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#discussion-nolita-32022-12-06
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Natasha Gupta16:12:12

hello all! this is natasha gupta, speaker for the synopsys session on 'find fast, fix fast.' here to answer any questions you may have during the presentation in the slack channel!

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Slackbot16:12:02

Reminder: The breakout sessions are starting in 5 minutes. Get in front of your browser and start navigating your way to whichever session youโ€™re attending. https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F04DG604H1C/image.png

Molly Coyne (Sponsorship Director / ITREV)17:12:55

Welcome @natashag from Synopsys' team for our first sponsor session's Q&A. Thank you #C01TK0N13J5!

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Tim Solokha17:12:53

Thanks for the great info @natashag!

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Natasha Gupta17:12:59

most welcome! please check out our blog at https://www.synopsys.com/blogs/software-security/ for more information and resources as well!

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Necco17:12:54

Hi all, coming up next is LinearB co-founder Dan Lines, presenting "Completing the promise of CI/CD with CM" Dan will be diving in Continuous Merge - what it is, why it matters and user evidence of it's effects. Continuous Merge blog: https://linearb.io/blog/continuous-merge/ Continuous Merge tool (gitStream): https://linearb.io/dev/gitstream/

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Molly Coyne (Sponsorship Director / ITREV)17:12:20

A warm welcome to Dan Lines from LinearB for our next session's Q&A. We appreciate #C03DGPV75M2!

Molly Coyne (Sponsorship Director / ITREV)17:12:28

And to @necco from LinearB who is joining us today!

Necco17:12:24

Hello everyone, I work with Dan and have been helping to drive the Continuous Merge movement. If you have any questions about Engineering Metrics or Continuous Merge, let's get a discussion going : ) Who here is tracking Cycle Time โœ‹

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Necco17:12:36

Merge Frequency = #1 Dev Experience metric

Necco17:12:21

If you're using Cycle Time, I can definitely recommend checking out the Engineering Metrics Benchmarks: https://linearb.io/engineering-benchmarks/ We analyzed 1mil+ PRs to get these numbers.

Arun Chawla17:12:34

We do not, but I think this is really critical to do

Arun Chawla17:12:56

Do the LinearB tools wok with GitHub?

Necco17:12:13

We do! GitHub, GitLab, Bitbucket

Necco17:12:28

Who feels the pain of a slow PR Review process? โœ‹

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Necco17:12:43

Both

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Necco17:12:27

The PR review process is almost always a Cycle Time killer. Why? Because we are treating every PR the same...

Necco17:12:15

You know what people love? Estimated Review Times Knowing how long a review will take helps save time

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Necco17:12:47

This is all about enabling your developers with context.

Jonathan Mailhot17:12:18

This looks like a Slack bot, is it working with other instant messaging app? (e.g. MsTeams)

Dan Alice17:12:33

We do work with MS Teams

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Ryan Taylor, Application Architect, Axim Geospatial17:12:56

Does it work with Teams on the Gov Cloud?

Necco17:12:16

Let me check on that.

Necco17:12:26

@daniel.alice ^^

Necco17:12:04

Dan is talking about Inline Approve - Small PRs can be approved directly in Slack

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Haendel Dorfeuille17:12:02

What about policies to limit the size of the PRs?

Necco17:12:44

gitStream can recommend PR Sizes, and WorkerB (slack bot) can remind team of the goals they set

Bobbi Wenzler17:12:55

For auto-approval, are these organizations not limited by things like model audit rule?

Necco17:12:21

Not everyone is, or follows it for the matter. To be fair, in this case, gitStream is the reviewer.

Bobbi Wenzler17:12:19

Yeah makes sense! Like auto merges by renovate that the pipeline checks the success and then merges. Thanks this is really cool!

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Erwin Will - CarMax17:12:23

I have run into this issue as well but some of it might be the audit/compliance people Iโ€™m working with donโ€™t fully understand what is happening

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Necco17:12:19

Here is a sneak peak into the newest use cases for gitStream

Necco17:12:39

One of the coolest things about gitStream is that you can create your own repo rules using a .cm file vs. a readme file

Roman Paul17:12:25

So we're able to set any parameters that we want for auto approval?

Necco17:12:36

Continuous Merge blog: https://linearb.io/blog/continuous-merge/ Continuous Merge tool (gitStream): https://linearb.io/dev/gitstream/

Haendel Dorfeuille17:12:38

Anyone experimenting PR review with ChatGPT ?

Necco17:12:55

Not that I have seen yet!

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Necco17:12:09

If you are looking to start an Engineering Metrics Program, check out http://Linearb.io and itself gitStream is completely free!

Jonathan Mailhot17:12:51

Thanks a lot, super interesting! ๐Ÿ‘

Necco17:12:54

Thank you everyone!

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Necco17:12:11

Check out our booth or hit up @daniel.alice for a chat

Arun Chawla17:12:11

Thank you lovely talk !!

Patrick Yip18:12:42

Great talk!

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Reminder: The breakout sessions are starting again in 5 minutes. Get in front of your browser and start navigating your way to whichever session youโ€™re attending. https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F04DG604H1C/image.png

Molly Coyne (Sponsorship Director / ITREV)18:12:50

Welcome @pmccarron from LaunchDarkly for our next session's Q&A! Thank you to our incredible Premier Sponsor #C01653T4GJC! upvotepartyparrot

Peter McCarron18:12:59

Hi all! Thanks in advance if you choose to watch my talk on Full Stack Feature Flags. I'll be hanging out here so feel free to drop any questions in here or in #C01653T4GJC.

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Dave Zorko19:12:32

Thanks @pmccarron love me some LaunchDarkly

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Peter McCarron19:12:51

Thanks for watching Dave!

Molly Coyne (Sponsorship Director / ITREV)19:12:12

Welcome @dominica for our next session's Q&A. Thank you #xpo-planview-tasktop!

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Principal Flow Advisor19:12:06

It's not an easy win if you're not set up & organized for change

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Paninya Masrangsan (Flow Advisor - Planview, she/her)19:12:55

The similarities between the 5 stages of grief and business transformation!! ๐Ÿคฏ

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:18

reminds me of making sourdough starter !

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Marc Poulin19:12:35

Psychological Safety coming back again - I'm seeing a trend across a lot of the talks ๐Ÿ˜„

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Matt Ring (he/him) - Sr. Product/Engineering Coach, John Deere19:12:39

People (Culture) > Process > Tools. Psych Safety plays a bit part of that, for sure.

Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Principal Flow Advisor19:12:55

@marc.poulin For sure - if psychological Safety isn't table stakes, then problem.

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:37

When I was at Chrysler, during COVID I did an experiment. I stopped showing up to meetings. Nothing happened

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Amy Crocker (DBA Supervisor - O'Reilly Auto Parts)19:12:54

Too many meetings = too much whip ๐Ÿคฏ

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Marc Poulin19:12:27

Have you noticed an increase in the amount of complaints about too many meetings since WFH? Anecdotally, I feel like I saw this a lot at my previous company which had very Agile methodology.

Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Principal Flow Advisor19:12:43

Agree! If you at the office, you can take a walk out for coffee or lunch - or just walk down the hall to meet - you're not expected to be in front of you screen all day.

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Marc Poulin19:12:41

I feel like asymchronous communication has a lot of the answer to this, but getting adhesion is challenging.

Leaf (Jessica Roy), MassMutual19:12:19

We had a survey where people talked about what wasn't working, and "too many meetings" was a top answer. However, many people also mentioned "meetings" in their answer to what WAS working. Lots of useless meetings, but when you get a meeting right, it's powerful

Matt Ring (he/him) - Sr. Product/Engineering Coach, John Deere19:12:04

Good goal! Work to live, not live to work. #OptimizeForLife

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:24

Confidence is the missing link

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Principal Flow Advisor19:12:25

Lowering WIP thru smaller batch size an automation is so powerful.

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:28

Tony went to his daughter's soccer game for the first time!

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Matt Ring (he/him) - Sr. Product/Engineering Coach, John Deere19:12:55

I see what you did there @dominica. ๐Ÿ˜‰ "A best.... no, a good practice..."

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:09

Tony started with a personal hypothesis. The data reinforced his instinct

Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:25

It all starts with instincts

Marc Poulin19:12:56

Oooof... that cognitive overload hits home. The WIP coming from teams is real.

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Shane Brauner19:12:21

meetings are WIP. ๐Ÿคฏ

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Principal Flow Advisor19:12:27

Pull system - The departure rate is your capacity.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:12:50

"Revenue protection" โ€”ย I've always loved that phrase. Hi @dominica !!

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:30

the customer view is the harshest critic

Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:16

customers don't care about our sprints ๐Ÿ™‚

Shane Brauner19:12:46

What do you call this metric that tracks the time from ideation to delivery?

Shane Brauner19:12:03

I thought you started flow time from when work actually started?

Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:16

starts from point of commitment

Marc Poulin19:12:19

I'd say ideation is part of the work, though.

Marc Poulin19:12:01

I have a question about this slide. Our products go through a publishing process, so the waiting for release state is something that we do not have direct control on. Would you recommend that that be excluded from the calculation in that case?

Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:39

yes, ideation is included in flow time

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:12:39

"Concept to cash" is one way I've heard it described.

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:05

we call that slide "my precious"

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Matt Ring (he/him) - Sr. Product/Engineering Coach, John Deere19:12:31

@dominica something I still struggle with related to these flow metrics is how to coach people against the sunk cost fallacy. If the Product Manager or team determines that an idea should not be done (either it's still in the backlog or is in progress and they realize it's the wrong thing to build). Any suggestions on how to help people overcome this?

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Shane Brauner19:12:34

so then flow load includes the entire backlog?

Marc Poulin19:12:14

That's interesting, I was thinking of it as the roadmap more than the backlog.

Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Principal Flow Advisor19:12:17

@shane.brauner Flow Load does not include the backlog in this example. It normally doesn't.

Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Principal Flow Advisor19:12:55

But it could if the backlog is a waiting spot from upstream workflow.

Shane Brauner19:12:24

So flow load doesnโ€™t include backlog but flow time does?

Shane Brauner19:12:34

(if flow time starts at ideation)?

Chris Austin19:12:47

I personally see the internal backlog as Options that we could bet on, so the lead time for me doesn't start until we've agreed that we'll make that bet. For things coming from customer requests it's a bit different since you could start the clock from when they ask about it, or from when you've confirmed for them that you'll do it. Could work around that with a Backlog pool and an Options pool... but that feels a bit like hiding the times. What do you recommend?

Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Principal Flow Advisor20:12:26

@shane.brauner Wherever you set the clock to start is when Flow Load and Flow Time begin. Flow Time ends where ever you set the clock to stop - usually when it hits a done state.

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Shane Brauner20:12:36

ok, thanks. That jives with my prior understanding. Iโ€™m thinking we just track different stats for different types/levels of work. Differentiating a new initiative that would have to go through approvals / funding exercises vs. fulfilling a customer request vs. engineering initiated debt work would all have different start times.

Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:27

so @mring work that halts?

Matt Ring (he/him) - Sr. Product/Engineering Coach, John Deere19:12:10

It could halt. Or it's actively in progress and the PM/team realizes the feature won't actually help solve the user's problem / job to be done.

Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:04

we promote cancelling such work, in which case it falls out of the metrics

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:12:37

"Cancel work? Over my dead body!!" "That can be arranged."

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:14

one large telecommunications company found that 70% of stale work was cut by people no longer at the company

Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:31

they still wouldnt cancel it, and it was over a year old

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:12:58

(Laughing, but not because it's actually funny, if you get my drift...)

Matt Ring (he/him) - Sr. Product/Engineering Coach, John Deere19:12:04

Side note - I like how @dominica has all open-ended / powerful questions on this slide. No leading questions.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:12:32

Like being held hostage by dead people. Or something like that. What a story!!!

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:05

pirates of the Caribbean comes to mind

Matt Ring (he/him) - Sr. Product/Engineering Coach, John Deere19:12:28

"You best start believing in ghost stories. You're in one!"

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)19:12:21

Peter Senge has some great stuff about shared visions and current reality

Arun Chawla19:12:36

Coalition of the willing -- So True!!

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Principal Flow Advisor19:12:30

Experiments require Daily Practice ---> Ideal #3 from The Unicorn Project

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Amy Crocker (DBA Supervisor - O'Reilly Auto Parts)19:12:05

I've enjoyed this talk immensely @dominica Thank you!

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Craig Statham19:12:22

Thank you @dominica for such a great presentation. Love the idea of using math to model what we do. Helps to explain causation over correlation. :-)

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Lucy Softich, IT Revolution (she/her)19:12:26

The e-book Making Work Visible is available for free (while supplies last), sponsored by LaunchDarkly. Grab your copy from their booth in Gather or in Solutions Hub: https://members.itrevolution.com/live/expo

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Chris Ellis (Lockheed Martin)20:12:00

Love the making work visible book, I'm only half way through it and it has already changed how I view time management

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:12:00

Woo, go David Anderson!! Value Flywheel Effect!

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Chris Gallivan (Planview)20:12:26

Great job @dominica!!!

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Dave Zorko20:12:27

Thank you @dominica !

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David Gibson20:12:34

๐Ÿ‘‹ Hi everyone! My name is David and I am a Senior Data Scientist at Stack Overflow. I look forward to sharing how we think about measuring knowledge reuse. Please let me know if you have any questions.

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Molly Coyne (Sponsorship Director / ITREV)20:12:47

Welcome @dgibson for our next session's Q&A Thank you #C03E0JH0LP9!

Mark Persiko20:12:50

This track had multiple healthy reminders of casualties of WIP and ways to take some challenges back to leadership!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:12:49

I love Stack Overflow!!! And @tal , of course!!! Hi, @dgibson

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Chris Austin20:12:10

Sooner, Safer, Happier is also a very worthy read for this. I've read 28 books so far this year, and it's my favorite (along with several other IT Rev books)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:12:50

I use Stack Overflow to solve big technology challenges โ€”ย and to learn how to write correct YAML files. ๐Ÿ˜‚

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:12:58

Worst way to do knowledge management โ€”ย searching Slack. ๐Ÿ˜‚

Staci Blue - Stack Overflow for Teams20:12:28

I've worked for organizations where this is the primary way to share :woman-facepalming: There are clearly better options!!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:12:03

I feel seen. ๐Ÿ˜‚ Luckily search on Slack is pretty good, but I've spent so much time scrolling on Slack trying to find things.

Leaf (Jessica Roy), MassMutual20:12:56

It only works if the message is out in the open. I've been on a campaign to discourage private questions and encourage public asking. Search is one reason.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:12:58

Great idea! ^^^^ In fact, one of the founders of Slack competitor (that was acquired by Rally โ€”ย Flowdock) described how that was his mantra: get knowledge out of email threads, and get as much interactions out in to the open.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:12:26

The perpetual balance between optimizing for the individual versus optimizing for the team.

Mark Persiko20:12:37

PUN WARNING: Do developers' dogs use http://stickoverflow.com?

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Marc Poulin20:12:15

We had more or less addressed the "answering questions workload" by having support rotation so people could at least plan the answering questions time in their workday ahead of time.

Chris Ellis (Lockheed Martin)20:12:01

I like the analogy of "automating the work of answering repeated questions"

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:12:18

(The full case study is in DevOps Handbook โ€”ย I loved that idea so much.)

Staci Blue - Stack Overflow for Teams20:12:30

You can snag a DevOps handbook Companion over at the https://members.itrevolution.com/live/expo! ๐Ÿ˜‰

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:12:47

Awesome โ€”ย 62% of answers are viewed again by the same person. "I don't do git rebase often, so I need to learn how to do it again"

David Gibson20:12:08

That and how almost half of dev find themselves answering questions that theyโ€™ve answered before are my favorite data points to share!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair22:12:15

Thanks for the great presentation!!!

Dave Zorko20:12:40

@dgibson that was awesome and you articulated how many developers feel about Q&A and knowledge transfer, thank you!

David Gibson20:12:08

Thank you! Developers are already very comfortable with QA formats but no one wants to answer the same question over and over again

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Vlad Ukis20:12:44

Thanks so much, @dgibson! Enjoyed the talk and will re-watch it.

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Leaf (Jessica Roy), MassMutual20:12:37

The long-form vs. questions piece is a huge takeaway for me. Thanks @dgibson!

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Vlad Ukis20:12:58

What was the essence?

David Gibson20:12:06

Long-form is a large time investment to create and also consume. QA is easier to create, consume and keep up-to-date

Leaf (Jessica Roy), MassMutual20:12:58

I grabbed a screen shot

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Leaf (Jessica Roy), MassMutual20:12:09

I think there's also a psychological barrier: people sometimes see long form doc as something formal that they have to get approval to submit, or that they have to do Right. And I suspect lots of people tell themselves "oh. I'm not good at writing documentation," but I suspect there are fewer people by far who tell themselves "I'm not good at answering questions."

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