Planning favors ◦ Granularity (detail) ◦ Accuracy (fidelity)

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:05:22

adds control theory to study list....

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)09:05:58

@genek any recommended reads for that? :thinking_face:

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:28

Leadership - Eyes on, Hands off love that statement about delegation.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:47

(I remember some control theory from Electrical Engineering junior year. Holy smokes, can’t even remember.. Will search for you later! 🙂

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Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)09:05:15

"Outliers" I remember was a great book that covered some of this on CRM

Ivan Krnic (Director of Engineering at CROZ)09:05:19

I loved listening to this case in Idealcast!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:28

…and that is a definition of a bad day… 🙂

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)09:05:35

@genek Love this story - amazing what they accomplished on that flight.

Bernard Voos (FedEx)09:05:20

Favorite quote: > Sioux City Approach: “United Two Thirty-Two Heavy, the wind’s currently three six zero at one one; three sixty at eleven. You’re cleared to land on any runway.” > Haynes: “[laughter] Roger. [laughter] You want to be particular and make it a runway, huh?”

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:02

PS: Reading the Wikipedia entry on UA 232 was my first time I’ve found an egregious, factual error in the Wikpedia entry. There’s actually some disagreements on how many DC-10 trainers there were on the flight, due to a transcription error of the cockpit transcripts — I intend to make my first Wikipedia proposed edit ever. 🙂

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:33

@genek: interesting to consider how these time cycles and domains of Planning, Operations, and Improvement to the "three gaps" of Clausewitz, the gaps of Knowledge, Alignment, and Effects. Planning does what it can to make the most to close the knowledge and alignment gaps so that Operations can be as effective as possible. Improvement looks back (like incident analysis) to understand what gaps were exposed and to feed that back into future cycles (ala OODA loop).

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Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)09:05:53

I need to read up on Boyd, Great story

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:05:57

(The effects gap is why you need the people in Operations to have the agency to respond to what actually happens in the moment.)

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:33

Wow — tantalizing, @jtf. It’s time for another one of our conversations to discuss!! (Next week?).

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Vlad Ukis10:05:46

That would be a great conversation to have, indeed! Thanks for drawing the parallels, @jtf

Steve Spear10:05:13

KEY POINT OF WHAT @genek IS SAYING: There’s such a profound shared understanding of standards that the extra guy can slot in, they can adapt (add/subtract) from existing routines, etc.

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:05:44

Shows the value of Doctrine.

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)10:05:20

At least they had the duct tape! Universal interface

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)10:05:09

Standards and a common body of knowledge really help bridge gaps in communication :thinking_face: Makes the work of ITREV really important for us to grow!

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Steve Spear10:05:18

Long and short: standards don’t have to be the enemy! They’re our friend if we treat them as our best known approach for addressing a situation. Then, our changes are on the increment, on the edge, not whole cloth starting from scratch.

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Simon10:05:31

I hear cynefin here?

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Jim Moverley10:05:03

@jonathansmart1 commented yesterday on getting something into a standard, to help make it stick - can be useful tool to ensure a company goes the right direction

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)10:05:47

Related to your key point above: I think there’s also a very big aspect discussed in other presentations these past few days…that of competence. Besides having standards and a common language, a common understanding of the domain space is important. Especially for the creative application of ideas in the heat of the moment (the pilots and trainers in the cockpit, the Apollo 13 engineers in that room, etc.).

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:05:41

I think of this as being shared Doctrine, something that was pointed out to my Wardley: https://medium.com/wardleymaps/doctrine-8bb0015688e5

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)10:05:01

Thanks for the link @jtf! I’ll have a look.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:07

Kotter's 8th step: institute change

Steve Spear10:05:05

Ditto @philipp.boeschen650

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:06

Another example of where a vast expertise is tapped — Mark Whatney trapped on Mars, and all engineers on earth helping him get home. He’s no longer solving problems alone, instead he’s backed up by thousands of engineers on Earth!! In the book/movie, “The Martian!!“” cc @steve773

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Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)10:05:26

I do think there may be lessons from the drilling industry and how remote collaboration centres to provide operational control of remote drilling operations have looked to address some of these points - rooms filled with mixed discipline specialists

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:43

(Is it Dr. Mark Watney, or just Mr. Mark Watney?). He’s a biologist, right? Botanist?

Steve Spear10:05:27

PROBLEM: integrating routines decay and we fall into silos and silos in silos. SOLUTION; Map flows to see RELATIONSHIPS to enable the collaborative conversations.

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff10:05:39

🎯 Fast and Slow Integrated Problem Solving Structures from @genek & @steve773 is available for sharing here: https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=552759240

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Steve Spear10:05:46

Thanks folks!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:07

Holy smokes!!! Upcoming Idealcast is amazing: @steve773 and I learn how Portland Vaccination clinic increased vaccinations from 2K/day to 8K/day!! 2 weeks from now. We interviewed Trent Green, COO, Legacy Health. Was awesome!

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Lauren Tomasello (Morgan Stanley, she/her)10:05:40

Love the Idealcast -- so quickly my favourite podcast!!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:16

Thank you, @steve773!!!

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Steve Spear10:05:33

you’re the man, @genek

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Ciaran Byrne10:05:38

Thank you @genek and @steve773 - more serious food for thought! 👏

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:54

Ah, up next is a DevOps Confession! As someone had requested yesterday! 🙂

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:27

@genek “Good practice comes from bad experience. And experience comes from bad practice.”

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Andreas Baernthaler - TNG Technology Consulting10:05:10

@genek and @steve773: Thank you for so clearly highlighting the core of DevOps in your talk.

Steve Spear10:05:24

@andreas.baernthaler Thanks Andreas. Let’s follow up here in the Slack or by e mail. <mailto:Steve@HVELLC.com|Steve@HVELLC.com>. Please grab the whjite paper (above) and check out some of the newsletter links. Very best!

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:58

@genek The power of coaching! It’s like a superpower.

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:31

So many could relate well with this DevOps confession - cc @genek Thanks for sharing, I am looking for a wipe

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:48

My favorite book on coaching: https://boxofcrayons.com/the-coaching-habit-book/

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Dubro - Conti Tires10:05:14

Until this minute I was moving the idea of releasing a regular internal newsletter of my teams achievements to senior management back and forth in my head...now, thanks to @genek words, I think I know what to do :)

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Michael Kutik - SAP SE10:05:15

@genek this confession resonates with me a lot, there is so much you can learn about yourself by looking at what you think about (project on) others. Sometimes it is you who has to start building trust into yourself

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)10:05:25

Titles only make it easier. 🙂

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:03

"I know I think I am taking the company forward" - reminds me of Jeffrey Snover session back in DOES 2018 LV

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)10:05:10

Redshirts come with a variety of titles, but they all share the passion for moving the mission forward and see each other as peers.

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Saurabh Singh10:05:24

@genek -- Same confession 🙂 Dont need title to be Influencer

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)10:05:48

👏 good segment! Really refreshing

Gianluca Manzi10:05:58

@genek - Those confessions are gold nuggets! Thank you!

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)10:05:59

Thanks for sharing @genek. That confession resonates strongly with me.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:42

❤️ all! Thx for kind words! 🙂

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Rahul Chautel - Cornerstone OnDemand10:05:43

Thank you @genek It really resonates with many of us and personally it has provided better dose of confidence and also the areas we need to work by making teams’ work more visible 🙂 🙏

Ann Perry - IT Revolution10:05:58

📣 Coming up in a few minutes, @ronwestrum will talk about Information Flow Cultures!

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Steve Smith10:05:43

It's not often I say "I'm looking forward to this" after so many past conferences... I'm looking forward to this! thanks @ronwestrum for all your work, it's been a huge help/inspiration to me over the years 🙇

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:48

and for everyone. I came to know only via @nicolefv presentation in one of our DOES / DORA report

Ron Westrum10:05:12

Thanks, Steve!

Ron Westrum10:05:18

I was made aware of DevOps by the 2014 report

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Steve Smith11:05:00

Without your work Ron, we'd all still be stumbling around asking ourselves why some companies have a "better culture" than others, without even knowing what those words meant. Thank you again

nicolefv15:05:57

I'm about to study @ronwestrum’s culture across global teams (including both enterprise and open source!), and i'm so happy and honored to be able to continue and extend his brilliant work. thank you again for all of your foundational and ground-breaking work!

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Steve Smith15:05:31

Oh wow I didn't know you were here @nicolefv, how are you? 👋 🙂

Steve Smith15:05:43

Great to hear you're doing more work on culture 👍

nicolefv15:05:13

i'm lurking in some shadows 😉

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)10:05:54

I'm not sure how to handle all of this information flowing into me this morning 😅

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:15

Let it "Flow" naturally

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Vlad Ukis10:05:03

Managin Flow is important here too 🙂

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Ron Westrum10:05:57

Jeffrey Fredrick, I used to read a lot of accident reports in transportation!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:10

Holy cow! Up next is the FAMOUS Dr. @ronwestrum!!! Anyone who has read the State of DevOps Research studies that I did with Dr. @nicolefv and @jez from 2013-2019 will likely be familiar Westrum Organizational Typology Model!

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:09

From 2013 then @ronwestrum that one slide information flow appeared in so many DevOps presentations. Unfortunately, some are still struggling with this.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:42

It’s difficult to overstate how excited I am that he’s speaking to us here!

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Adrienne Shulman10:05:21

listening to @ronwestrum LIVE? with all of you my new friends? Pinching myself to make sure this isn't a dream 😍

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Ron Westrum16:05:55

The pleasure is mine! Best, Ron W

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Ron Westrum10:05:04

Avast!

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Olav Maassen (Tasktop)10:05:13

"Information is life blood for organizations" - I like that analogy.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:18

Project Aristotle at Google!

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)10:05:21

"Star Trek is the perfect model" 😎 🚀 🛸

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Ron Westrum10:05:19

I believe this is from Discovery

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Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:05:48

Thank God for Project Aristotle - when we look back it would have moved the needle for teams in the tech industry to get to healthy and happy dynamics so much as compared to the thankless job the academia was doing before it

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Chris Gallivan, Stellantis, Value Stream Architect10:05:18

I want that job title

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Dubro - Conti Tires10:05:33

Awesome example...especially having in mind the unbelievable crimes that von Braun was able to do during WWII..

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Ron Westrum10:05:18

true enough, but he saved us space program

Dubro - Conti Tires10:05:37

sure. It's not about the person, it is about the environment

Ron Westrum10:05:28

there were many missile programs, but van Braun's was the real thing

Philip Day10:05:41

How long did the rivet -> welding migration take? And should they have shut the building during that time?

Christian Kullmann, Eurowings Digital, Automation Professional (He/Him)10:05:51

How did they get the newspapers to hold the story? That sounds like something reporters nowadays would be dying to blurt out in an instance?

Ron Westrum10:05:02

about 4 months, I believe

Ron Westrum10:05:41

Don't know why they held it, different world back

Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)10:05:41

"Culture is a form of capital" 💯 🙌

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Sophie Weston10:05:29

That can degrade with rough handling!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:49

This is an amazing analysis from @ronwestrum on how Boeing may have lost their incredible engineering culture after they acquired McDonnell Douglas… So full of insights.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:05

This Boeing story doesn't have a happy ending... Reverse takeover by McDonnell Douglas

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Philip Day10:05:43

Is this in BVSSH? I've read it somewhere...

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:30

Yes it is a case study in the book

Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)10:05:07

This is amazing: Culture + Maestro

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Ron Westrum10:05:15

So full of awful things

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:28

That face!

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:04

Sad story. HQ relocated hundreds of miles away from engineering

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:39

Is all this leading to the 737MAX disaster?

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:40

My internalization of the technical/technological maestro: • high energy • high standards • great in the large • great in the small • loves walking the floor So good!!!

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)10:05:20

Really interesting how that overlaps with a lot of what Simon Sinek is "preaching" about leaders :thinking_face:

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Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:05:50

Happy teams ARE family - all teams with high Psychological Safety describe it as such

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:05:30

That doesn't match with my experience. It is often the case, but I've also worked with happy teams that wouldn't say they were a family. They would say they were high performance, and that was the common identity.

Philip Day10:05:20

Stonecipher sounds like a Bond villain

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Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)10:05:37

Agree - many examples of the world's highest performing teams describe their teams as family

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)10:05:42

Takes one key leader to make things worse and exceptional leadership to fix it.

Ron Westrum10:05:03

also called a "hobby shop" by the miitary division

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:16

Now I really want to read how the business press covered the Boeing acquisition of McD at the time — I’d love to hear what their aspirations were, and what the hoped for outcomes were…

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:31

@ronwestrum I’m also interested in how the FAA let this mess happen

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:42

Yes. Lack of psychological safety. Culture of fear

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:39

Criminal case settled out of court recently. Boeing blames two ex test pilots...

Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)10:05:42

Generative dialogue is critical for successful teams and only happens in safe to speak up environments

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Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:05:58

SO cool that we got to hear the backstory of what caused Boeing to have the now famous breakdown in Psychological Safety that led to the catastrophe

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)10:05:59

The feeling of "..what else I don't know" definitely makes people unhappy!

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:01

@bernard.voos FAA were implicated

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)10:05:10

@ronwestrum how can we get ahead of the problem and convince future leaders to care?

Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)10:05:51

Show them how it works in practice!

Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)10:05:48

The types of executives I've worked with either care or are closed minded to any ideas but their own and are not interested in learning.

Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)10:05:58

Focus on the advocates initially and bring the other type along through data and performance. Some won't come on the journey but they may not prosper in the long term

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)10:05:27

We should have a beer about that. I've some specific examples where the right answer was to fold and move. 🙂

Ron Westrum16:05:26

I kind of think people care or they don't. But some people change later in life. Ron W

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Ron Westrum16:05:28

As for having a beer about folding and moving, I am all for it! Ron W

Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)17:05:45

I'm headed to the bar in an hour. I'd love to discuss it.

Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)18:05:10

@ffion @ronwestrum I'm at the bar. This would be a great conversation. :)

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Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)18:05:35

Ah @bryan.finster486 that would have been amazing but I’m in prime parenting zone right now!

Christoph Hagedorn10:05:23

Thank you very much

Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:25

So amazing to hear you talk, @ronwestrum ! Thanks for everything

Ron Westrum16:05:53

The pleasure is mine. Ron W

Chris Gallivan, Stellantis, Value Stream Architect10:05:34

down the street from you Ron in Saline 🙂

Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)10:05:37

Wow, thanks, @ronwestrum . Culture + Maestro is so clear and parsimonious 🙂

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AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)10:05:54

How do you "find out if your culture is working?

AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)10:05:06

measure sooner, safer happier?

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Ron Westrum11:05:42

Monitoring a culture is doable, but it's also a look in the rear view mirror. The hard thing is to find leaders will to create a great culture.

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Ron Westrum10:05:59

holycow, Chris!

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:05:17

If you enjoyed this and haven't yet listened to the Idealcast with @ronwestrum check it out: https://itrevolution.com/the-idealcast-episode-17/

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:32

@ronwestrum It was so fun to watch all five hours of the “21st Century Jet - Building the Boeing 777” — one of my favorite parts was how Boeing gained the ETOPS certification, expanding to 180 minutes. It seemed like the opposite of “regulatory capture.” It was so good! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oyWZjdXxlw

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)10:05:44

@ronwestrum Perhaps this is more a question for a psychologist, but do you have any theories as to why certain people are drawn to particular organizational cultures? It sounds like everyone should want a generative culture but people (like Stonecipher) seem to actually prefer another culture!

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Ron Westrum10:05:58

I liked the chapter called "the sum of its parts"

Christian Rudolph (TUIGroup - Head Of DevOps Transformation)10:05:11

@ronwestrum any ideas how to bring multiple "working" cultures together during mergers and acquisition ?

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Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:05:28

I know you didn't ask me but I would say focus on Psychological Safety at the team/bubble level not try to make the whole org PS at once

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Ron Westrum11:05:31

Duena Blomstein, but reaction patterns are often sent down from the top. In Its Your Ship it was the captain, but reaction can be the same in much larger organizations (think Mulally).

Ron Westrum10:05:34

Ah, who comes and why? But when do they come?

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:05:40

This is what makes @genek such a remarkable thinker - he's genuinely curious about even the most obscure of cogs

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:17

Which cog are you referring to? 😆

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:05:25

When you ask stuff it's clear you're genuinely interested in all sausages and how they're made indiscriminately of flavour not with any agenda in mind - just extreme open-mindedness - you know this stop fishing :P:)

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Michael Bird - Senior Architect, UPMC10:05:00

@ronwestrum Great talk. Culture really is key to attracting and maintaining talent.

Ron Westrum16:05:57

I absolutely agree. Ron W

Ron Westrum16:05:36

For want of a better word, there are people who are drawn in an authoritarian direction. I kind of think Stonecipher might be one of them. But the real contrast, I think is between those who have a mission like makimg planes, and those who just want to make money. I find the former attractive, and have always been drawn to them. and the latter boring, although I understand them. When I did the book on the Sidewinder missile, I was deeply impressed by the great majority of those I interviewed, and in the end, identified with them. Ron W

Michael Bird - Senior Architect, UPMC16:05:43

True, the most driven people are the ones doing what they love, not what necessarily pays them the most.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:29

FYI a recent article on the lack of psychological safety at Boeing: https://itrevolution.com/lack-of-psychological-safety-at-boeing/

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:34

PS: Part 2 of my Westrum interview on The Idealcast is being released today — it may be already up. Another 2 hours of amazing insights. I talk about the amazing ETOPS certification and test protocol there, and the genuine creativity of the 777 team to gain it, with full confidence of FAA and pilots union!!!

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)10:05:19

Yep. It’s queued up in my podcast player. 😊

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:05:45

"this was obviously a dangerous condition" < well, it was obvious after the accidents happened

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Ron Westrum10:05:17

two books about the later book culture, both with "turmoil" in title

Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)10:05:35

are there parallels here with the Ford Pinto? thing?

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:35

Ah, Rabinow’s Law #23. 🙂

Tim Wyatt10:05:52

@ronwestrum The KLM Tenerife disaster is a classic case of pathalogical culture

Ron Westrum16:05:32

OK, if you say so, you probably know more than I do about it! Ron W

Ron Westrum10:05:56

Ford Pinto is more complex

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:05:05

good tie into Nora Jones's talk yesterday about learning from incident analysis. at least the airline industry learned. the software industry hasn't been serious enough to learn the need for the equivalent of CRM.

Ron Westrum10:05:18

Tenerife was a bureaucratic screw up

Jim Moverley10:05:34

well said about lousey leaders @ronwestrum

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:53

To repeat: If you have a dope at the top, you will have, or soon will have, dopes all the way down

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Ron Westrum10:05:04

Nora Jones was right on target

Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)10:05:05

it's amazing how few people it takes to degrade the whole system

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Chris10:05:39

And probably the higher, the lesser it takes...

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Sophie Weston10:05:42

Cultural 'broken window' syndrome?

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David Sol10:05:12

What a great talk! I need to show it up at work!

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Dubro - Conti Tires10:05:46

@ronwestrum I really like your very down-to-earth examples and very clear descriptions. As I come from a sociological tradition rooted in Talcot Parsons and Luhman, would you say, that there is an obvious link between those approaches to organizations and your approach? Maybe some Literature to mention?

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Ron Westrum16:05:20

The greatest book on organizations I ever read was William Foote Whyte, Organizational Behavior. He knew his stuff. As for my own orientation, it could be seen as a permutation of the X vs. Y theory, but there is a long tradition in sociology of humanistic management. What really got me going, though, was the business school stuff on high reliability culture, the exact path by which I got to my current view was long and twisty. I have been working on this most of my adult life. Best, Ron

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Ron Westrum10:05:07

Talcott Parsons, yuk!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:21

@jtf The “socio” in “sociotechnical systems”

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Chris Gallivan, Stellantis, Value Stream Architect10:05:54

that would explain why leaders resist change

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:16

(This paper repeats this cross-population study, and they found the same effects two decades later.)

Ron Westrum10:05:36

Best literature is in CRM area. Marmot best book is Status Syndrome. Very influential person

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:06

(I hope someone is keeping track of and compiling all these book recommendations! I’m having trouble keeping up!!! 🙏

Philip Day10:05:30

Yep - they are scraping things with the 🔖 emoji

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AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)10:05:45

how about for the full conference!

Philip Day10:05:58

Yep for the full conference

Philip Day10:05:08

Keep tagging! Articles too

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:40

@jtf I think if people tag the messages with 📖 emoji, we can scrape them after the conference to help. cc @arne.brasseur @jeff.gallimore

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Philip Day10:05:33

I think it's 🔖

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:05:08

and yes, I think it is 🔖

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:43

@ronwestrum We’ve been tracking sick days as a metric of team health (without showing this to the teams of course!) and found it is very useful.

Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:28

You have to be very careful with it of course

Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:18

Actually people who were getting close to burning out started taking sick days more frequently and we were able to help them out

Bernard Voos (FedEx)10:05:06

Burn-out has been a real issue since the pandemic started

Adrienne Shulman10:05:00

Has anyone had experience seeing leaders evolve their style? I'm such a believer in growth mindset I'd like to believe that even dopes can change. I've sort of had this experience, there was a command and control leader who created a bureaucratic culture who tried to change... it was just slower and harder and didn't quite get all the way there.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:05:59

We had a great example of that at TIM where one of the founders made a complete change of style. Really notable.

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Ali Shahadat - Engineering at Wise10:05:14

I find the more experience someone has already, the longer it takes or harder it is for them to evolve their style and change their mindset. Often times, there is a foundation to their way of thinking that has been built up over many years, which is very difficult to completely move away from. I've seen plenty of evolution but never really revolution.

Adrienne Shulman10:05:15

this makes me so happy to hear

Adrienne Shulman10:05:49

@ali.shahadat965 yeah that makes sense

Adrienne Shulman10:05:51

@jtf was this leader familiar with westrums work? was it intentional? were they aware of their transformation/evolution ?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations11:05:17

No he wasn't, but I was. 🙂 Yes he was aware. The sequence was we introduced the theories of Chris Argyris into the product development organization and improved the relationships and productivity there. The improvements were obvious. Then there were some incidents in the commercial team and it was clear that trust & respect were low. The founders suggested that the commercial team might benefit from the same changes as we'd made in product development. I said sure, but if were were going to introduce it to the commercial team the exec team itself should get trained first. After the training for the exec team this founder became a convert and helped lead the training for the rest of the company. It was the success at TIM in making these dramatic changes, and at all levels of the company, that gave me the drive to write Agile Conversations. acon

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Adrienne Shulman11:05:52

got it got it!! thank you!

Ron Westrum10:05:12

There was cover of Economist, "the trouble with mergers" not suitable for mixed audience

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:05:22

The story of social safety and missiles ❤️

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:05:25

high performers tend to get punished < 😾

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Ron Westrum10:05:53

Jeffrey, yes, Cinderella syndrome!

Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)10:05:02

Lots of aeronautical creativity over generations in Mojave. Scaled Composites and Spaceship One, test flights at Edwards, Stratolaunch, etc. It's the Silicon Valley for aviation.

Ron Westrum10:05:32

China Lake was special

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:20

(PS: on a personal note: if you’re like me, you may find it surreal how Dr. @ronwestrum is here, answering questions that we have and commenting. If you had told me that this would happen one year ago, I would have laughed at you.)

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Sabina Kamber Salamanca (Lead Agile Coach, Vodafone)10:05:31

It just shows "unimaginable is possible" if you just keep going and holding onto the bigger Vision. Bravo @genek for making this happen 🎉

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:32

Thank you Gene for making this happen and our @nicolefv for introducing Dr via email intro to you (I remember you said this)

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Alfredo Colas10:05:51

@ronwestrum @genek Building on the 'dope principle', a colleague of mine always said: "A players get A players in their teams. B players get C and D players".

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Ron Westrum16:05:09

I agree! Ron W

Ron Westrum10:05:07

so true

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:19

A big round of applause for Dr. @ronwestrum. THANK YOU!!!

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:25

Thanks for being here and sharing @ronwestrum!

Ron Westrum16:05:39

My pleasure! Ron Westrum

Jim Moverley10:05:26

👏👏

Jim Moverley10:05:29

amazing!!! 🙂

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)10:05:41

👏:skin-tone-5:👏:skin-tone-5:👏:skin-tone-5:

Chris10:05:47

👏👏👏👏

Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff10:05:04

👏 Information Flow Cultures from Dr.@ronwestrum is available for sharing here: https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=552759266

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Ron Westrum10:05:08

my heart is full

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Dubro - Conti Tires10:05:11

👏

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Tim Wyatt10:05:32

👏 👏 👏

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:42

Up next: @jonathansmart1 on OKRs!

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:08

A tough gig to follow such amazing speakers and thought leaders!

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)10:05:14

OK OKRs and NOT OK OKRs :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)10:05:30

Hi @jonathansmart1 looking forward to your talk 😊

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:34

Inspriation from Radiohead

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)10:05:40

Me too. I set an alarm for this one.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:42

OK Computer. OKNOTOK

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:37

More searches for OKR than portfolio management

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:58

It's all due to DOES 🙂

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:17

Where all good trends start! 🙌

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Andreas Baernthaler - TNG Technology Consulting10:05:12

@jonathansmart1 Are there monthly oscillations in the Google trends chart?

Tim Wyatt10:05:50

Certified OKR Practitioner...... 😆

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Tim Wyatt10:05:50

Certified OKR Practitioner...... 😆

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Adrian (Tasktop)10:05:22

sorry, I misheard you there @jonathansmart1

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:01

Certified Real Agile Professional - I remember this 🙂 CRAP - now COKR

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Christian Kullmann, Eurowings Digital, Automation Professional (He/Him)10:05:11

Sounds like an arrest waiting to happen. “Shoooo … Offisher … how bout dem OKRs, huh?”

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:15

Mindset is SOOOO important

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:32

Key difference between KPI and KRs here. KRs measure movement

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:04

I sense a new Ignite talk from @jonathansmart1 coming next year, extending upon the CRAP certification. 🙂

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Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)10:05:08

need leading and lagging indicators +

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:05:12

I am multitasking by booking everybody on the management team for a chat about OKRs (again). So current for me.

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Erik Sackman10:05:14

would you say that mindset is an outcome of good OKRs, or that you need the right mindset to create good OKRs

Erik Sackman10:05:14

so related to culture (generative)

AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)10:05:20

this would have been a good day 1 talk. There were a lot of mentions of OKRs, but I didn't have the background or knowledge of OKRs before

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Craig Cook - IBM10:05:58

Would you say "profit" is a lagging indicator? i.e. focus your efforts on things other than profit?

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:05:58

If you manage to meet your purpose, the profits will catch you.

Philip Day10:05:05

PnL is the ultimate validator though

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:05:57

@philipday Over what timespan? A quarter?

Philip Day11:05:46

Context is king! An exercise for the reader 🙂 I guess it depends on the scale - a modest feature upgrade to the product might see (modest) gains in a timescale of months A major strategic initiative might not fully show up in the PnL for years, via indirect things it has enabled

Philip Day11:05:18

Ah we're on the slide now showing nested OKRs with different timescales

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:06

Yes. And lagging measures can't be too lagging, otherwise there is less causality

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:28

My rule of thumb is no more than one quarter past a quarterly OKR

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:41

Otherwise who knows the cause and effect???

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:07

Weekly profit is a benign lagging indicator 😄

Philip Day12:05:15

Attribution is a science and an art, hard but critical

Sophie Weston10:05:16

"benevolent dictatorship" 😢

Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)10:05:24

OKRs seem very easy to do "incorrectly"

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:33

Yes,,, I still see the “underpromise and overdeliver” conservativism in OKR settings… because of the risk-averse conditioning from MBOs.

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:46

Andy Grove -> John Doerr -> Google -> Horses

Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)10:05:54

Wow, I remember IMBOs from my internships at Intel in the late 1980s 🙂

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Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)10:05:12

Top down meets bottom up +

Andreas Baernthaler - TNG Technology Consulting10:05:39

@jonathansmart1 You mentioned that one should have both leading and lagging measurements, right?

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:50

@andreas.baernthaler Yes

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley10:05:58

So you're saying our annual top down goals cascade could be improved?

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Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)10:05:03

in IT it seems like a challenge to talk about outcomes over activities, so ingrained

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Adrienne Shulman10:05:16

I was just thinking this exact thing. But nothing stops IT from adopting new language and just calling activities "outcomes" 😖😖😖

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:20

“moonshots” (versus “roofshots”)

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:39

It's easy to do anything badly NOTOK OKR

Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)10:05:00

unlimited velocity to unlearn and relearn

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Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)10:05:05

need coaching and time +

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:58

<verb> <measure> from <x> to <y>

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:12

An 'enabling constraint' in that you need to know x

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:29

@jonathansmart1 building upon the great OKR guidance from @mail832 and @mik

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:32

Forces a baseline measure and measurability. Doesn't happen overnight

Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)10:05:51

great point about the capturing change in behavior

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:05:54

Leading indicators for PDCA, OODA loops

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:07

Behaviour: no change in behaviour, no change

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Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)11:05:28

also that it is about learning +

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:32

'Our business outcome'

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)11:05:59

Will you be sued for copyright by @corey now thouigh? :thinking_face:

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:21

@jonathansmart1 what would you consider the lowest level in the org to establish OKRs?

Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)11:05:42

I think I need to revisit our OKRs 😞

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:42

Depends on context. Could be team level or team of team level @bryan.finster486

Gianluca Manzi11:05:43

On the example shared, how do you know leading measurements 1-4 will reach the objective ? Maybe they are not enough? Would you use simulations, data to plot? #ask-the-speaker-plenary @jonathansmart1

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:49

Through a bias to action and measuring them

Gianluca Manzi11:05:52

Just googled that - thanks!

Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)11:05:08

has to be some value otherwise why are we spending time doing this +

Gianluca Manzi11:05:50

Can individuals' performance be measured against OKRs? or is a NO NO #ask-the-speaker-plenary

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:21

Leads to bad behaviour

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Sabina Kamber Salamanca (Lead Agile Coach, Vodafone)11:05:52

"Culture over process" resonates big time.

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:13

@jonathansmart1 - I’ve heard that you should not use OKR’s for performance review processes. If we leave the OKR’s out, what would you recommend to use instead?

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:09

Agree with the advice to keep OKRs and performance appraisals separate, otherwise leads to bad behaviours

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:13

OKRs by design are supposed to be ambitious

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:29

that means it is possible that teams often fail at them or not achieve 100%

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:42

stretched OKRs drive a behaviour of risk taking and doing ambitious things

Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:50

Yeah exactly, perverse incentives

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:02

you dont want to discourage that by connecting them to performance reviews

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:11

also OKRs, at least at my company, are at a team level

Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:18

Do you just rate on competencies then?

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:41

yeah and reward when certain OKRs or projects go really well as a reward

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:54

so overall feedback, and competencies

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:33

Thanks @kapoor.vaidik!

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:35

@bernard.voos Values. e.g. rewarded for experimenting (and sometimes failing), for learning, for supporting others, sustainable working, rewarded for behaviours, for 360 feedback, for overall outcomes rather than output. Risk of tying OKR to appraisal, is it becomes Weaponised Metrics and we've all seen firms go to the dark side (e.g. Wells Fargo staff making up customer accounts)

Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:10

Thanks @jonathansmart1 I appreciate your advice

Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)11:05:20

3 - 5 per value stream. Not 50? :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff11:05:43

omg love how you just said epic haha

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Saulius Bartkus11:05:56

where I can find the slides for this talk?

Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff11:05:41

Will be in the video library momentarily (psyche it’s already there)

Saulius Bartkus11:05:08

Thank you very much !!

Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)11:05:08

"Future is unknowable" true humbleness 🙏 🙌

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)11:05:59

Oh that was a smooth save on the presentation @jonathansmart1 XO

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Adrian (Tasktop)11:05:10

that's because the future is unknowable @philipp.boeschen650 :-)

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:06

@jonathansmart1 have you been spying on my flipcharts? Those boxes seem familiar.

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Adrienne Shulman11:05:06

"the future is unknowable" - I would think this is something we can all agree on, but somehow it doesn't stop your [boss/exec/board] from asking for your plan, or even worse, your plan for your plan

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:29

Ninja move is an outcome roadmap

Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)11:05:37

when are you going to deliver project x 🙂

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:43

It's a plan of outcomes

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:00

Leaving teams to be as free as possible on the HOW

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:30

Such a key concept - I’ve heard senior execs say things like, “It’s great you guys were able to pivot once COVID-19 hit, but really we should be able to plan better…”

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:57

Remarkable what orgs achieve during COVID

Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)11:05:11

I've struggled with this as the business (engineering focused) have so long been used to Waterfall and clear short and long term plans

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:52

@eazyd247 yes, it's about unlearning and relearning. Takes time. Ninja move is to look at and point at the outcomes. Keep on articulating the outcome, more than the output if possible

Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)11:05:56

thanks, makes a lot of sense. It's been compounded at times with multiple re-orgs - often feels like you're starting again every few quarters

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:17

Especially for large organisations, this OKR alignment is critical. With 1000s of teams and products

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:41

in my opinion, this is a very very hard process :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:07

@jonathansmart1 i am late to this thread but can you share some ways of achieving alignment. are there some tools for this to be able to do this effectively and efficiently?

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:59

Let's chat at BoF, a lot to type!

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)11:05:58

Selfies... they always work :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley11:05:04

iroincally i think some of our businesses do this, but rarely shared in this form to tech 😔

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:52

After all, why bother, @gus.paul? 😭

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)11:05:13

IT is just the guys doing the computer bits right? 😢

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair15:05:59

Totally. Isn't it time we think about outsourcing IT again? 😢

Luke Rettig - Target11:05:54

“dont spend 12 months in Powerpoint”

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:13

“Where’s my workflow status feature?” 😭 😭

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:38

(or misadventures in OKRs. 🙂

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:40

See you in BoF later

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:42

Thank you, @jonathansmart1!!!

Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)11:05:46

thanks for that, really helpful refresher

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Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)11:05:50

great talk thank you!

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff11:05:52

🔥 OK NOTOK OKRs — 3Ms: Mindset, Mission and Measurement from @jonathansmart1 is available for sharing here: https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=550704697

Ann Perry - IT Revolution11:05:55

📣 Next up: @chawklady and @suzette.johnson5!!

Sabina Kamber Salamanca (Lead Agile Coach, Vodafone)11:05:56

That was fantastic @jonathansmart1 🙌👏

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)11:05:00

Great intro talk about OKRs! I finally understand OK OKRS @jonathansmart1 🙌

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:00

Thanks so, so much @jonathansmart1!! That was awesome

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:02

Expect to get it wrong... that's the path less traveled.

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Courtney - CTO at Zulily11:05:03

Always amazing @jonathansmart1

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)11:05:07

Very clear and actionable @jonathansmart1. Thanks!

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David Read11:05:13

excellent learning talk 👏

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Adrienne Shulman11:05:16

@jonathansmart1 wonderful talk, but wish you had added a trigger warning first , some of those anti patterns are a little too familiar :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:26

This is about an AWESOME guidance paper from @suzette.johnson5 @chawklady and team. The topic is 🔥 .

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)11:05:29

@jonathansmart1 is also hosting a special Birds of a Feather session on OKRs (#bof-okrs) today.

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David Read11:05:34

> that's how you slice the elephant

Courtney - CTO at Zulily11:05:45

Hi everyone!!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:49

How many people have ever had this happen to them? 😆

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Philip Day11:05:07

Putting our BVSSH thinking hats on, is this bundle safe? Imagine an exec was performance managed to these... should they be bundled with • Something about acceptable capex costs • Something about ongoing maintenance costs / stability • Something about satisfied compliance department ?

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:33

This is about objectives, not the limitations. The naysayers will make sure to be heard anyway. No reason to build boundaries when setting direction.

Philip Day11:05:11

Right but what if you hit the objectives, pay the exec bonuses, while building a mountain of tech debt and then there's a disastrous compliance breach in year 2?

Philip Day11:05:12

You could argue achieving these sort of metrics wouldn't be consistent with building up tech debt

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:41

No, you don't pay bonuses based on OKRs. That's incentivising experiment success...

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:48

When you introduce monetary incentives, the targets will be reached with whatever price - technical debt will rise.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:35

Also, having OKRs is not about having no other standards or having pride of a job well done.

Philip Day11:05:54

Ah, not linked to incentives, great Was that explicit in the talk? I might have missed it Incentives are toxic IMHO - I've posted this a few times over the three days

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:19

@jonathansmart1 did you mention incentives?

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:49

Yeah, that's the top 1 mistake I am seeing. Both of the metrics I am responsible for have been skewed that way right now in a certain organisation. You get more data points for your metrics but you lose trust in the quality of measuring.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:37

@philipday yes, do not tie OKRs to personal appraisals

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:07

There's another thread on this somewhere. It leads to Weaponised Metrics. Think Wells Fargo fake customer accounts

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:40

Also leads back to under promise to over deliver, rather than moonshots

Philip Day11:05:54

How do you keep them away from personal appraisals? If they are supposed to be prominent, high-profile, north-star things, that might be hard Keep them inside org units and not reported upwards?

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:58

The market share example also won't be in isolation. There will be other OKRs for a given quarter or year. For example, reduce capital spending

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:51

An OKR alignment, with transparency, so that everyone can see in one place the goals that every Value Stream (or VS of VSs) has.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:15

Also, there are KPIs (health) and KRs (movement)

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:33

The may be health measures (KPIs) around stability, capex, compliance. And KRs around the KPIs we want to move (e.g. reduce P1s from 10 a month to 1 every 6 months)

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:05:55

Changes in KPIs can be the "proof" part of Key Results. But the Objectives bring some other purpose and binds a theory of "this leads to that".

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:07

“so, what exactly, are you doing around digital disruption?”

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:38

We should all help each other open source consulting. Several of us do that. Expert as a Service. 🙂

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Fokko V.11:05:48

Thanks @jonathansmart1, this is really inspirational! Can't wait to start using OKRs 👍

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Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)11:05:59

I think orgs use consultants and their fancy slide decks as a fast/easier way to get that disruption. reminds me of the "cargo Culture" thing in Jon S's book

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Scott Nasello - Nike - Director of Digital Support11:05:02

Look forward to learning what you are up to at USAF

Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:24

Let's schedule another Bourbon Driven Development session. @chawklady, want to join?

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:22

Y'all send me some times and I'll get it done.

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley11:05:02

I'll never be able to unsee COVID-19 as a JIRA ticket

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Bob Fischer11:05:59

Where are the documents Gene mentioned prior to this talk?

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:47

cc @jeff.gallimore @alex Forum Paper link?

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:27

I love how @chawklady is modeling how an executive would talk to this consultant: confirm shared understanding of problem, desire to get best outcomes for the company (and the consultant). Not defensive at all.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:41

Now Dr. @suzette.johnson5 is modeling on proposing an iterative approach (not big bang), and let’s agree on how we can all hold each other accountable, as a team.

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:48

Yes, I need a mentor, not someone doing for me. Also need to know they are qualified to mentor me.

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Chris Gallivan, Stellantis, Value Stream Architect11:05:51

“Upskill yourself” while we ship the work to another supplier

Suzette Johnson11:05:40

So important to continue to upskill our people

Alfredo Colas11:05:17

Completely agree! It is so much easier to grow the people we already have than trying to get it somewhere else. It does require patience and strategic intent (and many times we do not have either)

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:48

Ha! And now @chawklady is validating that this is our [company leadership] job, right? And not the consultant’s job, unless they plan on taking over company operations. (Am I getting that right, @chawklady and @suzette.johnson5?)

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Katharine Chajka (Tasktop)11:05:13

building together and inside - it seems like there is a struggle by some to recognize internal change agents/champions despite it being very obvious to others the people who have passion/energy

Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:28

Give teams hard challenges, the tools to accomplish them, the ownership for how, and ownership of the outcomes. Upskilling is the outcome. 🙂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:45

And not “here comes the consultants: open pocket, insert vacuum cleaner!” 😆

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:05

@chawklady and @suzette.johnson5 Second bullet is so important - we had some agile consultants come in and they were practically bullying our teams. Totally violated the cultural norms we had.

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:00

Yeah it was awful. We had to send one of them packing.

Courtney - CTO at Zulily11:05:16

I've leveraged eNPS with consultants too to elevate that behavior.

Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:34

That’s a great call!

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)11:05:35

If I ever pulled that at a client’s, I hope they’d send me packing!

Courtney - CTO at Zulily11:05:36

Make that part of the on-going validation of the "health of the engagement"

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:37

I hadn’t thought of that

Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:18

The behavior sadly came from one of the execs who brought the consultants. That exec cast the shadow that it was ok to behave that way.

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:11

Dope at the top...

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:23

Improvement only comes from people who have skin in the game.

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Scott Nasello - Nike - Director of Digital Support11:05:06

equitable skin in the game matters too ... me having 190% can't compensate for a partner having 10% (i know the math doesn't work) :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:57

LOL. Yes, exactly so. Focused on the goals, not expanding the consulting footprint.

Andreas Baernthaler - TNG Technology Consulting11:05:28

> Seek first to understand, then to be understood

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:01

(I admire how earnest and sincere @chawklady and @suzette.johnson5 are — very focused on goals, thinking thru what it’ll take to get the desired outcomes. 🔥) (I also imagine that this Forum team spent a day laughing at the absurdities that made this Forum topic so necessary, right? 😆 And that delivering this presentation required “putting game face on” and “keeping certain thoughts firmly inside our head” ??)

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:38

Me too. @chawklady has always been my first mentor on this journey.

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Bernard Voos (FedEx)11:05:27

Great meme! @chawklady and @suzette.johnson5

Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)11:05:29

That was one of the best Seinfeld episodes :-)

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Chris Gallivan, Stellantis, Value Stream Architect11:05:02

You ask a bunch of legacy workers to learn new ways of working, put themselves out there. This takes safety. Sometimes outsourcing can take the wind out of the change sails.

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Luke Rettig - Target11:05:16

Anyone else struggling with similar problems that @chawklady and @suzette.johnson5 are talking about with Internal Consulting teams (I’ve seen them called things like Strategy Implementation)?

Luke Rettig - Target11:05:16

Anyone else struggling with similar problems that @chawklady and @suzette.johnson5 are talking about with Internal Consulting teams (I’ve seen them called things like Strategy Implementation)?

Matt Cobby (Director of Engineering, Deloitte)11:05:31

I used to run one. Teams became dependant onb

Matt Cobby (Director of Engineering, Deloitte)11:05:11

I used to run one. Teams became dependant on us rather than the build the capability. They didn't have the headcount to hire so they used us as perm staff

Luke Rettig - Target11:05:12

i’ve seen it/am seeing the same right now

Scott Nasello - Nike - Director of Digital Support11:05:14

I've seen the same with "embedded engineers". I typically would discuss the exit up front

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Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:18

Yes, that's a trap we tried to avoid at the Walmart Dojo. We held ourselves accountable to being customer focused and making ourselves peers to the teams we were helping instead of being a Center of Excellence.

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Scott Nasello - Nike - Director of Digital Support11:05:51

And what are the shared expectations on when exit of those resources is achievable

Bryan Finster - Defense Unicorns (Speaker)11:05:09

"Our goal is to help every team become the team we want to join so we can disband the Dojo" was our published goal.

upvotepartyparrot 2
Matt Cobby (Director of Engineering, Deloitte)11:05:45

COE = Centre of Enablement 👌 COE = Centre of Excellence :thumbsdown:

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Matt Cobby (Director of Engineering, Deloitte)11:05:34

Exit? There was no exit from some teams. Escalations ensued. It was Hotel California.

Ben Grinnell - North Highland and DOES PC11:05:22

It’s hard to free up people to work on Transformation initiatives, especially the critical high performers, but you have to prioritise their development as you put the mixed team together. I frequently see 2 anti-patterns:-employees given admin roles or just putting the people that are easy to free up into the team

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:08

Funny thought: all you awesome consultants out there: in ten years, you’ll be doing this to the next generation tech leaders, and they’ll all see you like this: (just kidding — I’m sure y’all will make sure that won’t happen! 😆 🙏

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Tim B11:05:12

Use consultants for their expertise and to, well consult.......the culture of the company remains.. It can go so right....but it can also go so wrong. We have had contractors with over 10 years with the company 😛

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)11:05:32

I’ve found that often results from an unwillingness of the people at the company to take over/learn the work the contractors are doing (on the operational level). On management level there are often warped incentives such that they think it’s somehow cheaper to have contractors working for you for 10 years!

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Tim B11:05:26

yes, agree - there are many factors and it all boils down to using them effectively

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)11:05:18

@chawklady That’s a great point. Ensuring we have a shared understanding of the goal and how we’re all going to contribute to it is fundamental to a good working relationship between client and consultant. I think a good consultant will do their best to ask the right questions to understand and, where needed, help the client better articulate what the outcomes are they are looking for.

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David Read11:05:57

Consultancies want you to be dependent on them. The successful ones are really good at it. You have to fight really hard to avoid it.

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)11:05:32

I think this is a consultancy anti-pattern and might be born out of insecurity. Personally, I think I’ve done a good job when the client is comfortable and happy without me. I’d rather move on to help another area of their business or on to another client who can use my assistance more. 😊

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David Read11:05:35

This seems to be a rare outcome, according to the experiences here, and is the point of this talk. We need to be savvy clients, with a firm idea of keeping the boundaries on accountability and dependencies, otherwise the consultancies will often leave bad things in their wake.

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AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)11:05:01

I agree with @saket.kulkarni I work for a company that does consultancy, but our goal is to raise the tech savy in our region and not to be the "bad wake" consultants. I'm often embedded in a team for a few years, developing, but also nudging , training and mentoring

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Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)11:05:58

consultants are often seen as much easier to get in rather than increasing head count. Can be very hard getting the business case through on the need for the latter

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:15

Thank you, @chawklady and Dr. @suzette.johnson5!!!! That was awesome!

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Fokko V.11:05:33

In my opinion, in consulting, the idea should be: learn your customer - do it alongside with your customer - let the customer do it him/herself...

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff11:05:37

🎉 Build Internal Capability, Not Consultant Dependency from @chawklady & @suzette.johnson5 is available for sharing here: https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=550704769 Forum papers available here: https://itrevolution.com/free-resources-sign-up/

Suzette Johnson11:05:40

Thank you! We appreciate the opportunity

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:46

Hello!  I hope everyone is having a GREAT DAY 3 MORNING!! 🎉 Our first surprise we have for you today! So, how would you like to get a “behind the scenes” look at how we created this DevOps Enterprise Summit? We heard so much already about how important it is to talk about accidents and near-misses — @nora talked about it yesterday, and Dr. @steve773 and Dr. @ronwestrum did as well today. These are the same principles that you use in your daily work. If you’re interested, join us at 1:50 pm BST during the mid-day break, where I’ll share how we created all the speaker videos, and the tools we built to deliver the two virtual conferences last year, and the two conferences this year. And in the spirit of the above, we’ll share some of the things that went wrong, some of our “near misses”, and all the contingency planning we did to survive a scenario where critical services we depend upon go down (think Slack, Vimeo, EasyLive, Google Cloud) — and how to better recover than the memorable end to DOES 2020 Vegas!  :) To join the session, just be watching Track 1 (https://doesvirtual.com/watch?track=1).  I’ll be presenting with @arne.brasseur and we’ll do Q&A as well. We’re excited to share and hope you enjoy the peek behind the scenes!  Bring your lunch!  :) (And for the first time, we’re doing it LIVE!  What could go wrong?)

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems12:05:26

I've been excited for this type of a talk ever since you talked about how much you learned from Patrick and his "paranoia" about dependencies.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]11:05:00

Thank you @chawklady @suzette.johnson5! Now, let me tell you about my great set of practices... 😉

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Tim Wyatt11:05:40

@david.read Key goal is to generate a monthly bill not necessarily to provide the best consultancy experience...I've worked with really good ones who impart knowledge and learning, and not so good ones who drive "bums on seats"

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)11:05:51

Sadly, I do see this happening often. Ironically, this is just as bad for the consultants’ development as it is for the internal employees’ journey. The potential strength of a consultant is their experiences across many companies and segments, so if they keep their bums stuck to your seats, they will quickly depreciate in value. 😂

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Ben Grinnell - North Highland and DOES PC11:05:24

As our world becomes more non-deterministic, we need to stop hiring consultants to design and then handover. Design-Dev is as big a problem as Dev-Ops - we need consultants to accelerate our experiments and learn with us

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff11:05:58

Day 3 AM Plenary Talks — Government as a Platform and Covid-19 – How Shared Platforms Enabled New Services To Be Built In Under a Week from @mail832 — https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=552759225 Fast and Slow Integrated Problem Solving Structures from @genek & @steve773 — https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=552759240 DevOps Confession from @genek — https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=552759255 Information Flow Cultures from Dr.@ronwestrum — https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=552759266 OK NOTOK OKRs — 3Ms: Mindset, Mission and Measurement from @jonathansmart1 — https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=550704697 Build Internal Capability, Not Consultant Dependency from @chawklady & @suzette.johnson5 — https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=550704769

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Ron Westrum11:05:35

That's a tough one. the famous russian saying is Kto Kom (who dominates?) And merged corporations are like merged families, often "the sum of its parts." People look to top management to see which way the wind blows. At Boeing, it was an ill wind. People were really angry and scared.

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)12:05:51

Ask your questions here and I’ll feed them to @genek and @arne.brasseur.

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)12:05:10

so many moving parts for this 🙂

Vlad Ukis12:05:25

Does not play any video

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)12:05:34

it’s coming… stand by…

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)12:05:12

“almost there…” just building suspense here :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems12:05:37

My first thought is I'm surprised the sun is up in Oregon right now 🙂

Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution, she/her)12:05:50

Patience, grasshoppers. This idea was literally born hours ago.

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)12:05:52

We work with short cycle times here 🙂

Moira Cheng13:05:43

Curious about Gather into breakout rooms 🙂

John Allspaw13:05:39

@ronwestrum I’d like to tell you that it’s quite satisfying to me that you’re presenting and chatting with this crowd. After many years of drawing on domains and fields that are not typically seen as “tech” or “IT” I’ve managed to trick convince some inspiring minds to take a closer look at this domain (including my now coworkers and friends Dr. Richard Cook and Dr. David Woods) so thanks for engaging! An aside, I also wanted to mention that while many here know of your organizational culture typology work, your https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284049195_Requisite_imagination_The_fine_art_of_anticipating_what_might_go_wrong was very influential for me when I did my master’s degree in Human Factors and Systems Safety (Lund) - so thanks for that, too. 🙂

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Ron Westrum16:05:55

Though I haven't seen them in a while, I once saw a lot of Dick Cook and Dave Woods! Thanks for your good comments!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair13:05:45

How are we doing?

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair13:05:56

By emoji pls! 🙏

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)13:05:52

this is live, folks 🙂

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Sophie Weston13:05:15

"No bash scripts were harmed in the making of this conference" 😀

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)13:05:38

Almost.. 🙈 There's a slide coming up about a contingency plan where we use one bash script for a backup

Arnab Nandi13:05:09

Was the HM video separately shot? There were multiple camera angles 🙂

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)13:05:04

Soon there will be Grafana dashboard with live metrics for the talks, like engagement scores 👀

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)13:05:29

“deploys were trivial. we could push out small changes on a whim.”

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)13:05:49

or do a live “peek behind the scenes” session on a whim, too 🤷

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Scott Nasello - Nike - Director of Digital Support13:05:59

disabled all caching layers - just in case

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)13:05:29

Oh I wondered what that red message box was 😮

Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)13:05:54

Fun fact: Those messages support partial markdown. This is how we send those emergency messages, on the DOES Dashboard:

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)13:05:11

stay tuned for the “near misses and things that went wrong” here shortly…

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)13:05:21

Is there an additional "Do you really want to do this?" Check? 😄

Jim Moverley13:05:50

i was wondering if discord was going to be ready for plan b

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Jim Moverley13:05:58

brilliant 🙂

Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)13:05:48

> Is there an additional "Do you really want to do this?" Check? @philipp.boeschen650

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Vlad Ukis13:05:51

We need to try it out by shutting down Slack or Vimeo 🙂

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)13:05:13

ummm… we’re confident things would work, but maybe later?

Vlad Ukis13:05:25

Just kidding, no worries 🙂

Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff13:05:09

please don’t try to crash the slack ahahhaah

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:05:23

😱😱😱😂😂😂

Kurt A, Blameless, SRE Architect15:05:01

Maybe next time you'll have to have Jeff say "please don't crash the slack" along with his donut/croissants 😄

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)13:05:09

Would the Youtube Livestreams also have instant playback? :thinking_face: That was actually something I was missing here this year

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Moira Cheng13:05:27

I had to use the Youtube link when my vpn didn't let me connect to 'Watch'. Temporary workaround 👍

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Andy Sturrock13:05:52

For the video editing, wouldn't it be easier to just get everyone to edit their own? Openshot is open source and easy to use as an example.

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)13:05:47

@andrew.sturrock Adding in intros, opening graphics, title slides, closing slides, external videos, different picture-in-picture formats, padding videos to certain lengths, etc were embedded in the "templates" we created. So this made editing easy enough to only care about the timestamps instead of the rest of the plumbing around it 🙂

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Christoph Hagedorn13:05:07

So from my point of view (Germany), everything worked smoothly and timely. Just the breaks could have been longer. I feel a little brain overload.

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)13:05:14

Obvious fix for the filenames - move the number to the front! 🎉

Sophie Weston13:05:35

This is all fascinating! And I love the openness and sharing... ❤️

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Andy Sturrock13:05:06

Need to do blameless post-mortems on the incidents!

Sophie Weston13:05:34

A generative culture and an awesome community to be a part of!

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)13:05:26

I just thought the captioning was a feature for better availability 😅

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)13:05:54

yes. let’s go with that answer :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Chris13:05:37

Don't know if there are attendees in China mainland, but then the Youtube fallback wouldn't help them much (outside of those having "vpn") 😉

Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)13:05:38

"It's a feature.. not a bug" 🙈

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Moira Cheng13:05:23

That was funny the caption - the speaker said 'Agile' and it came out as 'a gel' 😄

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Andy Sturrock13:05:03

There was a really funny one at work with Teams auto-captioning. Very obscene, can't repeat here!

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Benjamin Kellogg13:05:33

Going forward with future conferences, as we return to "normal", do you plan to keep it virtual? I really like that everything is achieved so I can go back and rewatch these sessions.

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)13:05:28

Truly leading by example delivering a brand new talk about how to produce a conference while holding a conference 🤯

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)13:05:36

Thank you Team for making all this possible ❤️

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Moira Cheng13:05:53

Q: Gather into breakout rooms - what tech did you use?

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)13:05:14

Youtube Livestreams (I mean they probably have the infrastructure to boot) can just pause and continue playback at the point you paused 🙂 But yeah I get that!

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)13:05:59

Gather has turned out to be very useful, how long will it be available post-conference?

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)13:05:33

Yes, please try to include as much virtual as possible.

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Ramsay13:05:04

How do you choose between plenary and multi-track for sessions?

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Jim Moverley13:05:44

is there a bloopers reel 😄

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems13:05:59

Hehehe. Gene's comment about bash scripts is what I thought when I saw the question 🙂

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili13:05:13

I hope Gather will be around for after after party 😄

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Jim Moverley13:05:08

be good to have meetups between events on gather : think i raised it before with @nickeggleston

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)13:05:33

truth! many takes i didn’t send

Jim Moverley13:05:45

@genek HAHAHA brilliant 🙂

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems13:05:56

Hopefully the Kims avoided hitting their internet limit this year 🙂

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)13:05:21

a couple of exceptions… like this!

Jim Moverley13:05:39

👏👋👋 - this was great and really made it true live 🙂

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Annie Manatad13:05:41

Totally worthwhile! Thanks for this @genek and team!

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)13:05:43

👏 👏 super cool session!

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Moira Cheng13:05:46

Well done @genek and @arne.brasseur for the live stream behind the scenes talk 😄

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Christoph Hagedorn13:05:56

Thank you very much. The overall virtual conference experience has been very good. I enjoyed it a lot.

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Chris13:05:08

thanks @genek @arne.brasseur

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Sophie Weston13:05:13

That was fun - thank you!

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)13:05:23

Thanks to the entire ITRev team, they're a blast to work with ❤️

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AmrutaRaul13:05:05

Thank you for all the efforts @genek and team!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair13:05:45

Thanks for all who attended the “Behind the Scenes” talk that I did with @arne.brasseur — I’m sure he’s as proud as I am that all the work we’ve done since January has resulted in a great conference experience, where you don’t have to worry about how it all actually works! 🎉

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair13:05:19

The amazing editing tool that I use is Descript, both for this conference and the Idealcast podcast — couldn’t do either without it! https://www.descript.com/

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems13:05:14

Seeing the team putting on the conference have fun really helps the experience. Its like the difference between being at a conference where the band looks like they are having a blast vs one that looks bored.

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Arne Brasseur (CEO - Gaiwan, he/him)13:05:48

It's hard to be bored around @genek

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Sabina Kamber Salamanca (Lead Agile Coach, Vodafone)14:05:29

@genek when you say the virtual summit would be like "cinematic experience", it felt even more to me with the use of slack interactions with everyone. I actually feel it is beyond that as "interactive cinematic experience", whereby the actors came out of the screen and reacted with the audience at all times. Amazing experience. Very grateful to you and all your team. We should all shout from the roof tops everywhere about 2021 European DevOps Summit. I for sure will

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Christian Rudolph (TUIGroup - Head Of DevOps Transformation)14:05:27

Is the "behind the scenes" talk as well recorded?

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)14:05:00

it is. we’re talking about how best to make that available. stay tuned!

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Christian Rudolph (TUIGroup - Head Of DevOps Transformation)05:05:35

Any update on this @jeff.gallimore Can't wait to see it 😬

Bob Fischer15:05:39

For anyone from TuiGroup - I've watched companies take years (and then fail) to converge multiple services into one (I think you mentioned pricing). How did you go about creating the combined backlog?

Christian Rudolph (TUIGroup - Head Of DevOps Transformation)15:05:24

Single ownership is the key, even when not all systems are yet unified you need single ownership for all systems. Also the business partner started to unify to one voice/person

Christian Rudolph (TUIGroup - Head Of DevOps Transformation)15:05:29

so we have now one responsible person for all pricing systems (old and new)

Bob Fischer15:05:35

That's helpful. Thank you. One challenge I noticed at one company was that no one really understood what the systems did. They had evolved to address thousands of niche cases. I'm guessing you are trying to reduce niche cases as much as possible, so you redefined pricing at TUIGroup as part of the process. Is that right?

Bob Fischer15:05:54

And your existence as an enterprise was under threat from COVID, which I imagine made compromise easier to make.

Christian Rudolph (TUIGroup - Head Of DevOps Transformation)15:05:02

Yes we consolidate as well the business process around it.

Christian Rudolph (TUIGroup - Head Of DevOps Transformation)15:05:34

and of course COVID made it easier to get agreements

Bob Fischer15:05:42

Thanks again. Really enjoyed he presentation.

Ann Perry - IT Revolution16:05:27

📣 The first of our closing plenary talks is from the Disney team! Welcome, @jason.cox @nasia.a.haque @shaili.guru @emeka.asika @steven.j.steinman @shirley.liou @laura.j.barnes @neha.zalpuri @hynespd and Deepti Mutnuru

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:16

Hello, @jason.cox and an AMAZING cast of characters from Disney!!! So excited about this talk!

Jason Cox - Disney16:05:54

Hi everyone!

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations16:05:56

@genek: really excited to hear about this after the discussion of leadership in the navy from @jmrichardson1

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:08

I think the Technology Management Rotation program is so incredible — when I first learned about it, I wanted to apply for one of those openings — but I don’t have an MBA!!! 😭

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant16:05:31

its like an internship while not being paid like an intern

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:07

[Achieving Disney goals] “…requires leadership. That means we have strong technology leaders.” — @jason.cox

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shaaron a alvares16:05:55

Yeah! Go Disney and Jason!! This is an amazing program

Frances Paulisch16:05:02

very interesting idea!

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:03

@jason.cox you are absolutely working for the right company. you are Disney for me! you are 🪄

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Bryan Kemp16:05:37

this is great... was their rotation within a single Product Value Stream?

Christian Rudolph (TUIGroup - Head Of DevOps Transformation)16:05:15

@jason.cox Did I understood it correctly that this was a Technology only rotation?

Patrick Anderson - Tasktop - he/him16:05:19

Admiral John Richardson would no doubt love this "leadership factory"!

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Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)16:05:20

They are actually doing and delivering while learning - creating value, which is what people are motivated by

Sophie Weston16:05:54

So many women! 🙌

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Jason Cox - Disney16:05:12

Across all businesses. You will hear, but it allows these leaders to work across our divisions and products, on Studios products, Imagineering/Parks projects, and direct to consumer streaming, etc.

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:05:24

Is this the teaser trailer to the presentation? 😄

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)16:05:11

At some point @jason.cox will just present an entire movie and we'll all sit here and watch it with 🍿

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)16:05:45

Imagine though, a Disney movie about leadership principles and DevOps 🤯

Kurt A, Blameless, SRE Architect17:05:23

Maybe they could call it The Unicorn Project 🙂

Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)16:05:18

Getting everyone to realise technology is throughout the whole organisation and tech teams can contribute so much to culture, would make huge change in most organisations

Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)16:05:23

It’s not if you’re ready to sign up…it’s if you qualify! 😭😂

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:39

@jason.cox how do you make it easy/easier for the TMRs to plug into new teams and new teams to have the TMRs plug into them?

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Nasia Aurora Haque16:05:16

TMR Alum here! We find out about a new rotations a few weeks before we join the team, so we’re encouraged to go ahead and meet with our new day-to-day leaders and other team members. This really helps us establish a rapport before we even get there. After 4 rotations, we are very, very good at starting new jobs and providing value quickly.

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:25

thanks for sharing that perspective!

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:05:42

Oh, there's a stereo pingpong in the audio track... that's annoying. 😞

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Marco Delgado [Ocado Technology, Engineering Practice Lead]16:05:46

was it only for external new joiners, or was it available for internal people too?

Jason Cox - Disney16:05:06

Yes, agree @ferrix not sure what that is. Should be mono.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:05:19

I didn't expect intention from anyone at Disney to have it like this 😄

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:05:49

I know you can do an "okay" audio experience

Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)16:05:29

That comment about leaders staying the code reminded me of you!

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)16:05:26

“Leaders who stay in the tech” = Technical Maestro

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:27

“We need leaders drive technology; explore and innovate; our former CIO created the TMR program, across not just the enterprise, but within each business segment… “…one of her strategic pillars is technology. We need strong tech leaders. We don’t launch leaders in tech who don’t stay deep in tech. So often leaders become detached from tech — they’re no longer in the code. “So, we looked for candidates who were technically curious; and interested in business” So good!

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)16:05:39

Building Technological Maestros!

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Christoph Hagedorn16:05:41

"passionate about technology" 💯

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Rosalind16:05:10

Great to see the passion on technology and technology leaders

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]16:05:16

@jason.cox is that your garden? 🙂

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shaaron a alvares16:05:10

that is so true about @jason.cox 🙂

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:13

“We need people who aren’t just educated in technology; but are technically curious.” So good!

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Chris16:05:21

Actually technology being moving fast, I first search for continuous learner, not gurus of a tech probably less adaptable and potentially soon oudated. Mastery can be built, curiosity less.

Jason Cox - Disney16:05:33

@jeff.gallimore great question - we solicited assignments from all businesses - I would get 60 or so ideas from groups across the company and then would work with the TMRs to pick the best ones for them. I would work with our CIO to finalize those assignments. We always had way more assignment opportunities than TMRs which was a good indication of the need.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:44

What an honor to have been selected, @jason.cox — I love how they arrived at this decision, on how it would benefit the TMR program!

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Bryan Kemp16:05:53

"Love Building People, Community and Networks" nice!

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:05:09

@genek I think having something else as your education AND tech curiosity is better than having run of the mill software engineers on all chairs. One sort of diversity

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:14

And I had no idea that you owned both sides of TMR — selecting candidates, selecting projects, and matching them together!!

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Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)16:05:22

@jason.cox Was it all on top of the day job or was time created for you to lead TMR?

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:45

FREE MONEY for the business units!!! Now we’re talking!!!

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:05:17

"Leaving something for accomplishing things" mind blown

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems16:05:19

With a 12 or 6 month rotation, how do you keep the focus on continuous delivery of value? Is there ways the focus is kept off of "We need to finish this before I leave!"?

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)16:05:54

Organizational discomfort 🙂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:20

“these TMRs have skill, some experience, but an OVERSIZED level of energy and drive.” They’re ambitious, partly as demonstrated that many of them put themselves thru an MBA program— is that correct, @jason.cox?

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili16:05:21

Unsurprisingly someone from Disney has a smooth voice and is a great storyteller.

Jason Cox - Disney16:05:28

@ffion yes was on top of the rest of my work. I had my leaders keep asking me if I wanted to continue it or if it was too much… it was a lot of work, but was a labor of love.

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Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)16:05:23

Sounds like a job in itself but absolutely critical work and the impact it will have had on the people involved let alone Disney culture will have been huge

Nasia Aurora Haque16:05:27

@jason.cox has been absolutely invaluable to the TMR program. He has constantly championed the program and its value, and consistently supports those of us who have already graduated the program. We couldn’t ask for a better director.

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Nasia Aurora Haque16:05:25

For a leadership development program to be successful, you NEED these kinds of champions, front and center and fully invested.

Craig Cook - IBM16:05:31

Great to see woman leaders in this program

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Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)16:05:49

Yes, this is amazing @jason.cox

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Frances Paulisch16:05:33

I fully agree that a fresh perspective can be very beneficial. At our company we have a process that encourages that business line X can get an impartial/external view from a small team from other business lines. It is always a great learning experience and provides good new directions.

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Jason Cox - Disney16:05:08

@dacahill7 Great question - it always amazed me how these leaders were able to level up existing products as well as deliver significant contributions on new ones, sometimes starting new efforts that continued well past their assignment.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:55

PS: @jason.cox — @drjgoosbysmith Goosby Smith is watching along with the rest of us. I’m hoping that this is delighting her as much as it’s delighting me! 🤞

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shaaron a alvares16:05:00

Here's another great example of Jason's generative leadership, worth a read: https://www.jasonacox.com/wordpress/archives/876

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)16:05:11

I'm guessing there is a clout and influence associated with being a TMR that makes it easier for these folks to reach out to people? @jason.cox

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shaaron a alvares16:05:20

love to see the various and diverse background and how people come together to create the magic, the culture and the future!

Jason Cox - Disney16:05:29

@nasia.a.haque - good example of leadership! 🙂

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Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)16:05:31

@jason.cox how much work/challenge was it to get other business leaders onboard with this?

David Read16:05:36

These fast track management programmes are well-known for being a rocket for a person's success, long term in the org. Rotation is fantastic for quickly getting experience. Also the strong networking amongst cohort - they help each other out for many years. It's really attractive for candidates and companies wanting to grow good managers.

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Bryan Kemp16:05:14

Good to make sure they find the right fit too

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Siddharth, NatWest Group, DevOps CoE (he/him)16:05:14

Well similar flavor of working we do at NatWest Group. The Grads (MBAs) we hire need to work on a rotation of 6 months for certain years before moving to a definite business area (that too has a certain process including the GRADs choice) and then they move after a fixed period. So regular movement is spoken methodology that we do. Thanks to @jason.cox & team for giving next level of how it can be taken forward.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:57

PRODUCT MANAGER, MARVEL ?!?

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)16:05:26

I’m a Marvel Unlimited subscriber! 😁

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems16:05:05

I've clicked through pages on there before and thought "Wow this would be a lot of fun to work on!"

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)16:05:56

It’s a great experience. Especially if you’re a comics fan. I do see a lot of opportunity for improvement, though, but I’m sure they’ll get around to it! 🙂

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:29

I have to imagine competition for that job was pretty high. 🙂

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Jason Cox - Disney16:05:06

@rshoup We talked a lot about that in the program. The profile for a leader is someone who builds networks and relationships. We work on that and I’m incredibly proud of all of the TMR graduates… they continue to do that! And Yes, added value they bring to their role from the program is the cross-business connections they have built.

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)16:05:00

Great! There's an implicit "sponsorship", I'm guessing, which would be a great accelerator to the networking and relationship building. You maybe don't need an exec intro if you can say "I'm on my TMR rotation". So exciting and inspiring.

Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)16:05:04

That's awesome, do they presumably have a behavioural element to the programme and is their network with each other an outcome too? Trust amongst your leaders as they grow through the business?

Jason Cox - Disney17:05:19

Yes, the leaders that have been through the program not only keep those relationships, they also are big supporters of future TMR leaders that enter the program. They becomes mentors as they graduate too. 😉

Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)17:05:57

One of my favourite elements of great development programmes!

shaaron a alvares16:05:22

Cross business connections!! That's awesome

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:39

High energy, high standards…

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)16:05:47

@jason.cox, what do you do to keep your technical skills sharp and how much time do you dedicate to it?

Jason Cox - Disney16:05:23

@eazyd247 you will hear from one in the talk today…. great support from leaders. They saw the outcomes and wanted to help.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:41

I’m so jealous that @jason.cox learned AutoLISP decades ago.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:20

Reminds me of @david627 from Team of Teams — middle level leaders who are expert at working across the organization.

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)16:05:36

Actually lots of similarities -- good call. Free help, strong person, explicitly about coordination. I wonder if any of the TMRs took out the trash at an embassy like the Special Forces guy 😉

Jason Cox - Disney16:05:55

One of the TMRs helped launch a new product: IoT sensors for trash cans in Tomorrowland that expanded to all parts. It helped improve location and the route for “”taking out the trash” in an optimal way. So in some way, they did take out the trash as part of their rotation. 😉

Jason Cox - Disney16:05:03

@nickeggleston - stay n the code! I tell the TMRs this. 🙂 Keep exploring and surround yourself (your team) with curious people that keep challenging you on the tech side as well as leadership side. I keep my fingers in code (I’m not good!) and publish some of it to create good personal pressure: https://github.com/jasonacox

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shaaron a alvares16:05:14

yes it IS amazing!

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)16:05:35

Just shows how big of a leader @jason.cox is that he basically gave most of the time to everyone else in this talk, 😍

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shaaron a alvares16:05:38

that is cool leaders' feedback 🙂

Jason Cox - Disney16:05:02

Nick Cannon, our CTO at Animation, is a great partner that wouldn’t be part of the program without @nasia.a.haque leadership to introduce him to the program.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:17

So great, @nasia.a.haque!!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:51

You were fantastic, @nasia.a.haque!! You made the TMR program and @jason.cox and all of Disney look so good! Thank you!

Olivier Jacques, DXC16:05:24

Pipeline for leaders. 👏

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:28

Thank you @jason.cox and entire cast at Disney!!!!

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution16:05:30

A huge thank you to @jason.cox and the Disney team!! 📣 And now, to close out the conference, we have a very special presentation on Creating Inclusive Organizations by @drjgoosbysmith !

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant16:05:49

great presentation as well. looked like world class production! awesome stuff @jason.cox and the entire team!

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Patrick Hynes - Disney16:05:03

Great job @jason.cox for pulling this presentation together so quickly. Glad so many of you enjoyed

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Jason Cox - Disney17:05:28

And great job @hynespd !! I wish we could have recorded and told more of your amazing stories.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:18

Yes, please welcome, @drjgoosbysmith. Goosby Smith!!! I’m so honored that she can teach us — I love her book “Beyond Inclusion”: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Inclusion-Interconnectedness-Resilience-Organizations/dp/1137385413

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems16:05:16

There's a rental option now for $20! The $80 price tag kept me away from it before.

Dr. J16:05:38

Hi all!!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:02

(another wonderful cross population study — the same instrument that allowed the medical profession link smoking to early morbidity and mortality!!!)

shaaron a alvares16:05:05

Whoop whoop! so excited to see inclusion always represented in this fantastic conference! Thank you Gene and Team! ❤️

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:38

Oh, @drjgoosbysmith — I forgot to tell you. We had former CNO Admiral John Richardson teach us about leader development yesterday! 🎉

Dr. J16:05:20

OUTSTANDING!!!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:05:32

Here’s the video of the talk he gave — I thought it was so superb. Let me or @annp know if you have any problems accessing it! https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=550704528

shaaron a alvares16:05:44

Variables, awesome

Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)16:05:55

I found @drjgoosbysmith’s talk so important and effective last DOES and encouraged everyone in my company to watch it, hope others do as well.

Dr. J16:05:41

Thank you, Mik! I can't wait until we can do in-person conferences again! I'm glad it is useful.

Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)16:05:25

So useful! Thank you @drjgoosbysmith!! And yes will be wonderful to meet in person!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:03

“Leading like a gardener” — @drjgoosbysmith

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shaaron a alvares16:05:34

aww, awesome comparison

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:47

i love this garden metaphor

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)16:05:22

The gardener metaphor is very interesting. How do you measure thriving?

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Dr. J17:05:28

In a live organization, I do an inclusion audit. Then I dis-aggregate by stakeholder groups and various identities. I measure thriving quantitatively with this measure...and qualitatively with open responses.

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:57

Do you have a sample of the audit/survey you can share?

Dr. J17:05:52

One question is, on a scale of 1 to 5, how often do you share a meal with your manager (that one measures one aspect connection, which I will cover shortly). My measure is based upon my published research in Beyond Inclusion (there are free chapters online that you can google)

Dr. J17:05:30

The audit is based on my research.

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)17:05:56

some plants have different water needs to thrive!

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Dr. J17:05:16

Absolutely!

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)17:05:19

such a thought-provoking view of the many dimensions of diversity to consider.

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Adrienne Shulman17:05:37

"at our core we're all similar and different" ❤️

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:16

We were talking about internal dimensions like Into vs Extro -version vis-a-vis the desire to get back into the office vs those who have said they will never go back and will change jobs if it's tried.

Dr. J17:05:51

I totally TOTALLY understand. I, personally, could work remotely for the rest of my life!

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)17:05:28

minorities

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)17:05:42

Shaping language to impact inclusion is such an important concept 💯

Dr. J17:05:26

So true. "Shaping language" I love that phrase

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:21

The smallest minority as you parse the attributes is the minority of one aka individual.

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Dr. J17:05:18

Yep...so we are ALL minorities (parsed to the max!)

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)17:05:30

ok. who else laughed out loud when @drjgoosbysmith said “i’m in this brown shrinkwrap”?

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Adrienne Shulman17:05:31

I also hate seeing individual people being described as diverse'

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Dr. J17:05:48

EXACTLY!!!! "Diverse" describes a collective...not an individual.

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Steve Spear17:05:34

This is great. If we’re all in the image of our creator, yet we’re all different, it says that we’re only in the image of something encompassing infinity only if we’re only together.

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Dr. J17:05:23

You better preach, brother.

Dr. J17:05:35

Also, frank and constructive feedback builds trust and is also an aspect of mentoring/coaching

Dr. J17:05:32

with love.. yep

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:05:49

Oh my. Profound. 🙏🙏❤️❤️

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:45

How do you integrate challenge (something the individual needs short term they won't like) to make them stronger in the long run? And how does challenge map into the gardening metaphor?

Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)17:05:06

As soon as you stop treating people like numbers, you'll be surprised what you'll find 🙂

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Dr. J17:05:09

Yes. You will find MIRACLES!

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Dr. J17:05:48

Also, frank and constructive feedback builds trust and is also an aspect of mentoring/coaching

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Siddharth, NatWest Group, DevOps CoE (he/him)17:05:36

At times it is also dependent on the intent of the receiver even the giver has pure heart.

Dr. J17:05:21

Absolutely. And giving the giver and the receiver the benefit of the doubt. With mutual trust, you can say and hear just about anything

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Dr. J17:05:37

Go Bears! 😂

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)22:05:47

(what makes it extra funny is I know nearly nothing about Football)

Dr. J17:05:11

I know some people have a poor opinion of Dungy. I like how he managed his teams. That is why he is my favorite coach. I don't necessarily condone everything he has said

Kavleen - Product Specialist17:05:11

I loved the garden analogy. Is it possible to share the slides or video Dr. J. I dont find them in videolibrary or dropbox. Thankyou

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:46

I think the videos are released to the library after they stream for plenary talks.

thankyou 1
Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:33

Ubuntic Inclusion ... I'm running multiple versions of Ubuntu right now 😂

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)17:05:48

This point about witnessing fairness feels like a similar thing when you actually feel good when you just see acts of kindness :thinking_face:

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Dr. J17:05:35

Some things are contagious.

Olivier Jacques, DXC17:05:11

It took me some google search to figure out who the coach was. Got it! (Tony Dungy)

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Dr. J17:05:53

Sorry about that!

Olivier Jacques, DXC17:05:25

No, no, I keep learning! 😄

Siddharth, NatWest Group, DevOps CoE (he/him)17:05:42

We at NatWest Group completely resonate & practice with what @drjgoosbysmith. said today. It seemed like I was hearing what our organization has been preaching from top to bottom. Thanks so much 🙂 https://www.natwestgroup.com/who-we-are/working-at-natwest-group/building-a-more-inclusive-bank.html

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:48

@drjgoosbysmith are you on twitter too?

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AlignedDev (Omnitech Engineer)17:05:51

"Do justice. Love mercy. Walk humbly."

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Adrienne Shulman17:05:01

@drjgoosbysmith the link between fairness & trust is really interesting. In our DEI work , when we introduced the concept of equity, we felt we really needed to build trust with the majority first, otherwise majority would say "hey that's not FAIR!" if we just started giving more water to one plant

Dr. J17:05:42

Trust is everything, isn't it? That's what worries so much about society right now.

Adrienne Shulman17:05:50

omg yes. trust is everything. i've been thinking about this a lot just watching the world this past year

Adrienne Shulman17:05:59

i have lots of thoughts about trust and transparency and all these tectonic global shifts we're seeing... lots to worry about but also so much to be optimistic about (in the long view) if you know where to look for them

Adrienne Shulman17:05:20

thank you so much for your work and your talk, its a message that can be amplified loud enough

Olivier Jacques, DXC17:05:04

This was such a beautiful and inspiring talk. Thank you!

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Dr. J17:05:31

Thank you for hanging in there and engaging!

Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)17:05:07

thanks for that, great presentation

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Steve Spear17:05:12

@drjgoosbysmith Outstanding!

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Philipp Böschen, TUI, DevOps Coach, (he/him)17:05:17

What a wholesome and amazing way to close out 👏

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff17:05:28

Creating Inclusive Organizations from @drjgoosbysmith is now available for sharing: https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/?video=551641853

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Ciaran Byrne17:05:35

That was brilliant. Thank you @drjgoosbysmith 👏

Marco Delgado17:05:37

👏🙌

Tim Gould17:05:03

Such a compelling speaker and message. Wonderful @drjgoosbysmith

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:11

Remember to come to the Bar in Gather after the talks end!

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)17:05:23

Was this the best DevOps Enterprise Summit we’ve run?

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Rosalind17:05:01

Content was great - as a virtual event it was great. (in person will be welcome next year)

Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)17:05:32

Well worth the 2am wakeups!!

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Steve Spear17:05:34

Yay @genek

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Olivier Jacques, DXC17:05:42

oh... The closing is live!

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Andreas Baernthaler - TNG Technology Consulting17:05:44

Thank you @drjgoosbysmith, this was the most important talk on this conference for me (which I can say with conficence now).

Andreas Baernthaler - TNG Technology Consulting17:05:44

Thank you @drjgoosbysmith, this was the most important talk on this conference for me (which I can say with conficence now).

Dr. J17:05:00

Thank you, Andreas!

Dr. J18:05:24

Yes, internal and external. External because people treat us differently because of it, which gives us different perspectives and experiences.

Christoph Hagedorn17:05:48

awesome selection of topics and speakers 👍

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Charanpreet Singh, Infosys17:05:05

Cannot agre more with you @genek , Indeed the best summit i believe

Olivier Jacques, DXC17:05:10

Loooved the BoF sessions!

Lloyd P17:05:11

Slack gonna DDOS Gene now lmao

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Olav Maassen (Tasktop)17:05:16

The best virtual conference I have attended!

upvotepartyparrot 1
Dubro - Conti Tires17:05:22

It was my first DevOps Summit and it was amazing!

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution, she/her)17:05:29

Thank you all of our attendees and partners!

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Daniel Fraser17:05:37

This was a great conference

Andrew Salt - ScholarPack17:05:38

Great summit - thank you @genek and co. Gather was fun this year. More shorter breaks would be good.

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Dubro - Conti Tires17:05:49

Not only content, also organization was mindblowing good

John Townsend17:05:50

It was great. What a great execution of a virtual conference!

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]17:05:52

Thank you so much @genek @mvk842 @erin @alex @annp @annp @annp @annp @jeff.gallimore @annan @mollyc, Gaiwan team, speakers, PC committee and sponsors! 🙏🙏🙏

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Steve Spear17:05:53

@mvk842 👍

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Marco Delgado17:05:55

It’s been super awesome!

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AmrutaRaul17:05:58

Amazing 3 days here. Learned a lot. Taking bag loads filled with lot of things to reflect. Thank you!

Saurabh Singh17:05:58

This is one of the best summit, thanks a lot

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:59

It will be a real challenge to keep all the best of the virtual experience when getting back on a physical stage

Padmaja Rangaraju17:05:59

This is my first DevOps Summit and I learnt a lot. Thank you!

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Johan Tegler17:05:00

Really good conference! It was great!

Jim Moverley17:05:04

Amazing summit.. so good to meet everyone and see the speakers amongst the discussions in gather.

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)14:05:26

That the speakers join the gatherings is one of the things that makes DOES so special. 😊

Jim Moverley17:05:12

gather made a huge difference for sure

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Shalini Nair17:05:18

Awesome ! Great speakers and insights.... thanks

Chris Leeworthy (he/him)17:05:23

Thanks to everyone for pulling together and running another great event 🙂

David Orsi - RTE, NatWest Group17:05:23

my first virtual and lots of food for thought!

Sinead Devine17:05:31

Thank you - I go back to my job inspired and ready to continue the fight in our journey!

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Alfredo Colas17:05:47

@genek and team, this was a great conference. Lots of insights and ideas to continue the journey...

Ann Perry - IT Revolution17:05:48

Thank you, @mvk842 @alex @mollyc @kearav @erin @marjorie @annan @arne.brasseur @mitesh @alys

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Jim Moverley17:05:55

video delivey + cinematic experience was ACE!!

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Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)17:05:22

Thank you ITRev team for making the entire journey so funnn!! ❤️

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Rob Gillam17:05:27

Best virtual event I have attended, well done and thanks

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:30

The errors didn't matter and make it more "live" feeling

Olivier Jacques, DXC17:05:33

ITRev, you are changing the world (eaten by Software)

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Kristine Setschin - GitLab17:05:55

ITRev Team is just A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!!! 👏

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Thiyagu17:05:06

Thanks @genek and Team for putting together amazing show virtually... It was amazing and i enjoyed every bit thankyou

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]17:05:09

I don't want it to end!!! 🙂

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Tom Coudyzer17:05:14

Thank you so much for the great content, learnings and not to forget thank you community! You’re awesome, you’re the best 🙏

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:25

I ❤️ the conference and am 😭 it's over

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Siddharth, NatWest Group, DevOps CoE (he/him)17:05:37

Big hands for ITRevolution team . @annp, @alex, @leahb, @mvk842, @kearav, @kearav, @annan, @erin. 🙌

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)17:05:56

So sad we won't be going to the pub afterward to unwind and chat 🍻

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Kristine Setschin - GitLab17:05:58

join us for a drink at the Gather bar in a bit!

Ann Perry - IT Revolution17:05:35

Good news! @genek and @jeff.gallimore will be at the bar in Gather in a few minutes! Gather will be open until tomorrow for all of you to continue "Gather"ing!!

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)15:05:08

Thanks for everyone coming to talk afterwards

Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff17:05:16

Gather has been upgraded for another day!

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Jim Moverley17:05:53

awesome!! 🙂

Jim Moverley17:05:00

extra video access TY!

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:17

Thanks for two weeks access, it's hard to fit it all in one week

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:49

Feedback is a gift, and sharing is caring

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:00

Thank you so much to the ITREV team! My boss and wife: @mvk842, @mollyc, @annp, @kearav @alex @annan @lisa.dahms @erin

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Saket Kulkarni, Coach, Capgemini (he/him)17:05:04

Could someone post up those dropbox and github links again for the slides?

Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff17:05:01

Video library has all the slides, too, and it’s way easier to sort through (I did all the hard work matching them to talks haha) https://videolibrary.doesvirtual.com/

Mitesh (DOES Event Staff / Engineer at Gaiwan)17:05:19

Get together GO FASTER!!! 🚀 🚀

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Jim Moverley17:05:28

👏👏👏

Adrienne Shulman17:05:44

This was my first DOES and it exceeded ALL expectations, wish I had discovered you all sooner. what an amazing conference.

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)15:05:12

I felt the same after my first one too

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:45

"unicorns and rainbows for everyone" :unicorn_face:🌈

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Dave Reed (bp Product Manager)17:05:09

thanks all, great fun and production as usual

Dubro - Conti Tires17:05:12

Now I need a week off to do all the recommended reading 🙂

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff17:05:37

Please take a few mins and let us know how the experience was here: https://forms.gle/kdJUB7YGCzg3B1k29

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)17:05:19

Gather in the Gather Bar after the conference!!

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Alfredo Colas17:05:29

Not sure if it was just me but we lost the end of the final comments... Intrigued about the last words of wisdom....

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)17:05:19

I just heard it might have cutout just after “sharing is caring”… in which case, these are the final thoughts… For the last three days, we’ve been talking a lot about community. That’s what this… is all about. It’s the spirit of the DevOps Enterprise Summit to get together… to go faster… as a community. And there will be another opportunity for us all to get back together and go faster later this year and again next year. Because we all have a need to connect… to share… and to learn. We have the DevOps Enterprise Summit US Virtual on October fifth through the seventh. And, if all goes according to plan, we’ll be back in London… in person… in 2022. Until then, be well, stay safe, and we’ll see you…hopefully in person… next year. Take care, everybody.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:29

Thank you all for attending DevOps Enterprise!!! And thank you LaunchDarkly! They’ll have the expo open over the weekend, as will Gather!!! 🎉 🎉 More conferring!!!

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Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)17:05:01

Thank you so so much all of ITREV for an amazing conference!!! Once again so much to mull on for coming days and weeks and looking forward to discussions with all the new connections 🙂

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Sabina Kamber Salamanca (Lead Agile Coach, Vodafone)17:05:25

Huge thanks everyone for an amazing DevOps summit. This was my first one, but it was mind blowing experience. Now, I need to go and start shouting about it everywhere

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Siddharth, NatWest Group, DevOps CoE (he/him)20:05:57

Here is the collection of all the reference links that were shared / discussed during the #DOES21 event. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/devops-enterprise-summit-2021-reference-links-minus-books-pareek Enjoy Reading 🙂

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Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)15:05:06

Thank you for collecting and posting

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Siddharth, NatWest Group, DevOps CoE (he/him)15:05:20

anything for the community @nickeggleston 🙂