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2020-06-25
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Where is the sticker with "I have mild depression over how to implement learnings 😂 "
Where is the sticker with "I have mild depression over how to implement learnings 😂 "
I'm just used to it .... The gap between individual understanding and systemic change is pretty big
No need for a sticker if we all feel the same - commonality of suffering and that:)
@philipp.boeschen650 it's hiding under the sticker that says Dysthymic DevOps 😉
The sticker for "I've been teaching more trivial things for ten years in several organizations and now they'd have to be progressed so much further to grasp any of this"? 😄
Whoa @rasmus.hald 3500 in tech
Whoa @rasmus.hald 3500 in tech
Doing physical containers with virtual containers - that's a slogan right here
Doing physical containers with virtual containers - that's a slogan right here
“consider how many trucks a banana must be on, throughout its entire journey thru the supply chain” Huh! From grower to market, when they’re literally on different corners of the planet!
It always feels like logistics and supply chains is just IT infrastructure on hardmode ...
(PS: I had no idea that bananas has the same PLC code for banana everywhere on the planet: 4011. An example that the world strives towards order: https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2074352/ever-wondered-why-the-stickers-on-fruit-are-covered-in-numbers-theyre-actually-very-important/)
BiModal was a recommendation to treat part of your IT assets as waterfall/slow and other parts as fast. It’s generally seen as a poor approach. @damon
I would qualify it as having two streams running at different paces, one for your legacy apps and in parallel another one for your new projects, using different ways of working.
This is a decent intro article to the concept: https://www.bmc.com/blogs/bimodal-it/
This is about acceptance, and it took a shift in the leadership of our Technology org, to achieve this
Faster than many banks
Faster than many banks
Depends on your definition of “delivery”
just change the scope and the budget of the project directly before the deadline, that's how you deliver 100% projects in scope and budget 😂
The sad truth is, I've seen this been done before ... And it got them through all reporting requirements of the PMO....
https://blogs.gartner.com/bill-swanton/2017/06/05/product-centric-works-for-bimodal/
I'm just imagining the "X" for the disruption of working from home if we put on the same 2 years scale.
Delightful: at Maersk, saw the benefit of working like a startup, to bring new capabilities to market!
Great slide on the acceptance of DevOps, can be used to trigger discussions in an organization where you REALLY stand
https://continuousdelivery.com/2016/04/the-flaw-at-the-heart-of-bimodal-it/
https://continuousdelivery.com/2016/04/the-flaw-at-the-heart-of-bimodal-it/
Martin Fowler called it bi-polar IT. Not very politically correct or inclusive but his article is good. https://martinfowler.com/bliki/BimodalIT.html
@rasmus.hald two days generating sticky notes. that seems like a lot of sticky notes.
@rasmus.hald two days generating sticky notes. that seems like a lot of sticky notes.
What kind of preparation did you do prior to the retrospective so that people would feel ready and able to contribute @rasmus.hald?
What kind of preparation did you do prior to the retrospective so that people would feel ready and able to contribute @rasmus.hald?
Good question! As this was a very opinionated topic, we had to have a hard focus on what was the aboslute minimal central IT involvement in DevOps based deliveries, and that helped us identif who needed to be part of the conversations
since then we broaden it out, but here a couple of years later, we are not done and most likely will never be done 🙂
And for those people who were selected for the initial conversation, did you have any concerns that people might not speak up and share their concerns? And if so, how did you address those concerns, to make it more likely people would be open to sharing?
I ask because I often see people shy away from sharing their concerns, especially in the first retrospective for a given group.
“we’re not a startup. 80K employees, largest container logistics company in the world” “aligned autonomy; every dev team wants autonomy, wants to set direction of their own products”
@jeff.gallimore that one is “less than most banks”😂
@jeff.gallimore that one is “less than most banks”😂
…it takes 2 days to get approvals to get the key to the storage cabinet where the Post-It notes are…
surely they just use a SAFE, to store their post-it notes? Sorry couldn't resist.. its hot in London.. 😜
https://paulhammant.com/2017/07/09/alignment-and-autonomy-and-quorums/
"Pissed because not being considered" - gold
@rohrersm You'd be surprised on how many orgs are still at the basic stage of digital transformation and need bimodal to kickstart it. No panacea, but a good way to start.
@rohrersm You'd be surprised on how many orgs are still at the basic stage of digital transformation and need bimodal to kickstart it. No panacea, but a good way to start.
Like SAFe, it’s an interesting waypoint
But only a waypoint
Often depends on motivations, both can be used as enablers or derailing strategies by “The Empire”
heard an IT boss literally saying “we’ll say we are bimodel and give them a sandbox they can play in. That will shut them up while we do the real work”
The org still exists, I’m not there but I believe they have a massive shadow IT “problem”.
We need a “Postits Stories” channel
“hospice mode applications.” OMG. “keep it alive until we an either… umm… move it to a SaaS… or host it in a different way.” 😆😆😆😆
“hospice mode applications.” OMG. “keep it alive until we an either… umm… move it to a SaaS… or host it in a different way.” 😆😆😆😆
Or take it to the parking lot with a sledgehammer...
a new offering from your team, Jason: hospice for your applications to be lovingly taken care of until… well, you know…
ohhhhh l love this! What about hospice departments? Such as HR:face_with_hand_over_mouth:
operations support being separate looks a bit like googles SRE stuff 🙂
operations support being separate looks a bit like googles SRE stuff 🙂
We are experimenting with this thinking and will kick off the SRE for UDM CD this year…. Going to be an interesting learning
Yeah I've been doing a lot of thinking around this lately, it's such an interesting field and problem, since if you can take away the pressure of actually operating it helps the development teams environment to be more chilled but at the same time they move out of touch with their delivery
Dave Farley might think that Continuous Delivery should be the same as the DevOps line 😀
Great presentation by @rasmus.hald - showing how to integrate operations and development in the practice in a large enterprise. Love to see taking the best from both worlds - aka EnterpriseDevOps
@rasmus.hald Do services graduate to needing an SLA too? I believe they should but seems to be a challenge to postpone in many places.
@rasmus.hald Do services graduate to needing an SLA too? I believe they should but seems to be a challenge to postpone in many places.
So far we have dodge any transitions to Classic Delivery and I am working on solidifying it in the next update to the model… We should not be spending effort on putting any software in hospice mode
I don't think "graduating to hospice" is a feasible thing. So, I take it that the UDM is work in progress and needs maturing to an equal level as classic in terms of SLA requirements and such. Correct?
“as an enterprise, we must figure out how to leverage our strengths, otherwise we will be dominated in the market by our startups competitors.”
@rasmus.hald - do you still have to do in the UDM DevOps case all of the things you did in the UDM Classic view? Is this 'streamlining' mainly a case of tearing down boundaries between siloes?
@rasmus.hald - do you still have to do in the UDM DevOps case all of the things you did in the UDM Classic view? Is this 'streamlining' mainly a case of tearing down boundaries between siloes?
Nope, in UDM devops your path to going live is (or at least should be) full speed without handovers
Fascinating take on ITIL: “service desk to handle huge # of users, where feedback doesn’t need to get back to engineering, that’s a valuable capability”
hundreds… but they primarily look after classic services in most cases For IaC, DevTools and Cloud Management, the focus is on Dev Productivity and entertains about 50 engineers
Fully agree with your diverse view on what you need; we often use the phrase "DevOps in an industrial environment needs (in most cases) more than a DevOps team"
(^^thinking about a comment in Mark Schwarz' talk yesterday - Devops is a still a bureaucracy, but one that sees to be an enabling bureaucracy)
@rasmus.hald The enterprise capabilities you mention are often undervalued by startups or corporate divisions that act like startups. Use them!!
@rasmus.hald The enterprise capabilities you mention are often undervalued by startups or corporate divisions that act like startups. Use them!!
Yes, I'm watching with some colleagues, great stuff! We were wondering what size works for you to get a decent coverage of each domain. And to get an idea of the scale at Maersk, so we could make a comparison to our situtation
Oh I've done and seen that powerpoint multiple times ...
“at Maersk, we had a really nice PowerPoint slide, describing how we DevOps. [laughs]. All the directors and senior directors said ‘yes’, but it was just a PowerPoint slide. We had to figure out how to operationalize it.” 😆
Ah! Took me a little while. The wire to ground is just going into a bag of dirt. Haha
@rasmus.hald For the Cloud management team, what's balance between supporting feature teams & platform evolution ?
@rasmus.hald For the Cloud management team, what's balance between supporting feature teams & platform evolution ?
The engineers in these teams are empowered to balance this… We often look at repeating waste … So tasks that happens again and again
@rasmus.hald: When teams are using VSM : for a new project or anytime in the construction process ?
@rasmus.hald: When teams are using VSM : for a new project or anytime in the construction process ?
Yes! Macro-level. Single-system thinking. Start with the parents and children, not the great-grandchildren.
@rasmus.hald what are your current fastest delivery cycle times for the UDM DevOps variant and for what type of products?
@rasmus.hald what are your current fastest delivery cycle times for the UDM DevOps variant and for what type of products?
IMO it still takes too long, but we are learning like crazy. We can do weeks if engineers knows what to do, but the reality is that it still takes months
talk to stakeholders in a level they are familiar with, that's a good learning here I think
VSM’s are great! The more we do it the better we become at it, I do recommend to revisit a VSM each every x months. Just to learn and find new improvements in the organizatoin
VSM’s are great! The more we do it the better we become at it, I do recommend to revisit a VSM each every x months. Just to learn and find new improvements in the organizatoin
It´s one of the most valuable tool we have…. It´s also really good for removing silo thinking and driving engagement
Beacons ~= fitness functions ; at least a subset - evolutionary architecture is everywhere
Beacons! “like a lighthouse which guides the vessel through the sea.” (I love all the wonderful ways people use the existing enterprise heritage to create metaphors that are understood by all)
Beacons! “like a lighthouse which guides the vessel through the sea.” (I love all the wonderful ways people use the existing enterprise heritage to create metaphors that are understood by all)
Love the “Assurance Framework”! I’ll be talking more about devops and continuous assurance this afternoon. So cool to see these ideas popping up independently across the community here. I really think there’s a trend here!
@rasmus.hald I love the idea of Beacons and self service!! We do very similar...
“…one beacon shows that this application is cost aware…“. 😆😆😆. I’m sure there’s a story behind that. 😆
“…one beacon shows that this application is cost aware…“. 😆😆😆. I’m sure there’s a story behind that. 😆
@rasmus.hald We also have beacons in Git for terraform and chef standards.
Excellent session, in my top 5 of the summit!! Will be using a lot of what you have talked about.
Excellent session, in my top 5 of the summit!! Will be using a lot of what you have talked about.
They are visual indicators of how well guardrails are followed in individual product teams. They are targeted Product Owners that should use them to drive risk down
Thanks... is there a 'shift left' thing, or parallelisation going on here? Are they evaluated continually as delivery work progresses?
Yes, we use Value Stream Mapping to improve the process and Admiral helps us remove waste (automation) Shift left= Yes 🙂
@rasmus.hald Can you explain how did you create this beacon portal ? How much is automated behind that ?
@rasmus.hald Can you explain how did you create this beacon portal ? How much is automated behind that ?
We have the pleasure of being 100% cloud focussed, and therefore we can query the cloud platform for a lot of metrics. Today the beacons are 100% automated, but our challenge is that we are seeing an extreme interest in building more beacons, and also for stuff that we can´t automate… Not sure how we fix that yet, but we have designed a back-end where we can do manual checks
So every project or product are hosted in the cloud ? If yes how do you allow classic project to get some beacons ?
Not yet, but we are seeing more and more ask to do so….. We are seeing this as an opportunity to start maturing the Classic delivery process. For now this is in our future
Yes, we have it as part of our Admiral platform and the beacons entertain about 1 FTE but split out over more folks… Going forward we are pushing the development of the beacons to the capability owners So the owner of DevTools will develop her own beacon if relevant But it super simple if you are using cloud services
We have considered open sourcing the Admiral Platform (and even been looking for something similar we could use and contribute to) and we still see it in our future
Regarding team size, we currently run two feature teams (10 people in all) and they cover the Admiral platform, UDM beacons, IaC (terraform), cost management and Identity services
“everyone wants a Beacon! everyone who wants to add value to the dev process wants a beacon!” (That’s awesome)
Why isn’t @rasmus.hald the new CIO? :thinking_face:
@rasmus.hald great presentation - super clear and well put together! Thank you 🙂
@rasmus.hald great presentation - super clear and well put together! Thank you 🙂
I really love this stories, but all of those DevOps transition that worked sound like you need to build most of it by yourself - Which requires some kind of scale that it is worth. Or am I missing something? Thanks for the great talk. @rasmus.hald
I really love this stories, but all of those DevOps transition that worked sound like you need to build most of it by yourself - Which requires some kind of scale that it is worth. Or am I missing something? Thanks for the great talk. @rasmus.hald
Your not wrong. As an enterprise, we had a culture, process and thinking that were VERY functional and siloed… DevOps transitions in our case is about changing all of this with DevOps and LEAN thinking
@rasmus.hald Great presentation. It helped to clear few things on how to drive DevOps adoption while still catering to Applications that needs to be developed and supported in a traditional ITIL way
Good morning, afternoon, evening global DevOps Enterprise Community! From US West Coast to New Zealand (anyone in Hawaii or the South Pacific Islands?)
@rasmus.hald Does a new CIO always have to create a new operating model? Could there be one that is happy with making small impactful changes?
@rasmus.hald Does a new CIO always have to create a new operating model? Could there be one that is happy with making small impactful changes?
@rasmus.hald Great talk, I really like the idea of having three different delivery models
http://s3.amazonaws.com/akamai.netstorage/anon.nasa-global/CAIB/CAIB_lowres_full.pdf
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/26/us/dogged-engineer-s-effort-to-assess-shuttle-damage.html
Oh yes!! @jonathansmart1 Leadership Behavior!! So vital!!
For those who saw the Virgin Atlantic talk on Tuesday, you may recognise the photo top left 😉
Love that we need plaques “the work is fundamentally unknowable”
“The work is fundamentally unknowable”. This was part of the discussion during @david627’s talk yesterday, too.
“100 years ago, in Detroit Ford factory, over 50 languages were spoken; it didn’t matter, because people didn’t need to talk to each other” <--- one of my fave quotes in his book.
"opposite" of turbulence. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Hyc3MRKno
Expanding from headwind and tailwind a bit. Something every triathlete will learn about when getting diminishing returns in the wind tunnel on their bikes 😄
Leading by example is so powerful it's funny that people think they can mandate things they don't do themselves 😂
“Do as I say, not as I do” < so often when people say they want cultural change what they mean is they want other people to behave differently.
@tommy I mentioned to @jonathansmart1 how his entymology is part of the Clojure tradition, too!
This brings up Simon Sinek again in my mind - many overlapping points :thinking_face:
"command, commit, order" - no no no, be in the same position as everyone else "listens, informs" - love it @jonathansmart1
Yes @akis.sklavounakis but crystal clarity with simple and plain language doesn’t sell fancy decks
Very good presentation @jonathansmart1 with commander vs leader. Will you describe manger as well?
That's powerful. Many times companies want to be Agile and implement DevOps for the sake of the wave, not for their objectives.
@jonathansmart1 Turns out that DevOps starts with Transformational Leadership. See @nicolefv work in Accelerate and https://www.devops-research.com/research.html
@jonathansmart1 Turns out that DevOps starts with Transformational Leadership. See @nicolefv work in Accelerate and https://www.devops-research.com/research.html
Thanks @scott.prugh. In chapter 4 of Sooner Safer Happier (of which this was a talk version of the chapter), I reference Transformational Leadership, Servant Leadership, Intent Based Leadership (David Marquet) and the SODR 2017 correlation to performance 👍
A leader doesn't need hierarchy to execute stuff with his followers, a commander needs it to get anything done ...
@jonathansmart1 - such a powerful talk (again!) - laughing and crying in the same breaths!!
that was a fantastic article @jonathansmart1 shared with a few CEOs... to great effect.. thank you!
@genek101 have you ever gotten Keith Ferrazzi to talk at DOES? Leading Without Authority is a really good book and lines up with transformational leadership at all levels
@genek101 have you ever gotten Keith Ferrazzi to talk at DOES? Leading Without Authority is a really good book and lines up with transformational leadership at all levels
@scott.prugh how every diagram starts with “culture of psychological safety” in Accelerate did more for devs lives than the 5-6 books and tens of studies before it @nicolefv is TEH awesome
the beatings will stop once moral improves
This is so on point - commanders saying 'I want change, but I don't want to change'
This is so on point - commanders saying 'I want change, but I don't want to change'
In my experience this isn’t limited to commanders, it is common across people of all levels & titles.
Amen, "the level of consciousness sof an organization cannot exceed thte level of consciousness of its leader."...
Amen, "the level of consciousness sof an organization cannot exceed thte level of consciousness of its leader."...
I'd say that the de facto leader. The puppet on top can be unconscious but that is not leading.
Before antipatterns,,,I’ve found this at a couple of talks or articles .... Lean, Agile, DevOps exhibited as goals and not as “means to Better, Sooner, Safer, Happier “... this is a quite precise statement.
"You're DevOps so go on and prove to me it'll work!" (with zero support, trust or budget and dev/ops/other silos very much intact!)
"You're DevOps so go on and prove to me it'll work!" (with zero support, trust or budget and dev/ops/other silos very much intact!)
This is also an important take on commander behaviour. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004IK899W/
Anti-pattern 3 - Deterministic Mindset - aka where's my DevOps roadmap?!
@jonathansmart1 i’m a big fan of your “think big, start big, learn slow” versus “think big, start small, learn fast” framing
Cost & schedule at the expense of safety.... well, in previous projects I’ve experienced this pressure perhaps not in safety, but affecting Quality.
Cost & schedule at the expense of safety.... well, in previous projects I’ve experienced this pressure perhaps not in safety, but affecting Quality.
Hm. I think quality is on the DMZ before losing safety.
So if you have some quality, you can take some adversity by compromising.
When every bug is an immediate outage, "off with the head" is imminent
Our one weapon is fear and surprise! Our two weapons are fear and surprise and a devotion to Agile!
Our one weapon is fear and surprise! Our two weapons are fear and surprise and a devotion to Agile!
I believe the cause for deterministic mindset and relying on fear and surprise often is fear itself
I’m wondering, who ever noticed doing some of the antipatterns in their carreer? I’m guilty as charge! Only by realizing I was guilty I was able to learn and improve myself!
I loved the @james839 confession in the Swiss Re presentation that he might have brought the Scrumdamentalist mindset, because of his fear that the larger org would screw up their nascent initiative.
It’s the 1 question I always ask in every 1-to-1
The difference between leaders and managers: If you lead men to their death, you might get a medal. If you manage people to their death you (should) go to jail. You lead people, you manage spreadsheets. Nothing wrong with managing, but it hasn't anything to do with people.
Just as leaders read the Projects they NEED to read Brene Brown for “balls empowerment”
Any examples of servant leaders who got promoted because of their servant leadership?
Any examples of servant leaders who got promoted because of their servant leadership?
I’ll get back to you on this one — this deserves some good answers! cc @jonathansmart1
cc @jeff.gallimore @steve773 At the core of the Toyota Production System is enabling problem solving at all levels… which is a little different than classic definition of servant leadership…
@akis.sklavounakis @genek101 In terms of the leadership model, let me suggest the examples in chapter 9. Quite a bit of what you’re asking about. Steve
@akis.sklavounakis @genek101 A few more things to suggest. “Leaders” by Stan McCrystal https://mitocr.cmail19.com/t/t-l-ptlyudd-furirltuj-h/ “Leadership and Seeking Bad News” https://mitocr.cmail19.com/t/t-l-ptlyudd-furirltuj-h/ An appreciation of the life of Alcoa CEO and Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill https://mitocr.cmail19.com/t/t-l-ptlyudd-furirltuj-h/
https://rework.withgoogle.com/print/guides/5721312655835136/
Is difficult, right? The incentives are misaligned.
You can if you think of it in the group it belongs in - the team not the org
It is possible, if you build trust and the contractual model is not too restrictive. A few teams and I managed it ... in 15 years, :)
I have told my customer: "As a consultant, I have to be fired twice to be unemployed. I can be twice as honest."
We are really setting ourselves up for failure thinking of PS at the level of culture - it’s a distributed bubble level ever changing lever
when it comes to PS the organisation is as real of a thing as Santa
For me decoupling the vendor teams from the vendor hierarchy and protecting them internally in my org helped to create a collaborative, trusting environment ... still this took around 6-8 months. Not possible for short engagements.
Companies with a lot of contractors mixed into the teams, they will be more likely to provide safety over company boundaries.
The Fearless Organization - on our new leadership book club list. Excellent case studies. ✔️
The Fearless Organization - on our new leadership book club list. Excellent case studies. ✔️
Love the way how Google open-sourced their learnings on both technical/organisational and cultural topics. Kudo's to Google for that
In my neck of the woods, we refer to that as the 3 'S's: shoot, shovel, shut-up
In my neck of the woods, we refer to that as the 3 'S's: shoot, shovel, shut-up
you can validate a hypothesis or invalidate a hypothesis — both are learnings and valuable.
that diagram and @nicolefv’s diagrams in Accelerate change lives. When we’ll have an exact number to connect $ or at least Agile goodness to it to prove the exact value of PS to high performance we can reduce what l call “the human debt”
Please, don’t tell your direct reports that you will be their “Servant Leader”.
Please, don’t tell your direct reports that you will be their “Servant Leader”.
Kent Beck says they stopped using the word “fail” and replaced it with “learn”. Safe to fail experiments ❌-> safe to learn experiments
Real "aha" moment over the last few days just how much of the stress and overwork is coming from fear. I dont think i ever would've said there was fear at my workplace before this, but now that I see it, its everywhere. I've been trying to address the symptoms not root cause.
I cannot wait to read your book @jonathansmart1. Thank you IT Rev for early access!
I cannot wait to read your book @jonathansmart1. Thank you IT Rev for early access!
@pgibbs1587 A galley copy is avaiable for download here: https://doesvirtual.com/itrevolution
The book publish date is October. Available for pre-order now on Amazon
Yes, it is about exhibiting behavior, not about the words. That is what I am saying.
Mintzberg is excellent on this https://mintzberg.org/books/managers-not-mbas
He redraws the org chart with managers to the left rather than on top
So much of this talk boils down to a management mindset based on the era of slavery (which I think we've all been learning more about in the past few weeks) - the idea that 'masters' own people
After this talk, @jonathansmart1’s galley (thanks ITRev booth) goes to the top of my 'to read' list...
I lOVE that: supporting lines instead of reporting lines. And agree Coaching Kata is really helpful.
I lOVE that: supporting lines instead of reporting lines. And agree Coaching Kata is really helpful.
@jon Love Toyota Kata!! Improving daily work is more important than the work!!
https://mintzberg.org/books/managers-not-mbas is excellent on this - org chart left to right rather than top to bottom just to get the visual effect
Awesomeness as expected @jonathansmart1 :star-struck:🥳😍
I worked in an organization that gave a 'goose of shame' to people or teams that broke things.
@rohrersm Do you mean to re-seat 'management' to the same floor as the minions? Move them out of the top floor? Who would be crazy enough to suggest that?
@rohrersm Do you mean to re-seat 'management' to the same floor as the minions? Move them out of the top floor? Who would be crazy enough to suggest that?
Heh. For Minzberg it’s just when drawing the org chart.
But physically moving might be nice too.
"maintain optionality as long as possible" - painful contrast the the current annual planning that I'm wrestling through
Thank you, @jonathansmart1! Have learned so much from you already this week.
To amplify @jonathansmart1’s request for help: I’d love great examples of these principles being applied at senior business leadership level, maybe even independent of technology leadership — would make for a great future DevOps Enterprise talk! Thank you @jonathansmart1!!!
To amplify @jonathansmart1’s request for help: I’d love great examples of these principles being applied at senior business leadership level, maybe even independent of technology leadership — would make for a great future DevOps Enterprise talk! Thank you @jonathansmart1!!!
👋👋👋👋👋 great talk as always @jonathansmart1 !! now to bring the tone down... eh @tim @abraxas.software 🤪
Best Keynote morning of the summit.......Thanks for so much inspiration!!!
Excellent use of "sources" to promote ideas @jonathansmart1!! Loved it... Great start to the day.
@genek101 tens of those - both wins and the opposite - only a handful fit in my book so you’re welcome to the rest if we protect the innocent :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
@genek101 tens of those - both wins and the opposite - only a handful fit in my book so you’re welcome to the rest if we protect the innocent :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
pre-ordered! @jonathansmart1 - do we get to have WIP releases of "sooner safer happier"? (batch size of ONE) 😄
pre-ordered! @jonathansmart1 - do we get to have WIP releases of "sooner safer happier"? (batch size of ONE) 😄
Didn’t have enough time in this talk, but every time I have sorted out enterprise IT delivery to dropping code out at will/hourly, the business struggles to keep up. From being the bottleneck, IT is now a blank sheet of paper and the business finds it hard to fill it. Heard this a few times from others at forums now too…
Didn’t have enough time in this talk, but every time I have sorted out enterprise IT delivery to dropping code out at will/hourly, the business struggles to keep up. From being the bottleneck, IT is now a blank sheet of paper and the business finds it hard to fill it. Heard this a few times from others at forums now too…
See https://youtu.be/R-fol1vkPlM for more on that
Fuzzy front end challenges
@tom.ayerst Hmm. Maybe we need some criteria for what it takes to be a good requirement. :thinking_face:
My take is that this is a symptom of project thinking -with “traditional IT” deliverables are always “tomorrow, tomorrow, always a day away” so our internal customers haven’t engaged in the incremental changes they could make to the offer, aren’t thinking innovation, rather more status quo, just don’t yet understand the art of the possible. My takeaway - I need to grow Product skills alongside the DevOps transformation to provide maximum value. Need to get Innovation training going alongside…
DevOps = end-to-end, not just tech
ProdMgmtDevSecOps etc.
My guess is @john.cutler will have more to say on that this afternoon
☝️is one of my fave diagrams. Our business likes this a lot to show us what’s possible over the long term.
Appreciate that @tom.ayerst. See ... now with 3hrs until my Q&A I am getting pulled in. I should sleep, and then be fresh for my "talk"
Agreed, great talk @jonathansmart1 many thanks. Do some talks (like this) go up on youtube later so I can share with some of my colleagues on a leadership development scheme?
Agreed, great talk @jonathansmart1 many thanks. Do some talks (like this) go up on youtube later so I can share with some of my colleagues on a leadership development scheme?
They will at a later date (cc: @genek101) The slides are downloadable from Dropbox and GitHub now
Yes — we’ll have something to announce in the next couple of weeks. All our efforts were focused on the conference. 🙂 Everything else marked for “later”. 🙂
Coats is such an amazing story. Born in late 1700s, was once the second largest company in the world!
It is true in my experience also, the product/business side sometimes struggles to keep up
fun fact, we have one app with over 1.8 million lines of code in it.. 17 years old.. monolith / pre history...
fun fact, we have one app with over 1.8 million lines of code in it.. 17 years old.. monolith / pre history...
I once worked at a startup where 2-3 Java Developers managed to build a Java app with around 1 million lines of code in a surprisingly short amount of time ... it had to be rewritten rather soon. :)
@jonathansmart1 you had the best presentation in my opinion. Thank you! Can't wait to have your book in my hands.
The product team had to create these capabilities inside their organization, because those skills didn’t exist anywhere else in the org.
I wish. This could be the a cure for MVPitis
It's got to be loved to get out the door, so you may as well accept that scope...
https://blogs.harvard.edu/lamont/2013/09/16/mdp-minimum-delightful-product/
☝️☝️☝️ has been around for a while :)
Same, @paul, same
http://thisisservicedesignthinking.com has a lot to say about that
@tim ^^ What was the most interesting argument that digital products weren’t indeed a real product?
At least manufacturing orgs get products, try explaining it to banks, government, etc...
MLP is a cure for MVPitis, maybe?
From my perspective the team Paul and Tim put together was one of the best group of engineers I've ever worked with (not just saying that because I was on it 😉)
Great to hear intentional hiring to create a gender balance on your team.
Great to hear intentional hiring to create a gender balance on your team.
it was fantastic, we ran a series of hack offs with local unis and had an massive response...
It's something that goes through every part of the hiring and working processes. From how you word jb adverts, interview techniques and daily working practices otherwise its all for nothing. Ultimately worth it and something I will always keep doing. Well done.
thanks Matt, ultimately it drives a more productive team. I was fortunate enough to work with Rachel Higham who is the true pioneer in this space, well worth checking out some of Rachels talks if you get the chance https://www.siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/bt-rachel-higham-cloud-stem-5g
I loved the @victoria_mayo quote from Swiss Re presentation: “seeing an order get created online was amazing; finally understood how it was different than printing out a policy, and having one of our staff sign it.” ❤️ 😆
We did talk about it briefly, actually! I know and love Clojure, but from a maintainabilty/upskilling point of view for the SRE team Kotlin was a better fit
I was on the team that introduced Clojure at the BBC, it was a great fit for us as we did data streaming/transformation for programme data
The contrast between leadership styles in your talk @jonathansmart1 remind me of a Safety I (command, control, compliance) and Safety II (guidance, facilitation). I have been wondering for some time what conditions make it more likely for majority of organisations to gravitate towards command, control and compliance (or to phrase it differently what makes it more often to emerge).
The contrast between leadership styles in your talk @jonathansmart1 remind me of a Safety I (command, control, compliance) and Safety II (guidance, facilitation). I have been wondering for some time what conditions make it more likely for majority of organisations to gravitate towards command, control and compliance (or to phrase it differently what makes it more often to emerge).
IIRC this is in Sooner Safer Happier Chapter 6
Yes. This talk is a talk version of Chapter 4 and Safety is Chapter 6
"what conditions make it more likely", in my experience it's the tone from the top
I've been wondering beyond that. What makes those people at the top to behave in a commanding way. Or what makes commanders raise to the top more often where in VUCA world enablement, facilitation and distributed decision-making is more effective
In my experience, it's a belief thing. A People Belief. That people can be trusted or that people need to be commanded. An an Emergent Belief. That a Gantt Chart with milestones is needed to hold people's feet to the fire
https://www.adventureswithagile.com/2017/03/25/what-is-the-agile-mindset/
I've seen CXOs come and go at multiple firms and over the next 2 to 3 years their cultural norm tends to take over. Hire in their image. Reward 'good' behaviour. See Westrum Cultural Typology
There is a good and relatively short paper which Dekker coauthored which is meant to translate Safety II theory to practice https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0951832018309864
Engineering approach: Assemble a good team, give them a challenge, let them hypothesise, experiment, iterate.
^^ that was a fascinating observation — that many haven’t had that visceral aha moment of what digital products can do
Aka “SOA done right” aka “not nanoservices”
Or team-sized-services per @me1208 @matthew
Yes, eat your own dog food. Moving support away from developers has an immediate impact on quality. Not in the direction we want.
I think it's good to see that. Encourages everyone who's not talking.
previous devs had gone mad and built many many micro services which made it super complex.. so we simplied
previous devs had gone mad and built many many micro services which made it super complex.. so we simplied
@paul was there an warning signs that stood out that would show "these are the microservices that we need to simplify"
for me Kafka.. is the warning sign, always seems to be plumbed in when you have a microservices mess
Have you considered getting rid of dev and QA environments? i.e. test in production?
Have you considered getting rid of dev and QA environments? i.e. test in production?
Hang on we haven't figured out how to accept operations into dev and test properly yet 😉
We do just this, Dev and Prod. Dev is test and experimentation prod is live and in use.
“92% of potential recruits wanted to join Coats” Awesome results of winning the war for talent!
Revelation: It didn't go according to plan
"Reality yielded to our plan" -Nobody ever
How do you control the overheads of managing the tool chain? Do you measure the effort?
Not sure how you all did these duo recordings and integrated them into this system, but they're great. @patrick.debois256 @genek101
Not sure how you all did these duo recordings and integrated them into this system, but they're great. @patrick.debois256 @genek101
All credit goes to @patrick.debois256 for helping pick the technologies we used. We did all recordings, including dual recordings like this, on StreamYard.
It’s good! “I effed up” is the most underrated educational tool
skill is knowing you are going to have problems and make sure you leave an escape tunnel, right....
Going to NoSQL and returning back to RDBMS is very valuable. You shut down voices that constantly push you to NoSQL.
Going to NoSQL and returning back to RDBMS is very valuable. You shut down voices that constantly push you to NoSQL.
The structure of the data was shaped by the products that had come before, so was heavily relational. NewSQL in the form of Cockroach was a good fit for us
The macroservice approach made that possible - gRPC, Kong, great assets the team built out
There’s a great piece I’ll try and find that basically said the main motivation to use NoSQL is bureaucratic processes about changing your schema
There’s a great piece I’ll try and find that basically said the main motivation to use NoSQL is bureaucratic processes about changing your schema
And that if it’s easy to make schema updates then just stick with relational
That VMware story is such a fascinating “middle management” pattern of behavior, referenced by @david627 — what middle managers can do and still claim that they’re 100% onboard, contributing to the mission.
That VMware story is such a fascinating “middle management” pattern of behavior, referenced by @david627 — what middle managers can do and still claim that they’re 100% onboard, contributing to the mission.
Its also scary to me that generally it comes from a completely genuine place. Makes me remember to show empathy and try to teach when I'm explaining problems.
listening to keynotes...you get the idea that "it's not that difficult to achieve greatness" sigh
listening to keynotes...you get the idea that "it's not that difficult to achieve greatness" sigh
I once saw someone demand that their 25 YO legacy be lifted to the cloud with no changes because their VP said so. In fact, if the request was refused, they would escalate to their VP. 🙂
I once saw someone demand that their 25 YO legacy be lifted to the cloud with no changes because their VP said so. In fact, if the request was refused, they would escalate to their VP. 🙂
Through the use of an escalation form they could duplicate and file one would hope
Signed in triplicate. Sent in, sent back, and recycled into fire lighters.
This is so great!!! https://www.coats.com/en/Tools/Coats-Synthesizer?utm_source=linkedin&utm_medium=organic+social&utm_campaign=synthesizer-app
how much was relevant was the platform itself compared to the freedom of greenfield gave to the team ?
how much was relevant was the platform itself compared to the freedom of greenfield gave to the team ?
We had to justify the move to google to get a green field, key learning was let your teams chose their tools but ensure they meet the needs of the company... otherwise you end up will super cool tools but no alerts..
@paul The pipeline capabilities allow you to pivot! Switch back to RDBMS is a good example. Don’t give away your pivot!!
Ask yesterday.... can we build a risk based app to enable all our employees to manage / understand risk
Ask yesterday.... can we build a risk based app to enable all our employees to manage / understand risk
This so much, sustainability is sometimes more about 'invest to save' and often the returns on improvement investments are way beyond just financial...
This so much, sustainability is sometimes more about 'invest to save' and often the returns on improvement investments are way beyond just financial...
If what you build is known, you can trade quality, cost and time to build. But if you operate in unknown world, doing research and development, the time and cost are unknown and all you can control is quality. That is why you ned to increase quality in order to improve cost and time to deliver.
or in other words, the new cloud platform was intrinsically better or the crucial factor is the change and freedom that it gave to the team?
or in other words, the new cloud platform was intrinsically better or the crucial factor is the change and freedom that it gave to the team?
in part try running K8 in azure / opposed to GKE.. allows more time to code, less time on fix
another Q have you consider using static generators + API for an eCommerce site?
yes and not possible, we have millions of product lines, we add 8000 new colour shades a month.. so off the shelf ecom could do it
makes absolutely sense as always engineering solutions depend on problems never apply the solution you know until you are sure enough that is the proper problem
'What do you do???' Just to be able to ask the question is a testament to the change in most orgs...
Systems thinking klaxon
Systems thinking klaxon
Some really good systems modeling and discussions on @lethain (twitter) and blog at https://lethain.com/ - also consider An Elegant Puzzle
So this is being explained to us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_governor
So this is being explained to us: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrifugal_governor
These were mentioned at Software Circus and another name for a governor would be kubernetes 😄
Love the diversity of the talks, look like we are on a road to the same destination but different roads are taken. The versatility make this world so exciting! 🛣️
Great book about design and cybernetics - https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B00YT68I46&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_nMg9EbTWKM7CA
Great book about design and cybernetics - https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asin=B00YT68I46&preview=newtab&linkCode=kpe&ref_=cm_sw_r_kb_dp_nMg9EbTWKM7CA
So many good books... besides the book will also need an additional book chest by the end of the conference 😂
Love this but l’m doing a lot of impression management trying not to appear negative about the implied goodwill in some of those leadership team behaviour assumptions
We’ve already sold the film rights! The Success Calculus Starring Christian Bale Jason Statham Timothy Spall Margot Robbie Miranda Hart Dir Guy Ritchie
We’ve already sold the film rights! The Success Calculus Starring Christian Bale Jason Statham Timothy Spall Margot Robbie Miranda Hart Dir Guy Ritchie
For more on feedback loops, thoroughly recommend 'Thinking in Systems: A primer' by Donella Meadows. Amazing book, couldn't read it fast enough.
I think this is fascinating. Like the business language itself impedes desired outcomes. Note how strange and long Newton’s original 3 laws of motion were, trying to explain something that defined easy explanation, because words like “acceleration” didn’t exist yet.
Hello, @mik — my co-conspirator on this panel, with Dr. Carlota Perez!!! A four year dream come true!!!
Thanks, @tim, @paul - it was very interesting to hear your story - and a useful insight about the nature of the process exhibiting negative feedback. And Physicists too! 👏👏
Thank you, attempted something fun, when we found out follow @jonathansmart1 ... having seen the talks over the years.. like going on after REM 🙂
Shout out to Chris Little for the original introduction to Dr Perez's work back in 2015
But that won’t stop people from trying 😉
@paul @tim I doubt those business language problems you describe are experienced at tech giants. Very fascinating!! cc @mik
@paul @tim I doubt those business language problems you describe are experienced at tech giants. Very fascinating!! cc @mik
Huge culture gap to bridge..."products are physical things, computers don't have those" - all part of the fun
Yes, I talked to Chris last DOES Vegas about his story with Perez’s work! Thanks @jwillis
@mik You deserve credit for really expanding the work. I just read it back then but never did anything with it.
Though interesting some of the culture challenges that @jonathansmart1 summarized in his talk are not entirely missing from those orgs.
“Make the refrigerator not the can opener”
Hmm. When will the market saturate for Taylorian leadership?
Hmm. When will the market saturate for Taylorian leadership?
Re @darrylbrown’s question above, I do think it is a really interesting question.
Last time I talked to Simon Wardley he said he was going to meet Dr Perez. I would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that conversation.
“it’s all huge experiment. globalization was an experiment. financial bubbles are the result of an experiment”
@mik @genek101: what are your go-to recommendations for someone to learn about Dr. Perez’s work?
@mik @genek101: what are your go-to recommendations for someone to learn about Dr. Perez’s work?
https://www.amazon.com/Technological-Revolutions-Financial-Capital-Dynamics/dp/1843763311
Here’s the podcast I mentioned between Patrick O’Shaugnessy and Jerry Neumann, the famous NYC VC. I thought it was one of the most interesting interviews I’ve ever heard, and actually had to listen to it at normal speed (instead of 1.5x), because the rate of info was too high for me to process otherwise! http://investorfieldguide.com/jerry/
actually had to listen to it at normal speed < high praise!
@genek101 We should get Wardley and Dr Perez together on a panel. There work overlaps well.
I’ve read every one of her blog posts, and there is quite a lot of what she is talking about now in the newer ones.
This was the link to the original paper - http://reactionwheel.net/2015/10/the-deployment-age.html
I recommend them if you’re interested in some of the topics she is bringing up now that are beyond her 2002 book
Which leaders is she referring to? 🍊
Reading list and listening list for Perez here: https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/archives/C015DQFEGMT/p1593076859317100
That’s where it’s at - “win win for society and for business” this is why we should leave none of the human topics at moral or common sense level
Yes @patrick.debois256, it is a profound message of hope
Yes @patrick.debois256, it is a profound message of hope
digital production -> digital consumption
I really love this, all the tech and everything aside, it's stuff like this that really gets my mind geared up and excited.
Also loving this informed optimism. I can't help but agree that it feels like a global pandemic combined with populist leaders in developed countries might really help to fuel a huge socio-economic turn-around and rapid recovery, golden age baby boomers 2.0 indeed. Humanity still has plenty of improvement opportunities.
Re the question of where we are, according to Carlota Covid-19 triggered the Turning Point, and until we start getting through the downturn/recession and we will not be in the Deployment Period. Until we are in the Deployment Period I don’t think we will see signs of the next Installation Period.
How much CO2 would be reduced by stopping SOAP parsing...
My concern is that last time we had a social situation like this, it took a cataclysmic event (the war) to move on, I would really rather we didn’t have to go through that again
@alistair.doran Right. I worked with her a bunch on getting that documented, and where precisely we are wrt Turning Point and Deployment, in this post: In terms of the precise timing, I a bunch with her to document this here: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/covid-19-triggered-turning-point-mik-kersten/?trackingId=fIQ0Lwd5TiqCxW%2FxUFg2xA%3D%3D
I remember when my parents use to say that the refrigerator and stove were older than me when I was on my early 20's. Now we want to have the top of the line every couple years.
I remember when my parents use to say that the refrigerator and stove were older than me when I was on my early 20's. Now we want to have the top of the line every couple years.
I had missed some of the subtlety of how Turning Point shifts to Deployment as it wasn’t in the 2002 book.
Evolutionary products that have change-built-in is the new long-lived-products
Evolutionary products that have change-built-in is the new long-lived-products
Sadly we have evolutionary products that now brick themselves when their servers in the cloud are switched off 😞
Some great stuff in http://thisisservicedesignthinking.com book on services == products == services
@mrmarrocos I think that this is mostly based on the cost model over product model
@mik “everything as a service” is such a powerful concept and lens for innovating business models
I also think the unattended consequences of complex networks could be overcome by cyber attacks.
Example: people habitually avoid each other in public where I live.
so many countries/societies are not yet on the "old ways"
I tend to think some folks will go back, but if enough of us don’t then we will pull society forward
The more people in the world, the faster the new epidemic comes. They spread globally…
Keep in mind her models indicate growing inequality in Installation, then declining inequality in Deployment. She’s touching on that now.
Keep in mind her models indicate growing inequality in Installation, then declining inequality in Deployment. She’s touching on that now.
She's right. Without the safety nets stability will be a dream of the past. It's a dangerous time.
Psychological safety for the society
Why not lead countries the transformational way too?
(Okay, democracy does not choose the best leaders by their leadership skill)
(Okay, democracy does not choose the best leaders by their leadership skill)
Our way of life is based on people having hopes and dreams.
Universal Basic Services
One thing that always strikes me in how she reflects on this is the combination of her visceral and intellectual understanding of the last turning point. She is 80 years old, lived the Oil & Mass production one in dependent Venezuela, and her guidance to us getting through this one is so critical.
4One thing that always strikes me in how she reflects on this is the combination of her visceral and intellectual understanding of the last turning point. She is 80 years old, lived the Oil & Mass production one in dependent Venezuela, and her guidance to us getting through this one is so critical.
4This universal basic income thing would be called communism in some corners of the world. Living in a Scandinavian welfare state, we consider ourselves capitalist and are a lot closer to reaching that.
Not to be cynical here. Before we get ppl internet we should get the 10.7 percent percent of the world's population .. food
Not to be cynical here. Before we get ppl internet we should get the 10.7 percent percent of the world's population .. food
why not both? 😉 different areas are on different maslow’s level anyway. but yeah we start with food for a lot of the world
I was about to say that... They can and do work together. Just sometime we get caught up in tech and not humanity.
To avoid pandemics like this and far more people dying of vaccinateable diseases every year, lifting the baseline is something that has to happen before everyone can be safe "again" (or finally)
We are the privileged... we should all do something today. I am going do something today...
@jwillis Sheds light to how we have actually made extreme poverty better and how media being media doesn't pay attention.
@jwillis - and the fun thing is, no need to go somewhere else. there are people around us that we can help with what we have. 🙂
@gerald.turaray_devops Truish. However, there are local and global optimizations in this too.
Yup. And impactful ways to join in without leaving home.
Working from home has helped me rediscover my garden, cooking etc, and really reevaluate in my life what I need vs what I think I want and ultimately less consumption makes so much sense.
I am so glad that someone is talking about the problem that mass consumption is having. Great talk
How do you temper enthusiasm enough not to make the team see this and another 2-3 talks? 🙈
Looking at our whole lives as part of the new revolution means that you invest in it too
@jwillis Here’s a lecture I went to from Ramez Naam, on the tech breakthroughs needed to feed the world, get sufficient water, etc. http://scribes.tweetscriber.com/realgenekim/328 (Ramez went to raves with Adam Jacob in Seattle. Small world. 🙂
I just asked myself what this all means for China - the so called new super power (of mass production?)
In my opinion we need to adopt micro architecture in all walks of life to balance it. e.g. we generate are own power, whenwe run short are next stop is community generated power and only then we tap into the national grid.
In my opinion we need to adopt micro architecture in all walks of life to balance it. e.g. we generate are own power, whenwe run short are next stop is community generated power and only then we tap into the national grid.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doughnut-Economics-Seven-21st-Century-Economist/dp/1847941397/ref=sr_1_1
Funny that obvious things like that have to be said out loud to adults like us 😄
She had some super interesting comments on badly we screwed up globalization and China. will try to make an “extended cut” — it’s worthy to be an MBA course
6She had some super interesting comments on badly we screwed up globalization and China. will try to make an “extended cut” — it’s worthy to be an MBA course
6Have past pandemics led to golden ages or major advances?
Have past pandemics led to golden ages or major advances?
Pandemics have shaped human history in major ways, particularly when they affect different societies asymmetrically, e.g. by clearing incumbents out of the way (Americas), or by blocking an advance (Europeans locked out of Africa for 400 years), or by devastating incumbent Empires (collapse of Mongolian system), or facilitating a major cultural shift (rise of Christianity and Islam both followed in aftermath of major pandemics in Roman and Byzantine worlds respectively).
For a longer answer check out https://bighistory.org/Origins/Origins_VII_03.pdf Or https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=54274C326DA07EE3!113&ithint=file,pptx&app=PowerPoint&authkey=!ABR89P-iBcUhYLU for a pptx version 🙂
That point about government is super critical to Carlota btw. That the practices this community is learning get applied to government.
That point about government is super critical to Carlota btw. That the practices this community is learning get applied to government.
Fascinating. What is the measure for success for a government? Being re-elected? 😉
Less survival anxiety? Motivators about electors rather than value sooner?
I speak to leaders from government and military in several countries and there is a lot of interest in flow, agility, etc, but optimising locally is only taking them so far. The huge number of cogs they have to move is mind-boggling.
We’re working with UK government. I see less survival anxiety compared to private sector, because tax. I see a hard job made harder because of politics. And I see people doing the work wanting to do it better and in many cases an amazing job has been done (e.g. GDS, HMRC)
@jonathansmart1 Similar to my experiences working with governments as well, unfortunately. The one thing I’ve heard a bit more of is Covid accelerating the need to move faster from policy implementation. I’ve had more discussions with government CIOs in the past 2 months than in my career. So hopefully this leads to a shift in mindset!
PS: One of my fave talks from DevOps Enterprise Summit was UK HMRC. Incredible how the filing mobile app was made, in one of the most complex IT estates on planet.
PS: One of my fave talks from DevOps Enterprise Summit was UK HMRC. Incredible how the filing mobile app was made, in one of the most complex IT estates on planet.
:flag-fi: Finland has gone a long way with digitalizing taxes. Instead of waiting 12 months for the decision, there is now a pre-filled tax return and we get our money back in June by now.
DOES just completely transformed in purpose for me in the last 30 minutes. Dr. Perez talks about the giant lens that is magnifying everything that is strong and lacking in our society, but DOES is putting the lens on the lens.
What an extreme zoom out from DevOps. We are effectively failing if we consider DevOps the final goal.
Mine is ready... after a bit of recovery from the conference.
I think we may see our next installation phase begin as education and technology focuses change towards how systems and technologies are managed, maintained, and secured.
Thank @genek101 he did all the crazy heavy lifting. Thank you @genek101!!!
1How to make working for the government more attractive and start moving to this change?!
Too awesome - how to sustainably dream and why. There’s one framing (yours @mik and @genek101 not hers:) and that’s about even mentioning “the organisation”
so true about young people and governments. And this issue is even more disaster in a "failed states"
What @mik told me yesterday afternoon : “Never mistake vision [a clear view] for a short distance.” For this particular adventure we just concluded, never truer words have been uttered! 😂😂😂😂
@genek101 the cut of your wave was a bit to late 😄. You should have kept the celebration!
Engagement with your citizens as customers with a DevOps lens... there must be something written about it out there
Engagement with your citizens as customers with a DevOps lens... there must be something written about it out there
Wow - so much to think on, and so much to be inspired by. Thank you @genek101, @mik and Carlota Perez 👏👏👏
I think Government are starting to learn to be agile as a result of COVID19, just hope they continue in this direction. Media also to change, as they influence how we look at things and too much blame culture in the media at the moment ........ it's got to STOP!!
Thanks @mik and @genek101 for bringing that to DOES- That was inspirational! 👏
thank you @genek and @mik for this great talk and inviting Dr. Perez!
Thank you @genek101 and @mik for having Carlota Perez at DOES, fabulous.
I have always thought the problem with Government is not the bloat but the lack of transparency that causes it. Hmmm if only there was a Devops principle that helped with that :thinking_face: . 😛 Thanks for that talk!!
PCI compliance 😂
3am here in Vancouver so bed time for me, but could not miss this historic moment of having her speak to the community!!! So great you did this @genek. We could consider making something like a #perez-revolutions channel so that those of us interested in continuing the discussion can keep the conversation going.
3am here in Vancouver so bed time for me, but could not miss this historic moment of having her speak to the community!!! So great you did this @genek. We could consider making something like a #perez-revolutions channel so that those of us interested in continuing the discussion can keep the conversation going.
yessss - older politicians need to pave the way for younger politicians by sharing wisdom, but also getting out of the way! I've worked on political campaigns in the past and wow is this so true! it's hard to be a "good" person and make your way to Capitol Hill with your virtues still intact - that needs to change
yessss - older politicians need to pave the way for younger politicians by sharing wisdom, but also getting out of the way! I've worked on political campaigns in the past and wow is this so true! it's hard to be a "good" person and make your way to Capitol Hill with your virtues still intact - that needs to change
There's no retirement plan for politicians, so no incentive to leave.
Another thing we learn from steam age is safety valves 😄
@jwillis gets to quote Deming for the second time
you can only complain on Slack Twitter and others constantly give me the "noooo" moment
Would be a great blog post - I see so many shallow attributions that float around news, blogs, and twitter
It was actually an old one I did at Velocity years ago (I recorded again for this event). We had two drop outs for lightning talks so I always love talking. Glad you enjoyed it.
I had a go at a visual for a selected history of Agile, in an internal talk at work last year
I had a go at a visual for a selected history of Agile, in an internal talk at work last year
This is nice 🙂
(I might put agile in quotes for Scaled “Agile” tho)
http://www.extremeprogramming.org/rules/refactor.html vs https://www.scaledagileframework.com/refactoring/, for one example
I went on a 3-day SAFe course early last year, when my brother (a Dev at a LargeBank) heard this, he went apoplectic. The point of the diagram is, a lot of people are trying things like it. You'll notice it subtly eclipsed by "Enterprise Agile".
SAFe is a crutch for waterfall dependent organizations to keep feeling like they are controlling all the inputs (while paying some degree of lip service to agile)
@mboudreau327 that was the thrust of my brother's rage Fwiw, the course was good for lots of aspects of Agile for the beginner, as long as you ignore the overall branded model... and they mentioned Mik Kersten's Project to Product in passing, which was how I discovered it.
@philipday we tried it for 4 PIs. While it had some good things, we found that it really limited short-term agility and maneuverability.
Interesting thanks. We've never tried it. Some groups have done something like the 'Big Room' internal PI event on a quarterly cycle, which I observed once, it was cool except that they had very little customer presence or input.
That is the challenge. Lack of short-term agility because of a heavy focus on predictive planning.
In theory SAFe encourages you to plan for having a degree of slack to cope with unplanned work.
But I’ve not seen it in practice as demand for feature work typically far outstrips supply.
I suspect the biggest problem is they try to sell it as a complete package, with rules and procedures, rather than encouraging practitioners to pick the bits of a framework that work for them (someone described Disciplined Agile in those terms in a chat earlier in the conference).
100%. It might have been me :) i’m a big Disciplined Agile fan.
(And the “they” is typically the big consultancies doing a SAFe rollout. Dean Leffingwell is much more nuanced about SAFe as a framework!)
Lean as in the Poppendiecks books for software came in 2000s, but it is a much older concept and practice.
I was just reflecting more on Dr. Perez’s observations this morning about turning products into services. It seems like even when this isn’t happening at a company level in terms of what is provided to external customers, it is very much happening internally as part of DevOps transformations. I’ve talked to several people over the last couple of days who mentioned that the way they broke down silos when transforming software delivery was to shift to self-serve / managed-service type offerings. So, for example, IT doesn’t consume tickets and produce VMs (a product), they provide a service that is more responsive and lower overhead. Anyone else see this shift happening?
I was just reflecting more on Dr. Perez’s observations this morning about turning products into services. It seems like even when this isn’t happening at a company level in terms of what is provided to external customers, it is very much happening internally as part of DevOps transformations. I’ve talked to several people over the last couple of days who mentioned that the way they broke down silos when transforming software delivery was to shift to self-serve / managed-service type offerings. So, for example, IT doesn’t consume tickets and produce VMs (a product), they provide a service that is more responsive and lower overhead. Anyone else see this shift happening?
I can only speak from my experience. When you operate lean (small) teams for internal products, you have no choice but make them self-service. My team is trying to automate metrics based CD coaching. 5 people cannot help 15000 in any other way.
100% this, i think this happens when an organizations realizes its limits in scaling tasks, and instead makes attempts at shift left activities by providing service platforms.
It has that kind of similarity with what John Willis mentioned yesterday about "Platform as an Interface"
Yes. Build new automated capabilities for the Enterprise. That’s another way of saying “a service”
@philipday Here's some research I did on a while back. I had some other really good stuff about the original Toyoda history. .. can't find it now... https://itrevolution.com/kata/
@david627 @genek101 @jessica.reif re watching your session. Great reference to Taylor. he was right about the importance of studying something to improve it. He was way off on the anti democratic approaches he took--the elite think, the masses do. The assumptions to such an approach are so flawed: • the “everyone else” will actually make matters worse rather than better • that situations are homogeneous, so we can have blanket solutions for a large enterprise. • the cycle time of the environment’s change is wicked slow compared to our cycle time of change. What happens when those aren’t true: • environment changes quickly and we don’t? We’re road kill. • situations are heterogenous not homogenous. Too many problems for elites to solve (eg cycle time problem again. Their problem solving cycle time will never eat through the back log. • if we engage the “everyone else” we can get locally tailored solutions where needed and have collective learning greater than the sum of the individuals.
@david627 @genek101 @jessica.reif re watching your session. Great reference to Taylor. he was right about the importance of studying something to improve it. He was way off on the anti democratic approaches he took--the elite think, the masses do. The assumptions to such an approach are so flawed: • the “everyone else” will actually make matters worse rather than better • that situations are homogeneous, so we can have blanket solutions for a large enterprise. • the cycle time of the environment’s change is wicked slow compared to our cycle time of change. What happens when those aren’t true: • environment changes quickly and we don’t? We’re road kill. • situations are heterogenous not homogenous. Too many problems for elites to solve (eg cycle time problem again. Their problem solving cycle time will never eat through the back log. • if we engage the “everyone else” we can get locally tailored solutions where needed and have collective learning greater than the sum of the individuals.
His model was factory as a machine, workers as parts, and management as machine designer/mechanic, finding and replacing faulty parts.
The problem may be that of the interchangeable knowledge worker.
@jwillis Somehow the Andon is really rare in IT at least on my radar. I think it was ten years ago at F-Secure when we had a "bug count stop the line" where we had a threshold where everybody would be closing or rejecting bugs until a lower threshold was reached. Has a huge similarity with error budgets introduced (again) in SRE. After leaving F-Secure, I have not been seeing a lot of thresholds that signal a shift in work mode.
@jwillis Somehow the Andon is really rare in IT at least on my radar. I think it was ten years ago at F-Secure when we had a "bug count stop the line" where we had a threshold where everybody would be closing or rejecting bugs until a lower threshold was reached. Has a huge similarity with error budgets introduced (again) in SRE. After leaving F-Secure, I have not been seeing a lot of thresholds that signal a shift in work mode.
The only thing more effective than that have been the few teams with zero-bug policy
It was 20-ish teams who sorted out the situation latest at the next Scrum of Scrums. So, it was more of a working agreement and visibility thing within the unit. It may have been that the rejection was used tactically and strategically but keeping the overall count low was the point and I don't see anything wrong.
It's like the oil indicator on your car. Except with software you won't be seeing the black smoke.
@ferrix Exactly.. Error Budgets are a perfect example of an Andon Cord. Most ppl think that a missed SLO means stop deployment. Actually a missed SLO ( thanks @damon ) what it means is investigate and figure out what's wrong and what can be improved.
@ferrix Exactly.. Error Budgets are a perfect example of an Andon Cord. Most ppl think that a missed SLO means stop deployment. Actually a missed SLO ( thanks @damon ) what it means is investigate and figure out what's wrong and what can be improved.
Hence keeping your SLO safely away from your SLA, you don't have to stop deployment to keep your money.
@jwillis However, a missed SLO might mean that the team will announce to their business counterpart that there will be less changes for a while and that may lead to all kinds of hard discussions. Which is to tell that driving at safe speeds probably shouldn't always be a purely business pressure decision.
Another Andon is the WIP limit where everyone becomes a tester when a certain limit of tickets is seen. They can be subtle and they should always be blameless. However, they are not appealing.
@david627 @genek101 @jessica.reif Another thought on the leadership skills, particularly outside the .mil world. The willingness to take on responsibility. ADM Rickover is to have said that you can distribute authority but you can never distribute responsibility. It always comes back to you. My impression is that in the .com, .edu world, that’s far less accepted. We see this in all sorts of situations--education where a child is having a poor experience, but the teacher, dean and principal don’t accept responsibility for the experience and outcome. Rather, there’s the wringing of hands, the furrowing of brows, but no actual corrective action.
@david627 @genek101 @jessica.reif Another thought on the leadership skills, particularly outside the .mil world. The willingness to take on responsibility. ADM Rickover is to have said that you can distribute authority but you can never distribute responsibility. It always comes back to you. My impression is that in the .com, .edu world, that’s far less accepted. We see this in all sorts of situations--education where a child is having a poor experience, but the teacher, dean and principal don’t accept responsibility for the experience and outcome. Rather, there’s the wringing of hands, the furrowing of brows, but no actual corrective action.
Responsibility can be distributed if there is intrinsic motivation to go with it. So, when the people find the outcome desirable for their own reasons, then you can see that actually happen. But responsibility cannot be told, it must be sold.
This is spot-on Steve.... we've observed the same with our clients (mostly .com). The top executives are much more likely to point fingers than take personal accountability.
@rasmus.hald just watching your talk in the library on vimeo, very nice story and I'm happy (maybe a little bit jealous) that you progress so well. unfortunately we are still stuck in the bi-modal phase, how did you get to "devops = strategic" phase?
@rasmus.hald just watching your talk in the library on vimeo, very nice story and I'm happy (maybe a little bit jealous) that you progress so well. unfortunately we are still stuck in the bi-modal phase, how did you get to "devops = strategic" phase?
It took a shift in leadership…. (Nothing I can claim credit for) to go past bi-modal IT. From there I was asked to “fix” the situation by bringing Mode 1 and 2 together and that eventually became the unified delivery model
@pdmoore Perfect! This is the channel where you’ll do Q&A!
I'm so sad i need to leave to catch my daughter. Looking forward participating @pdmoore Q&A. I will watch the replay. Thanks again DevOps Enterprise team making all this brilliant mind in the same spot.
One of the things that I love about @pdmoore’s perspective is that his background is from the business perspective, and more lately, in technology. I love that Peter worked with NYSE listed CEOs, and then alter with tech leaders, which has formed an incredibly unique perspective!
@genek101 spanning the business/technology divide. from the business side 🙂
“Systems of Engagement and Intelligence is what has contributed the vastly increased scope of technology within the org”
I'm gratified to have the opportunity to share my perspective with the incredible community you've built
PS: I believe Productivity Zone is what dominates the “dominant architecture” of technology in most orgs — managed as a cost center, spending 80% of technology spend. “Enormous amount of trapped value in Productivity Zone.” Bad things happen when you try to do disruptive things and measure it like a cost center, ala Performance Zone.
back in my previous company, aside from SOR, SOE, and SOInt, we were also playing around with the idea of Systems of Innovation. Not sure if my mentor got it from somewhere but they are systems where we were able to crowd source ideas, internal/external job markets for build -> deploy -> measure effect cycles, etc.
Incubation Zone: at BMW, the electric cars were put in an Incubation Zone, freed from the dominant architecture, able to create new rules, structure. And managed by different measures than Performance Zone. Optimized for learning, not for gross margin, right @pdmoore?
In 2000s at Microsoft, I’m assuming Performance Zone was Office and Windows. Which would kill any competition, like Azure. Or at least starve them of resources. 🙂
They dominated the performance zone to an extent that they were never able to launch a material new business in the 14 years Balmer was CEO
@pdmoore a handful of years ago, “intrapreneurship” was a big thing. that concept seems to align well to the “incubation zone”. are they similar?
Interesting. I see that sometimes "investing" means that something goes into Incubation Zone for a year and then back to Productivity Zone.
Interesting. I see that sometimes "investing" means that something goes into Incubation Zone for a year and then back to Productivity Zone.
In Zone to Win GM states that a business must support 10% of the organization's revenue to be in the performance zone. Anything lower is in the incubation zone, until it can be grown (or shut down).
I was thinking along the lines of getting hyped about Agile or DevOps or some fad for a year and after a year back into cutting costs.
Intrapreneurship is a component of the Incubation Zone charter and operating model
Microsoft faced a huge challenge in 2002+ with their source control system. When they started developing Longhorn, they took 3 months between a change done by one team could be used by another team as it traveled through their merge cycle. That has set them back 8 years.
Lovely example of the power of an open question!
Projects in the incubation zone can go to any of the other three zones depending on what the outcome is your looking for
I observe that a lot of organizations have established incubation zones to initiate new products / businesses based on digitalization, but that they struggle to move from the incubation zone to the transformation zone @pdmoore does this match you observations?
I missed that "one question" that they asked each division. What was it?
I will cover that in a few minutes when I talk about the 3 Horizons Model but you are spot on Peter
I love that Splunk story, and was thunderstruck about how the pattern of teams organized around Workday, Salesforce, etc… Parallels exactly what we saw in infrastructure, functional orientation.
@pdmoore what was the question you asked the Splunk business again? I want to quote it. 😉
What is making it hard for you to achieve the business results you and your team are accountable for in this year's annual plan?
What is making it hard for you to achieve the business results you and your team are accountable for in this year's annual plan?
Difficult to say that you don’t have other people’s best interests by asking this question!!! 😆
Interesting how that almost mirrors one of my standard 1:1 questions: “What can I or the company do to help you accomplish what you are trying to accomplish?”
PS: I love that the Swiss Re and the upcoming Siemens Healthcare experience reports represented successful Incubation / Horizon 3 stories, nurtured by Horizon 1. (I feel like we featured another one… it’ll come to me.)
Another incredible gem from @pdmoore: engineering a path away from a hostile vendor, in four months! @scott.prugh I’m sure this warms your heart. 🙂
not exactly red-shirt rebellion if they got the mission from CIO and $ from CEO but great idea anyway
Dealing with this now on a small scale, moving away from an ESB, to home built Kafka-based system for one of our clients. 250k to develop. Saves 600k/year + unknown highs support costs/issues.
Dealing with this now on a small scale, moving away from an ESB, to home built Kafka-based system for one of our clients. 250k to develop. Saves 600k/year + unknown highs support costs/issues.
This is awesome!! Make sure to model your growth savings and bring that case back to remind stakeholders. Helps a ton next time you need to.
Our old ESB was not only brittle and expensive but the operational stability discourage growth in the business.
Wow, yep. I'll definitely keep track of that so we can remind our customer. It's unbelievable. The cost of the ESB, and the issues it has. Over-promise, over-promise..... under-deliver. And this is a "newer" "Devopsy" type company....
Especially given the free alternatives and the aesthetics required for high performance capabilities: testing, builds, etc.
Or just about anything else that relies on native code vs config and pray...
Indeed. My goodness. The amount of "config and pray" systems we support that our clients pay obscene amounts of money to maintain, and develop around..... that are core to their business. :'(
@pdmoore: love the example of Edmunds displacing Oracle ERP with internally developed project. ❤️
@tommy Awesome. I’m pretty sure that one of the @scott.prugh stories was also an ESB.
@tommy Awesome. I’m pretty sure that one of the @scott.prugh stories was also an ESB.
@pdmoore I love that story of the red-shirts taking over and replacing a hostile vendor!!
Once started an agile/devops transformation with 1 department following the rule of the incubation zone. Big success!
Once started an agile/devops transformation with 1 department following the rule of the incubation zone. Big success!
We got SAFe working in such an environment. Based on the horror stories I've heard since, must have been dreaming.
Yes. It was flushed in a few years with a CEO change, so don't worry.
Language gentlemen:see_no_evil:😜
Can you come and do a talk about that @bryan.finster?
PSSD - often confused with post - Scrum -stress - disorder - similar therapy protocols @bryan.finster
I found out this morning that my company is starting SAFe. When I rewatch, Im going to try to pick up lessons learned. If there are lessons learned or things to avoid, I'd love to hear them.
@stijn.liesenborghs I'd be happy to. @chawklady hasn't crushed it yet?
@dacahill7 If it is run by smart people, the management supports it and you are not afraid to move beyond it and have the entire company behind it, you'll be fine.
The problem is when you apply any framework broadly to a large enterprise, step 1 is the last step.
@dacahill7 as long as the release train is kept to 1 team and "PI Planning" happens every sprint, you should be fine.
Full-time Scrum Masters who want to be Scrum Masters... potential oops
Too few roles for the people who get left without a seat... potential oops
Too many roles to fill with people who grasp agility on a topical level... potential oops
Starting every change in the book at once... potential oops
Starting too few changes... potential oops
Firing people to enable the transformation... potential oops
Not firing people after the transformation... potential oops 😄
Getting the number of trains wrong... potential oops
@bryan.finster what do you use now instead of SAFe? Common sense? Lean/Kanban?
Uhoh. I already know Im the only permanent person on the release train team. I was hoping to spread that more based on this weeks learning, but this sounds like it will be harder to hand off that responsibility to other teams.
Non-permanent members on a "team"... sure oops
@bryan.finster If you had teams owning outcomes to begin with, you could have pulled off SAFe 😄
If you have teams owning outcomes you can do XP instead of SAFe
@rohrersm You need SXPFe to scale it to other functions
If you have teams owning outcomes you descale instead of scaling
@rohrersm Most developers don't want to work in customer-facing roles so the "other Ops" will be left undone in many businesses. But if your API is your product, sure.
However, the Dojo Consortium is working on a scaling framework. @ross.clanton508 has proposed Scaled Agile Devops Maturity Framework. Who wants a certification?
@bryan.finster I think I have the certification already
Very similar. "Enterprise transformation without the risk of culture change"
can’t we agree it’s WoT(WayOfThinking)NotWoW (WayOfWorking) and good will irrespective of framework? :woman-shrugging:
When we work with teams, we tell them we don't care how they do it. Only otcomes matter.
I have been thinking about a book about "Talk to people and find out what the problem is" framework but I am still looking into how to excite anybody to actually try it once.
“only outcomes matter”: can I plug a new book on just that topic
Would you consider ALL of the outcomes?
Yes. Is the customer being served Are associates happy? Is our bottom line improving
My book idea: Strategies for Improving Where You Work - Tips from a Wildly Optimistic Pragmatic Cynic
My book idea: Strategies for Improving Where You Work - Tips from a Wildly Optimistic Pragmatic Cynic
Accidental outcomes too 😈
Well, the main point of agile development is we are trying to find out how wrong we are rapidly. Accidental outcomes are expected. 🙂
I mean happy accidents- we just need to pay attention
I didn't expect lifelong friendships to form from working to execute CI as a team.
Happy accidents like: "Nobody resigned today"
there - no book in the new manifesto: 1. Do the things; 2. Pay attention; 3. Don’t be dumb; 4. Don’t be an a-hole; 5. Be agile in your DNA
simples:dizzy_face:
the previous manifesto had four lines. Any of those you could ignore to make it concise?
you try ignoring any @ferrix
I was thinking the 4. is a bit hostile towards a-holes.
LoL on the contrary we should try for no “Psychological Safety for a-holes”
Yeah. How can the a-holes be psychologically safe now?
Heh. Popper’s paradox of tolerance
in fact l’d be on board with scrapping all but 4 - isn’t agile smart and observational common sense anyhow?:)
I’d like to think so. But some of it is uncommon sense unfortunately 😕
“You should plan things in detail before coding them” feels like common sense to some. “Finish all your analysis before you bother the developers so as not to waste their time”. Etc.
People struggle thinking small enough and also having broad views at the same time.
is this an end of conf major topic musing with a touch of cynicism and blasè sarcasm vibe?
@me1342 now that you mention it. The "don't be dumb" is worth dropping since you need to role play dumb to test effectively. So either it has to go or be "be dumb only on purpose" 😄
They fail at the first and also think they are supposed to ignore the second.
bring that dumb is being smart @ferrix so doesn’t count
both IQ and EQ necessary
Yep, that’s a Liz Keogh thing. Testers wearing the evil hat.
@bryan.finster evil and dumb find different bugs
The universe will create better fools is the ultimate challenge of foolproofing
It's been really great talking to you all. Don't be strangers. Slack is forever.
Based on what you guys said, there's a high likelihood I will be annoyed by some of the SAFe ceremonies. I will definitely come back to vent/ get advice 🙂
I for one will still be here 🙂
@dacahill7 The ceremonies are not the problem. It is understanding what they can do for the people which is often skipped.
Yes. This is true. Process over People is a big red warning.
So if the SoS is about redirecting the people every day over the most pressing issues and impactful priorities, it will be time well spent.
"Are we learning together right now?" is the one question quiz that will point you to any bad smell in any brand of Agile ceremonies.
A problem I saw was skipping the core skill of breaking down work to the size required for CD. This proofs the team against priority switching.
I am seeing a lot of difficulty of splitting things small enough being seen as the more important thing while the real thing is no shared vision. With that one, the batch size will be easier too.
"If that's the necessary next thing, maybe now is not the time of making this in an overengineered way"
I went to a program manager once and asked what the overall product goal was. He gave me marketing nonsense. I told him I couldn't test against that goal.
If you can, then lay out the roadmap and align the teams to the roadmap along domain boundaries and drop batch size to multiple deploys per day per team.
Continuously ask yourself: how can I get from concept to cash in less than an hour.
(Channeling Dave Farley)
And any story bigger than a day has too much uncertainty (channeling Paul Hammant)
If you are certain that it is absolutely the most impactful thing, who cares how big it is?
If it's bigger than 2 days then you don't know how big it is, it has too much uncertainty about what it should actually do, it probably has unknown dependencies, etc.
If you decompose it with BDD, you can easily slice it into tiny, testable deliveries.
But if it still has the biggest impact, who cares? The software industry is not saying enough: "It is ready when it is ready"
Sure, releasing daily is all well and good but if there is no cost of delay, like so often is the case, then none of it makes sense and if CoD is a certainty, then you simply do it.
This is what I mean saying that understanding the vision trumps focus on batch size.
Big impact is made up of many small impacts. If the batch size is large, so is the risk> 1. There are probably more bugs 2. Even if there are no "bugs" you don't have the requirements clarity required to deliver what was actually needed. This drives the defect vs enhancement arguments 3. It's too big to code review 4. The lack of requirements clarity means it's poorly tested.
Also, I would never have a custom house built without incremental inspection during construction. Why would I allow that in software when incremental inspection is so much easier?
From a team perspective, customers tend to put less pressure on a team when they observe progress. You get much better customer or business relationships with daily progress.
Yeah, that's a feasible way to implement anything locally. The problem I am seeing that the missing monkey in between is verifying that whatever you split, plan, prepare, implement and test is really important.
So the phenomenon I am seeing is not asking the important questions of why that stuff is on the backlog in the first place. So it is essentially local optimization of implementing something of questionable business value in high quality.
That is what a PO is for; keep the roadmap continuously prioritized.
Yes, many people do desire driven development and hope someone wants it. That's just lazy.
When you incentivize people for delivering features vs value, you get that outcome.
Even more critical to deliver smaller in that situation so someone can say "STOP!" sooner. 🙂
Incentivise to to be a feature factory and/or never bother the implementation people with the business
Yes. I've talked to people in other companies who's bonuses were tied to features delivered.
Delivering smaller really doesn't solve the problem unless you have a feedback loop from implementation to assumed user behavior. Otherwise you've just been a good drone deploying something fast as commanded 😄
Me too. But if there is no hypothesis, live in prod is "probably good"
Your end user will tell you if it's quality. Critical to have that feedback loop.
Removing undesirable functionality is a black belt concept
The end user will "tell" by never clicking the new button and you'll be maintaining it for extended amounts of time before that.
Unless you have OCD people who spend their time driving down code complexity. 😄
No different than developers building houses no one is buying.
It's important for the company paying for those houses to understand the housing market.
Intangible houses are easier to make in excess
So, understanding the vision is step one and splitting is step two and many of the teams I have met have infinite pride in skipping step one and feel smug about getting better at standalone step two. 😄
Still have ongoing costs. Strange to me that some people don't understand that every line of code costs money by existing. Companies that incentivize that are just burning money.
Harder cost to calculate: code inventory. We did find 16M€ in a 100 team 6 week release cycle. Most CFOs are not counting.
"What are the reasons for everybody waiting?"
Processes do not exist for no reasons, but sometimes nobody remembers what those were.
But sure, tough questions is all it takes.
raincheck. almost 1 am here and ready to zzz
I'm still a fly on the wall reading this conversation. If you guys do meet up, I'd love to listen in!
I'm grabbing a drink. If anyone joins in the next 10 minutes, we can have an after conf, beverage.
“Demand management” — because it’s not actually an all you can eat buffet… 😆 …and because we may not actually have the skills to do it …and do we know how to measure whether it was worth doing. Aweosme.
was pivoting to an open source ERP project instead of developing internally considered?
Sometimes it's easier to just develop than search for an evaluate open source
Demand management... Wow... Pure gold in those three questions... Sometimes you feel you are under a water hose of new demands
Actually, now that I’m listening to it, I’m thinking the Swiss Re iptiQ story has now moved into the transformation zone. If I understood correctly, iptiQ was designated as a “unicorn,” with valuation higher than $1B. cc @victoria_mayo @james839
I think there’s some overlap with Kent Beck’s 3X here https://ideas.riverglide.com/3x-explore-expand-extract-b9aad6402a5a
it’s amazing to (re)discover these concepts after a long time: https://www.amazon.com/Alchemy-Growth-Practical-Insights-Enterprise/dp/0738203092
@pdmoore thanks for the presentation at DOES today and your talk on the Gene Kim podcast! How do you view the future for big ERP and PLM systems from large vendors? I like your example with the company developing most ERP functions internally. But what is the trend in make vs buy for enterprise software?
“Horizon 1 and Horizon 3 can often co-exist peacefully. It’s Horizon 2 where people get stuck, because funding often is at the expense at Horizon 1.” 😆 I can personally attest to this from my Tripwire days a decade ago! Oh, I love this Microsoft story!
I think there will continue to be a balance between make versus buy especially for Systems of Record. Less so for systems of engagement and systems of Intelligence
I think there will continue to be a balance between make versus buy especially for Systems of Record. Less so for systems of engagement and systems of Intelligence
This I think is where Wardley mapping can help
MIcrosoft is almost a 100% different company than under Balmer
They don’t even really care about Windows that much these days
“During Ballmer tenure, over 14 years, despite having world-beating free cash flow. 95% of resources were put behind Horizon 1 efforts.” Now it’s the world’s most valuable company. Satya was able to free the company from the pull of the past.
“During Ballmer tenure, over 14 years, despite having world-beating free cash flow. 95% of resources were put behind Horizon 1 efforts.” Now it’s the world’s most valuable company. Satya was able to free the company from the pull of the past.
Startups don't face the number of competing priorities well established companies face but they can still get caught up in trying to do too many things too soon
@pdmoore It amuses me that the one exception in Ballmer era was the Nokia acquisition for $7.2B. 🙂 Would love your reaction to that. 🙂
Acquired growth doesn't have to rely as much on shifting internal resources and budget as organic growth does
what if you have the opposite - you are fighting to fund the existing where you need to protect the existing customer base but ther pull for resources in zone 2 and 3 is very strong. @peter.fassbinder @pdmoore
Interesting, @cindy_vineberg — it just occurred to me that I’ve been on both sides. Trying to protect Horizon 1 from “crazy ideas,” and trying to protect Horizon 2 and 3 from powerful Horizon 1 leaders. 🙂
Interesting, @cindy_vineberg — it just occurred to me that I’ve been on both sides. Trying to protect Horizon 1 from “crazy ideas,” and trying to protect Horizon 2 and 3 from powerful Horizon 1 leaders. 🙂
That is the biggest leadership challenge well established companies have. You need to be very clear about what your growth metrics are for the performance zone companies to deliver your short term results
@pdmoore the key takeaway is so simple but so profound. i can imagine all the dysfunction when you mix metrics and zones
I wish we could had time to host a Q&A session with @pdmoore — Peter, can you share how people can reach you if they have any questions, want to contact you, etc?
I wish we could had time to host a Q&A session with @pdmoore — Peter, can you share how people can reach you if they have any questions, want to contact you, etc?
IT As A Profit Center!
Thank you @pdmoore! This was a very interesting talk! Spawn a lot of thinking to follow up.
Welcome everybody to our talk @carsten.spies and myself are ready for Q&A
Up next: Dr. @peter.fassbinder and @carsten.spies! A Horizon 3 effort in the healthcare industry.
IT as a profit centre is an antithesis of where most CFOs understand IT's place
@carsten.spies and @peter.fassbinder are on and ready for your questions!
PS: Peter and I met two years ago at DevOps Enterprise London, and I’m so delighted that he’s brought his colleague to share an experience report.
PS: Peter and I met two years ago at DevOps Enterprise London, and I’m so delighted that he’s brought his colleague to share an experience report.
Looking forward to it @carsten.spies and @peter.fassbinder heard good things about what you guys are doing
Could we create a channel for continued chat with @pdmoore so we all can follow and learn?
It would be better (and more agile?) to have separate channels for each presensation or speaker than "track-1", "track-2" etc... at least for continuing the conversation after the presentation ends....
It would be better (and more agile?) to have separate channels for each presensation or speaker than "track-1", "track-2" etc... at least for continuing the conversation after the presentation ends....
@jessicam @annp Can you make this so? ^^^ we had idea of “ask-speakers-backstage” or something.
@jessicam @annp Can you make this so? ^^^ we had idea of “ask-speakers-backstage” or something.
If it's just one channel, then we should try and kave a thread per speaker/topic... or it gets rather confusing
@genek - We’ve talked about this internally and created a plan to roll these out.
@genek - We’ve talked about this internally and created a plan to roll these out.
it's so cool to watch the conference being made, even/especially here at the final hour on the final day. awesome.
@pnuwayser - We are thinking about calling it (h/t to @jonathansmart1) “Stage Left” (continuing the conversation with speakers)
Would be great if there’s a way to drop the great conversations from the last three days into their respective new speaker-specific channels, when they’re created 🙂
#ask-jon-smart is better. but what if there's more than one speaker on the topic?
good point… and something I should have thought of given that I had a co-speaker! 🙂
Allows for the virtual conversation to carry on in the corridor while the next speaker is on
And other's might want to contribute expertise, so that it's not about the speaker, rather about the topic
I've noticed that Slack can get unnavigatable when there are too many channels
Good point. I’ve seen several people commenting in #general or #ask-the-speaker-track-1 during keynotes and in #ask-the-speaker-keynote for a track 1 talk.
☝️:skin-tone-2: using #ask- as a prefix keeps it close to the speaker channels
I decided that’s what #happy-hour was for… since it was always happy hour somewhere!
I am so fascinated by @peter.fassbinder role and his funding model, and how he works with business units, such as led by @carsten.spies.
^^^ I may be oversimplifying, but it’s an internal consulting model run from inside the “corporate mothership,” with the goal of helping business units win in marketplace by having key experts.
…and how they address the problems of central corporate groups building up expertise in areas that business units don’t care about! 😆
…and how they address the problems of central corporate groups building up expertise in areas that business units don’t care about! 😆
but do those business units own IT orgs care about it?
@lucas.rettig IT teams are of course involved and use the expertise of the key experts in the consulting groups
thats good to hear… did initially those groups view it as competing with the work that they’ve traditionally done?
I dont think so. Peter and and the team consult and help to get the things done right.
This reminds me of a community of practice with a few that are helping to guide that community (the key experts mentioned)
HA, totally just got to that part in the video (I feel i'm on a bit of delay). LOVE the communal drive for this
One key learning we had is the importance of defining the target DevOps scenario, as this can vary quite significantly between the business units and product areas
@genek101 You summarized it quite well, that's the key behind it. And because we have >40 business units, I can facilitate a lot of X-learning in addition to bringing in new ideas as e.g. learned at the DOES from all of you 😀
sometimes we don’t know yet the target devops scenario. or it’s not aligned throughout organization. how can we start? how to engage c-level on that vision?
sometimes we don’t know yet the target devops scenario. or it’s not aligned throughout organization. how can we start? how to engage c-level on that vision?
We have a structured approach to identify the target DevOps scenario. You are right, that there is generally a lot of uncertainty (everybody has a different understanding of DevOps), therefore we put such a big emphazise on it.
thanks for the reply. i’ll try to compile your tips and the ones addressed in DOES and come up with an hipothetic approach :)
PS: I can’t describe how excited I was when @peter.fassbinder told me that he could bring in a healthcare industry, with such significant regulatory responsibilities.
PS: I can’t describe how excited I was when @peter.fassbinder told me that he could bring in a healthcare industry, with such significant regulatory responsibilities.
“Decoupling safety-relevant and non-safety-relevant components in the system…” 🤯
“Decoupling safety-relevant and non-safety-relevant components in the system…” 🤯
this set off a ringing alarm bell for me also, reminded me of something mentioned about Therac-25 the other day
@karl.marfitt Yes, splitting the system actually helped us to speed up the release cycles. Happy to connect and share experience.
@carsten.spies: “started in 1800s, first industrially manufactured x-ray. now magnetic resonance, ultrasound, laboratory diagnostics, and all their corresponding digital services”
53K employees globally; 600K installed base; but most important metric, how many people around the world are 240K patients that our products touch every hour (!!!)”
“TeamPlay Insights: operations management; turn huge amounts of radiology data insights, visualization. “AI offerings to help radiologists”
@peter.fassbinder how do all the business units know what you're offering? Are you training people, offering documentation, pipelines, etc?
@peter.fassbinder how do all the business units know what you're offering? Are you training people, offering documentation, pipelines, etc?
We are "in town" since > 20 years and have very many established networks and alumni. In addition, we do trainings, internal events and conferences, use internals social networks, etc.
thank you very much, also just heard about groups of experts and internal conferences...
Partners, ecosystems = confidence and vision
“changed from long running software dev to frequent; from 1-2 years to 3 months cycle to production” “created lots of new feedback loops: from unit testing, to real customer feedback that we integrate into our processes”
“continuous compliance: deliver to value continuously, high quality, always complying with regulations that apply to us”
A happy customer testimonial! 🎉 🎉 🎉 “”The 10% increase of our efficiency gave us a revenue that we could reinvest in buying new machinery and having a better quality to service or patients.”
@rob Recently we @vladyslav.ukis published the following article. https://www.infoq.com/articles/continuous-delivery-teamplay/?itm_source=infoq&itm_campaign=user_page&itm_medium=link
We are of course happy to connect in private channels, by email or using LinkedIn
“I’m here to push more from corporate side” — words typically not received with smiles and enthusiasm. 🙂
“I’m here to push more from corporate side” — words typically not received with smiles and enthusiasm. 🙂
“I’m from HQ and I’m here to help.” :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
We only "push" if the business units "pull", but we set the trigger for innovative approaches and they are greatful for that.
We only "push" if the business units "pull", but we set the trigger for innovative approaches and they are greatful for that.
Interesting the idea to split a system in parts with different levels of compliance/regulation
Interesting the idea to split a system in parts with different levels of compliance/regulation
Yes. Happens with PCI, for example. Read about the cafeteria POS in The Phoenix Project.
Nope. The Phoenix Project. Bill outsources the cafeteria POS system.
the element that struck me is the idea of using this as a design / architectural pattern
@gvian Yes, splitting the system actually helped us to speed up the release cycles
no doubt as I am in regulated company I took some stuff for granted, but now I have additional ideas for challenging
“as a corporate key expert: I’m expected to be a thought-leader, know where industry is moving, and pushing these practices across enterprise. “The business relationship is important: we aren’t driving the topics. The business units must pay for our services, as a consultant, helping ensure that we do what the business units value.” <<--- AWESOME.
Sounds like you guys have to “always be on” - no automated piloting allowed
Sounds like you guys have to “always be on” - no automated piloting allowed
We have means for co-creation with customers e.g. with different deployments of the system. But yes, the production system is "always on" and monitored closely also in terms of regulatory compliance. @me1342 does this give you an idea?
…and now, a wonderful testimonial for @peter.fassbinder from @carsten.spies 🙂 “We benefit from expert know-how from you and your colleagues, and how you support our transformational products. We like the sharing of practices, and it’s very helpful, and we’ve deployed broadly within our teams.”
I wish we had more time for @carsten.spies to discuss the topics of continuous compliance and culture. @peter.fassbinder @carsten.spies Can you post how others can reach you here? THANK YOU!!!!
Many compliance folks simply believe the safest approach is to deny everything. Interested in how to enable business growth while remaining compliant
Many compliance folks simply believe the safest approach is to deny everything. Interested in how to enable business growth while remaining compliant
We have involved Q right from the start in all projects, which was certainly a key factor in moving this transformation forward.
Thank to all the speakers and to the programming commitee. Great Event!!
Thank you @genek101 @mvk842 @jeff.gallimore @jessicam @patrick.debois256 @alex for keeping the show on the road and pulling off the first virtual DevOps Enterprise Summit!
Thank you, programming committee! Thank you @sam @patrick.debois256 for getting us to the end safely!!!
Keep the conversations going on slack! Don't let the momentum die out. 🎉:unicorn_face:❤️
Gosh how do we thank you guys enough? Can someone do an Oscar like thanks list for the whole team?!? Minds blown, horizons expounded and loads of hope and enthusiasm
Thank you everyone - just a fabulous conference.
I loved this. Particularly that it was virtual. I probably would not have been able to participate if it were live. I recommend continuing this even post COVID
You can reach me via LinkedIn, <mailto:peter.fassbinder@siemens.com|peter.fassbinder@siemens.com>, <tel:+4915222972998|+49 152 2297 2998> - happy to connect with anybody interested in discussing those topics!
I am most surprised by the networking and Q&A
Wow - fantastic three days. Great speakers, lots of thoughts provoked, lots of things learned and some great conversations. Thank you all!👏👏
Maybe even if DOES London does return physically next year we could have a virtual DOES as well? (If that wouldn’t exhaust everone even more)
Maybe even if DOES London does return physically next year we could have a virtual DOES as well? (If that wouldn’t exhaust everone even more)
And thank you @genek101 for taking the plunge and enormous challenge of organizing this event in a virtual way! 🙏
The networking did work. I made connections. New ones. The expo was also great. Great interactions with the vendors, as good (better?) as f2f expo
A huge thank you to everyone involved, really enjoyed all of it, very much appreciated ❤️
I am delighted by how much value there has been in "being live", with these comments, the happy hour, etc
I guess intensified LinkedIn and other stuff remains.
big ❤️ shoutout to @genek101 for tirelessly curating content that is worthwhile watching
Great work IT Rev team!!! I’m amazed at how effective this turned out given the short timeframe and first go at the virtual format. Let’s keep the conversations going 🙂
Thanks @genek for the virtual conference.... The content and interactions was top dollar
This was great. I had some skepticism about doing this online but the platform and the richness of the presentations made it very engaging.
This was my first DOES definitely won't be my last, what an amazing experience, thank you so much to @genek101 and the wider team!
watch them all and decide by yourself :D
@philipday you can see Attendees (maybe it’s who added it to the schedule?) at the bottom of the details page. There’s also a filter for Popular
I believe you made it all a succes by being here and discussing things on slack - best audience ever
5it was all awesome!. first stop virtual conference in london, next stop global asynchronous 48 hour conference?
I know right @olivier.jacques so what if they’re stacking the chairs- how will they kick us out? 😂
the idea of playing a movie while interacting with the director is great @genek101
Maybe next virtual conf. Making sure we have an all-hands conf at the very end!
It was my first (but I hope not the last) DOES. Incredible sessions, and value. Would love to see the energy of this in F2F, mabe next time. Thank you to all the DOES team and now, to watch the recordings 😉 take care, be safe.
My first DOES. Probably the best conference I've ever been to! Thanks to everyone who helped organize it and all the attendees.
...now to sort through the 150+ links I have stored up over the last 3 days
...now to sort through the 150+ links I have stored up over the last 3 days
Please add them to the list! https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/archives/CATJP0R0X/p1593097834404100
Thank you @genek101 for envisioning this virtual conference. I would not have made it in person if it happened in London this year. Great experience and wish that we continue to have virtual summit(s) along with in-person summits to enable more participants outside these countries
Personally I look at the time and track and then look at the response in the #ask-* channel during the talk.