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#ask-the-speaker-plenary
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2022-05-10
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Anne Marie Cunningham08:05:25

hello everyone - looking forward to hearing from you later today!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair08:05:20

So excited to air your amazing story of NHS Wales and COVID vaccination this morning, Dr. Cunningham! 🎉

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair08:05:51

Good morning everyone! We just turned on the countdown stream — program begins at top of the hour — I’m super excited to share the program we’ve put together! 🎉

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Eliza Kruszelnicka08:05:57

morning everyone!

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Nilufer Osken08:05:38

Good morning everyone!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:24

Good morning!! 🎉

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:47

This was a fascinating set of data to pull from the speaker titles from Video Library…

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:09

PS: Generating that table of titles was surprisingly difficult — converting all the titles to ordinal numbers that could be sorted wasn’t as straightforward as I thought it would be!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:51

The third talk that has a CEO video thanking them will be revealed later today. 🙂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:03

This year, we have the highest percentage of talks come in the Call for Speakers!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:57

(Well, Dr. Richard Cook isn’t a Ph.D — he’s “only” a medical doctor. 🙂 cc @annemarie.cunningham 😆

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:06

Scenius is why I love this community!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:38

PS: congrats on the promotion, @scott.prugh! 🎉

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:06

Congratulations @scott.prugh 🙂 you are inspirations to so many of us.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:52

For your reference: our online Slack archive of this instance: https://devopsenterprise-archive.itrevolution.com/

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:30

Love this @genek - It has great quotes, experiences and lessons - Golden nuggets

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:15

A genuine puzzle / decision we’ll be pondering: to what extent should we try to recreate the amazing interaction that happens during general session talks, when we return to live events? (Which will be in October!!!)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:06

“Don’t use @ here.” 😂 (There will be consequences. 🙂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:26

Super funny — I almost typed in \@ here, if you know what I mean…. realized my error before I hit Enter. 🙂

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Luke Rettig - Target09:05:43

you don’t want to see @jeff.gallimore angry

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution, she/her)09:05:15

Chuffed is much preferred @lucas.rettig!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:02

“Hang out at the Dockside Bar!” 😂

Jim Moverley09:05:08

A few already at the DockSide! i'll be there most of the day 😄 pop by for a chat! \o/

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:13

Sorry: what is a “chin wag?” 😂

Jim Moverley09:05:56

"have a gas.."

Jim Moverley09:05:12

"chew some fat.."

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:23

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Eliza Kruszelnicka09:05:15

where do i get the journal? sorry missed it

andy henderson09:05:37

The Launch Darkly booth in the Expo

Ann Perry - IT Revolution09:05:17

Let's welcome @gus.paul, here to start us off with his talk on Automated Change Management

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Malte Fiala10:05:52

Hi @annp, I don't currently see this talk in the video archive. Will it be uploaded? All the best! Malte

Ann Perry - IT Revolution10:05:19

It will be uploaded very soon!

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:24

Good morning everyone 🙂

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:06

Looking forward @gus.paul - Interesting topic for all DevOps Enthusiasts (& GRC folks) 🙂

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:08

"not met anyone like Gus". Oh boy!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:40

Good morning, @gus.paul, Executive Director, Application Infrastructure! So true, I’ve never met anyone like Gus before — you’ll see why!!! It’s amazing. 🙏

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:57

> “The world was once free and full of possibility. Then came order, and after it, authority. Everything changed… until nothing changed at all…” > —from LEGO Movie

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:19

Morgan Stanley: now owns eTrade: “the original Robin Hood” 😂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:14

“sub-microsecond” — that’s 10e-6?

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:31

literally put the FPGAin a box next to the NYSE box in the same rack

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:36

hundreds of nanoseconds — tens of clock cycles. Crazy.

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:25

to be clear..controls good...interpretation / implemenation....there is more than one way to do it

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:41

“why do I need to get on a call every day and say ‘yes’ to everything, all the time? There had to be a better way.” 🙂

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:05

10 years I have been shaving this yak 🙂

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:24

“I knew there was a better way to do change management” 🙂

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:16

About 60% of our deployments are hands off/automated at this point. in terms of the actual push

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Giulio Vian, Unum09:05:54

is your dev background influencing the strive for agility @gus.paul?

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:17

@gus.paul what are the plans for the remaining 40%? and what are the primary obstacles for going hands off with those?

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:32

some of it is architectural...legacy applications etc. We have just started a modernisation program to help with that

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:52

some of it is just socialisation and prioritisation with the remaining teams...they are very busy 🙂

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:22

absolutely... in my head i am jsut going to fix this problem and go back to builidng and shipping code. as i say...10 years later...

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:50

More Approvers != More Safety!

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:43

One line of code 🙂 - I could relate well @gus.paul - is that an HTML line? (in my case it was)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:47

One of the things that blew me way that I learned from @gus.paul was the sophistication of their dev tooling — it seems they were a decade ahead of the industry, very much like Google. The PM of Dev Productivity at Google said of their situation: “we built things that were miraculous. But we are now like the Elves in Lord of the Rings; the Age of Orcs and Man are coming.” (Put another way, another Googler said, “we are now like the Galapgos Islands — and we’re trying to get back to the mainland.“)

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:47

Right...we built our own CI/CD platofrm aroud Jenkins....we had to because of all our custom deployment endpoints

Ann Marie Fred - Red Hat09:05:01

“That approver stayed forevermore” 😭 I feel this.

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Russell (Trayport)09:05:53

I completely changed our Change process after reading the DevOps handbook 2nd ed, earlier this year. Moved from SNoW and into Azure DevOps, so much quicker for the engineers, but still compliant with ISO27001

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:58

Ironically we have our own custom (ancient) platform...we are moving towards ServiceNow as a golden source of data....but likely will wrap it with our automation APIs

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:07

Thank you @russell.o.evans - In complex enterprise with varying platforms - convergence is challenging. SNOW seems to ruling that atm.

Giulio Vian, Unum09:05:45

SNow as system-of-record, to track changes (not approve them) is pretty fine

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:31

We find its just an easier conversation with external regulators at ht moment still to say we are using SNow

Russell (Trayport)09:05:57

Most of our Pull Requests are in AzDO, and that is a pipeline of most of our changes. If we need an approval for something (InfoSec etc), we @ them in the discussion and they then approve there.

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:59

@gvian yes thats exactly the plan!

Jason Cox - Disney09:05:36

SNOW rarely accurate, hard to use (must be a requirement for CMDBs) and missing depth-first-search capability (graph database) for things like transitive dependency discovery (think SBOM). Development needed in this space IMHO.

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:52

100% agree @jason.cox - very topical; Everytime when we want to see the relationship - it is another 2-3 months exercise with 1000 of systems running

Russell (Trayport)09:05:55

That's key, if it's hard/slow for engineers to do, they tend to not do it (or automate it) but you can't automate CC

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:55

“That was ITIL v2. Now we’re at ITIL v4.”

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:03

Just to be clear....#notanITILexpert 🙂

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:09

Neither am I. But the first book I wrote was called “Visible Ops”, based on create world class ops and security, based on ITIL processes. It was the best we had in 2004 to describe processes.

Eliza Kruszelnicka09:05:11

how easy/difficult was it to collect this data?

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:59

one of the (only) good things about our legacy tool - it is used for everything

Eliza Kruszelnicka09:05:57

nice. we dont. getting a baseline for anything is very difficult.

Ivan Krnic (Director of Engineering at CROZ)09:05:13

Haha, I have a ISO27001 audit next week... any hints? 😅

Luke Rettig - Target09:05:26

lots of 🍻 and 🍷

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:58

Lunch factor, Beer factor 🙂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:47

“batching up changes, into larger and larger changes.” “we tended to push changes to the weekend.”

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Ann Marie Fred - Red Hat09:05:03

I was once an ITIL expert… developed software at IBM to help companies be ITIL compliant. Then I spent a few years distancing myself from that. #scarredforlife

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:53

Remind me to tell you about a remarkable conversation I had with @dean.leffingwell about something very similar, but around RUP!

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Marcus Cziomer09:05:47

I don't think ITIL itself is the problem but more how we implement the principles, isn'it it? :)🙂

Ann Marie Fred - Red Hat09:05:25

Apparently it’s getting better. But back then, quite a few people called working with our software “Tivoli Hell”.

andy henderson09:05:47

"suffer the same change process no matter the change" - same words from our developers mouths!

Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:58

Yes!! So no to big centralized change batches! Localize the change approval!

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER09:05:03

"yes I approve this log file" I feel this in my soul

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:24

How many have you got a senior director approving "code" they have never looked at?

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:40

Hello, @vmshook — so good to see you!

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:18

We needed our definition of lead time as it was so long!

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:44

3.5 days JUST for approval chasing

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:52

the releases is all built and tested

Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:24

LeadTime analysis is so powerful!

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:36

turning aroud the risk assessment so that the system works it out for you, instead of you guestimating...this was a game changer

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:49

“we have all the history of deployments / changes, as well as their outcomes.” (they modeled what factors led to great / bad deployment outcomes!!) They flagged the low risk changes, so they could focus review effort on higher risk changes. Amazing.

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:55

we still expect manaul approvals in future....but not for the vast majority of changes

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:18

identifying “standard work”!

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:44

right. not quite standard change, because every software change slightly differnet

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:06

the other thing about using historical data like incidents is that the risk is dynamic

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:20

if you have a big incident your next change will be rated higher risk

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:31

“we backtested the model against 200K changes over the last two years.” 🤯

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:56

one advantage of being so big....our data is statistically significant 🙂

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:09

TCM = our internal change management tool

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:15

slipped into the lingo there!

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:30

Data Driven Risk Assessment - Love it; Need to share this video with Service Management Team 🙂

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:31

What an amazing twist to this story: “some were convinced that human reviewers would out-perform an automated review process.” I’ve never heard this before. Startling, and yet, quite understandable!

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:20

people like what they know

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:32

i can imagine that analysis must have been fascinating. any big surprises in the correlations?

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Pulak - Accenture DevSecOps Practice Lead09:05:50

@gus.paul your "real" shift left is awesome. So I am (shameless plug) presenting at 3.20 today to talk about shift left security and the reason its titled "ludicrous mde" is because we just trusted the tool dashboards and NO manual approvals

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:53

as soon as we rolled out the risk assessment we saw people adjusting their deployment behaviour

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:18

Risk Score as a Service(RSAAS)!!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:32

1500 changes; not one change related incident. (!!!). Average is typically 1.5% (!!!) 🤯

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:12

Its amazing when you push accountability downwards . You get better results, speed,. accountability, performance and less risk!!

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:18

this slide is what sold our senior leadership....risk reduction not just speed

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Marcus Cziomer09:05:21

Wondering how we do automated risk assessment if you don't have a critical mass of changes (like less than 100)? I.e. not software development changes but patching of infrastructure and applications (i.e. SAP patches)?

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:51

good question...that is one of my asks on my last slide...its something we are about to start tackling

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:44

“it’s not about going fast; this is about reducing the risk”. Lovely. (telling story of fixing issue is minutes; “this is something that would sometimes would take weeks!“)

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Chris Leeworthy (he/him)09:05:22

This does seem very reliant on an effective risk assessment process, did it take a long time to get that process where you needed it to be?

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:19

We had a lot of data to back test to give us confidence

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:45

most of the inputs are not adjustable

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:54

in terms of you cannot fake them

Chris Leeworthy (he/him)09:05:11

So you were building on foundations you already had rather than trying to get the whole thing in from the ground up?

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:31

very often, teams would be scared of waking up their remote MD to approve a change

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant09:05:37

Wow this is awesome! One of my challenges, although external (while working with auditors), has been to quantify the risk instead of just looking at if we broke the process. Never had success following that path. But so great to see that there are people who have had success. Makes me want to continue to believe 😄

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:40

outage rather than distrub the boss

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:12

@gus.paul - is this practice now fully adopted across all the teams?

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:35

IT's genreally available to all teams.. one of the requirements is your deployment has to be fully automated

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:46

so some teams are still catching up

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:05

we still have some teams aodpting wait and see as well

Giulio Vian, Unum09:05:19

with zero-days vuln in dependent libraries you must have some kind of expedite pipelines or you are putting your company at risk

Ann Marie Fred - Red Hat10:05:39

I love how their standard pipeline was able to get code to production in less than 2 hours. With a standard pipeline that fast, there’s no need for the expedited pipeline.

Giulio Vian, Unum10:05:34

there is a lot of variations in apps, some regression suites takes a lot more than 2 hours, so standard may not apply to those

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:42

I think this is why I said, “I’ve never met anyone like @gus.paul before” — so passionate about doing the right things in the right way, and also so able to be empathetic/respectful, and also irreverent and honest about shortcomings of status quo. So disarming, and effective!

Toli09:05:50

@gus.paul Love the focus on reducing risk rather than increasing speed. Zero incidents - by measuring this have the teams gamed the system? Raising the threshold for what is regarded as an ‘incident’? How did you get over that?

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley10:05:52

the only real way to game the system would be to under report incidents. and incident reporting has it's own governance process

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley10:05:01

We are very confident these outcomes are genuine

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Toli10:05:04

Brilliant - looking forward to the incident government process talk! Would like to know more

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)09:05:59

@gus.paul it’s ok. you can say, “i told you so.” 🙂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:45

I love these testimonials!

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Rudi van der Kaaden - TOPdesk09:05:57

Specifically these are golden! How often are changes blocked over the assumptions/concerns that were proven wrong here... Great to see that you were able to get positive feedback!

Quinn Daley09:05:54

I think I missed something because I had to go afk for a moment - is Systematic Changes a documented set of principles (outside of MS)? does anyone have a link?

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:20

the closest analogy is Standard Software Change in ITIL 4

Quinn Daley09:05:36

thanks! I’ll take a look

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:40

we called it systematic change to make it distinct from Standard Change

Quinn Daley10:05:08

and thank you for the talk - it was super interesting and very relatable!

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley10:05:10

glad to be able to share it

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:59

We always hypothesized that speed and locality of change was key because: 1) people closer to the change understand the change best, 2) the system state is understood better now rather than later(system state decays with time), 3) putting accountability and responsibility with the same person/team creates true empowerment and allows system imporvement

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:11

if you know anyone at the Federal reserve or the OCC in the supervision departments let me know 😆

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:17

What a fantastic initiative to help spread these practices across financial services, and help get regulators onboard.

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Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley09:05:33

to be fair we have been talking to them and they & our audit teams are very supportive of this approach

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:42

Wow, thank you so much, @gus.paul!!! 🎉

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect09:05:45

Thank you @gus.paul - Excellent session

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution09:05:01

🌟Next up, please welcome the team from Virgin Media O2@chanade.hemming, Head of Data Products and @richard.he, Head of Data Services 🌟

Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee09:05:05

@gus.paul Great talk!! Nice work changing change and making people's lives more humane in IT!!

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Jason Cox - Disney09:05:07

Thank you @gus.paul 👏 ❤️

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Sandeep Dabas09:05:32

Thanks @gus.paul 👏

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair09:05:43

Hello, @chanade.hemming and @richard.he!!

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Chanade Hemming09:05:43

nice one @gus.paul, really enjoyed it 🙌

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Rachel Etherton10:05:14

Great talk @gus.paul. We are having the same conversations at L&G. I will be sharing your talk with my team.

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:29

Welcome to @chanade.hemming, @richard.he - Looking forward to your session - Data is close to so many of DevOps enthusiast and change agent heart 🙂

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Moira Cheng10:05:37

Great talk @gus.paul - definitely keen to connect about your Programme in general and find out about regulatory quirks. Will explain in a 121 chat.

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Giulio Vian, Unum10:05:54

loved, thanks @gus.paul & @genek for this

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Anne Marie Cunningham10:05:55

Fantastic @gus.paul to hear about changes in a highly regulated sector - lots to learn here for those of us in health space.

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Ivan Krnic (Director of Engineering at CROZ)10:05:18

Thanks @gus.paul , DevOps is so no "some pipelines buried in the IT"... get Business on board

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Vishvendra Singh10:05:32

Great talk, Thanks @gus.paul

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Marcelo Pazzinatto10:05:45

Great talk indeed @gus.paul, very insightful and surely resonates with me...

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Manikandan Balasubramanian10:05:15

Thanks @gus.paul :thumbsup:

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:22

@chanade.hemming hinting at the vast technology landscapes created by vast mobile company mergers in the 1980s - 2000s; I’ve always been amazed at how even billing happens at companies like this in this US — stitched together from many mainframes…

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Ben Grinnell - North Highland and DOES PC10:05:43

So much resonated, thanks @gus.paul

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:00

“Blockbuster could have averted their [disastrous] fate had they taken their data seriously.” One of the things that didn’t make the conference was my Idealcast interview of Risto Siilasmaa, board chair of Nokia. Such an amazing interview, about similar themes. But no room in plenary schedule, because of all these great talks!! 🙂

Giulio Vian, Unum10:05:46

keep it for next year 😉

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:16

@chanade.hemming - When you say Data Products - are you referring to Data Platform as Products? or the Data Assets as product?

Chanade Hemming10:05:42

Data Products - using data as the main ingredient. It's is a way of achieving an end goal through the primary use of data. can come in various forms such as; APIs - so could be a machine learning service providing the best product to recommend to a customer... Dashboards -visualising a data model e.g. using Looker Storytelling around statistical analysis in my team, it's predominantly APIs, so as an example, if you think about all the data we have available to us, we then use that to make recommendations, this is exposed as an API and teams/channels use this to show a product recommendation to a customer on the website, an agent in the call centre.

Chanade Hemming10:05:24

is that helpful ?

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:33

Thank you - makes sense; Appreciated @chanade.hemming

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:48

"Data" as Products

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Chanade Hemming10:05:28

ALWAYS! Dj Patil 🙌

Jason Cox - Disney10:05:29

"Bring a legacy company, with a complex system into today's world" - 100%!

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:40

so interesting when you consider the company officially started in 2021. 🤯

Jason Cox - Disney10:05:50

Good reminder that the goal is the speed of innovation and improvement, not a set destination. A vector not a scalar. 😉

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:50

So interesting how often event sourcing / pubsub / Kafka has come up in this conference over the years.

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:39

indeed. in many cases as a response to a rise in complexity.

Luke Rettig - Target10:05:09

vividly remember Scott Haven’s 2019 talk

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Anne Marie Cunningham10:05:35

also in health https://youtu.be/nF7pzDjshrA - NerveCentre is fast developing electronic health care platform - their CEO and founder speaks here about use of eventbased architecture and Kafka

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Anne Marie Cunningham10:05:08

@chanade.hemming lots of interest in using health data for prediction too - still a lot to be developed in this. Focus on stratifying population - looking at past needs and behaviours - and then using that to shape digital journeys (even if that is just where your phone call gets routed when you contact your GP practice) - Bristol were looking at this but I am not sure they got to delivery/

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Chanade Hemming10:05:19

we've built something in the contact centre space, would be happy to talk about it with you if helpful! getting customers to the best agent for them/the problem

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:34

IMHO - Unlocking data in an enterprise is a real challenge in number of organizations; Data Liberty/Freedom

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Luke Rettig - Target10:05:07

indeed - i believe we are going to see more and more data architecture and data enablement talks/topics as organizations mature

Chanade Hemming10:05:09

an emotional rollercoaster 😄

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Luke Rettig - Target10:05:37

soooo many different patterns to access analytical data at an enterprise - emotionally draining

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Chanade Hemming10:05:04

tenacity...

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:37

…and how event driven services enable decoupling services from each other.

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:38

sometime the modern architectures (Event Driven) are done by traditional architects - @genek - so you could imagine the output/outcome of those systems

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant10:05:58

dbt is one of the most amazing innovations that have come in the data space from the perspective of data consumers. you can finally apply common engineering practices to querying for data analytics.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:01

So great to learn about this — I hadn’t heard of this until we recorded this talk — DBT and Cloud Composer were two amazing gems in this talk.

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER10:05:17

"self-service culture" love it

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:44

In how many organizations - still DBA/Data administrator control/approve data schema /data changes to even DEV region ?

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant10:05:44

i have seen a lot of teams now move towards a DBRE kind of a model where the DBRE is the approver because bad schema changes can break things. but they are vertically aligned to the product so they have to have the product context.

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:07

agree, but uptake from enterprise data community is either slow/no

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley10:05:51

we are almost entirely liquibase for our DB changes now

Gus Paul - Morgan Stanley10:05:57

goes in the pipeline like eveything else

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:52

We use Flyway DB - but we have not scaled that yet to rest of the organizations

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant10:05:44

curious how does Flyway is different from ORMs that generate and manage schema changes? How does it help?

Giulio Vian, Unum10:05:12

how you prevented security problems ?

Chanade Hemming10:05:16

we've got security as part of our wider team under the chief digital officer, so we embed those people into our teams when we're building new stuff/setting up platforms/tools etc.

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Chanade Hemming10:05:32

on a journey to bring security to the left!

Giulio Vian, Unum10:05:04

fantastic! and probably less expensive compared to other approaches

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:14

(This part hurts: all the pain associated with complex chains of ETL jobs…. Cloud Composer is Apache Airflow, putting all of this into a DAG: like makefile for ETL jobs.) “saves 95% of effort that you don’t need to worry about anymore.”

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:28

“this isn’t about protecting so no one can use it; it’s labeling data so that people can use it, and be safe. protection and speed.”

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:56

@richard.he - this is brilliant; thanks for those explanations; Love this; need to explore further and re-watch this talk few time to completely unpack

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Chanade Hemming10:05:07

Richard has a YouTube channel, you'll enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Ro4fdBdC8

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:40

Thank you @chanade.hemming for sharing appreciated.

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Richard He10:05:59

Thank a lot @lbmkrishna glad you found it was useful 🙂 yup there was a lot of content packed in one slide 😅

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:42

@chanade.hemming @richard.he - My thoughts on data few years before I shared for your pleasure of reading and nodding 🙂 https://bmk.nz/2020/03/16/our-devops-journey-is-incomplete-without-data/

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Toli10:05:14

@richard.he & @chanade.hemming love the idea of self serve data. Have you got any tips about getting people and teams to be comfortable with being curious with data and build their dashboards?

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Luke Rettig - Target10:05:28

Interested in this thread as well…. not an expert at all but step one was making data discoverable (similar to an API registry) has been a huge unlock within the teams I work with

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Richard He10:05:10

@toli from my experience, I think one of the key things get people interested is lead by example, for example build a few things with sufficient value and quick to demo to get people interested, share with the whole department / teams to show what the power it. Then generally there is a lot of people follow.

Richard He10:05:04

The other thing is about communicating to making very clear it's ok to make mistakes the data platform team is there to make sure people don’t really make very bad mistakes (like protecting our data asset, by utilising service like VPC SC https://cloud.google.com/vpc-service-controls in Google cloud for example) then there will be more people willing to try things

Toli10:05:35

Interesting! How closely do the data platform team work with the cross functional teams? @chanade.hemming said that you have cross functional teams with Data Engineers and Data Scientists embedded in them (which is awesome)

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Giulio Vian, Unum10:05:44

a related problem is understanding data sometime data sourcing from system A cannot be used as is, so there is a danger in letting people building business decision tools without guidance

Giulio Vian, Unum10:05:11

I am curious how @chanade.hemming you managed this?

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Chanade Hemming10:05:01

@toli SO important, my love for analytics engineering has rocketed this last year 🚀 ❤️ and of course our people all over platform, the tools we choose etc!

Chanade Hemming10:05:13

@gvian we have many places where data lives in this company, one goal is - one safe place for data... <<< we're on a journey, so we have one source of truth!

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee10:05:55

Focus, Flow and Joy!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:07

“We can deliver value… without having to fill out a lot of forms.” 😂

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:04

Interestingly most of these forms were inherited in practice over the years and no one stood up and challenged those; Those who challenged made life better for them and others - We can deliver value - without filling out more forms/approvals

Chanade Hemming10:05:31

we are the change! 😅 it's hard work, it's important work... conways law 👀

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BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:29

@chanade.hemming @richard.he - people like you make us to believe in our dream - Unlocking Data

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:18

“we’ve tackled problems like pricing and recommendations… ”

bala gopal10:05:27

@richard.he and @chanade.hemming: how do u setup a framework to ensure the data protection and policy is managed in self service setup ???

Richard He10:05:44

Hi @catchmebala the first step is sensitive data detection and tagging, that is absolute core of everything else (we use https://cloud.google.com/dlp to automate most of the process with some human input). Then you can have user groups defined based on the tier of these tagged. In other words by default there is no access to sensitive data. Obviously there are other things requires doing on categorising domain areas / business areas because not everyone should have access to everything even if they are not sensitive data. It’s a really long process and quite hard to get right but I have to say it is something so important and cannot be ignored

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:07

“we’ve achieved quite a lot; less handing off to other teams; delight of data scientist coding and deploying within hours; less forms; gaining trust, thru hearts and minds. “now people queuing at door; product recommendations; data democratization across every corner, getting comfortable with data driven decisions.”

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Luke Rettig - Target10:05:17

“people queuing up at the door to do things with us, which is awesome and scary” - a product managers dream

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:18

“start small, release things, build trust.” common pattern in these journeys.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:41

“I wish I could tell you more; the customer views it as a competitive advantage, which is good; it shows we’re creating value.” (YES!! 🎉 )

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Toli10:05:51

Beautiful slides btw 💪

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Chanade Hemming10:05:10

i break the rules a bit with brand template 😉 rebellion and all that

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Toli10:05:14

That’s The Way

Anne Marie Cunningham10:05:32

@chanade.hemming I dropped the branding from the slides too 😅

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:13

From CEO Lutz Schuler!

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Chanade Hemming10:05:23

where's the video?? 😅

Chanade Hemming10:05:40

me reading this is not Lutz style 😆

Marcelo Pazzinatto10:05:42

@richard.he the need to move from 'file transfer' to 'data streaming' is very real especially with legacy systems....great insights from your talk.

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Richard He10:05:08

thank you Marcelo! There’s always going to be some files / batch based stuff but it’s very important to keep an event first mindset because when the data gets into things like analytical databases, it is no long useful for event driven use cases.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:49

“when the CEO comes down and congratulates your team, it’s very exciting” 🎉 Congrats, @chanade.hemming @richard.he!

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bala gopal10:05:13

Love this

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Chanade Hemming10:05:55

i say this too much 😆

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andy henderson10:05:43

great presentation @chanade.hemming @richard.he!

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Chanade Hemming10:05:36

thanks loads! so glad you enjoyed it

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect10:05:13

Brilliant one @chanade.hemming @richard.he - Thank you for sharing; It is inspiration to us. THANK YOU; Your CEO video is like icing on the cake - all your efforts - kudos to your team.

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Chanade Hemming10:05:32

thanks loads! so glad you enjoyed it. this kind of feedback makes our work and sharing it the best!

Gleb Andreev10:05:44

@chanade.hemming @richard.he thanks for the great presentation and batch of information to think about :)

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Chanade Hemming10:05:07

thanks loads! so glad you enjoyed it

Jason Cox - Disney10:05:54

Great talk @chanade.hemming @richard.he!

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Chanade Hemming10:05:03

thanks loads! so glad you enjoyed it

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:59

Congrats @chanade.hemming@richard.he: “We are on the way to upgrade the UK; you are leading the way!“: CEO, Lutz Schuler!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:37

(uh, that conference I was referring to is this one. 🙂

Balázs Cziráky10:05:37

@chanade.hemming @richard.he, this was amazing, thank you so much! :)

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Chanade Hemming10:05:57

thanks loads! so glad you enjoyed it

Balázs Cziráky12:05:20

@chanade.hemming Yes I did! And it opened my view even more on continuously foster to get to the next level, until you get there... Until you are best. And your TEAM is! 🙂 So really amazing what you have done and achieved and I'm very happy to had a chance to see and hear it.

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Moira Cheng10:05:11

Thank you @chanade.hemming @richard.he you've opened my eyes to how data could be used with the right technology to transform legacy. Love the insight on using APIs and cloud technologies to join up the old and the new. Very insightful.

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Chanade Hemming10:05:41

thank loads Moira, that means so much! happy to talk any time, here, LinkedIn, Twitter.. wherever suits!

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Moira Cheng10:05:42

Would love to connect @chanade.hemming - My talk is tomorrow 10.05am. Hope you get to listen to it too.

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Chanade Hemming10:05:19

will absolutely be on for it!

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Chanade Hemming10:05:31

remind me, what's the title again

Moira Cheng10:05:03

Enabling IT Operations - A Transformation to DevOps :)

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution10:05:14

It's an honor to introduce @annemarie.cunningham, Associate Medical Director, Digital Health and Care Wales, here to talk about Supporting the Delivery of the COVID Vaccine in Wales

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:21

When I saw this tweet from @annemarie.cunningham, I had to learn what she was referring to — and it utterly blew my mind. So excited about this story! https://twitter.com/RealGeneKim/status/1484182211599294467

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Philip Day10:05:33

I think that was the first DOES talk I watched (probably a year later)

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff10:05:35

The first plenary talks (and slides) are already available in the Video Library for sharing! Automated Change Management - https://videos.itrevolution.com/watch/708122268/ Gus Paul, Executive Director Application Infrastructure, Morgan Stanley Bringing a Legacy Company Into Today’s World - https://videos.itrevolution.com/watch/708122289/ Chanade Hemming, Head of Data Products, Virgin Media O2 Richard He, Head of Data Services, Virgin Media O2

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:47

Motto of NHS Hack Days: “Making NHS IT Less Bad.” 😂 So good!!!

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER10:05:14

like "suck less to develop at NSA" but far more professional. ha

Anne Marie Cunningham10:05:20

hello folks - I'm here - such an honour to be asked to speak about our work

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:44

“i moved from maverick to the mainstream… but there’s still some maverick there 😉.” :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:19

Summer 2020; UK government already purchasing millions of vaccine doses, even before approval… incredible mobilization, getting ready for largest vaccination program ever.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:05

“There were many things we did not know; when would vaccines be available? which ones? can they be mixed, matched? who would be eligible and when?” (massive uncertainty)

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:00

This is incredible — in the US, scheduling systems were so problematic, most mass vaccination centers were just walk-in!

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andy henderson10:05:14

16 weeks to go from buy/build decision to outcome! amazing 🤯

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:42

“Gill knew the team inside and out; she knew their strengths and weaknesses; she was trusted by everyone around her.” <---- one of the key insights from me in this talk. People are not cogs — quite the opposite. So good, @annemarie.cunningham.

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Ben Grinnell - North Highland and DOES PC10:05:31

Would love to hear more about that buy/build decision - so often see those go the other way because in many organisations the further away from the teams you get the less confidence the leadership seem to have in them

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:35

I love that Dr. @annemarie.cunningham is talking about using the http://GOV.UK Notify services that @mail832 presented on last year.

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bala gopal10:05:54

@annemarie.cunningham Can smell AI for scheduling 🙂 ... would be happy to learn a bit more if possible

Anne Marie Cunningham10:05:15

@ben.grinnell the key part in the buy-build decision was that the programme delegated the advice on this to our organisation and partners - within our subgroup there was the trust that we could deliver. As Gill said it did give her quite a few sleepless nights in the week after!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:41

Twitter thread on how @annemarie.cunningham and team hit the rate limits of Notify service for mailers — you might get a kick out of this, @scott.prugh! 🙂 https://twitter.com/RealGeneKim/status/1519308963728134145

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:06

> And it was so amazing to see what extent they used the amazing https://twitter.com/GOVUK > GDS Notify service, sending out 4MM letters, 15MM text message reminders, letting citizens know that vaccination appointments have been made for them. > > Go @JuliaFromIT and team!!!

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Ben Grinnell - North Highland and DOES PC10:05:52

@annemarie.cunningham Good t hear, that delegation is a great decision too rarely made - "move decisions to data"

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:45

“move authority to information, not information to authority”

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:16

“Using Office 365 for auth.”

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:30

“Let’s just record vaccinations on paper…”

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee10:05:32

Oh no. Reminds me of "just writing credit card numbers on paper."

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:06

(we’ll just enter it later… 😱 ). Wonderful work getting them onboard, @annemarie.cunningham!

Christian Knuth10:05:05

COVID is probably the most striking use case for DevOps, being fast and reacting flexible.

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Benedict Dodd10:05:59

But also an amazing case for dedicated cross-functional teams

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Anne Marie Cunningham10:05:07

true true true - we have to make sure that we don't forget the lessons we have learned

Anne Marie Cunningham10:05:34

I@m sorry during my talk that I didn't manage to slip in @mik’s bring the work to the people, not the people to the work 🙂

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER10:05:36

love the acknowledgement of the bottleneck (supply) and maximizing usage

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:01

+100. @annemarie.cunningham’s description of all the unknowns was so riveting and incredible.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair10:05:47

Scheduling… and payments. (!!!)

bala gopal10:05:35

The new holy grail .... data data and data

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Giulio Vian, Unum11:05:11

where data lies

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:57

there are a lot of “we did something we hadn’t done before’s” in this story 🤯 🙌

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Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:57

well if we had done it all before then it wouldn't be a very interesting story 😅

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee11:05:36

Wow! Government starting with user needs first!! Way to go @annemarie.cunningham!!

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Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:40

that's it 🙂 - there is another story from Wales coming up later https://members.itrevolution.com/live/watch?track=1

Julia Harrison14:05:45

@scott.prugh It's the first design principle https://www.gov.uk/guidance/government-design-principles And there's even a poster for it https://designnotes.blog.gov.uk/2019/09/18/new-design-principles-posters/ 😁 (I'm no longer working in digital government, but my love for those folks runs deep 😍)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:27

@annemarie.cunningham asking what was the real risk of doctors editing the vaccine record that they didn’t perform — “you could be sent to Siberia for this”, but courageous leaders made the right and expedient call. 🎉

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Quinn Daley11:05:52

this really is an extraordinary success story @annemarie.cunningham - it almost sounds like you achieved something impossible… I couldn’t even begin to imagine the amount of “hope generation” needed to make this happen

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Benedict Dodd11:05:54

...and mitigating any government's "Department of No"

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Anne Marie Cunningham11:05:00

thank you! yes - lots of hard work by some very dedicated people - and not just in our organisation - we have people all across wales working in partnership with us

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Benedict Dodd11:05:54

2nd-ed! DHCW has an amazingly dedicated team of people who genuinely care about the people they're supporting

Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:26

thank you @ben.dodd - so very very proud of all my DHCW colleagues. I think we are so lucky in Wales to have such digital skill within the NHS (and out in the health boards too of course)

Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:17

@quinn.daley do you know my friend Polly Thompson? formerly off CAB

Quinn Daley13:05:10

@annemarie.cunningham I don’t, sadly! I’ve only been here since Oct 2020 so if they left before then our paths may not have crossed

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER11:05:58

big issue - too many clicks. I see that at my GPs office Every Time.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:32

(PS: there’s another amazing presentation coming from UK HMRC from @andrew.letherby and Caitlin Smith about how closely technologists worked with policy makers on Day 3! A wonderful theme.)

Anne Marie Cunningham11:05:42

@vmshook it's great to be able to build the software and make these things work for people

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Moira Cheng11:05:53

Completely love how 'human-centric' and Customer Experienced focused this is. GP centric, Receptionist, End users being vaccinated etc. Way to go @annemarie.cunningham such an amazing achievement & success story

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Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:41

thankyou @moira.cheng - all lessons hard won :-)

Chris Leeworthy (he/him)11:05:25

@annemarie.cunningham Amazing work. This also demonstrates really well that nearly everything is an IT process these days

Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:55

thank you - the key is getting trust in the digital team :-)

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:34

"Black Ops" :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)11:05:37

:rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Graeme Morton (Integration Engineer NHS Scotland)11:05:11

You can buy it ... it is called the integration team 😄

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Anne Marie Cunningham11:05:45

@graeme.morton ain't that the truth!

Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:34

this slide came from my friend Matt Stibbs talk at am InterOp summit at Google in London a few years ago - @genek ou were asking why is it so hard to send information around in health systems - Matt explains here https://youtu.be/mHWget8GobM

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:40

“You can’t buy a bottle of Interoperability” • @annemarie.cunningham

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:50

One way integration of data from one system to another — how hard can that be? 😆

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piotr.papros11:05:52

I am very impressed with the resilience, positiveness, and go-to attitude presented at @annemarie.cunningham presentation. This is a much different face of the Government from what we used to see. Well done!

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Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:24

thank you - it was great to see the confidence put in our teams to deliver - and then that the delivery happened - this is how we build trust - competency and alignment 🙂

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:17

@annemarie.cunningham I’m dying to ask: what was the difficulty of creating that integration — going from “send out a CSV file every evening” to integrating those systems together. 🙏

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Graeme Morton (Integration Engineer NHS Scotland)11:05:57

Not everything in the NHS is a CSV 😅

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Anne Marie Cunningham11:05:25

the challenge was for the GP software company to receive the standard message and process it...

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:51

Ah. Got it — thank you!!!

Anne Marie Cunningham11:05:49

but your point on how hard can it be is a good one @genek - issue is that though we have a standard for messaging we don't have a standard for how recorded in the software and for suppliers to reengineer their (not always very modern) data architecture is a challenge

Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:42

@genek in England the supplier that told us we will accept messages was using the CSV every evening solution in England (and they keep on using it there until very late last year) - but they would not offer it to us in Wales 😞 - it's what we still do with our other GP supplier who do not want to receive the data as a message.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair12:05:12

What a challenge! Problems spanning multiple vendors. Nuff said! It’s complicated! 🙂 Thank you for all the amazing work you did — what an amazing and heroic tale!!

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Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:36

“CyclOps” where DevOps meets observability meets Greek Mythology

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Chris Leeworthy (he/him)11:05:12

We have DevOps and ChatOps, and GitOps - someone really needs to invent CyclOps! 😄

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Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:14

“Wales is winning the global vaccination race” IT saving lives

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Christian Knuth11:05:30

@annemarie.cunningham: Thank you, your team and all involved for your work here! You all literally saved lives with your software! What could be more rewarding? Be proud of yourselves!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:02

Thank you so much for telling us the amazing, heroic story of the NHS Wales vaccination program, Dr. @annemarie.cunningham!!! Utterly amazing.

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Jason Cox - Disney11:05:19

Awesome @annemarie.cunningham! Thank you!

Anne Marie Cunningham11:05:47

If you would like to help us with NHS Hack Day (or UK Health Camp - getting going in London again this summer ) - or working with us in the UK Faculty of Clinical Informatics

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Chanade Hemming11:05:11

incredible story @annemarie.cunningham, love the pivot you've made here personally and the impact you've had through software on people's lives! 👏 ❤️

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Ben Grinnell - North Highland and DOES PC11:05:36

Amazing story thanks @annemarie.cunningham should inspire many

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Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:12

thank you! - are you presenting?

Ben Grinnell - North Highland and DOES PC17:05:44

Yes, On Thursday morning, and hosting a birds of a feature session in the afternoon on Sourcing of the IT Workforce

Benedict Dodd11:05:36

Great story and outcomes @annemarie.cunningham!

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Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:11

looking forward to your talk too!

Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff11:05:52

Supporting the Delivery of COVID Vaccine in Wales: The Welsh Immunisation System Dr. Anne Marie Cunningham, Digital Health and Care Wales, Associate Medical Director 🎉 Now available for sharing: https://videos.itrevolution.com/watch/708122304/

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Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:35

already started sharing - thank you for getting this out so fast!

Ann Perry - IT Revolution11:05:26

And now, a special message from Andy Nicklin, British Military. If you would like to help, you can reach him via email at: <mailto:andrew.nicklin977@mod.gov.uk|andrew.nicklin977@mod.gov.uk>

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Anne Marie Cunningham11:05:38

@jason.cox our lead developer is also Jason Cox - can't see him in the slack yet but maybe you can say hello to each other!

Anne Marie Cunningham12:05:38

it's @jason.cox700... cause Jason Cox was gone!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:10

Some of the humanitarian problems being worked on: • How can we offer early warning systems to civilian populations at risk in Ukraine, so give guidance so they can seek safety • Coordinating humanitarian and refugee support resources for Ukranians • Supporting tracking evidence of atrocities happening so that it’s available to criminal courts, in a survivable way to support justice in the future

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James Long11:05:56

Sounds like an amazing opportunity to apply DevOps practices to public service!

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Jason Cox - Disney11:05:49

👏 thank you Andy Nicklin!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:31

To learn how you might be able to help with these humanitarian efforts, email <mailto:andrew.nicklin977@mod.gov.uk|andrew.nicklin977@mod.gov.uk> , maybe a short note saying “I’m in.” Thank you!!!

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER11:05:46

I can imagine the levels of approvals 😉

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Matt Cobby (Director of Engineering, Deloitte)11:05:39

It's not often you see military tech reaching out...

Ann Perry - IT Revolution11:05:55

🌟 Next up, we welcome back @abd3721, author of "Mastering Salesforce DevOps", here to talk about DevOps for Salesforce and other Low-code Platforms 🌟

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Gillian Nieboer11:05:26

Hi @abd3721 👋:skin-tone-2:

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Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:48

Hey there. Nice to meet you @gillian.nieboer

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee11:05:29

I'm so excited for this!! DevOps for Low Code is a huge problem of our times a SaaS and Low Code takes over more and more of our integrations.

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Anshul11:05:29

@abd3721 - on Downsides of Low Code, when you say less speed, what does that mean?

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:19

Low code systems typically need to include a lot of hidden internal computation to make them flexible. They won’t be as fast as something that’s custom built to meet a single need

bala gopal11:05:24

Low Code needs pro-code ideology.. still needs the engineering skills.. all the low code providers are still building capability to address security, scalability . Also still the governance of such platforms is at early infancy ... ..

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Matt Cobby (Director of Engineering, Deloitte)11:05:26

The citizen developer is a major force now but it runs into the same problems we had before DevOps. Very interested how we can everything-as-code, migrate configuration and automate deployments.

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Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)11:05:22

Love the converging trends from both COTS and custom sides!

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Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:38

Who else wants to see large fluffy stuffed mascots at future DOES events?

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Gillian Nieboer11:05:04

When will we meet again real life?

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:58

❤️ Nuance - different talent pool for salesforce vs mainstream IT

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:22

The difference in the talent pool of low code vs. pro code platforms is massive. Can’t overstate how important it is to build tools that meet the expectations of that community

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:07

I totally understand. Not in the same context but I have spent a lot of time observing that often technologies fail because they are too early or too mature or too difficult because the creators did not understand how their target users are from what they understand them to be.

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)11:05:14

“easy ➡️ fast ➡️ more ➡️ complex”

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Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:35

Anyone ever feel like they’re working on systems that are like Jenga towers?

Pulak - Accenture DevSecOps Practice Lead11:05:36

The architect in me thinks that the low code movement might bring some risks to ops . While its very inclusive for non techies to be able to bring some rapid dev, they might not necessarily be able to think and support ops (it takes DOES for people in the conventional IT industry to do that). While it might eliminate the "developers-with-pagers" paradigm, I still wonder are we headed for some interesting times if the "70% of all new apps .." prediction comes true

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:45

Low code SaaS systems will definitely change the landscape and challenges of maintaining systems

Pulak - Accenture DevSecOps Practice Lead11:05:52

@abd3721 any tips on what to/not to do ? given the massive SFDC growth owing to the pandemic , even more important to do

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:00

I’ve got a ton of thoughts and would be happy to talk with you (or anyone else) at more length

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:42

Start with just understanding how different the challenges are: tech differences, skill differences, etc

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:25

“densest population of furry characters” 😆

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)11:05:03

“the software development lifecycle - how hard could it be?” :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:32

“relatively early in their skills development”

Christian Warnholz11:05:54

Hi @abd3721, I am a No-Code Dev ("Consultant") for Salesforce and I read your book until you start writing about using code. I was disappointed that you need to use code to handle DevOps for a low-code platform. I know there is Copado or Gearset to solve this... but the our journey with the goal to using repositories, unlocked packages, scratch orgs, test automations in a deployment pipieline etc. seems impossible to achieve 😞 at least doing it while also developing new business features

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:23

The challenges and limitations in managing this have created a market for commercial tools (like you point out) and is still under active exploration. The open source tools are not so well developed yet

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:04

“deployment errors” “missing dependent field” “malformed XML” “unknown error”

Pulak - Accenture DevSecOps Practice Lead11:05:32

"Unknown error" is everyone's favorite 😄

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:37

@abd3721 i am curious - how are environments replicated or how is pairity maintained in the salesforce world? tooling, etc.? is copado the answer?

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:40

Salesforce has some standard ways of replicating sandbox environments. But that’s a complete overwrite of the sandbox. You typically need to also move incremental changes to sync environments

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:57

100K lines of XML… or longer…

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)11:05:06

“xml merge - how hard could it be?” :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

BMK-BNZ-ValueStreamArchitect11:05:06

DevOps tricks do not work on Salesforce 🙂

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:10

You’d be shocked how much time Salesforce people spend in XML hell

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant11:05:14

XML merge :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Chris Leeworthy (he/him)11:05:31

Surely the bigger advantage for low code solutions is that folks with extremely good knowledge of their business domain can leverage their knowledge without having to get it translated through an IT/Dev/Tech team?

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:48

100%. The ability to allow someone who knows the problem to also be able to implement their own solution is a massive benefit

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:06

That efficiency makes up for most other inefficiencies

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:33

I didn’t realize how problematic XML merges were until we wrote DevOps Handbook — had to have Jez Humble explain it to me 10 times… Then it hit me…

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Giulio Vian, Unum11:05:18

you never had fun with BizTalk, have you?

Eliza Kruszelnicka11:05:49

DEvOps mind tricks lol

Giulio Vian, Unum11:05:52

fantastic delivery @abd3721

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee11:05:03

I think the XML Merge problem is a good example of lack of modularity

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:48

a little more detail, please?

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)11:05:00

but, hey, you also have one big monolithic database. so :man-shrugging:

Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)11:05:57

It's exactly the opposite of the kind of separation of concerns one might get from a well=built language like Clojure 😉

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:58

Modularizing the XML into smaller chunks is one of the big innovations that Salesforce pushed out with their DX initiative. Commercial tools parse the XML and thus modularize it and ease the merge problem

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair12:05:40

Ah, I totally get it now — thank you!!! Big Wad of XML.

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Scott Prugh (CTO - CSG) DOES Prog Committee11:05:51

The XML merge problem is more recently replaced by the JSON merge problem!! 😞

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Florian Gysin (Adnovum, DevOps Evangelist, he/him)11:05:28

Yeah, the world turns round and round…

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)11:05:55

all the same problems with fewer characters

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:45

“why you can’t access production directly…”

Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER11:05:42

kid getting ready for school LOVED the merge gif...now thinks merging leads to death (the guy at the bottom of the pile gets crushed)

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Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:53

That’s a good life lesson for them. 🙂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:25

Thank you, @abd3721!!!!

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Giulio Vian, Unum11:05:23

a big problem is integrating tools date: we use a lot of sdfx and we get some benefit out of it, but would love to get test data from Salesforce

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:48

Did you mean “integrating tools data”? Yes, you need a way to populate data in any test environments.

Giulio Vian, Unum11:05:34

tools data I meant test result data, sorry

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:30

There’s an open source tool that you might try. https://github.com/forcedotcom/SFDX-Data-Move-Utility The ability to move test data is also something that an increasing number of the commercial tools offer. Copado for example has a Data Deploy tool

Christian Warnholz11:05:41

You could also build a Flow to generate test data on demand.

Giulio Vian, Unum11:05:21

thanks but I am looking for a way to export test runs from Salesforce in a palatable format like JUnit XML so I can import into a pipeline like Jenkins or Azure DevOps

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:06

I haven’t used it for a while, but there’s this tool designed to pull Apex test run data into a JUnit format https://github.com/forcedotcom/ApexUnit

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Giulio Vian, Unum11:05:48

thanks a lot @abd3721 this is a recurring problem of low-code: you use a set of tools for anything from Cobol to Javascript... and a different set for each low-code platform and you lose visibility and, worse, automation of process (e.g. coordinate approvals for production releases)

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:24

Agreed. Low Code systems are a big step away from traditional tools, so the people who work on those systems don’t usually know what traditional tools/formats they “should” support, and in many cases those traditional tools haven’t even been built.

Ethan Culp11:05:26

This was awesome @abd3721. My team is currently exploring Automation Anywhere on how to create risk assessments from procurement SRQs via screen recording. Very low code and automates a piece of our workflow that takes several hours a week. Initial results look promising and we are estimating we can use that low code automation for 80% of our risk assessments and use 20% for peer review and manual overview.

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code11:05:36

Nice! I’d categorize AutomationAnywhere as a Robotic Process Automation tool, which is also a fast growing trend. Powerful to be able to use such tools to automate existing workflows

Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff11:05:01

Operational Support in a Competitive World Andy Nicklin, British Military 🎉 Now available for sharing: https://videos.itrevolution.com/watch/708122318/ DevOps for Salesforce and Other Low-code Platforms Andrew Davis, Author, Mastering Salesforce DevOps 🎉 Now available for sharing: https://videos.itrevolution.com/watch/708122330/

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair11:05:07

Thank you, everyone!!! See you back here for afternoon sessions — and I’ll see you undoubtedly before that in the track sessions!!! 🎉

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Reminder: The breakout sessions are starting again in 5 minutes. Get in front of your browser and start navigating your way to whichever session you’re attending. https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F01D34MC2KS/image.png

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:48

We are prepping for the afternoon plenary sessions — cyu in 12m! 🙂

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution16:05:00

🔆 We are honored to introduce our next speakers, @brodie.kingstone, General Manager, Operating Model, Corporate Strategy/Customer Experience, ASB Bank, and @jafitzgerald, Partner - Consulting, Deloitte New Zealand. They will be talking about PACE – People Accelerating Customer Experience at ASB 🔆

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:47

Hello, @brodie.kingstone and @jafitzgerald!!!

Jane Fitzgerald16:05:35

Hi @genek and @annp very excited to be here

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:02

ASB is 175 years old, and is New Zealand’s second largest bank…

Brodie Macdonald16:05:15

Morena @genek and @annp 👋

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:04

“we were changing are BAU (business as usual), not our DNA”

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:17

“one of our goals: develop talent in the NZ market; for both ASB and Deloitte” — so neat!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:18

“Five tribes; and homes of practices, such as Market, Risk, ….” <--- what a wonderful poetic way to describe what one might often call “functional areas of expertise (silos)”

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Jane Fitzgerald16:05:29

I never thought about that being poetic @genek, so interesting to see what people pick up from language

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:46

Absolutely, @jafitzgerald — I think so much about how you and @brodie.kingstone talk about work and processes border on poetic. Move over, @jonathansmart1!!!

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Brodie Macdonald16:05:49

We learnt from the best! @jonathansmart1

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:13

“ASB is in the top 10% of employee Net Promoter Score (eNPS) all banks globally” (!!)

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:30

always important, but so, so important in times like this.

Vlad Ukis09:05:11

do you mean remote x-country hiring?

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)10:05:46

a couple reasons. first, the toll the pandemic has taken on people… let’s make things better at work, at least. second, in the u.s., we are experiencing “the great resignation”. do what we can to retain employees better.

Giulio Vian, Unum16:05:08

did I get right "quarterly releases"?

Brodie Macdonald16:05:49

We work on a quarterly increment across the bank, so trying to deliver value each quarter. Releases for digital or tech are out the door when they’re ready - which can be more often!

Giulio Vian, Unum16:05:54

ok thanks audio isn't that clear and the lack of visual does not help non-native speakers

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:12

i like the perspective that “sooner” doesn’t necessarily mean “faster through the pipe” — it includes delivering regular value to customers.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:21

What an incredible program! “COVID: support finder; for all customers, what govt benefits to see available” “In 12 months, we identified $10MM of additional government benefits that our customers could claim, but didn’t know about!”

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:39

• customer obsessed • pace over perfection • learn it all vs. know it all • empowerment over control • trust and transparency So good!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:09

“leaders went from people who had ‘teams below them’ to the ‘great unblockers’“.

Luke Rettig - Target16:05:12

Leaders being the “great unblockers” 🙏

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER16:05:26

sprinkler of glitter? Imma need that badge

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Jane Fitzgerald16:05:13

@brodie.kingstone wears it well 👌:skin-tone-3:

Erik Greathouse16:05:53

It would be interesting to know the types of adopters in the ~1000 employees, early adopters, innovators, majority?

Brodie Macdonald16:05:19

Our first pioneer tribe had a combination of people that were shoulder tapped for specific skills and people that were early adopters who opted in.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:42

“PACE6: those 6 leaders most interested or most affected; we met 3 times per week” (a significant time commitment!)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:59

“…and then PACE6 became PACE9…” (as people outside PACE6 wanted to start influencing/getting involved/not get left out.)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:20

A dark moment from @jafitzgerald: “PACE went from #2 in Priority list to… #26.” 😆 😭 😱 “…and through lots of hard work, we got back to Priority #2.” (Only behind some regulatory issues!)

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:42

more important than doing daily work is the improvement in doing daily work

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:00

The persuasive argument that needed to be made: “PACE was the improvement that all projects would benefit from.”

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:56

I love the theme of “we needed to get moving” — reminds me of so many people saying this. “You can’t steer unless we’re moving.”

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Luke Rettig - Target16:05:41

aligning with Senior Leaders on why PACE was important/critical for the business is an awesome mindset to have instead of it being “foundational or non-negotiable” - have mistakenly driven down the later path before

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:01

…another way to say “we needed to get moving” seems to be: “we need to work in a way that generates some feedback” [so we can steer].

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:24

One of the highest return practices: establishing a synchronized cadence across the bank. (!!!). How wonderful, @jafitzgerald!

Brodie Macdonald16:05:50

We recently conducted a bankwide retro on what was working and where there were opportunities for improvements and consistently aligning the cadence for increment across PACE, and projects and teams was one of the top 4!

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:02

how to align funding for this… yes. lots of organizations wrestling with that challenge.

Philip Day16:05:06

Who has best solved it??

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:45

what i’ve heard works best for many is funding align to value streams/products. i think that’s what @brodie.kingstone and @jafitzgerald referenced for persistent funding, maybe?

Brodie Macdonald16:05:28

Yes, spot on! That’s what we’re working on at the moment… hopefully giving our teams more certainty for their planning horizons.

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Malte Fiala16:05:08

I am very critical to aligning to the same cadence. Does not this defeat the idea of having the right speed for each endeavor?

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:17

I think we can conjure scenarios where cadences are such that it’s impossible to synchronize efforts quickly — two teams working at annual cycle could result in a 2 year lag, due to lack of opportunities to do handoffs

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Brodie Macdonald16:05:39

Our teams may have different sprints, but we’ve found great benefit in coming together at increment planning as we can remove impediments and sequence successfully across many different teams. That helps the change management for our internal people and external customers. I’m a big believer in learn from everyone but copy no one… so it might not work in other organisations or at a different time/maturity in ASB. But right now, it’s helping our flow and value delivery across the portfolio.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:10

Ah, right. If groups don’t plan together, they can’t prioritize together! 🙂

Jane Fitzgerald16:05:21

It doesn't need to mean that the work speed changes within increments - but it greatly helps with visibility and alignment. The goal from our work was to ensure the Bank could pivot and respond earlier and having some alignment allows that to happen at a more organisational (or team of teams level)

Malte Fiala16:05:51

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful answers.

Malte Fiala16:05:44

As you have some way of PIP, do your teams use the same iteration interval? Are the teams able to switch iteration intervals?

Vlad Ukis09:05:12

We tackled similar changes using a "system" to create high alignment and loose coupling among teams. It is written up at https://www.infoq.com/articles/continuous-portfolio-management, if you wish to have a look

Malte Fiala20:05:48

Oh nice, thank you very much for your input!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:05:32

@vladyslav.ukis This is great stuff! Can you email me at <mailto:genek@itrevolution.com|genek@itrevolution.com>? I’d love to learn more!!

Vlad Ukis04:05:40

Sure, just emailed you. Looking forward to a discussion!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:39

Customer goal of enabling their financial well-being spans all tribes across ASB.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:42

@brodie.kingstone What an amazing story: “our parent bank, CBA in Australia is now adopting PACE principles” — influencing the mothership! 🎉 Congratulations on such an endorsement of what you’ve accomplished!

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff16:05:41

People Accelerating Customer Experience (PACE) Brodie Macdonald, General Manager, Operating Model, Corporate Strategy/Customer Experience, ABS Jane Fitzgerald, Partner - Consulting, Deloitte New Zealand 🎉 Now available for sharing: https://videos.itrevolution.com/watch/708278597/

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:42

Thank you so much, @brodie.kingstone and @jafitzgerald!! Congrats on your fantastic achievements!!! 🎉

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution16:05:57

Closing out our afternoon keynotes are @davidanderson393 and @mjj.oreilly, coauthors of the upcoming book, The Flywheel Effect, due out in November '22

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Vlad Ukis09:05:41

What will that be about?

Ann Perry - IT Revolution09:05:43

We are really looking forward to the release.

Leah Brown - IT Revolution16:05:34

Learn more about @davidanderson393, @mjj.oreilly, and Mark McCann's upcoming book The Flywheel Effect (coming Nov. 2022) with forewords from Adrian Cockcroft and Simon Wardley! https://itrevolution.com/the-flywheel-effect/

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:14

Hello, @davidanderson393 and @mjj.oreilly!!! So delighted we can finally hear about all your achievements at Liberty Mutual, and what you’ve been up to since then!

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Dave Anderson16:05:47

Thanks @genek - What a journey!! Big kudos to @mjj.oreilly and @mark.mccann

Michael O'Reilly16:05:01

Hello everyone - great to be here and watching all the awesome talks!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:09

“it’s like when you see a poker hand that will win” (but no one else believes you!) 😆

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:04

…and have the courage to play it given the stakes!

Dave Anderson16:05:39

Yes indeed!! Super high stakes!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:01

“are those even real playing cards?!?” haha

Michael O'Reilly16:05:05

@mark.mccann and I are currently using this building Block diagram at our current company to lay in these foundations!

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Mark McCann16:05:30

we are getting plenty of reuse from this slide 🙂

Dave Anderson16:05:00

Thanks @genek - the amount of work I had to do to even get those case studies published external was another project within itself. We called it “external validation for internal influence”.

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:12

thoughtful principles. i imagine there is a lot behind them in practice.

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Michael O'Reilly16:05:44

Absolutely, it took us quite a while to distill these principles from working with lots of high performing teams working in this way

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:22

“engineers at an insurance company should be insurance.”

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:40

cost per call in a call center: drove costs from $20 -> $0.04 (!!)

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Dave Anderson16:05:45

It took around 10 years to write those 40 words!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:38

Words written per day: 0.0109589

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:10

i totally believe it. you have to accumulate the experiences of what worked and what didn’t, decipher why, and then codify it in the right words.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:44

Umm, have you considered taking touch typing classes? Might be.. helpful?

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Dave Anderson16:05:26

Of course, several of the principles are influenced by other thought-leaders and by attending this very event. Standing on the shoulders of giants…

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Dave Anderson16:05:50

#3 and #4 are basically the 4 DORA metrics.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:16

WebSphere: $50K/year annual cost; refactored to $20/year. (So good!)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:15

“At one point, we had 4 AWS Heroes on my team; most companies don’t have that many in their entire org.”

Giulio Vian, Unum16:05:36

"Serverless First" simple and dense with good principles and practices

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Mark McCann16:05:37

When we talk about optimise the total cost, we are now enhancing that one to add in optimise the total carbon footprint...

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)16:05:07

“organizational nirvana” 🙌

Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER16:05:09

damn. AWS praising your work

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:05:33

TFW when Werner Vogels heaps praise on your work. 🙂 “I was in the front row cheering [one of my colleagues] on as he presented at AWS.”

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Dave Anderson16:05:14

“Serverless First” is very misunderstood. It doesn’t mean lambda, it means writing the least amount of code that you need to and using good architecture and engineering practices to offload operational burden to the cloud provider. BUT, many people hear lambda and functions. 🙂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:14

“What happens after project, when consultants have been paid; when bonuses pool emptied?”

Michael O'Reilly17:05:28

I have a drawer full of cloud socks! 🙂

Dave Anderson17:05:43

OK, all the engineers have cloud socks - are things any better….. But CLOUD SOCKS!

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Michael O'Reilly17:05:20

I love the conversation on differentiation of Modern Cloud and Legacy Cloud!

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER17:05:25

t-shirts here. I was giddy when DOES sponsors started offering shirts in sizes for petite gals.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:13

“not lead time; time to value” @mik would agree.

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Malte Fiala17:05:25

@davidanderson393 How did you balance decentralized / centralized (enterprise) architecture?

Malte Fiala17:05:25

@davidanderson393 How did you balance decentralized / centralized (enterprise) architecture?

Dave Anderson17:05:38

Great question - we enjoyed the term “enabling architect”. I ran the Enterprise Architecture team for a while in Liberty Mutual and each business had their own decentralised team. There was an ebb and flow between the central governance and evolving capability. In a nutshell, the central team govern the old and the teams evolve the new. One of my roles was to ensure they linked up and give the teams air cover to innovate and improve.

Mark McCann17:05:34

we favour enablement and empowerment over command and control. So we can bake a lot of the enterprise Architecture concerns in guardrails (Enabling constraints) into code/policies and into the templates and patterns we offer our teams. We then leverage the Well Architected framework and review process as well our SCORP process to decentralise architecture and design into the teams...

Malte Fiala17:05:51

Thank you both very much for your answers and reading material, much appreciated! @davidanderson393 Is this an ongoing "new becomes old" handover from teams to central team?

Malte Fiala17:05:08

And: do you do the same for commidities as well as core business functions? So: is the central team mainly governing the commodities?

Dave Anderson17:05:47

I think the goverance picture changes per organization (RE: what commodities are governed). But (In My exp), central teams creating the new for other teams rarely works well. It’s better when the teams pioneer and the central team hardens.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:39

“wardley maps help us decide what do we invest in, and what do specifically not invest in?”

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:55

“if something is a commodity, why are we not using them?”

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:46

Here’s the diagram in higher-res:

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)17:05:27

i love the “outcomes” level of the map and where those are located. powerful perspective.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:48

“there are no custom ‘good architecture practices’” 🙂 “all cloud providers have some, 8-9 years old”

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)17:05:28

“adopt a standard. don’t write your own. you’re not that different.” 🙌 :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Dave Anderson17:05:46

Yes - you are not special… Standards work.

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Dave Anderson17:05:38

Thanks @rshoup - it wasn’t this neat when drawn on the whiteboard!!

Randy Shoup (Chief Architect eBay; he/him)17:05:36

OK, now connecting it to your flywheel is next level!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:04

there is a strange almost unintuitive: by adopting standards, you unleash creativity.

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Dave Anderson17:05:14

The enabling constraint!

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Michael O'Reilly17:05:15

The maps will facilitate a broad conversation on complex topics (across disciplines) and eventually lead to well informed discussions on strategy.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:34

“next best action” ; bias for action

Dave Anderson17:05:23

Or, to quote @mark.mccann (and Frozen 2) - “The Next Right Thing”.

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Dave Anderson17:05:51

Maybe @jason.cox can help us with the Disney copyright?

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am17:05:34

I think these talks are recorded videos. Can you confirm?

am17:05:38

So, they were not live, were they?

Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff17:05:13

The Flywheel Effect Creates Space for Innovation David Anderson, Bazaarvoice, Technical Fellow Michael O’Reilly, Software Architect, Globalization Partners 🎉 Now available for sharing: https://videos.itrevolution.com/watch/708278624/ 📘 https://itrevolution.com/the-flywheel-effect/

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:19

Thank you, @davidanderson393 and @mjj.oreilly — so delighted we could finally learn about your incredible work at Liberty Mutual!!!

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Dave Anderson17:05:45

Thanks @rshoup!!

Dave Anderson17:05:00

Thanks @genek - thanks again for all the support and giving us a chance to tell our story. Happy to give back to a community we have learned so much from!

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Michael O'Reilly17:05:22

I second that @davidanderson393 Thank you @genek everyone, for listening to our talk and for all the support!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:05:01

Awesome talk, thank you!!!!!

Luke Rettig - Target17:05:09

great way to close a great day!

Dave Anderson17:05:57

Cheers @lucas.rettig!!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:14

Thank to all the amazing speakers for Day 1!!! 🎉

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:05:35

(holy cow, thanks to the team for making available all talks/slides for Day 1. Amazing. 🙂

Slackbot17:05:17

Reminder: Please submit your feedback for the talks you attended. It’s so valuable for us and the speakers. And after all, feedback is a gift and sharing is caring! Enter your feedback for those talks here: https://members.itrevolution.com/live/schedule https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F03E48CJRF1/image.png

Gillian Nieboer17:05:34

Looking forward to the happy hour! :male_mage::skin-tone-2:🍻

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Malte Fiala20:05:13

@davidanderson393 @mark.mccann In your Serverless First Org Strategy you mention that teams should optimize the total cost. Did teams have cost accountability and cost control on what they were doing?

Dave Anderson20:05:10

Yes @z-itrevolution, we also drove a FinOps strategy - we had an org wide FinOps Dash board that showed the complete cost (cloud or on-prem) of an App. Endorsed by Finance and owned by Infrastructure. We managed cost centrally (by the budget owner) and we treated cost as an architectural concern (informed by Well-Architected framework). Another example of central gov and decentralised improvements. We encouraged and celebrated teams when they refactored to reduce the bill (Cost Optimization). Even joked when teams saved 0.10c a day (offered to buy back a coffee after 2 weeks with the profit - tongue in cheeek for a $40Bn company).

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Dave Anderson20:05:37

So actually managing a budget for a team - we found that excessive, but treated cost as a quality control.

Malte Fiala21:05:57

Very nice, great food for thought, thank you very much!