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2020-06-25
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Hi! How's the energy on day 3 of #does20 ? I'll be here to answer questions on my presentation H&M Cloud Transformation at Scale starting soon!
@jakob.knutsson Which Agile practices or ‘ceremonies’ did you have to relearn in order to get rolling on DevOps and Cloud?
@ferrix Thanks for the question! There had been agile initiatives scattered across the org, SAFE, Lean, Scrum, Kanban etc. I think our main mission in the start was to remove the organisational and technical blockers and to enable autonomy for our development teams. Right now we are working alot with OKRs and focus on value outcome!
@ferrix Thanks for the question! There had been agile initiatives scattered across the org, SAFE, Lean, Scrum, Kanban etc. I think our main mission in the start was to remove the organisational and technical blockers and to enable autonomy for our development teams. Right now we are working alot with OKRs and focus on value outcome!
Thanks. What I am seeing that some of the teams who have been agilish for some time, will have some degrading practices that need a refresher. For example having meaningful retros again once the autonomy is really increasing.
I am seeing retros, WIP limits and refinement work as something that need a bit of recapping when the working agreement between business and teams is reworked.
@jakob.knutsson you have platform as code, and talk about drag and drop to create a pipeline, what about pipelines as code ? how do the engineers feel about the drag and drop you talked about ?
@ulf.kvistborg Of course we support pipelines as code! And our pipelets support that as well! - Good point!
I like the ideea of business tech instead of IT department. @jakob.knutsson great presentation!
That's great. I am really happy for you. I met some of your team last year.
@jakob.knutsson Where do you feel the greatest areas of improvement for H&M are in terms of where you are at and where you want to get to?
@jakob.knutsson Where do you feel the greatest areas of improvement for H&M are in terms of where you are at and where you want to get to?
@johann.tambayah We set up our own North star - where we wanted to be. North star changed as tech evolved - so its a moving target!
@jakob.knutsson what were some of the key challenges you encountered as part of your cloud adoption?
@jakob.knutsson what were some of the key challenges you encountered as part of your cloud adoption?
Knowledge sharing and inspirational sessions - start sharing success stories. And work activly with upskilling!
@ulf.kvistborg products are funded based on the value and business case! the product teams are responsible for their own budget.
@ulf.kvistborg products are funded based on the value and business case! the product teams are responsible for their own budget.
is that including cloud consumption and tooling to be used across all engineers like Visual Studio or intellij and so on ?
Yes for cloud consumption! Some tooling we still take "centrally" by other teams as part of their offering for the teams to be able to be productive and have a great developer experience!
@jakob.knutsson How do you weave security into your approach of self-service etc? In particular looking at the huge amount of open source that the dev teams will be using?
@jakob.knutsson How do you weave security into your approach of self-service etc? In particular looking at the huge amount of open source that the dev teams will be using?
We try to shift left, having security capabilities being part of our golden patterns, reference architectures and implementations. As well as providing tools to scan repos and look for vulns etc. Also have a team that can help you with threat modeling for YOUR product - so you know what you as a team need to focus on.
not sure it's hero effect...I thought that too. But the pattern has been continuing into June. (not on slides)
Enforcing a break is very important during these times. We try to do it every hour.
Enforcing a break is very important during these times. We try to do it every hour.
this is important, because in this part of the world, managing perception (that you're productive) is important. *i say part of the world because idk if it's true in the west
Yeah we've stretched out on a couple days where we had an issue. but I still like to think of work and home as being separate. So that home time is important.
Separating work space from home space is a help I think, but I work from my kitchen, so not an option.
@gvian this is discussed in published report. I expected big difference, but we didn't see it in code.
The team I am on has actually seen an increase in output since lockdown, this is very interesting stuff.
This non-finding (COVID does not seem to disrupt dev work) was a big surprise to me.
I had one bank tell me that they never go back to central office. They realized they got more done in the past 4 months remote than anytime in their history. They have already decided not to go back this year... Maybe never.
Also heard similar from another bank. Alsoo factoring cost of downtown office space…
My mum has been a home worker for an insurance company for many years. She's often said that home workers cost the company £7k less. Interms of stress, days off sick, not being able to get to the office etc. I will have to get the facts off her though as I'm not 100% I got the story right.
This is so interesting, especially because I can look at some of these and see my own reactions and steps that have lead to my own burnout.
The problem is that we still don't have any good pre-COVID burnout data about our industry. I've been wanting to do an IT or Devops MBI for years..
@samgu, you’re my hero — always so insightful! Love the combination of research you’ve brought together here.
@jonathan.evason this is consistent with other cases, e.g. JetBlue in the US.
I found work and home life time “smearing”, longer, less intense effort. Always on Duty became a big problem and I introduced office hours at home, which helped.
My intuition guess prior to the talk was that developers would spend more time writing code when all WFH, as there would be fewer meetings and other distractions. I’m curious about whether they are building the right thing to the same degree as they were previously, if there is less collaboration (another guess)?
@jwillis I share the skepticism. CTrip is the best long-term data I've found.
I wonder how being alone vs with a roommate vs with family affects the burnout and desire to work remote longterm.
I wonder how being alone vs with a roommate vs with family affects the burnout and desire to work remote longterm.
Yeah I live with my partner and child and I feel better for it, a colleague is literally on his own and I can tell he isn't happy.
We have some remote employees (pre-COVID) who have found that an alternation between working solo at home vs. going out into semi-social settings (coffee shop) helps them, but it's very individually variable
I’ve seen WFH used for evil. My friend worked for a major insurance company processing claims. Most employees were forced to WFH after a few months, and THEN given a 10% higher target number of cases to close per day.
@dacahill7 Family distraction is a huge problem. If you can't set schedule and boundaries, then you struggle.
@dacahill7 Family distraction is a huge problem. If you can't set schedule and boundaries, then you struggle.
I'm living by myself right now. Boundaries are certainly difficult. Found myself working a 75 work week a couple of times because its harder to physically get away. I think seeing the types of problems that those with famillies run into can help people like me show more empathy towards them and vice versa.
One of the MBI three variables is efficacy. I have talked to DT Maslach about this in IT. No data but I believe efficacy is the silent issue in our industry. My belief now during COVID it is got to be worse.
One of the MBI three variables is efficacy. I have talked to DT Maslach about this in IT. No data but I believe efficacy is the silent issue in our industry. My belief now during COVID it is got to be worse.
Paraphrasing a Twitter theme: We are not working from home in a pandemic. We are stuck at home in a pandemic trying to get work done
Yeah. I mean, giving professionals a quota AT ALL is a huge problem. These are registered nurses!
@jwillis I have been trying to figure out efficacy, but don't have a great metric. What is value delivered? We've been using proxy metrics around pull request activity and flow, and deployments and availability. If you have better, I'm all ears.
I think this is why we need an MBI in our industry. However, it would be really cool to get github correlation. I want to think about that though...
There are those of us who focus best laying on the couch with laptop on lap in the least traditionally ergonomic position possible 🙂
25% of the population not having broadband 😱. We should do something about that!
One book I would love to recommend. ==> https://www.amazon.com/When-Scientific-Secrets-Perfect-Timing/dp/0735210624 Talks about how to effectively spent your day... i found this especially usefull during these COVID times
@samgu: Do you have data on which of these are most important for meeting effectiveness?
I would expect things like turn-taking to be more important than lighting for example
Right now, I use my personal laptop for conference calls while a different computer is remoted to my work desktop. Having to physically turn away from focus on the meeting when looking for resources someone is asking about really leads me to be more distracted. Fits well with the positioning the camera and mic intentionally
"I'm going to let my dog out" - how far we have come from the BBC "interruption" meme
I’m bad about taking breaks. As much as we try to end meetings 10 minutes early, it rarely happens. A friend recently suggested starting meetings 10 minutes later instead. I’m going to try that next.
I’m bad about taking breaks. As much as we try to end meetings 10 minutes early, it rarely happens. A friend recently suggested starting meetings 10 minutes later instead. I’m going to try that next.
Oh this is a great idea! Start time is so much more easily enforced.
That's my life, the kid or the dog especially when presenting or in meetings!
and that dog interlude exemplifies the new normal for wfh
Adorable, much loved… and VERY prone to barking at inopportune moments.
You're not the only one with that issue. Do you think that they know it's bad timing?
Personally I think my dog could care less. IT’S THE DELIVERY TRUCK OMG OMG
"How many manual approvals from idea to deploy" -- and how much time elapses between approvals, I think Sam said on Day 1
Talking of Visual Studio Code, the presentation by @martinwoodward yesterday on GitHub’s new Codespaces feature (embedding VSCode into GitHub) was amazing 🙌 This explains how it’s a game changer: https://char.gd/blog/2020/github-codespaces-means-your-computer-doesnt-matter-anymore
Talking of Visual Studio Code, the presentation by @martinwoodward yesterday on GitHub’s new Codespaces feature (embedding VSCode into GitHub) was amazing 🙌 This explains how it’s a game changer: https://char.gd/blog/2020/github-codespaces-means-your-computer-doesnt-matter-anymore
My buddy @divineops recorded a deep dive on Codespaces recently if you want more info see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy2eYaNxaQc
We've joked about committing code directly on the repo and not via the IDE locally before where I work, then GitHub brought out this!
thinking about how our workspaces will come to resemble hospitals more... and the opportunity for more empathy with frontline healthcare workers...
With regards to productivity and DevSecOps during these hard times, there this interesting article we wrote recently: https://blog.sonatype.com/accelerating-productivity-digital-value-streams-and-devsecops-during-covid-19... Worth having a read. 🙂
@samgu This is my first DOES and I was unfamiliar with your work before now. Where would you suggest I continue learning from your work?
Automated Testing for Mainframe is an area people use as an excuse to not do end to end automated test. Thank you for sharing the details.
OpenShift and Red Hat Code Ready Workspaces - now a place to built traditional z/OS applications with both the full IDE as well as a sandbox
I will get the charts updated - Galasa is full open source and provides a framework for various kinds of testing
yes, I did the best I could with the recording - but this is open and available to anyone, so you can download it in your own vscode environment to see it
the fun thing about vscode in dark mode, is some traditional developers say it looks like a 3270
Does not look like the traditional development for COBOL, and with full unit testing and early integration testing in the build process you can get that fast feedback.
Slightly off-topic but does the same tool set exists for IBM i as well? There are probably 3rd party solutions but is there something for unit tests, plugins for VS code provided by IBM? There's Rational Developer for I but that's a heavy IDE and no unit testing (unless I know the product not well enough)
Most of the same works for IBM i as well, ie you can use Git and Jenkins pipeline
IBM Wazi VTP -> Virtual Test Platform. IBM loves an TLA (three letter acronym). Shift your testing left.
@rradclif You mentioned multiple IBM products and tools targeted for modern mainframe development. From these products and tools, which do not support PL/I programming language?
So our goal is support PL/I at the same time but your right we don’t always. Wazi VTP does support PL/I and Assembler day one with COBOL
with the pipeline we are trying to add the key open source tools, if you have your favorite tools you see as missing let us know.
In terms of a production-like 'self-service' (simulated/emulated?) development or test environment did you say the Wazi VTP build platform was running on commodity x86 or a real Z mainframe? I'm guessing that some/many dev/test folks may not have access to break their own real Z machine unless its a virtual one 😉
In terms of a production-like 'self-service' (simulated/emulated?) development or test environment did you say the Wazi VTP build platform was running on commodity x86 or a real Z mainframe? I'm guessing that some/many dev/test folks may not have access to break their own real Z machine unless its a virtual one 😉
and there is a version of the product Z Development and Test Environments that’s for Personal use. Anyone can get it. We have independent contractors getting it saying it’s about equivalent in cost to other environments.
thanks for this content sharing version control and the pipeline is a key enabler to coordinate work on the various platforms
@rradclif the video-in-video is obscuring the detail above the Test box on your pipeline. I think I see "Galasa" but what else is stated there?
the other tool in the box are Rational Test Workbench - IBM products appear at the top Open source below. usually
Security matters for z/OS development as well - it’s something most people forget - security test should be included
What open source testing tools or other tools would be helpful for the mainframe? Let me know
@rradclif l got nothing of value but just to say l love listening to you nonetheless
Oooh ilities yes! This is brilliant and likely also applies to any other architecture not just Z. thinking of some/many of our midrange POWER clients that could benefit from similar approach to emulate the hardware for automating (maybe a little slower but mostly functionally valid) testing
Thank you all for your questions, I will be staying on all day, and happy to answer anything that comes up.
@rradclif How do you encourage mainframe devs to do unit testing? It’s quite challenging to get them agreeing to do test automation. Any pointers?
Since you asked, Compuware's Topaz for Total Test is at the top of my list. It is superb! https://www.compuware.com/. We have many enterprise customers getting great value. Here is one example of some real-world ROI https://resources.compuware.com/forrester_tei_topaz_for_total_test_lp
if you try any of the tools mentioned by Rosalind, we’d love to hear your feedback!
The biggest problem we see is the lack of environments - with Wazi VTP we don’t need the middleware so users can actually test, and same with zUnit so they get to actually do their coding without worrying about others - this gives them a reason
Thank you for showing the world that mainframe is not a mysterious box ... it can be mainstreamed into powerful automated pipelines.
SO excited for this bit 🥳
“Well oiled feature factories” ✅
“Well oiled feature factories” ✅
@john.cutler dunno if l ever said about that bank exec who mentioned you as “that productivity guy on Twitter” 🙂
Right? Cigars are irrelevant at this point
Have you seen @mik and @genek101 with Carlota Perez earlier? You’re like she “manifested you”
“everything is the business” < would that make a good tattoo?
Imagine a bank and its "products" @cncook001 ... vs. how you experience your bank
I like the praise for healthy tension. Too often people think good collaboration means that everyone gets along all the time and there’s never any friction.
I have to laugh when execs ask for healthy conflict/tension, but then they hire and promote only mini-mes.
Actually, our team is one of the most diverse I’ve seen in tech in terms of gender, ethnicity and age (I’m in the group Craig’s referring to), and that’s due to focused recruiting efforts. But there’s still a fear of conflict that we always have to combat.
exactly @cncook001 ... such a vital shift in thinking (and experiencing) products
This is a theme today too: products ==> services
the user needs (Jobs to be Done) don’t change, the features / technology changes over time
Apple isn’t selling me a single iPhone - they’re selling me a hook into the Apple ecosystem.
Apple isn’t selling me a single iPhone - they’re selling me a hook into the Apple ecosystem.
I’m an Apple fanboy still unfortunately
I also really like the idea of trying to take your customer up the ladder to greater and greater value.
it is actually a clever idea, put the slides in the slack channel!
Is there a chance to compile the pictures in an accompanieing pdf. Than it is perfect. @john.cutler
I like this as I'm watching live... not so easy if watching again at a later time
I’ll have to come back and re-scroll through the Slack channel. 🙂
@john.cutler so many great quotes in your talk. Will be listening to it again.
“People buy on features but renew on outcomes” is the new “Adoption is Vanity, Retention is Sanity”
“Your product will end up as a mishmash of ideas if you aren’t learning fast enough” (semi-quote) …so true
This is helpful expectations setting towards the end of the conference when I'm doing more comparison and seeing the bad spot we are in.
DevOps Community (maybe) focused a lot on delivering fast, yet less on delivering what is right.
DevOps Community (maybe) focused a lot on delivering fast, yet less on delivering what is right.
I was thinking about how we could bring in user metrics - NPS, user satisfaction, revenue, etc - along with more common metrics, like build success, etc
True, to get fast customer feedback by deliver small and fast is important. Yet get to know who are the customers or what values they may want is equally important.
@john.cutler Have you happened to know any kinds of technologies or tech practices which helps?
enable rapid feecback, product analytics, and zeroing in on measuring moments of customer value exchange
“What works doesn’t look like work” :)
Would love to chat about how this is hard on a trading platform!
So very good @john.cutler 👏👏👏
Thanks for the talk @john.cutler! I’m sure to be quoting it to the team I’m working with.
Thanks all. Always happy to chat ... either Twitter or <mailto:john.cutler@amplitude.com|john.cutler@amplitude.com> . Whatever works.
@john.cutler not implying it’s not for everyone but I do think that there is a profile of a customer that would be more “ready” to make this transition. Have you captured that profile or guidelines for moving organizations in this direction? I’ll be relistening in case joining late is my issue.
@jen ... in my experience, the competitive landscape is "pushing" people towards the transition whether they embrace or not.
So it becomes a necessary evil if you will from the company perspective. Expect a swell with time
any chance of spinning up a Q&A with you @john.cutler during this 6:50-8:00 (PT) / 1450-1600 BST time chunk?
any chance of spinning up a Q&A with you @john.cutler during this 6:50-8:00 (PT) / 1450-1600 BST time chunk?
I'd be happy to do one now. I would need to relocate away from my 2yo who is knocking on my computer to get YouTube going.
@john.cutler Sure! Do you have a zoom/meeting link you could share? Ours are tied up in network. You can go ahead and post in this channel!
<!here> 👆Join John Cutler for follow-up Q&A (thank you @kboth_does!)
A note to everyone who might be interested in the current live Q&A with @john.cutler - in order to give him a break before another commitment, we'll end the Q&A at 15:30 BST.