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Devops Enterprise Summit Slack Archive

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2022-05-12

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#ask-the-speaker-track-3
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2022-05-12
Slackbot08:05:18

Reminder: Get yourself in front of your browser and into #ask-the-speaker-plenary for the opening remarks. We’re kicking off the final day of the DevOps Enterprise Summit in 15 minutes at 10am BST! https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F01D34MC2KS/image.png

Slackbot09:05:03

Reminder: Remember all those talks you attended the first two days of the Summit? Please submit your feedback for those! It’s so valuable for us and the speakers. And after all, feedback is a gift and sharing is caring! Enter your feedback for those talks here: https://members.itrevolution.com/live/schedule https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F03E48CJRF1/image.png

Slackbot09:05:27

Reminder: The final day is starting now – opening remarks and then plenary talks! Join the conversation in #ask-the-speaker-plenary.

Slackbot11:05:30

Reminder: The breakout sessions are starting in 5 minutes. Get in front of your browser and start navigating your way to whichever session you’re attending. https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F01D34MC2KS/image.png

Ann Perry - IT Revolution11:05:00

🔆 Here to present, DevOps For 24 x 7 SaaS and Disaster Recovery, Know What It Takes Before You Leap Into It, is @amitpras, Software Architect, IBM India and @ssriva, Distinguished Engineer and Master Inventor, IBM 🔆

Shikha Srivastava11:05:43

benefit of recorded session. You can be late by couple of secs for the session 🙂 Here now.

Ann Perry - IT Revolution12:05:00

🌟 Let's welcome @stephan.stapel, Head of Customer Solutions, Hermes Germany GmbH, here to present, Nobody is Left Behind 🌟

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Habib Rahman12:05:50

Wouldn't backing up the ETCD database provide you the state of the cluster? What other components did you backup using Velero? What are the benefits of backing up those ? Does it backup the application data as well?

Amitabh Prasad13:05:47

Hello @habibrahman.a when we use kubernetes as service we won't have access to etcd. and Yes we are backing application data too and that's where we are using volume snapshot. If application data is part of kube PVC/PV

Habib Rahman12:05:37

We have GitOps implemented and all the components (including the namespaces required) are defined in the manifest file. So backing up the etcd db was sufficient for us. Obviously application data was backed up by the application teams. Would like to understand the capability of Velero and benefits it can bring

Amitabh Prasad13:05:01

As I mentioned if you have access to ETCD you will end up backing up everything. since you already have GitOps implemented, isn't in that case you don't need to back up entire ETCD but rather only transactiona kube objects created while application was running. Velero help us back up only subset of kube objects based on labels and make sure to clean those up and ready to apply. • 2nd benefits you get is to take backup of volumes either via restic or by snapshot (if storage class supports that)

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Amitabh Prasad13:05:15

Hope I am able to answer your question

Sascha Schärich (DevOps Evangelist at Deutsche Telekom IT)12:05:05

Hi Stephan! Nice to see you here! We also struggle with the decision of who to help first, the ones that know they need help and are begging for it, or the ones that have no idea (yet) that they need help at all…

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Stephan Stapel12:05:04

That's a good question and probably there is no right answer. It might also be worthwhile to consider the impact of the particular team. If there are many dependencies to others, it might be good to start there because the postive impact might be higher

Christian Knuth12:05:36

@stephan.stapel: Shouldn’t pattern #3 used carefully only? Others write ‘your’ software and you need to maintain it later? And I guess it requires a lot of trust between team.

Stephan Stapel12:05:51

That is definitely true. We are also very cautious with this pattern. What surprises me as a leader of those teams is that this works very smoothly mosts of the time. Both teams agree on a way of working. Imho, pull requests, are a great technical detail to foster a appreciating collaboration/ culture.

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Billy Hudson - ScholarPack - DevOps Engineer12:05:23

This is excellent advice for organisations that have to run both a monolith and a number of modern micro-services.

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Christian Knuth12:05:36

Very interesting presentation! Liked it very much - addressing an important transformation topic: “don’t let the ‘legacy teams’ behind!

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Christian Warnholz12:05:11

Great talk, thank you!

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Slackbot13:05:01

Reminder: The breakout sessions are starting again in 5 minutes. Get in front of your browser and start navigating your way to whichever session you’re attending. https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F01D34MC2KS/image.png

Ann Perry - IT Revolution13:05:00

🌟 Let's welcome @dvidyara, Site Reliability Engineer at Cisco, here to present ISTIO with BookInfo Application 🌟

Ann Perry - IT Revolution14:05:06

Thank you, @dvidyara for a great presentation!

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)14:05:28

we’re using it to good benefit

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution14:05:00

⚡ Please welcome, @rob947, Software Consultant and Author, here to present: If Development is a Game, How Do I Win? ⚡

Rob Moffat14:05:12

Hi Everyone!

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Alex Broderick-Forster, IT Revolution, Event Staff14:05:48

winner of the best talk title award: If Development is a Game, How Do I Win?

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Rob Moffat14:05:08

thanks! Glad to have got one thing right

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Rob Moffat14:05:08

this is a talk I’ve given a few times to straight-up devs - but I think it might be even more relevant to DevOps..?

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:29

Hi, @rob947 — your submission definitely caught our attention! We're excited that you could present!!!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:02

(The notion of devs talking more routinely talking about all sorts of risk is a super concept!)

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:20

Totally, there's more risks than just functional or operational risk! :)

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:52

I LOVE TV TROPES! (I used it extensively to help write Unicorn Project)

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)14:05:55

a big obstacle i see in many organizations is an “unhealthy” relationship with risk.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:51

My fave way to describe Unicorn Project to myself during writing process: A Team, Redshirts, Hogans Heroes, and the movie Brazil.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:24

Tropes: IIRC: Exiled to Antarctica, All Hope Is Lost.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:43

Dependency Risk — on coupling.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:21

Communication risk: addressed thru tutorials

Rob Moffat14:05:53

I don’t get to this in the presentation today, but Dependency Risk is one risk that keeps growing, due to things like the explosion of open-source libraries, and things like Log4Shell

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:19

@jeff.gallimore What I love about this is that giving things names is great — like naming cognitive biases help us be aware of them, and overcoming/mitigating them.

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Rob Moffat14:05:21

new libraries, languages, micro-services etc.

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:50

There was great conversation yesterday of someone who added multiple versions of multiple XML parsers to program, and never removed them. Because, why not? 😆

Rob Moffat14:05:04

or even, you might somehow break it if you do!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:33

What case studies would you put forth as the best example of people using your philosophies/tools successfully? @rob947

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:38

As someone who trained as internal auditor, I totally love the idea of someone who thinks thru important lenses of risk, on domains such as financial reporting, compliance, operational. So I love the thesis: just wondering who's gravitated towards this, how they've used it, etc.

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:05

"Chess game: all inputs are on the board"

Rob Moffat14:05:42

well, I don’t know if I can lay claim to this being my philosophy. This is applying risk management to software development. But, to answer your question - a lot of the development teams I’ve been on have gravitated to something like this, talking about risks rather than story points, say.

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Rob Moffat14:05:54

More generally (and famously) I would argue that SpaceX is building their rockets with risk management top-of-mind: they’re happy to lose the odd rocket, they’ve managed the risks on that. Each launch is a bet, where they’ve minimised the downside and hoped to learn something

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:46

!! Some wheels were biased?

Philip Day14:05:21

The original Edward Thorp!

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Rob Moffat14:05:21

yep. made out of wood 😀. not anymore, they’re all computerized so don’t try this now

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:06

I love the story that gaming machines in casino odds are at aggregate level, not machine level. (Best odds can be concentrated on a game in corner, as long as aggregate is "fair")

Rob Moffat14:05:42

I didn’t know that, but almost certainly that makes sense

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:16

Meta-game: goal is to win! (Vs. completing features, not getting hacked, not having users think a 5 yo wrote it (haha!!))

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:48

(Auth0 outage story: dependency risk... albeit, a very good choice for most!)

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:20

"Change in terms of use" (!!!)

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:31

"You want to place bets where there's maximal payoff" "Use oauth2 will increase dependency risk, but save person-months of effort"

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:25

Bets -> underscores need for options: w/no options, you can't bet. Sometimes best thing you can do it buy options, to buy the right to make decisions/bets again.

Rob Moffat14:05:35

I can see you're into this!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:39

(Dr. @steve773 and I are presenting on this at end of the day!)

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Rob Moffat14:05:12

Cool I'll pop along

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:10

Totally. This is great stuff!

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:45

And in addition to manage down risks, make better bets to win (and hedge risks that you take on when you do the work)

Rob Moffat14:05:09

Yes, there's usually good ways in limiting your downsides

Steve Pereira - Visible Value Stream Consulting14:05:11

@rob947 is there any tooling that facilitates risk assignment and betting?

Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:13

Thank you @rob947 !!!

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Gene Kim, ITREV, Program Chair14:05:18

When gambling to win, it helps to know the rules of the game, the odds, and the risks they need to hedge against.

Rob Moffat14:05:30

I'm not really aware of any are you?

Philip Day14:05:06

Loved the talk thanks @rob947! Have been trying to argue along these lines in work It's more obvious for data scientists - most ideas they start exploring won't make it to production, so every day they gamble with their own time, losing most bets but winning in the aggregate -> apply similar thinking to other people's time & $ spend in the firm

Rob Moffat14:05:50

@philipday good point

Rob Moffat14:05:30

Thanks for watching everybody!

Slackbot16:05:18

Reminder: The final plenary sessions are starting in 5 minutes. Start making your way back to your browser and join us in #ask-the-speaker-plenary to interact live with the speakers and other attendees. https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F01D34MC2KS/image.png

Slackbot17:05:19

Reminder: Please submit your feedback for the talks you attended. It’s so valuable for us and the speakers. And after all, feedback is a gift and sharing is caring! Enter your feedback for those talks here: https://members.itrevolution.com/live/schedule https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/files/UATE4LJ94/F03E48CJRF1/image.png