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#discussion-azure-ballroom
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2024-08-21
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Adam Brunner - John Deere00:08:25

How many others are building a bench to augment key problems? Anyone thinking about this in the AI acceleration space? :thinking_face:

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain00:08:46

First rule of Disney spending. Why buy one when you can have two for twice the price.

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Collin Hachwi00:08:09

Feel like there is at least another 2 hour presentation from @jason.cox @alexi.s.varanko

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Alexi Varanko02:08:38

@jason.cox and I are pretty passionate about the subject.

Ben Spain (Thrivent)15:08:09

@jason.cox can you share any more details around the "JEDI" program. Idlf memory serves, this is the program at Disney that helps train people to be effective Enablement engineers correct? I'm in an organization that is standing up an Enablement engineering group, and any insights/materials/subject matter would be helpful.

Ann Perry - IT Revolution00:08:14

:heavy_equals_sign: Please welcome Steve Smith, Global VP of Technology at Scale, Equal Experts here to present 3 Ways You’re Screwing Up Platform Engineering - And How to Fix It

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:00

@mvk842 Was that the British national anthem?! hahaha.

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Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)06:08:40

Yes, @mvk842 kindly facilitated a joke at my request. It was perfect and a great example of the lengths IT Rev goes to help their speakers have a great experience ♥️

Cat Swetel - Nubank00:08:45

"don't clap your culture" I am ded. 💀 😆

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Charlie Betz00:08:53

Jason's case is a specific example of Don Reinertsen's insights in this blog - the problem is not with shared services per se, the problem is when they are measured on unit cost. "Curiously, whenever a shared resource has high capacity, consistently low latency, and fast response times, nobody wants the headache of managing a smaller, local resource to replace a satisfactorily performing shared resource" more: https://www.forrester.com/blogs/expertise-and-the-shared-services-problem-a-conversation-with-don-reinertsen/

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:19

Examples of Power Tools: Kubernetes, Kafka, Istio... In other words, things that you don't want to run on your laptop. Hahaha.

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Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)06:08:44

Also, tools that people are drawn towards using for their power, their utility, their capability, when a screwdriver will probably just do today's job

David Faircloth - Wendy’s00:08:24

With platform Engineering, TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) is paramount. Why building in exit ramps is just as essential as onboarding any new technology.

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Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)06:08:33

I've not heard it described that way before. Martin Fowler said years ago something like: remember today's modern service is tomorrow's legacy, or something like that. Reversability is how I look at it, from a Kent Beck quote a couple of years ago

Paul Gaffney00:08:03

Let’s build the cluster of our dreams! (Most platform teams don’t say that out loud)

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eric, Liatrio00:08:40

RDD - Resume Driven Development 🙂

Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)06:08:57

It's important to assume good intentions, I think a lot of people just get sucked into perfectionism and robustness, over good enough and resilience. There's some resume burnishing going on, I guess

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)00:08:36

“When do power tools happen? When you work inside out on what you want instead of outside in on what development teams need.”

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Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)06:08:42

Spent some time on that 😄, I wanted some memorable but not too critical. Glad you liked it Jeff

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:58

"Look, friendly icons. They'll be easier to use!" Hahaha.

Doguhan00:08:09

What a relief to see cost effective tools elevated above the “default” choices. I’m usually labeled an uncooperative renegade when I point out the simpler solution 😬

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RussWeb00:08:10

But...not just about the tools and preferences. Remember, these platforms and processes may contain all the "compliance as code" value. Now what? Distribute that 3x? = diff costs.

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David Faircloth - Wendy’s00:08:23

"Kubernetes is hard to get right, which means it's easy to get wrong" this is true of many power tools. It might be the right tool, but should not be signed up for without understanding the consequences and TCO behind it.

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Charlie Betz00:08:58

uncontrolled variation in base tech is a huge issue. Hearing more and more pain around it.

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Clare Hawthorne00:08:59

A colleague said it best: “if we’re going to customize, we need to have a long term maintenance plan”

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Benjie_from_Shipyard00:08:27

When you give your teams optionality they take it, and find creative ways to create new foot guns...

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:31

"Each week, just ask what % of time is spent on unplanned tech work on Google Cloud Platform configuration, etc."

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:49

"the answer made the engineer almost throw up"

David Faircloth - Wendy’s00:08:58

ShadowIT is what crops up when the barrier to entry and usability is too high or you're not meeting needs. Those are opportunities to identify feedback from your customers on what their needs are. Embrace ShadowIT instead of knocking it down. learn from it.

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Charlie Lambers00:08:40

What a refreshing approach: Stay curious and embrace ShadowIT.

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RussWeb00:08:09

and when your environment is so controlled and locked down, that even shadow IT won't work...anger and no throughput.

David Faircloth - Wendy’s00:08:36

that's a cultural problem. ShadowIT shifts to credit cards and personal devices....... Engineers will find a way. :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Adam Brunner - John Deere00:08:17

Bake your tech stack into your platform

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Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)06:08:25

Yes that's a part of it... bake in your technical alignment, and your tech stack will be a big part of that. But there's other aspects of contextual alignment you want to bake in e.g. SLO settings

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David Faircloth - Wendy’s00:08:36

Polyglot platforms is a matruity aspect. you can offer multiple language support, but cannot be a first mover.

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Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)06:08:40

Hmmm... interesting. Not sure I agree, it'd be good to talk about this, and hear more about your perspective (I'd say multiple tech stacks in your heritage services is inevitable in heritage, I wouldn't advocate it for modern workloads)

David Faircloth - Wendy’s13:08:27

Let’s chat. We offer multiple languages today while offering the same rails experience. It’s allowed for more adoption by developers and increasing throughput and ttm

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Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)14:08:20

Would you and @hany.elemary like to duck out of a morning session, and we catch up outside Azure? Are there any particular GenAI sessions that are must-see for you? :thinking_face:

Hany Elemary21:08:45

Oops. Apologies I'm just now seeing this, folks. I have better availability tomorrow, if that works.

Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)22:08:49

We can talk tonight if you're coming to the thing?

Adam Brunner - John Deere00:08:45

The value change per screw up remedy graphs are 🔥

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Charlie Betz00:08:32

human in the loop considered harmful

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Rachel Uhrig00:08:30

Steve undersold himself. He was a huge help at SiriusXM getting our platform and Reliability teams up and running!

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RussWeb00:08:35

Tickets for automatable work is a public announcement that you're failing at operational agility.

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Paul Gaffney00:08:05

Are tickets in any form a universal tech-disease predictor? I’ve never seen a ticketing system associated with a healthy environment.

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Charlie Betz00:08:32

they have their place for some routine work

RussWeb00:08:37

ok, if they trigger an automated flow....and are really serving a history logging purpose.

Tim Haagenson (American Airlines)00:08:18

Put the things you don't want people to do behind a ticketing system

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Charlie Betz00:08:39

there are cases in the end user space I'm not sure how you'd solve otherwise.

Scott Prugh (ETLS PC / CTO Uturn Data)00:08:41

I actually think of it the other way. Tickets for routine work should just be self service or automated: Run a job, provision your own service/VM, etc... Tickets for creative work(features, stories, etc.) are vital.

Scott Prugh (ETLS PC / CTO Uturn Data)00:08:36

And the routine work ticketing problem is a continuum. You may need to enter tickets for everything to begin to just collect and understand the work. Then, remove those tickets with self-service automation

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Paul Gaffney00:08:56

My point of view is that routine work should be automated or self serve. Features, etc., should not be initiated by ticket. If a feature needs to have some surveillance over its life cycle, the development process should be instrumented to provide that surveillance and the instrument should not look anything like a typical Jira ticket.

Tim Haagenson (American Airlines)00:08:22

That may be a difference in terminology Scott. I don't consider your examples tickets in our workflows.

Scott Prugh (ETLS PC / CTO Uturn Data)00:08:01

Ok. I guess the general term would be: WorkItem? And there are different classes of those: Service Request, Incident, Feature. The default is often to create a Service Request for everything and have folks process those on a queue. That is bad and should be automated. Creative work in a SDLC is managed with a WorkItem type of Feature..

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Charlie Betz00:08:32

Agree that tickets also are a key signal for poorly understood need. Routine work should be automated, but in some cases you can't get there yet. My frame also includes EUC and customer support. I think we also need to clarify some language. Is a fully automated ticket still a ticket?

Charlie Betz00:08:59

is there a meaningful difference between ticket and workflow?

Scott Prugh (ETLS PC / CTO Uturn Data)00:08:48

I have seen fully automated tickets to support traceability. Pipeline opens change record, pipeline deploys, pipeline closes ticket.

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Scott Prugh (ETLS PC / CTO Uturn Data)00:08:40

I've also seen 17 tickets for a provisioning flow that were not automated. Ironically those 17 tickets(in Jira) were created from one Jira ticket and then assigned each of those 17 tickets to different teams.. Yes. That is a disease.

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Jeff Romine00:08:20

Why does anyone think you should build everything around the complaints department?

Charlie Betz00:08:05

The decision to automate vs tolerate ticketing can be hard - how to prioritize? This is why platform managers must be product managers.

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David Faircloth - Wendy’s00:08:38

TPP - unplanned work is often a bottleneck and constraint. need to identify that workstream and protect the teams from it and unlocking more deep work.Interested in how others approach this today.

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David Faircloth - Wendy’s00:08:35

we utilize a patrol system to protect the team except for "the tribute" for that day/week. this allows 1-2 persons to be t-boned with unplanned work and protect the others on the team. rotation through this is important as it also fosters context sharing better

David Faircloth - Wendy’s00:08:55

"trial by fire" for newcomers. diving in to problems is the fastest way to learn things.

Paul Gaffney00:08:25

Platform “products” work well only when platform teams do the same high-quality discovery that other successful product teams do.

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Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)06:08:11

Totally agree. I don't think platform product manager or platform user researcher are anything different from a product manager or user researcher in a platform domain

Nick Eggleston (free radical)00:08:31

Definitely invite @steve.smith back for more cultural criticism...

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Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)06:08:37

Thank you, I appreciate the feedback

Ann Perry - IT Revolution00:08:33

Next up is Chuck Lafferty, Vice President - CRM, and Dr. Mary Hayes, Director of Research - People and Performance here to present The Levers Of Leadership at ADP

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:03

"we do everything from hiring to retiring" Nice. (Also rhymes: firing)

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster00:08:38

What’s the definition of hybrid here?

Mary Hayes17:08:50

The definition of hybrid is simple. It is an employee who works sometimes in the office/ on-site and sometimes remote. We did not put any quantity of days in one place or another. So again we let the respondents choose between three options Office/ on-site, Remote only, and hybrid. Hope that helps.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster00:08:13

I’d imagine one person in the office and the rest nowhere near the office would have less engagement

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster00:08:31

Loss of async knowledge transfer etc

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:55

"2.8x more likely to be 'all in'" "10x more likely to say 'I'm part of the best team'"

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:33

"At least 2x more likely to say they're on the best team when they have complete trust int heir leader"

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)00:08:05

“The only person who can influence the engagement of the team is the team leader.”

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RussWeb00:08:02

I'm gonna be a contrarian on this one. I've definitely been able to impact and inspire engagement and morale from within a team....even impacting the leader.

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)01:08:48

Valid perspective. I’ve seen this in action, too.

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Mary Hayes17:08:09

The items I shared yesterday were designed to be a leadership effectiveness tool to help leaders learn from their team if they are providing what each team member needs. But as we know in measurement these eight might not be the only parts of the story. One of the questions talks about teams having each others back. This is a important part of the leaders need to foster team work. I have had some ineffective leaders and some times the team goes it alone and a natural leader comes from within.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:16

"The only person that can influence engagement is the team leader" — "so we decided to make the leaders responsible for engagement"

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:07

"Student gets 5 As, and 1 D. Which subject do you discuss first? Org psychologist says 'probably the As first'"

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)00:08:37

I think this is called appreciative inquiry.

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Clare Hawthorne00:08:31

An old boss used to do this for team performance reviews. Focus on building on your strengths!

Christine Hudson00:08:01

Use the bright spots to figure out what works for this human, use what already works to figure out remedies…

Mary Hayes17:08:16

Looking at the positive also helps build self efficacy in an individual. Often times we always tear our people down by only focusing on the negative. Keep looking at the positive in those that follow you. It will go a long way to building trust.

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Tom Murphy (CTO, Title21)00:08:51

Focus on what is working to translate a recovery from what is not working

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:42

"Share loves vs. loathes".

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair00:08:02

"orgs are just a network of commitments" — so sharing loves vs. loathes enables a value exchange. Neat.

Anbu Ilango - Discogs00:08:24

Do stuff for other people - Builds Trust 🤝

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RussWeb00:08:00

Employee - "Do you even see me?"

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Tom Murphy (CTO, Title21)00:08:11

Enjoying this presentation!

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Adam Brunner - John Deere00:08:51

"it is not enough to measure, you must take some action" :thinking_face:

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)00:08:38

I see a TON of measurement efforts that never lead to action. It’s worse than not measuring at all. It callouses people to the whole deal.

Mary Hayes17:08:58

Absolutely. Measuring and not closing the loop leads to survey fatigue and loss of trust.

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David Faircloth - Wendy’s00:08:31

Team Topologies!!!!! such a fantastic read and so many things to learn and implement.

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution00:08:41

ttopAnd now, Manuel Pais, Co-author of Team Topologies, and Dr. Laura Weis Head of Future of Work, Satalia/VML, here to present The Science Behind Team Cognitive Load and Why It Matters for Engaged Teams

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)01:08:01

Very interesting topics, is there an online resource that lists the key experiments and studies in these areas?

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)13:08:09

Thank you, that’s good background information and has a reading list for more investigation, which is the next step in looking for the key experiments. The article sometimes uses Team Cognitive Load in places where context makes clear overload is what is meant. Good stuff!

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Christine Hudson01:08:34

Whew. A talk on cognitive load and attention at the end of a long AMAZING day of sharing info. I am definitely going to rewatch this talk when I have more attention credits.

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Elizabeth Ayer01:08:22

Very interesting talk, but yes, there is a bit of irony to this content being in the 10th hour of a conference! (if I'm mathing right, which I might not be at this point? 🤪)

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Ryan Elmore - Equal Experts01:08:36

Super curious how AI (read ML) is used to better understand the complex graph theory behind cognitive load. Feels like the data collection part of this is a big challenge!

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)01:08:18

ETLS/DOES is a wonderful experience of overstimulation and positive cognitive load for many days... 🙂

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Robin Yeman01:08:31

This is fascinating, I see cognitive load impact every day from teams, but the explanation on how this happens is Amazing, I feel like we have hope to help!!

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Christine Hudson01:08:37

To be clear, this talk is AMAZING. I want it to stick!

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)01:08:24

You're the last speaker... take your time! 🙂

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)01:08:40

Slowification...

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RussWeb01:08:21

Seen this load play out most when Sr. leaders struggle to prioritize and say no, and have no tools but "produce more!" Adding more, when the last thing is not done . #KanBanWIP

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)01:08:46

And how does this align with the findings of Cognitive Psychology in terms of the Beliefs held by the individuals experiencing negative emotion related to cognitive load -- or not

Christine Hudson01:08:46

Today was so incredible. Thanks, speakers. Thanks IT rev team!!!

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)01:08:17

Is Dr Laura Weis on Slack?

Olivier Jacques - AWS - DevEx01:08:04

Awesome food for thoughts in the presentation from Dr Weis and Manuel Pais. Wow. I’ll skip cocktail 🙃

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)01:08:26

Who is here as part of the Team giving the feedback? Say hi

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)01:08:33

Love this end of the day review hosted by @genek... such a good idea for fast feedback and review.

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Doguhan01:08:13

“Choosing effective over being right”

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Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)01:08:57

“Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good” // “do what works”

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Christine Hudson01:08:22

“Choose being effective over being right”

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Robin Yeman01:08:38

Be really curious is critical sentiment

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Jordan Stoner01:08:53

Introduce yourself to someone new tonight at the party

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Adam Brunner - John Deere01:08:00

It has been great to connect with so many on the Southwest team. They came curious!

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Martin Deslongchamps - Triton Digital01:08:13

Thank you to all speakers for such an informative and thoughtful and amazing day 1! 🙏 🙏 🙏

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)01:08:15

Friends - please join us at the industry party right after this!!!!

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Alex (IT Revolution, Conference Staff)01:08:35

ETLS Las Vegas Livestream—Get access to days 2 & 3 for your colleagues here: http://itrevolution.com/membership • $2,500 for a 6 month IT Revolution Enterprise Membership with unlimited users • They can join this amazing Slack community and engage with the talks live—they'll even show up on the StageSYNC feed! • Plus access ETLS Connect virtual events (with in-person watch parties hosted by Equal Experts) starting on October 23

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair01:08:20

<!here> (the rare at-here message): If you have colleagues you couldn’t bring, ^^^ is a great option so they can watch all the talks with you tomorrow morning!!! Please let @alexb know if you have any problems: Thank you, all, and see you later tonight and tomorrow!!!! 🎉🎉🎉

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Jeff Romine01:08:02

If you left a swag bag in the afternoon plenary, you can now find it at the Registration desk.

Steve Smith (VP, Equal Experts)05:08:34

Thanks everyone for the great feedback on my platform engineering talk today. Special thanks to @mvk842 @annp for allowing me to pick my own intro music and sabotage it 🙇 Some folks have contacted me with their own platform engineering screw up stories. Please do get in touch, always happy to listen and share 😄

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)15:08:28

Sharing is caring 😊

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Slackbot15:08:21

Reminder: Get yourself to your seat in the Azure Ballroom for the opening remarks. We’re kicking off Day 2 in 15 minutes at 8:45am PDT! https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F07H7N10D62/timer.png

Alex (IT Revolution, Conference Staff)15:08:07

Morning everyone! Welcome to Day 2 🎉

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Alex (IT Revolution, Conference Staff)15:08:26

We'll be getting started shortly.

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)15:08:57

Great day 1!! Looking forward to see what unexpected things Day 2 brings 😹

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Slackbot15:08:20

Reminder: Day 2 is starting now – opening remarks and then plenary talks!

Alex (IT Revolution, Conference Staff)15:08:09

ETLS Las Vegas Livestream—Get access to days 2 & 3 for your colleagues here: http://itrevolution.com/membership • $2,500 for 6 months of enterprise access with unlimited users • Everyone can join this amazing Slack community and engage with the talks live—they'll even show up on the StageSYNC feed! • Access ETLS Connect on October 23 DM me with any questions!

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution15:08:46

Starting us off this morning, one of the teams from Vanguard, Devlin McConnell, Senior Manager - Emerging Technology, and Matt Butler, Director of Analytics and Automation - Center for Audit Practices and Enablement, here to present: Exploring What GenAI Can Do for Vanguard Crew and Clients

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair15:08:07

Dr. Joe Davis, Chief Economist of Vanguard!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair15:08:45

Seeing Dr. Joe Davis talk was a seriously geek out moment for me — it was amazing hearing him take a minority view that AI can materially change GDP growth. You might see me in the audience in some of these shots. 😂

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RussWeb15:08:03

Definitely BOTH!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair15:08:56

(Usually you'd see Dr. Joe Davis talk at conferences where the other speakers are Fed chairs, people who set economic policies, former US presidents, etc. It was an amazing talk, and I think should inform how tech leaders make strategic decisions around AI.)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair15:08:14

Make small, fast bets.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair15:08:01

To watch the other four talk Dr. Joe Davis talk excerpts, Vangaurd has posted them on YouTube: search for "Vanguard joe davis megatrends"

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain15:08:57

Key point: using AI WITH experts, not instead of.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:48

Let's face it: Internal audit has a reputation of being conservative adopters of technology. To see internal audit exploring ways to use GenAI is... pretty freaking wild and awesome.

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RussWeb16:08:42

In regulated environments, the effectiveness and efficiency of your risk and audit functions can make or break your agility and focus.

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Martin Deslongchamps - Triton Digital16:08:19

Using GenAI to power interal audits scopes is bold! Love it! 👌

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:11

I think it's amazing to even imagine audit plans being actually designed around relevant risks, and scoping it accordingly. As much as I love the audit community, most audit plans look pretty close to "what we did last year."

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:47

Annual planning of ‘what to audit’ seems slow. If you’re using AI to help determine what to audit, would it make sense to iterate the audit plan more frequently?

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Paul Gaffney16:08:16

Great point. Audit orgs still seem to be “plan and execute” orgs in a world increasingly demanding “sense and respond” behaviors. A continuous, machine-learning driven, fluid action plan for “what we be drawing scrutiny right now” would seem to be a true modernization of “audit.”

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:51

It seems like a natural progression if you’re looking to move from a defensive role/posture to an offensive one.

Christine Hudson17:08:20

Yes! Try inviting audit to quarterly business planning. Audit can be an awesome partner in changing level 3 systems.

Tom Murphy (CTO, Title21)16:08:53

Auditors, audit others with AI.... Interesting conundrum on auditing with a tools that itself needs to constantly be audited. Very interesting and potentially a coup to audit turnarounds

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Jordan Stoner16:08:31

The auditor should talk to George Costanza

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:06

I’m definitely seeing a trend of training AI on hyper focused internal language and translating that across domains and regions. Audits, Semantic Issues, etc

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:33

Much better than using it to write a song about my dogs 🐕

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:39

I think you might be onto something. Let’s make a slide deck 😂

Alex (IT Revolution, Conference Staff)16:08:12

we'll need a lot of embedded video

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:09

Or just one giant embedded video and we can take the day off

RussWeb16:08:49

Having the technical leadership (not just consultants) in the risk org will be crucial to make this pivot. Bringing in signals, systems thinking..etc.

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Christine Hudson16:08:51

Oooh, what an interesting culture shift! “People who usually play defense, learning to play offense!”

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Cornelia Davis16:08:57

Using AI to generate an index over a body of content is one of my favorite use cases, and IMHO is one of the safest.

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Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)16:08:18

Curious - how are teams who have implemented GenAI measuring the gains? What are some of the results folks are seeing?

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:22

Follow on question: can traditional DORA metrics be used?

Levi Geinert16:08:22

In regards to developer productivity gains we discuss that here. https://itrevolution.com/product/devops-enablement-with-genai/

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution16:08:01

👟 And now, please welcome Fernando Cornago, Vice President Digital Tech, adidas here to present Journey to Composability in Commerce: Boosting Efficiency and Innovation with GenAI at adidas

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Tom Murphy (CTO, Title21)16:08:10

Change lives through sports! Love it and doing it with IT Enablement!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:01

"3-4 releases per hour", 1B consumers per year.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:24

2021: 1400 engineers at peak

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:47

2024: 700 engineers — focused on capabilities that matter

Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)16:08:53

“Did we just need to have muscles where it matters?”

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Paul Gaffney16:08:26

Yes! #GetSmall more with less and smaller teams. Love Adidas 50% resource reduction with better results. You can do it too!

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations16:08:50

Had a team go from 50+ to 22 engineers (organically, via natural attrition), getting more done with higher quality. At first, as we didn’t replace people, people were nervous. It helped when we reframed it as being better. Doesn’t getting better mean that we should be able to do more per person? Isn’t that proof of being better?

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:12

Their retail channel partners (Dick's Sporting Goods, etc) now building great e-commerce, growing 10%+ annually. Now adidas focusing on wholesale part of business, less on directo to consumer.

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:20

Autonomy without alignment is just more chaos.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:21

Adidas: first in China on TikTok, grew to 30% of revenue! Tried in Europe: totally failed: resulted in 4 sales.

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Robin Yeman16:08:52

I never imagined I would be hearing about Generative AI from Adidas. Amazing to see impact of technology!

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Robin Yeman16:08:09

@mik Flow framework is showing up everywhere!!

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)16:08:35

I was just texting with him this morning! It’s not the same without MikDLT. 😢

Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:33

Just ask the simple question; “What are the 3 things you’re going to do every quarter?”

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)16:08:35

“We used the Flow Framework to figure out what part of our spend we wanted to capitalize - build versus run” 💡

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:09

Love the visualization of team health.

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:00

Reduce operating cost by 25% in one year. 🤯

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:23

Crazy copilot stats.

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Paul Gaffney16:08:37

“Pure IDE” time is not a measure of engineering effectiveness. Just sayin.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:21

I thought about this pure IDE time and the speaker did a good job with the graphic breaking down time used. Perhaps it would be better reframed as reducing ineffective time or toil

Robert Kelly (Liatrio)16:08:42

This would never happen, but I could be spending 10 hours a day working on the WRONG thing...

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Paul Gaffney16:08:27

And “talking” to CoPilot counts as “pure IDE” time if you do it in the IDE. But talking to real live people doesn’t….

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Fernando Cornago16:08:16

Thanks all for the comments, fully aware of developers not being measured by time on ide but on value. However, the exercise has been useful to confirm that the teams that transformed are much productive (and happier). But as said, the teams working in legacy and dependent systems are there because we chose not to invest there. Not to be fast there.

Fernando Cornago16:08:24

We are using the exercise now as a benchmark for teams that self-report they don’t feel productive. It’s to protect them from excesive waste and lack of investment in their technical debt

Fernando Cornago16:08:48

Also good to see working in transformation is even more valuable than tooling

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations16:08:55

This is one of the secrets of Pair Programming: it generally results in more coding time per person on average. (As well as that time being more productive.)

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Adam Brunner - John Deere16:08:19

I love this data, the lens, and the way Adidas navigated this conversation.

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Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)16:08:54

They way they went about measuring everything really let’s them make evidence based decisions. Surprisingly rare to see because it’s sneaky hard to do. Awesome stuff.

G16:08:21

An engineer's main job is to solve hard problems for the business not spending time on the keyboard.

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Max Reele16:08:24

That just made me so curious... "the teams that are not high performing is because we don't want them to be... they're good where they are"

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Fernando Cornago16:08:24

Basically they work in areas of the company that require low change (ERP, some legacy integrations with scm…). So investment doesn’t worth the pain

Jason Yip16:08:49

How does the increased time on keyboard correlate to lead time for changes?

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Fernando Cornago16:08:50

100% the productive teams are the ones with more releases and open technologies

Bjorn (Liatrio)16:08:58

Improving ways of working and architecture is more important than GenAI 🙌

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:14

I think that more time-on-keyboard (TOK) for engineers is not necessarily a good goal. There is a lot of benefit to creativity in engineering as well as alignment activities. Reducing repetitive tasks is great, but I don’t like the idea of a simple metric to increase TOK.

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations16:08:54

I agree that more TOK isn’t 100% going to be a win. Still, there’s almost certainly some information content in the number. Outliers are probably interesting to investigate. Good metrics don’t give you answers, they allow you to ask good questions.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:02

It reminds me of the notorious “lines of code” metric which led to bloated code bases

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations16:08:19

True… and yet when I found some developers had contributed zero lines of code for several weeks in a quarter there was value in knowing that.

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Paul Gaffney16:08:20

Yep - I am certain that once some teams knew that someone was measuring “pure IDE” time, there was a lot more “activity” in the IDE!

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations16:08:10

Goodhart’s law at work. Which is why I liked @jchyip ‘s question about the correlation of IDE time with lead time (or other flow metrics).

Fernando Cornago16:08:16

I love it: “metrics are just there to create questions, they don’t give answers”

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Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)17:08:50

Exactly - “When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.”

Ann Perry - IT Revolution16:08:18

☁️ Please welcome J*ohn Rauser, Director of Software Engineering, Cisco Cloud Security* and Anand Raghavan, Senior Director of Engineering, AI, Cisco. They're here to present Generative AI in the Enterprise: One Year Later

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:31

Love the @johnarauser energy

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Jordan Stoner16:08:36

#bettertogether

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:51

Cisco Security: grew 32% YOY (!!)

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Tom Murphy (CTO, Title21)16:08:56

Wow!!! 60% is software and services!!!

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Robin Yeman16:08:27

Mind Blown Cisco is one of the largest software companies in the world!!

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Adam Brunner - John Deere16:08:14

I'd love to see the Adidas store with a lens on flow state in particular. Time on keyboard has partial overlap but time at whiteboard is just as important. Has anyone looked at this in their own organization?

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Tom Murphy (CTO, Title21)16:08:41

Love the productivity and ROI!!!

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations16:08:17

I like the comparison of using the AI assistants to working with/without Google.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:29

A little wiring a little winning :first_place_medal:

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Idan Gazit16:08:20

GitHub Copilot 🚀 (disclosure: unabashedly biased)

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:39

These are the metrics that I love to see for Dev Productivity. 50% reduction on time for documentation and code auto-complete 30% reduction in repetitive tasks.

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Robert Kelly (Liatrio)16:08:24

This is improving "potential productivity" or "perceived productivity" which absolutely makes a developer's live better. Where it breaks down is if the system around the engineer/dev team doesn't improve to allow for flow of value.

Idan Gazit16:08:06

Harder to quantify: the amount of happiness that comes from those reductions in drudge work.

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Jason Yip16:08:07

Still thinking about how to name the layers in a simple, clear way instead of the numbers.

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Adam Brunner - John Deere16:08:42

This projection of AI on the three layers is 🔥. It resonates so well

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:38

"We delayed our product launch so we could take advantage of our internal AI platform" Short-term pain/delay, for longer-term enterprise gain. 🔥

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:15

“Learn from the customer.” … what a great place to start.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:21

Literally, taking one for every other team. There must have been a product manager / P&L owner who might have been upset.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:26

I hope the github copilot crew got some sleep last night. I have a feeling they are going to be popular today

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Sam Yeats16:08:50

John helpfully reminding us that we’ve seen this movie before

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)16:08:09

“Make it easy to make it better” (make it easier for the customer to give you feedback to improve the product)

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Robin Yeman16:08:33

Make it easy to make it better!! Words to live by!!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:03

"Your average 10 year old firewall might have millions of rules." OMG.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:27

"Shadowed rules. Duplicate rules." (This is a bit triggering.)

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)16:08:37

"That livestream is so addictive" --presenter Anand Raghavan regarding the live display of Slack messages on the main stage, which he was reading just before his turn to speak.

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)16:08:19

StageSync FTW! 🙌

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)16:08:40

Yes! Our StageSync Slack-to-stage tool is amazing! Ping me if you’d like to have it at your conference. 🙂

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)16:08:24

I'll do that when I launch one 🙂

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:10

Part of me is still gobsmacked that LLMs can apparently parse firewall rules.

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Joel Boyles - PEOPLEIT.COM16:08:16

"In product integration of thumbs up thumbs down" (making it easy to get user feedback)

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Paul Gaffney16:08:51

Anand coordination of fab sneakers with his shirt is 🔥

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Paul Gaffney16:08:51

Anand coordination of fab sneakers with his shirt is 🔥

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Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)16:08:02

I was just about to comment on how strong Anand’s shoe game was. . . take notes, @chris656

Kristin Y16:08:28

I can’t see the fab sneakers from back here 😭

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Doguhan16:08:00

I need to go shoe shopping after this

Disha Dudhal16:08:25

Very space coded! love it

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)16:08:14

Perhaps Adidas will release a fab sneaker in honor of ETLS

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Adam Brunner - John Deere16:08:41

💡 IT Revolution should release an AI solution where we can chat with virtual versions of all the authors to get feedback on our ideas. That would be fun to explore. Virtual Jon Smart telling me to do better on my OKR would be pretty cool.

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)16:08:11

Haha yes, train the AI on the books, papers, and of course the videos, especially @jonathansmart1' CRAP (Certified Real Agile Practitioner) Lightning Talk.

Christopher Williams16:08:58

Adrian Cockcroft created the repo with a concept to create a GPT for your own content https://github.com/adrianco/meGPT

Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:17

Dora has something like that! @nathen.harvey mentioned it in his talks!

dora-love 3
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nathenharvey16:08:34

https://ask.dora.dev

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)16:08:50

“2025 will be the year of agentic workflows.”

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:46

AI implementation use case thread -> 🧵

Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:24

We use it for solving semantic issues a lot, db migrations, connecting disparate vendors data structures and rapidly onboarding them etc.

Anbu Ilango - Discogs16:08:50

We use it For Fraud, Spam deterrence and mitigation

Ann Perry - IT Revolution16:08:56

:adobe: Say hello to Brian Scott, Principal Architect, Adobe here to present Generative AI Governance Strategy at Scale

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Tom Murphy (CTO, Title21)16:08:09

Love the hat, Brian!!!

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:44

50+ products at Adobe… really?

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Topo Pal16:08:44

Brian has been creating magic for a while! I am jealous

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:02

Adobe: among many things, the creator of the PDF

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Charlie Lambers16:08:45

Macromedia Flash was the peak of the Internet. The glory days are behind us.

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:47

real “get off the lawn!” vibes :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Howard Patty16:08:47

the legacy of homestar runner strongbad

Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:51

Ebaumsworld conference is next week at the Tropicana iirc /s

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:14

I recall a radiolab podcast from 2017 covering an adobe gen ai product that could replicate a persons voice for text to speech with only 5-10 minutes of sample data. Very forward thinking

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:22

I'm hoping that someday, Brian will co-present with the SRE team that supports the insane Firefly product! What an adventure that must have been!!!!

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Brian Scott17:08:57

That’s coming

David Stenglein16:08:53

Homestar and Strongbad! Very yes!

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Sam Yeats16:08:30

“The system is down” by Strong Bad a classic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtQpThwWQtQ

David Stenglein17:08:56

Nothing like some Strongbad techno!

Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain16:08:51

Props to @brian.l.scott recognizing Dan Neff as a partner in progress even though he wasn’t able to make it. 💖

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:12

"A funny thing happens: When you hang out with VPs and SVPs, and you're one of the few ICs (individual contributors), you always walk away with more work". 😂

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster16:08:43

I love this infographic for balancing these tradeoffs

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Robin Yeman16:08:55

Lesson Learned, don’t hang out with VPs or SVPs, Individual Contributors all the way!!

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Billy Robins - Jellyfish16:08:11

"Move as fast as a developer, with the certainty of a lawyer." Brian Scott Adobe .... #KillerLine

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair16:08:45

"We needed to move as fast as a developer, but with the certainty of a lawyer" 😂 (thank you!!)

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Billy Robins - Jellyfish17:08:36

"with the certainty of a lawyer" I do believe.

Nick Eggleston (free radical)17:08:39

certianty, according to the post two or three above yours...

Adam Brunner - John Deere17:08:24

💡 Thinking about the concepts of OSPO living near the AI legal, risk, and privacy concerns just opened a new door to explore.

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Jason Cox - Disney17:08:52

Vendors slapping “AI” labels on their products and selling the same thing? :thinking_face:

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Dan Gradl17:08:20

Nah you just need to register the .ai domain

Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)17:08:45

hey they might be making an api call to OpenAI somewhere back there!

Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain17:08:26

Two distinct use cases at Adobe: 1. internal use cases 2. external use cases

Robin Yeman17:08:53

Twister early warning system! I need one of those.

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Joel Boyles - PEOPLEIT.COM17:08:15

Can we use AI to evaluate the use cases of using AI?

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain17:08:23

Balance speed with safety. Such a common challenge.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:35

I missed it, was this an existing framework for evaluating risk and new processes at Adobe or something bespoke for AI use cases?

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)17:08:47

This was something new Brian created for these GenAI use cases.

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)17:08:41

“We started to treat the process like a product.”

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain17:08:25

Love this. Makes so much sense.

Amy McCain17:08:30

Love the idea of doing process retrospectives.

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Charlie Betz17:08:29

concern around sprawl continues to increase. Growing awareness of tradeoffs.

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John Ediger - VP of Transformation17:08:50

Love the use case model. Might be interesting to add some of the Value Canvas elements (from Jon Smart), e.g. outcome hypothesis & leading indicators.

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Robin Yeman17:08:01

#Modelzoos

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain17:08:01

They made a triage process for Security, Legal, and Compliance to streamline request process.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:04

What does “shift left traffic light filters” mean in this context? Quality gates?

Brian Scott17:08:13

Yes Quality gates

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:29

Awesome talk btw @bscott some fantastic highly quotable lines and heuristics

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:08:14

"it's been 15 years since I've given a talk... and might be another 15 years before I'm ever invited back" 😂

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution17:08:18

🔆 Please welcome Steve Yegge, Cody Platform Guy, Sourcegraph here to present: The Death of the Junior Developer, and Other Lessons Learned

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Robin Yeman17:08:57

“I am going to say something that gets me into trouble” - Says me every day

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Dave Borzillo17:08:15

“The cable guy” git ‘er done

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Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)17:08:05

Had this cable guy in mind:

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)17:08:29

Free money, but less stuff (and then ppl wonder why prices are going up...)

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Jason Yip17:08:53

"It was not until I went to Google that I knew what entitlement meant." Steve Yegge

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Tim Haagenson (American Airlines)17:08:34

Speaking through adversity. This may be my new favorite talk format!

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Tim Haagenson (American Airlines)17:08:34

Speaking through adversity. This may be my new favorite talk format!

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Jason Yip17:08:07

No matter what happens, keep rolling forward.

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Joel Boyles - PEOPLEIT.COM17:08:55

The lingering gifts of the lock-down: entitlement and anxiety.

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Charlie Lambers17:08:05

It is with great sorrow (and a bit of code cleanup) that we announce the passing of the beloved Junior Developer title.

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Doguhan17:08:21

The demise of grass-fed organic code begins 🚨

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:50

“Completions are a gimmick”

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Andy Domeier17:08:53

Your wrong because the outcome is inconvenient... 😆

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:08:13

This is literally true: in my post following Yegge's post, >> PS: this is literally true: my wife/boss just told me she met someone who is a junior in computer science at Boston College, and asked me if I had any advice for her. I told her to email me, because I will send her a link to Steve’s post the instant it’s up.

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Paul Gaffney17:08:23

Chat models suggest a LOT of BS code and you have to be deeply experienced to get “coding” value out of them. This seems very hard for people who aren’t fundamentally developers to understand

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Paul Gaffney17:08:51

And I am pretty certain they suggest a lot of BS code is that they are “trained” on the current corpus of code - which contains a lot of very bad code.

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Idan Gazit17:08:48

I mean… is that too different from the humans though :thinking_face:

Tim Haagenson (American Airlines)17:08:58

Lead Engineer responsible for choosing what we DON'T include in the RAG

Joseph Enochs17:08:33

Team signup for the ETLS GenAI concept Hackathon:

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)17:08:45

CHOP - CHat Oriented Programming - used by many senior programmers (but not junior ones -- yet)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:08:54

Also literally true: I wrote: >> As a parent of a 16 year old, and two 14 year olds, how do I best prepare them for a world where entry-level jobs for new college graduates might be very, very different, and maybe even potentially far fewer in number?

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Charlie Betz17:08:56

if it takes a senior dev to do CHOP where will we get them if there is no longer a career path to get there?

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RussWeb17:08:57

see the life and condition of MainFrame dev

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Doguhan17:08:09

Exactly what I was about to say

Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:34

In my opinion there’s a subtext here that’s missing: the time to become senior level is going to go down as well. (I mean what even is a senior engineer? That’s not an industry standard)

Charlie Betz17:08:58

In my crazier moments I think about Ender's Game

Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)17:08:11

I’d imagine the qualities we look for in a jr. Dev will shift vs no new devs will be hired, right? Or are my glasses rose-colored?

Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:22

Yeah I think there will be a subset of comp sci majors that are fantastic at reviewing code and others that are great at pure solutions (Faraday type thinkers) and it’ll sort itself out

Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:43

The ones who squeak by just pounding out Java boiler plate will go into second careers etc

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Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)17:08:52

Right, and that sort of boiler plate code is something that frameworks like Spring were supposed to solve a while ago, right

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster18:08:52

Gosh yeah but the entire plugin ecosystem with spring just created an entirely different boiler plate problem

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RussWeb17:08:03

Sr. Dev then begins to look like the same future as MainFrame dev?

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Debbie Brey17:08:23

“That’s so February”

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Denzil Tarakan17:08:25

Pair Programming is now becoming reality with CHOP and help reap benefits of the concept introduced back in 1995.

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Paul Gaffney17:08:06

Yes pair programming with a good assistant will be really powerful. I’ve also observed that people are much kinder to the LLM co-pilot than they are to human co-pilots!

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)17:08:32

Human co-pilots are so necessary! (speaking of airlines, with the death of pilots mid-air in the news recently)

Robin Yeman17:08:40

All of us are now RAG shops

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Idan Gazit17:08:12

Senior Devs are still going to be doing what Senior Devs are supposed to be doing: architecture, gluing different parts of the engineering business together, broadcasting best practices. Plus ça change…

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Mike Combs17:08:27

"Coding is changing out from underneath you while you're still deciding whether to use it (Gen AI)"

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Martin Deslongchamps - Triton Digital17:08:36

Wow! What a wake up call!!! 😂 😂 😂

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Olivier Jacques - AWS - DevEx17:08:59

Specialized agents are awesome. I have few of them that I use every day.

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)17:08:03

@ojacques2 could you share some of them that you use?

Olivier Jacques - AWS - DevEx20:08:48

Sure. I have an agent to create user stories from a PRD. One for getting advices on architecture (AWS). One for helping mentor my mentees. One for meeting notes. One for implementing MVPs. One for writing Amazon style. And it goes on…

Martin Deslongchamps - Triton Digital17:08:54

I’ll send this presentation to each of my engineers! 🧑‍💻 :female-technologist:

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Sam Yeats17:08:28

As fast as a developer with the of a lawyer

Kristin Y17:08:58

Will be calling my cable guy soon! 😂

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)17:08:03

Great talk @steve.yegge!!!

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Denzil Tarakan17:08:30

New Job title Lead CHOPer Principal CHOPer

upvotepartyparrot 3
Levi Geinert17:08:22

Not junior choper based on the blog and talk!

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)17:08:20

CHOPPER!!! That reminds me of One Piece!

Dan Gradl17:08:24

get to the chopper

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Philippe Tremblay17:08:55

If AI generates all code starting now, will it basically train on itself in perpetuity until the singularity? Is The Matrix built on top of React?

Beth Breiten17:08:04

Don’t Miss Gathr’s Demo at 12:20pm today at the Solutions Hub located in the Expo Hall. https://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com/event/1hAYU/solutions-hub-gathr-unleashing-genai-to-supercharge-your-development-lifecycle In today’s fast-paced tech environment, traditional management of DevOps, FinOps, SecOps, and other operational domains can lead to inefficiencies and competitive disadvantages. At Gathr, we believe GenAI is the key to unlocking a new era of XOps. Leading this transformation, our no-code platform empowers teams with flexible and intelligent solutions to enable automation and optimization. Join us for a dynamic 30-minute demo where we’ll showcase some use cases organizations have enabled to improve their teams’ performance, such as: • Conversational insights: allow teams to interact to and gain insights from their data using natural language • Intelligent pattern recognition: automatically identify trends and anomalies in performance results, suggesting targeted process improvements • Resource optimization: obtain inferences in metrics like infra usage and get recommendations for optimal utilization strategies, maximizing efficiency and minimizing costs • Proactive compliance and developer satisfaction: benchmark your work with best practices and review team sentiment to foster a healthier development environment Visit our Booth #305 or sign up for a free trial at xopsapps.gathr.one to see how Gathr can assist with your XOps initiatives and empower your teams to achieve more.

Beth Breiten17:08:27

Don’t Miss Oso’s Demo at 12:50pm today at the Solutions Hub in the Expo Hall. https://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com/event/1hAYH/solutions-hub-oso-marie-kondo-your-authorization-the-life-changing-magic-of-tidying-up-permissions - “Life truly begins only after you have put your authorization in order.” – Sam Scott, Cofounder/CTO of Oso. Most people have grown accustomed to home-grown authorization systems that do not spark joy. Adding just one new role can take months; forget about adding custom roles. Then add performance problems and bug bounties full of IDOR vulnerabilities. The idea of a fully decoupled, centralized system feels like a distant dream. Join us for an interactive demo to see how to begin decluttering your permissions iteratively––without any migrations and with minimal refactoring. http://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com https://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com/event/1hAYH/solutions-hub-oso-marie-kondo-your-authorization-the-life-changing-magic-of-tidying-up-permissions View more about this event at Enterprise Technology Leadership Summit Las Vegas 2024

Ann Perry - IT Revolution17:08:51

📣 And now, let's say hello to Patrick Debois, Dev(Sec)Ops Advisor &amp; Author, here to present: Every AI Engineer Deserves an AI Platform, and Other Lessons Learned

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)17:08:59

The fun continues!!!

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)17:08:54

DevOps is dead, long live DevOps!!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:08:57

"Our CEO said, we want every team to use this new technology"

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:08:55

"The people in the data dungeon... oh, they call it the data lake."

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations17:08:06

Data Lake = Data Dungeon

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Robin Yeman17:08:07

Patrick Debois “I am bored of DevOps”

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:58

Is this like Lynyrd Skynrd getting sick of playing Freebird?

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations17:08:30

In the technology adoption lifecycle Patrick is an innovator. He can’t help but move onto new things!

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RussWeb17:08:32

Try SAFe ! :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing::rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)17:08:42

Steps to scale the change: platform, enablement, governance 💡

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Robin Yeman17:08:57

Platform Enablement Governance

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Jason Cox - Disney17:08:10

RAGops

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:08:37

In previous talks, @patrick.debois256 talked about how Marketing funded so much of R&D, because they were so eager to get something/anything to market.

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Disha Dudhal17:08:40

Thumbs up and Thumbs down might not be an optimal feedback metric in most cases- people can do a thumbs down just because they had a bad coffee. A better way of assessing feedback is - if people copied the AI asistant’s response v/s if they click the Try Again button to get a different response.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:55

Don’t pull AI adoption costs from your production budget if you don’t have a silver bullet use case

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Christine Hudson17:08:20

"After 6 months everybody hates frameworks" [...] "they're a thin veneer of abstraction". Because, this: "They're useful at first, but once you get a little bit under the hood, you're able to do it yourself." (better)

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:48

As someone currently building a framework :feelsbad:

Christine Hudson17:08:19

Lol. Frameworks are useful at first! Don't feel badly. 🙂

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)17:08:14

I love that Patrick is emphasizing tests and the difficulties to overcome. This needs to happen to have stable, productionalized applications that support change.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair17:08:39

YES! Code review times is going up, because more code is being generated. (I know of several pilots where they killed it, because it was putting too much burden on senior devs!!! Not tenable.)

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster17:08:18

One important thing to consider from what Patrick just said: AI bit rot is a real risk. Training RAG models on LLM generated code has poorly understood implications but so far it seems contraindicative

Charlie Betz17:08:40

Ironies of Automation here https://pdf.sciencedirectassets.com/314898/1-s2.0-S1474667082X74331/1-s2.0-S1474667017628970/main.pdf?X-Amz-Security-Token=IQoJb3JpZ2luX2VjEHIaCXVzLWVhc3QtMSJIMEYCIQCy%2FPtywNmvRUKCTDkZwSzsqL33oxNSsMXkQzy95xpe3gIhAIEKV4UedsUH3iWtx3G4Ak4%2F5m0HZ%2BxuY7M1PxheGj8%2BKrMFCHsQBRoMMDU5MDAzNTQ2ODY1Igy1tXZH3eb4%2FZLTH3AqkAWr9VCE8ZTDMzLMgyUZGBuyM4FdL7ngWwia9IEE0WRXTTEFLBtMPRJfxZQG2FLE1nDta9zdpEErKJeOrW6yv%2BhfKRrPkOyyedVhwJeL9UpoprtR6QFn0LTE3vc%2FXhA8GISyXKKdvltHNuKDWCBscRCsT7XEkyu5uhVLPGjVfi1gnjxK3SLvC23JZtn8hjrl0nV03VYzVPcYMcMz72gWJ4d2z6YJCbSGk%2F4KcG3ikWvc7z30wH6FoiaaC9rvJ%2FRwYB89BmPbD4vsdC%2B6MUyRvmcpduuPBb9gzLwqDFbETktRC%2Bj5Qim%2Bn7MLX2mx28c%2BA6478QbWTMevN%2FHwQsS54VPxDmtiSIT08I6AFGWHRkg2hOfe6joBXb6ugOuLc%2FSpBsfw1B7bv%2BbV2vqDziYBPhs2YwTwRYc1qKqYiI4oOkGR3vnfRFzpgFPZiW8kg5jrbIpyXEL73U%2BRcWpRBMraPXCsNoJVOspzCfNK91TrM9ZJAHEnV86zR27qAARcGHRuw5TKeBg7ix2XyE1uDWuVlgao45Q5ZtMjjUnXS3Jox09ug1oA2WIeh6J2ooqgl0kzDl81fYnQjnRZMw0rUpvvaxBc89vlf8veyiaKp35DX5IHMBTh0CiAhe%2FQd6XWozEIN2h0SFOpHf1TRTwgFYDZl16QNSWlvztcaF9FG54a17mE%2FijgJ4lcT6RoC56LWSrkvG5VjqHew1KNCJRziiiXxPOoCe9SSYAAmmMuX4SzpwNpepfY%2FnbgXKVVBeiK0BNoPLX7IZcYaT5QCTuQWDc6F44XILQ3ed6yiJVaS5bBupQo%2F3Nq3K8brkmUp3sfR7xH%2BTILvTsNe6c3RoZ%2FXC9EngM53N7yPLzcxLpzeDZj%2BhfvvjDyx5i2BjqwASeAy%2F4J4hNZMVkbRmiZ%2FQV0oftfoh%2FOLiiy82W20SOn04HtRZ7w5sxacGHJ7sJqW0yd%2BRzUrnioHnLazdPkIWDIe1eGON4UW1h19WNou%2BQfeLnKzNgmXk3muKoWJitMqFZ9NsSqhgsbfGPdgqAv6tctq4ZM3T5jXKYSZbuaDns9PTF1WJNhmPG4kc7dooJviihT6NOmLCvbkm6057NLSrYn0kW5cgKtEuhsNTRe5V1K&amp;X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&amp;X-Amz-Date=20240821T175612Z&amp;X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&amp;X-Amz-Expires=300&amp;X-Amz-Credential=ASIAQ3PHCVTYYEHICZHY%2F20240821%2Fus-east-1%2Fs3%2Faws4_request&amp;X-Amz-Signature=27cd1754ba667e06bb09bf4ace22cb6ac32d8f37355ca686ed3d3895f10f4865&amp;hash=9231e47c4e54a31916b54ce45a1760b13b6f0fdd6571cab31848765d2e3948fb&amp;host=68042c943591013ac2b2430a89b270f6af2c76d8dfd086a07176afe7c76c2c61&amp;pii=S1474667017628970&amp;tid=spdf-147c2483-ab51-4ea9-869a-63fc2686502b&amp;sid=28b2236f4594e3424d898d877c069b69b373gxrqa&amp;type=client&amp;tsoh=d3d3LnNjaWVuY2VkaXJlY3QuY29t&amp;ua=10145d0751035204565a&amp;rr=8b6c7f988f7a0add&amp;cc=us

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Leaf (Jessica Roy), MassMutual17:08:27

If learning fills the time we spent producing, how will that affect the “time in IDE” measure we were talking about…

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Damon Edwards18:08:42

Or put it this way… is the IDE even the right thing you want devs to “be in” in the future?

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Paul Gaffney18:08:46

well if that becomes a measure, seems like it would preference an IDE-based “learning” tool :)

Ann Perry - IT Revolution18:08:36

Say hello to Paige Bailey, GenAI Developer Relations Lead, Google, here to present: How Google Is Radically Transforming Enterprise Software Development With Gemini

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:29

Thank you, @amandalewis, for making this connection!!!! 🙏

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Steve Yegge18:08:11

Gemini rocks!

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Damon Edwards18:08:14

Great detail by Patrick! Excited to hear that him and John Willis are putting together a road show of hackathons and workshops to help people dig in.

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Adam Brunner - John Deere18:08:58

As an engineer, @patrick.debois256 just summarized my anxiety with where we are in the hype curve of introducing AI into how we work and our digital products. I can't wait to see this space develop and move right on this journey. I'd recommend putting a chasm on this picture created by the lack of deterministic results. AI needs confidence more then deterministic solutions of our past.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:06

Using Gemini Flash has been amazing — they recently lowered cost by 75%, and there's even a way you can use API for FREE. (They can train on that. But, the whole notion of "driving cost of intelligence to zero" is really happening.)

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Paige Bailey18:08:52

And getting exponentially bigger 😅

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster19:08:29

Can you share any metrics on the number of tokens alphabet is using internally? I’ve heard great things about the internal chat tooling

Steve Yegge18:08:00

This is why CHOP is getting amazing — it’s driven by the foundation model advances.

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Robert Kelly (Liatrio)18:08:38

It’s just a natural flow extension. It’s also a way of “documenting” or logging what would otherwise be your internal monologue.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations18:08:06

I’m reminded of the TED Talk “We’re all cyborgs now”. This is going to be increasingly true as our machines have a memory of everything we’ve written and everything we’ve read and can not just answer questions but proactively prompt us to action based on that data.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:39

Amazing how big the "whole" of "coding" is — and the value when you've captured all of it. Telemetry, issues, service calls, code commits, compute, etc...

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Paul Gaffney18:08:51

500k years of software development activity! But what % was “pure IDE” time?

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Paige Bailey19:08:24

In general, <10% of where engineers spend their time is in the IDE.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:12

Oh. Testing. I forgot about that!!! Cc @patrick.debois256 😂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:20

26% of code written by code completions; 50% of code commits were machine generated?

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Steve Yegge18:08:01

Yeah, we find that chat programming generates a lot of code per query, so it bumps the numbers way up.

Jason Cox - Disney18:08:21

26% of code generated at Google is from ML

Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster18:08:57

Are these code review features part of code Ai? Or planned for public release?

Steve Yegge18:08:26

Google’s stuff is almost always internal-only, and I’m pretty sure their code infrastructure falls into that category, because it relies on some lower-level infra like high speed networks.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster18:08:13

Dang, a constant topic of my 1 on 1s are how to generate more feedback on code reviews asynchronously.

Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster18:08:17

I suppose this is where CHOP comes in. Is anyone posting their chat dialogues with PRs in your experience @steve.yegge ? That seems like it will become really relevant as we go further down the rabbit hole

Steve Yegge18:08:39

In my experience, CHOP dialogs tend to be really long, thousands of lines. I haven’t had a chance to do conversations with the LLM during PRs yet, but I agree that it’s on the way!

Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster18:08:13

Maybe just the links to the convo logs for audit logs? Please come find me as a new expert consultant in CHOP code reviews /s (your talk was the first time I had heard the term :) )

Paige Bailey19:08:50

Gemini features are being integrated into Google Cloud, and already work via the APIs and AI Studio (if you ask Gemini to review your code :) )

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:06

On upgrades: one of my fave presentations was Jonathan Ju from Google, Java platform team, describing how difficult it was for devs to migrate from Java8 to Java 17 or something. Even Google devs aren't great at understanding heap space — the result was ballooning of memory usage, and tons of OOM errors in production.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:48

Automated analysis of screen captures using product to identify friction points. For thousands of user sessions. 🤯

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Paul Gaffney18:08:02

Gemini as Product Manager and UX designer! Nice - not distracted by “product vision” and instead driven entirely by reality.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster18:08:13

The logical extension: ux transforms wildly as AI product designers begin designing experiences for AI agents

Jason Cox - Disney18:08:57

Love the “friction logs from user videos” to help capture UX improvement opportunities. Fascinating.

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Denzil Tarakan18:08:45

My mind responding with paraphrases of WOW!!! as Paige clicks through implementation of Gemini

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Steve Yegge18:08:14

I want to believe Gemini did most of these awesome slides.

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RussWeb18:08:57

religious statement! :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Paige Bailey18:08:37

Full disclosure: I usually do get Gemini to help me create slides (especially for design and images) :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Robin Yeman18:08:31

Software Engineering is a team sport!!

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Martin Deslongchamps - Triton Digital18:08:31

Google has the possibility to replace developers…based on a PRD! Not sure I am ready for it… god it’s a mind blowing presentation! 👏:skin-tone-2:

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Steve Yegge18:08:54

I heard a very similar pitch a few weeks ago from another big company.

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Martin Deslongchamps - Triton Digital18:08:37

It’s concerning… no?

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Jason Yip18:08:04

That makes the PRD the programming language.

Louis-Alex B. , Platform Engineering Lead18:08:32

I guess it's finally time to be more serious about my carpenter side gig :robot_face:😅

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Jordan Stoner18:08:19

Back to the OG power tools

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster18:08:06

I’m just hoping my Ai lottery tickets investments pay off so I can enjoy the glorious future our robot overlords will offer us

upvotepartyparrot 1
Louis-Alex B. , Platform Engineering Lead18:08:39

@levi.geinert The domain is already registered, got beaten to it. I'm amazed and scared at the same time.

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Paige Bailey19:08:25

Personal plan: electrician, or coffeeshop + laundromat near my hometown in Texas :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Louis-Alex B. , Platform Engineering Lead19:08:44

@webpaige Stop leading us to our doom 😅, it's not too late. I guess we'll need to start a support group for the reorientation of SWEs. But seriously, what you guys do is amazing!

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster20:08:02

Haha if Paige is worried now I’m worried!

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution18:08:30

🙌:skin-tone-4: Next up is Idan Gazit, Senior Director of Research at GitHub Next, GitHub, here to present Reaching for AI-Native Developer Tools

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Charlie Betz18:08:08

getting 85% there but struggling on the last 15% is a lament I've heard forever about frameworks & accelerators

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)18:08:31

I’ve also heard (and felt) the struggle with the first 15% - just getting started, where, how, … This stuff helps with that, too.

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Denzil Tarakan18:08:58

With punched cards, finding a program to identify LCM - it's in Aisle 5, Bay 21, Tray 3

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Robin Yeman18:08:07

Bolting on chat to everything that moves 🤓

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)18:08:54

It’s today’s equivalent of the mobile app from a decade ago.

RussWeb18:08:30

sure...bolt-on chat is v.0567 but it's not done yet...

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Robin Yeman18:08:34

Success is measured by what escapes the lab - new metric!!

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster18:08:42

I’m really enjoying the distinctions and differences between the different perspectives of these speakers

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:55

The notion of "this is so limiting" is so interesting — fascinating that http://Cursor.ai folks actually forked Visual Studio Code to escape the limitations of being "just an extension"

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Steve Yegge18:08:19

One could make the argument that VS Code needs to improve its extension APIs. 🙂

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Steve Yegge18:08:49

(So that Cursor didn’t have to fork)

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:06

God help all the IntelliJ plugin developers. 😂 I use the Cursive plugin, and the release notes complaining about breaking changes in IntelliJ are epic.

Steve Yegge18:08:57

IntelliJ does have a pretty rich platform, actually a lot more open and capable than VS Code’s (though Java Swing, ick) — but they break backwards compatibility all the time and yeah it really sucks as JetBrains plugin developer.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair21:08:58

That’s so super interesting!!! I have no experience with any of this, but suddenly, I’m imagining that IntellIJ gives you more access to the entire canvas, while VSCode traps you in windows or DOM elements? (My mind boggles that since last November, after years of almost no updates, it has new versions almost every week, and is broken half the time. I refuse to update it again, because it’s so aggravating when it breaks.)

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:54

Yes. The AI Slot Machine!!!! 😂

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:17

"You get the worst outcomes when you ask for ambiguous things." <-- that's so helpful.

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RussWeb18:08:43

"prompt crafting"... sounds alot like "I'm so good at searching!" Our future devs are yesterday's internet deal shoppers.

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RussWeb18:08:43

"prompt crafting"... sounds alot like "I'm so good at searching!" Our future devs are yesterday's internet deal shoppers.

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Robert Kelly (Liatrio)18:08:11

So you say you want requirements…

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Olivier Jacques - AWS - DevEx18:08:38

s/google it/prompt it/

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Robert Kelly (Liatrio)18:08:45

So much value is in the standard plan - review - build process that improves context.

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster18:08:52

The differing takes on “time in ide” remind me of Survivorship Bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

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Olivier Jacques - AWS - DevEx18:08:54

GenAI needs to help us delete code, refactor, make it efficient.

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David Faircloth - Wendy’s18:08:25

"how did you fix the bug?" "I deleted the comment"

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Clare Hawthorne18:08:22

I’d be curious if any of the tools we’ve learned about tackle this challenge!

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Stephen Fishman18:08:05

Maybe we need to stop saying that AI will replace SEs. Maybe it’s just going to shift them from black ink (writing code) to red ink (reviewing code).

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Robert Kelly (Liatrio)18:08:20

Orchestrators and composers.

Dave Borzillo18:08:47

Speclang ultimate no code platform?

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:09

"Compilers are deterministic. AI is not."

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Adam Brunner - John Deere18:08:14

"the parlor trick of generating code" 🔥 We could steal so much from the TDD movement and think about codifying our spec as a prompt versus a test and work with AI to design, test, and implement. I want to see these tools play in the full TDD flow. Hot take, practicing true test first TDD makes me a better prompter

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Tom Murphy (CTO, Title21)18:08:15

Compilers are deterministic, AI is not!!!

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Steve Yegge18:08:18

Some companies have started building a “semantic index” of their repos, where the LLM basically produces thousands of mini-PRDs describing the code base, which enables a bunch of stuff you could never do before. It’s absolutely 🤯 where they’re headed with it. I need to blog it up sometime soon.

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Scott Prugh (ETLS PC / CTO Uturn Data)18:08:15

That capability would be huge for legacy code bases that are difficult to understand.

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Scott Prugh (ETLS PC / CTO Uturn Data)18:08:36

I'd love to hear more on the tools coming here

Steve Yegge18:08:43

This is EXACTLY why they’re doing it. Legacy code bases.

Scott Prugh (ETLS PC / CTO Uturn Data)18:08:22

What are the names of tools you are seeing here?

Steve Yegge18:08:11

They are fully internal to the two companies I’m aware of that are doing it, and their names are terrible right now. “Document store” is what one is calling it. Not very descriptive.

Scott Prugh (ETLS PC / CTO Uturn Data)18:08:56

Hah. Everything is a Document Store.. I was thinking we might need to write a code analysis LLM that you can point at a legacy code base and it produce doc, mermaid, etc.

RussWeb18:08:15

@internettitan but we just saw so much AI to improve/optimize code. Why do I need SE to review it?

Disha Dudhal18:08:46

1. AI generated code might never run with your existing code base. or never run at all... 2. Improvised code might improve one aspect while severely affecting/degrading other aspects of your software/program

Stephen Fishman18:08:32

In a non deterministic world, can we afford to blindly trust the robot?

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Stephen Fishman18:08:19

In the 1990s everyone said the same thing was going to happen to animators when CGI arrived… Didn’t happen. In the 2010s everyone said the same thing about ops professionals when devops/automation became mainstream…. Didn’t happen. What makes this time so different? How will this unique time/context break Jevons’ paradox - increases in the efficiency of a resource actually lead to an increased rate of consumption of said resource through increased demand (e.g., when higher fuel efficiency and lower emission cars are sold, total driving and emissions go up, not down).

Jordan Stoner18:08:23

Will explain “the Overton window” tomorrow at my presentation

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Joel Boyles - PEOPLEIT.COM18:08:33

"Natural language programming is coming" #ETLS25

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Dan Gradl18:08:41

Reminds me of data notebooks

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Steve Yegge18:08:10

This is a really great idea, using the tools to move toward literate programming, which we’ve never been able to pull off before.

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain18:08:20

Is auto documentation problematic if it is a lie? :face_with_monocle:

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)18:08:20

“We’re helping people not just with their typing. We’re helping them with their thinking.”

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Adam Brunner - John Deere18:08:21

If you pair program, you often articulate all your thoughts out loud. These are navigation prompts for you and your pair partner. Make it so I can do this out loud with my voice. Join the discord between me and my pair, don't interrupt it with chat.

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James T Snell18:08:41

What did punch-card programmers think of IDE + Search Engines as they arrived? Software Engineering is here to stay, the tools are growing so 1 FTE can cover more ground.

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution18:08:28

💡Next up is Rosalind Radcliffe, IBM Fellow, CTO for CIO Technology Platform Team, IBM, here to present: Hosting Our All-Company AI Challenge

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain18:08:24

178,000 participants in a hack-a-thon… that’s a lot of pizza.

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Dan Gradl18:08:21

Gemini says you need 5086 medium pizzas.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:42

11,500 submitted projects!!!!

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain18:08:55

Was AI used in the judging process?

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RussWeb18:08:07

Jokes aside...what we learned from search engines is that it is a short path to the BOT teaching you how to talk it's language to get results, while you pretend you are good at teaching it what you want.

Christine Hudson18:08:11

"Only" 178,000 people participating. 11,500 projects submitted, all judged! Love how IBM was trying to invest in all it's humans learning, upskilling with this effort.

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Charlie Betz18:08:12

walking back from break with Rosalind, I mentioned (with some pride) that we were judging 26 submissions for the EA awards currently. She very graciously did not mention these numbers to me.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:04

"Challenge extended to Saturday because we broke the system" (capacity issues!)

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Blake Perkins [Defense, GenAI]18:08:54

I hope Brent...I mean Watson got a vacation after all this.

Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain18:08:24

Love the customer [0] model. Getting your own company invested in testing/breaking/using your own products is always worth the time and effort.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair18:08:10

The XZ attack continues to blow me away.

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Adam Brunner - John Deere19:08:10

Imagine if hackers used their systems thinking skills for organizational problems... So much potential.

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)19:08:55

diabolically clever

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James T Snell19:08:45

"As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy than to create." -Spock

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Brian Fox Cofounder/CTO Sonatype19:08:34

0% chance the attackers stopped at one project. The initial infiltration happened several years ago.

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)19:08:46

Exactly... how many projects do they already have in their pocket, contributing value until they can quietly let something slip by...

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:08:04

An unsettling question: what if OpenSSH wasn't actually the real target.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:08:16

I think Debian build servers were completely rebuilt, because it was assumed compromised.

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Jamie Doenges19:08:04

One of the most fascinating parts of XZ was the exceptionally high quality of the commit messages introducing the exploit

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:08:56

Program loading programs. Uh oh...

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)19:08:25

For XZ it took a while to develop the social trust to push through the expoit... the social hackery is quite clever

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:08:02

I love how Dr. Ethan Mollick put in invisible text on his website, which now shows up in ChatGPT.

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Paul Gaffney19:08:45

Sometimes the act of explaining the theory of an attack can become a roadmap to implementing a version of the attack…

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James T Snell19:08:51

The persistent attacker will learn the theory anyway. Raising awareness helps uplift the rest of us.

RussWeb19:08:45

not unlike a patient spy inserted in an org, with a long-range goal.

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)19:08:02

The team that pulled off XZ must be dying to tell someone 🤫

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain19:08:39

More likely a nation-state, typically not really interested in self promotion.

Nick Eggleston (free radical)19:08:52

Not the institution.. but the individuals actors... well, at least they get a mention in the classified internal history of the org...

James T Snell19:08:47

@nickeggleston just search LinkedIn for the resume that takes credit. Maybe ZeroCool did it

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:08:40

OMG. Same thing was attempted on jquery, loads, electron (?!?)... wasn't successful, but whoa. Like all single point of failure for all the JavaScript ecosystem.

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Robert Kelly (Liatrio)19:08:27

Strength comes from the community. > Friends don’t let friends commit backdoor code changes.

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RussWeb19:08:56

Single maintainer + pressure ...ouch. No peer review, no oversight. OSS fears 101 #WhyWeCantHaveNiceThings

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RussWeb19:08:56

Single maintainer + pressure ...ouch. No peer review, no oversight. OSS fears 101 #WhyWeCantHaveNiceThings

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James T Snell19:08:07

The inherent transparency of OSS gives opportunity to find this stuff too. But yeah, it's pretty terrifying.

Blake Perkins [Defense, GenAI]19:08:31

Teams of AI agents constantly trying to hack our own systems. A security Chaos Monkey if you will.

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Paul Gaffney19:08:14

Absolutely fabulous presentation.

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain19:08:55

Increasing transparency of code is good, but also better authentication/validation of contributors is helpful. How can you eliminate anonymous github user accounts?

Slackbot19:08:26

Reminder: Please submit your feedback for the talks you attended. It’s so valuable for us and the speakers. And after all, feedback is a gift and sharing is caring! Enter your feedback for those talks here: https://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com/ https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F07HGRF5J2G/feedback.png

RussWeb19:08:28

Could the OSS value proposition be dead vs the risk if I can rapidly produce reliable, performant, optimized code with AI when I need it?

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Beth Breiten19:08:07

Don’t Miss Gathr’s Demo at 12:20pm today at the Solutions Hub located in the Expo Hall. https://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com/event/1hAYU/solutions-hub-gathr-unleashing-genai-to-supercharge-your-development-lifecycle In today’s fast-paced tech environment, traditional management of DevOps, FinOps, SecOps, and other operational domains can lead to inefficiencies and competitive disadvantages. At Gathr, we believe GenAI is the key to unlocking a new era of XOps. Leading this transformation, our no-code platform empowers teams with flexible and intelligent solutions to enable automation and optimization. Join us for a dynamic 30-minute demo where we’ll showcase some use cases organizations have enabled to improve their teams’ performance, such as: • Conversational insights: allow teams to interact to and gain insights from their data using natural language • Intelligent pattern recognition: automatically identify trends and anomalies in performance results, suggesting targeted process improvements • Resource optimization: obtain inferences in metrics like infra usage and get recommendations for optimal utilization strategies, maximizing efficiency and minimizing costs • Proactive compliance and developer satisfaction: benchmark your work with best practices and review team sentiment to foster a healthier development environment Visit our Booth #305 or sign up for a free trial at xopsapps.gathr.one to see how Gathr can assist with your XOps initiatives and empower your teams to achieve more. (edited) http://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com https://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com/event/1hAYU/solutions-hub-gathr-unleashing-genai-to-supercharge-your-development-lifecycle View more about this event at Enterprise Technology Leadership Summit Las Vegas 2024

Idan Gazit19:08:00

Hey all! Want to talk about GitHub things or AI things or GitHub AI things or really anything? :thinking_face: Come on down to Capri 2 and let's talk! 🐙😸

Idan Gazit19:08:49

And feel free to bring your lunches

swyx19:08:17

excited to present after lunch ! please come say hi afterward, i'll be standing around outside

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Beth Breiten19:08:29

Don’t Miss Oso’s Demo at 12:50pm today at the Solutions Hub in the Expo Hall. https://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com/event/1hAYH/solutions-hub-oso-marie-kondo-your-authorization-the-life-changing-magic-of-tidying-up-permissions - “Life truly begins only after you have put your authorization in order.” – Sam Scott, Cofounder/CTO of Oso. Most people have grown accustomed to home-grown authorization systems that do not spark joy. Adding just one new role can take months; forget about adding custom roles. Then add performance problems and bug bounties full of IDOR vulnerabilities. The idea of a fully decoupled, centralized system feels like a distant dream. Join us for an interactive demo to see how to begin decluttering your permissions iteratively––without any migrations and with minimal refactoring. http://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com https://etlslasvegas2024.sched.com/event/1hAYH/solutions-hub-oso-marie-kondo-your-authorization-the-life-changing-magic-of-tidying-up-permissions View more about this event at Enterprise Technology Leadership Summit Las Vegas 2024

Steve Yegge19:08:54

@genek are all these talks recorded? I want to rewatch some of them. Will they go up on YT or somewhere?

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair19:08:49

Absolutely — they’ll be posted at https://videos.itrevolution.com/ “soon” — days, not weeks. Plenary talks likely first and faster. One more fantastic reason to get an ITREV membership! 🎉🎉🎉

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution20:08:52

And now, get ready for George Proorocu, IT OPS Chapter Lead - Cybersecurity &amp; Fraud, ING Bank, here to present Deep Fakes: The Lies We Can’t See 😱

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Robin Yeman20:08:30

A great way to start the afternoon “How AI is used by bad people to do evil things.”

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:08:19

Trend moving from "scam grandma or parents" to "scam enterprises"

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:08:24

Anyone notice that @aurel-george.proorocu seems, umm, really good at delivering these social engineering script? 😂

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Blake Perkins [Defense, GenAI]20:08:31

Seems like just yesterday that "is your refrigerator running" was the worst phone call we could get. Wow.

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Topo Pal20:08:41

Scary stuff.

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Jason Yip20:08:32

Wondering when we’re going to get regular testing for these type of scenarios like we do currently with phishing tests.

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Joachim Stapelfeldt20:08:54

I love these talks about business idea’s 😅

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Denzil Tarakan20:08:58

Imagine asking your CEO to rotate your head

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:08:43

I keep thinking about something @aurel-george.proorocu said to me at the speaker recpetion: “we will all be probably making more changes to approval processes than we have in the last fifty years.”

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Sascha Schärich (DevOps Evangelist at Deutsche Telekom IT)20:08:51

Who said it is hard to find a proper business case for AI?

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Topo Pal20:08:40

This is why I love in person conferences- no deep fakes

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Robbie Daitzman - Vanguard20:08:39

No mission impossible style masks in the room yet??

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain20:08:30

I’m sitting next to Tom Cruise… he’s shorter than I thought.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:08:52

Must practice these high pressure authentication scenarios

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)20:08:58

How accurately can AI determine if the video/audio is a deepfake? AI vs AI

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Jason Yip20:08:39

Supply chain attack on deep fake tools to embed a way to detect them.

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution20:08:20

🌟 Please welcome Shawn "Swyx" Wang, Writer, Founder, Devtools Startup Advisor, here to present Rise of the AI Engineer

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)20:08:41

@aurel-george.proorocu curious what software you used to create those videos. No reason. Just curious 😉

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George Proorocu21:08:52

Facefusion on Git for the video demo - https://github.com/facefusion/facefusion. http://Elevenlabs.io for the audio deepfakes.

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain20:08:57

“I’m trying to start my own industry.” This is a brilliant 4D-chess-level strategy.

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Robin Yeman20:08:40

No Takeses Backses?

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)20:08:17

It’s a legal term. :man-shrugging:

Jason Cox - Disney20:08:12

10 AI engineers to every 1 ML engineer

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain20:08:52

10 AI engineers walk into a bar…

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster20:08:38

None of them know how many rs are in strawberry

Robin Yeman20:08:15

Predicting Future easier than predicting weather

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Josh Phillips - Building Better Software Faster20:08:36

When do I sell my nvidia stock?

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Brian Scott20:08:37

GPU hoarding is so real 😆

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:08:42

Cost of entry in the LLM game: $100MM data center build (Microsoft); $25MM for data sets (Meta)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:08:26

$/intelligence race: so real. Gemini Flash API access is free. I had to read that a couple of times — couldn't quite believe it.

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Jason Cox - Disney20:08:38

$ per token goes down order of magnitude year over year

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Topo Pal20:08:04

New Moore’s law

Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain20:08:05

“Ready --> Fire--> Aim: ‘Agile comes to AI’” great slide title.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:08:11

All sorts of economics change when $ per token goes to near-zero.

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain20:08:53

of course, how much of the cost per token is being artificially lowered by VC funding?

Doguhan20:08:33

Thanks to Shawn’s article I now have 3 AI Engineering Xperts on my innovation team at Excella

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Robin Yeman20:08:57

Hallucinations as a feature

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair20:08:04

Hallucinations as an asset, creative force, etc.

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Christine Hudson20:08:01

Whoa. Hallucinations as innovation lever.

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Brian Scott20:08:04

AVOps in the back deploying a fix fast “Mouse cursor to the X”. Accelerated deployment

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Vamsi Bhogireddy20:08:07

That's so cool ..hallucinations as feature brings humanness to AI

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Blake Perkins [Defense, GenAI]20:08:21

Some of the greatest art humans have created came from "hallucination." We should not stifle this new source of creativity.

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)20:08:23

The insight density is super high in this talk… 💡

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Paul Gaffney20:08:51

Why “AI Engineer” rather than “LLM Engineer?”

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution21:08:09

👏:skin-tone-4: Welcome John Willis, here to present Dear CIO: Navigating the Shadows – GenAI’s Promise, Peril, and the Path Forward

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Paul Gaffney21:08:17

I guess it has seemed historically that “AI” was an umbrella concept that included machine learning, computer vision, and, now LLMs.

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Andrew Barefield, Liatrio21:08:37

Who is ready for 50:1 IC to Manager ratios?

Nick Eggleston (free radical)21:08:15

Welcome John Willis!! Always good to see you on stage!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair21:08:32

John Willis was in the room during that famous Allspaw/Hammond "10 deploys/day at Flickr" presentation at in 2009 — he mentioned, "today felt like THAT!" (What an interesting observation.)

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Robin Yeman21:08:35

“What John?”

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Robin Yeman21:08:32

Ops people are like Cicadas

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Brian Scott21:08:30

Agentic infrastructure has a nice ring to it

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Matthew Sibley (Liatrio)21:08:30

The LORMA Lorax?

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair21:08:39

For @stephen and me, the "P" in LAMP stack is Prolog.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair21:08:14

Or Brian Scott, it was PostScript. 😂

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Topo Pal21:08:15

CIO: block ChatGPT so that no one can break into my infra using ChatGPT

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain21:08:27

“Ai is just network, compute, and storage. The icing on that cake is looks good, but the inside is the same.”

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair21:08:59

It was wild to see people using ChatGPT Code Interpreter to get access to the underlying OS, probe the kubernetes cluster, etc. Sandbox definitely was a little leaky, in the early days. In fact, I think @shawnthe1 live streamed doing this right after some OpenAI launch.

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Adam Brunner - John Deere21:08:02

Make AI agents as easy as a lambda. I agree John, this is an infrastructure problem.

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Fernando Cornago21:08:38

Best talk in years @botchagalupe

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution21:08:09

Please say hello to André Martin, Founder, Shift Space, LLC, here to present Ready, Set, Lead: Maximizing the Space Between No Longer and Not Yet

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Tim Muttitt21:08:49

This talk reminds us all that people are at the heart of all technology

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain21:08:50

Journey before destination?

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)21:08:25

Life is the greatest classroom on earth.

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain21:08:10

this is what my kid says when they want to skip school. 😆

Tim Muttitt21:08:31

Never stop learning. The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.

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Robin Yeman21:08:17

We can be Masters of the Universe

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair21:08:34

"You know everything — be our teachers." "I still don't know how to quit emacs."

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)21:08:42

Become masters of inspiration

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George Proorocu21:08:53

"You have the opportunity to be our teachers, our mentors, our models.. "

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Adam Brunner - John Deere21:08:58

Tell me more about "craft circles"

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Christine Hudson21:08:03

There are so many "Masters of Craft" here at this conference. I'm so glad to be back this year.

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Tim Muttitt21:08:29

It is my first year at this conference - Glad I made it!

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Cliff Risley21:08:31

Me too. Awesome Conference!

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George Proorocu21:08:56

I was expecting AI to be higher on the list 😄

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)21:08:02

I want to keep the connection to this "scenius" after the conference ends, to keep growing by the experiencing of challenging each other.

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Adam Zimman, GP at RockTreeMountain21:08:23

Love a good interactive presentation. 📊

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)21:08:01

Inspiring call to growth by Dr Andre Martin... now, how to operationalize it...

Tim Muttitt21:08:25

"just do it" @nickeggleston

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Joel Boyles - PEOPLEIT.COM21:08:32

Gen AI has the potential to do profound damage if it's not done right.

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Ms Jennifer Pickard21:08:34

Great to have the opportunity for self reflection

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Sam Yeats21:08:43

Wow bottle that last paragraph!

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)21:08:44

News! All messages with 💬 reactions will now be automatically posted to to the #C07HM6V4P2A channel (thanks to @jeff.gallimore)

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Jason Cox - Disney21:08:42

Your calendar: Where you spend your time dictates what’s important for your company.

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)21:08:50

What is your decision tree for what you say "yes" or "no" to when letting time get booked on your calendar?

Tim Muttitt21:08:29

I've started living by this mantra "You are the CEO of your time. It is your currency; spend it wisely" - Tim Muttitt -- Michael Scott - Tim Muttitt

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André Martin22:08:19

Let’s keep developing ourselves in these arenas (while we teach the world about GenAI).

André Martin22:08:44

@brunneradamj The idea behind “craft circles” is to create a space to practice, play around, and get comfortable while we build stronger relationships and gain from each other’s journey into GenAI. Imagine having a session about how to use GenAI to do XX, invite people to the space and allow them to practice, play, share, freefall, fail, succeed, etc.

Adam Brunner - John Deere23:08:25

Ah, like a kata. I love it

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Luke Rettig - Target, Sr Director-Global Inventory Mangement22:08:56

I think we should have a breakout for fellow travelers that deal with high sev Prod incidents during ETLS 🥴

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David Faircloth - Wendy’s22:08:38

me this morning. :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

David Faircloth - Wendy’s22:08:38

now you get the sigh of relief that it's working and begin to deal with the fallout!

Luke Rettig - Target, Sr Director-Global Inventory Mangement22:08:53

No frosty’s at Wendy’s and high out of stocks at Target… sigh

David Faircloth - Wendy’s22:08:43

:rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Luke Rettig - Target, Sr Director-Global Inventory Mangement22:08:22

@david.faircloth and I are going to need a cocktail on GitHub and Liatro tonight

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Slackbot23:08:02

Reminder: The breakout sessions are starting in 5 minutes. Start navigating your way to whichever session you’re attending. https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F07H7N10D62/timer.png