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2020-06-25
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jakob knutsson09:06:56

Hi! How's the energy on day 3 of #does20 ? I'll be here to answer questions on my presentation H&M Cloud Transformation at Scale starting soon!

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Toby Thorslund09:06:03

Look forward to it @jakob.knutsson!

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Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)10:06:51

Welcome @jakob.knutsson for Q&A after break!

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Toby Thorslund10:06:28

Wow - this is high ⚑!

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:06:50

@jakob.knutsson Which Agile practices or β€˜ceremonies’ did you have to relearn in order to get rolling on DevOps and Cloud?

jakob knutsson10:06:55

@ferrix Thanks for the question! There had been agile initiatives scattered across the org, SAFE, Lean, Scrum, Kanban etc. I think our main mission in the start was to remove the organisational and technical blockers and to enable autonomy for our development teams. Right now we are working alot with OKRs and focus on value outcome!

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jakob knutsson10:06:55

@ferrix Thanks for the question! There had been agile initiatives scattered across the org, SAFE, Lean, Scrum, Kanban etc. I think our main mission in the start was to remove the organisational and technical blockers and to enable autonomy for our development teams. Right now we are working alot with OKRs and focus on value outcome!

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:06:53

Thanks. What I am seeing that some of the teams who have been agilish for some time, will have some degrading practices that need a refresher. For example having meaningful retros again once the autonomy is really increasing.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili10:06:49

I am seeing retros, WIP limits and refinement work as something that need a bit of recapping when the working agreement between business and teams is reworked.

Ulf10:06:19

@jakob.knutsson you have platform as code, and talk about drag and drop to create a pipeline, what about pipelines as code ? how do the engineers feel about the drag and drop you talked about ?

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Akis Sklavounakis10:06:06

'We don't have IT department anymore': Is this future-state or now?

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jakob knutsson10:06:43

@ulf.kvistborg Of course we support pipelines as code! And our pipelets support that as well! - Good point!

Bogdan Babalau-Maghiar10:06:48

I like the ideea of business tech instead of IT department. @jakob.knutsson great presentation!

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JohannT10:06:28

@jakob.knutsson did you follow a cloud transformation roadmap for H&M?

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jakob knutsson10:06:40

Hi @akis.sklavounakis - it is for us! How are your experience?

jakob knutsson10:06:40

Hi @akis.sklavounakis - it is for us! How are your experience?

Akis Sklavounakis10:06:31

That's great. I am really happy for you. I met some of your team last year.

jakob knutsson10:06:26

@bogdan.babalau-maghia Thanks - appreciate it !

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Toby Thorslund10:06:55

@jakob.knutsson Where do you feel the greatest areas of improvement for H&M are in terms of where you are at and where you want to get to?

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Toby Thorslund10:06:55

@jakob.knutsson Where do you feel the greatest areas of improvement for H&M are in terms of where you are at and where you want to get to?

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jakob knutsson10:06:16

Decoupling large monoliths and technical debt is still high on our agenda!

Toby Thorslund10:06:06

I hear you! Not an unusual scenario... ;)

jakob knutsson10:06:20

@johann.tambayah We set up our own North star - where we wanted to be. North star changed as tech evolved - so its a moving target!

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Ulf10:06:03

@jakob.knutsson how is the funding model for business tech ?

Deepak Ramchandani Vensi10:06:36

@jakob.knutsson what were some of the key challenges you encountered as part of your cloud adoption?

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Deepak Ramchandani Vensi10:06:36

@jakob.knutsson what were some of the key challenges you encountered as part of your cloud adoption?

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jakob knutsson10:06:20

Raising the cloud maturity in a large org is one!

Deepak Ramchandani Vensi10:06:10

any particular approaches that worked best to help raise that?

jakob knutsson10:06:20

Knowledge sharing and inspirational sessions - start sharing success stories. And work activly with upskilling!

jakob knutsson10:06:01

@ulf.kvistborg products are funded based on the value and business case! the product teams are responsible for their own budget.

jakob knutsson10:06:01

@ulf.kvistborg products are funded based on the value and business case! the product teams are responsible for their own budget.

Ulf10:06:21

is that including cloud consumption and tooling to be used across all engineers like Visual Studio or intellij and so on ?

jakob knutsson10:06:34

Yes for cloud consumption! Some tooling we still take "centrally" by other teams as part of their offering for the teams to be able to be productive and have a great developer experience!

Toby Thorslund10:06:37

@jakob.knutsson How do you weave security into your approach of self-service etc? In particular looking at the huge amount of open source that the dev teams will be using?

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Toby Thorslund10:06:37

@jakob.knutsson How do you weave security into your approach of self-service etc? In particular looking at the huge amount of open source that the dev teams will be using?

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jakob knutsson10:06:28

We try to shift left, having security capabilities being part of our golden patterns, reference architectures and implementations. As well as providing tools to scan repos and look for vulns etc. Also have a team that can help you with threat modeling for YOUR product - so you know what you as a team need to focus on.

Toby Thorslund11:06:53

Sounds like a good approach. Thanks.

Toby Thorslund10:06:15

Dynamic talk btw. Full of energy and enthusiasm. Thank you.

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Toby Thorslund10:06:15

Dynamic talk btw. Full of energy and enthusiasm. Thank you.

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jakob knutsson10:06:54

Thanks for all the questions #does20 !

Davy Kenis10:06:33

looking forward to this insights @samgu

John Willis10:06:35

I have found this as well.

John Willis10:06:25

the hero effect

Sam Guckenheimer10:06:04

not sure it's hero effect...I thought that too. But the pattern has been continuing into June. (not on slides)

John Willis10:06:17

I'm sure you will get to this...but there is a new burnout

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John Willis10:06:17

I'm sure you will get to this...but there is a new burnout

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John Willis10:06:54

I'm meant in the sense of the longer hours no breaks..

John Willis10:06:07

This is great stuff...

Jonathan Evason10:06:40

Enforcing a break is very important during these times. We try to do it every hour.

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Jonathan Evason10:06:40

Enforcing a break is very important during these times. We try to do it every hour.

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Andrew Salt10:06:50

Also length of working day. Too easy to work long hours.

rose g10:06:07

this is important, because in this part of the world, managing perception (that you're productive) is important. *i say part of the world because idk if it's true in the west

Andrew Salt10:06:34

I think it’s true everywhere Rose.

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Jonathan Evason10:06:04

Yeah we've stretched out on a couple days where we had an issue. but I still like to think of work and home as being separate. So that home time is important.

Andrew Salt10:06:10

Separating work space from home space is a help I think, but I work from my kitchen, so not an option.

Jonathan Evason10:06:46

Same here! But I know the hours, I switch off the laptop and put it away.

Andrew Salt10:06:14

Not tempted to checkin on stuff later?

Jonathan Evason11:06:17

Nope, I'm done for the day and that's it. It's discipline I guess.

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Giulio Vian10:06:03

hope you have a comparison between GH public vs private (aka Enterprise)

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)10:06:06

Welcome @samgu! Thank you @jakob.knutsson

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John Willis10:06:47

Would love to see this data using SPC

Sam Guckenheimer10:06:06

@gvian this is discussed in published report. I expected big difference, but we didn't see it in code.

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John Willis10:06:27

do you have a link?

Sam Guckenheimer10:06:28

We saw soem difference in issues, but it's very noisy.

John Willis10:06:09

That's crazy cool ... more OSS projects...

Jonathan Evason10:06:06

The team I am on has actually seen an increase in output since lockdown, this is very interesting stuff.

Sam Guckenheimer10:06:27

This non-finding (COVID does not seem to disrupt dev work) was a big surprise to me.

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John Willis10:06:35

I had one bank tell me that they never go back to central office. They realized they got more done in the past 4 months remote than anytime in their history. They have already decided not to go back this year... Maybe never.

Tom Ayerst10:06:08

Also heard similar from another bank. Alsoo factoring cost of downtown office space…

Sam Guckenheimer10:06:29

One hypothesis is that there will be a delayed burnout effect

Jonathan Evason11:06:28

My mum has been a home worker for an insurance company for many years. She's often said that home workers cost the company Β£7k less. Interms of stress, days off sick, not being able to get to the office etc. I will have to get the facts off her though as I'm not 100% I got the story right.

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems11:06:52

This is so interesting, especially because I can look at some of these and see my own reactions and steps that have lead to my own burnout.

John Willis11:06:56

The problem is that we still don't have any good pre-COVID burnout data about our industry. I've been wanting to do an IT or Devops MBI for years..

Stephen Magill [Sonatype]11:06:58

@samgu, you’re my hero β€” always so insightful! Love the combination of research you’ve brought together here.

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John Willis11:06:55

The only thing close is the there was an MBI done by B-slides for ITSEC

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:57

@jonathan.evason this is consistent with other cases, e.g. JetBlue in the US.

Tom Ayerst11:06:30

I found work and home life time β€œsmearing”, longer, less intense effort. Always on Duty became a big problem and I introduced office hours at home, which helped.

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Sam Guckenheimer11:06:35

@jwillis we're working on this...coming up

John Willis11:06:47

Would also love to see this overlayed with Hawthorne Effect work

John Boyes11:06:08

My intuition guess prior to the talk was that developers would spend more time writing code when all WFH, as there would be fewer meetings and other distractions. I’m curious about whether they are building the right thing to the same degree as they were previously, if there is less collaboration (another guess)?

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John Willis11:06:45

This is awesome data...

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:48

@jwillis I share the skepticism. CTrip is the best long-term data I've found.

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems11:06:28

I wonder how being alone vs with a roommate vs with family affects the burnout and desire to work remote longterm.

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems11:06:28

I wonder how being alone vs with a roommate vs with family affects the burnout and desire to work remote longterm.

Jonathan Evason11:06:31

Yeah I live with my partner and child and I feel better for it, a colleague is literally on his own and I can tell he isn't happy.

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Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect11:06:41

We have some remote employees (pre-COVID) who have found that an alternation between working solo at home vs. going out into semi-social settings (coffee shop) helps them, but it's very individually variable

Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:59

I’ve seen WFH used for evil. My friend worked for a major insurance company processing claims. Most employees were forced to WFH after a few months, and THEN given a 10% higher target number of cases to close per day.

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:38

@dacahill7 Family distraction is a huge problem. If you can't set schedule and boundaries, then you struggle.

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Sam Guckenheimer11:06:38

@dacahill7 Family distraction is a huge problem. If you can't set schedule and boundaries, then you struggle.

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems11:06:02

I'm living by myself right now. Boundaries are certainly difficult. Found myself working a 75 work week a couple of times because its harder to physically get away. I think seeing the types of problems that those with famillies run into can help people like me show more empathy towards them and vice versa.

Tom Ayerst11:06:50

Certain orgs seem to use everything for evil 😞

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John Willis11:06:23

One of the MBI three variables is efficacy. I have talked to DT Maslach about this in IT. No data but I believe efficacy is the silent issue in our industry. My belief now during COVID it is got to be worse.

John Willis11:06:23

One of the MBI three variables is efficacy. I have talked to DT Maslach about this in IT. No data but I believe efficacy is the silent issue in our industry. My belief now during COVID it is got to be worse.

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect11:06:17

Paraphrasing a Twitter theme: We are not working from home in a pandemic. We are stuck at home in a pandemic trying to get work done

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:34

@ann.marie.99 I think the evil of overwork quotas is orthogonal to WfH

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:34

@ann.marie.99 I think the evil of overwork quotas is orthogonal to WfH

Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:33

Yeah. I mean, giving professionals a quota AT ALL is a huge problem. These are registered nurses!

Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:39

However, in this case the company directly tied it to WFH.

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:27

@jwillis I have been trying to figure out efficacy, but don't have a great metric. What is value delivered? We've been using proxy metrics around pull request activity and flow, and deployments and availability. If you have better, I'm all ears.

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:45

Hence the diary studies

Jonathan Evason11:06:45

Looks like torture!

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John Willis11:06:01

I think this is why we need an MBI in our industry. However, it would be really cool to get github correlation. I want to think about that though...

Stephen Magill [Sonatype]11:06:04

There are those of us who focus best laying on the couch with laptop on lap in the least traditionally ergonomic position possible πŸ™‚

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Sam Guckenheimer11:06:07

@jwillis open to all ideas here

Davy Kenis11:06:10

25% of the population not having broadband 😱. We should do something about that!

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John Willis11:06:24

@samgu Also efficacy correlation can't be aggregate and latent.

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:44

@davy.kenis I'm amazed there is not more public attention. Vote!

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John Willis11:06:17

@samgu I think it could be done. I need to noodle it a bit.

Davy Kenis11:06:17

One book I would love to recommend. ==> https://www.amazon.com/When-Scientific-Secrets-Perfect-Timing/dp/0735210624 Talks about how to effectively spent your day... i found this especially usefull during these COVID times

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Sam Guckenheimer11:06:37

I love Dan Pink's work.

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Stephen Magill [Sonatype]11:06:03

@samgu: Do you have data on which of these are most important for meeting effectiveness?

Brian Martin11:06:20

@samgu we are captivated.

Stephen Magill [Sonatype]11:06:21

I would expect things like turn-taking to be more important than lighting for example

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Sam Guckenheimer11:06:42

@stephen Turn taking is clearly huge. Everyone complains about this.

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect11:06:43

AV quality is pretty darn important - especially audio

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:03

The other issues affect individuals differently.

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems11:06:30

Right now, I use my personal laptop for conference calls while a different computer is remoted to my work desktop. Having to physically turn away from focus on the meeting when looking for resources someone is asking about really leads me to be more distracted. Fits well with the positioning the camera and mic intentionally

John Willis11:06:38

What kind of dog?

Kasia Karpinska11:06:47

❀️ 🐢

Pete Nuwayser - IBM11:06:49

"I'm going to let my dog out" - how far we have come from the BBC "interruption" meme

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Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:52

I’m bad about taking breaks. As much as we try to end meetings 10 minutes early, it rarely happens. A friend recently suggested starting meetings 10 minutes later instead. I’m going to try that next.

Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:52

I’m bad about taking breaks. As much as we try to end meetings 10 minutes early, it rarely happens. A friend recently suggested starting meetings 10 minutes later instead. I’m going to try that next.

Stephen Magill [Sonatype]11:06:30

Oh this is a great idea! Start time is so much more easily enforced.

Sam Guckenheimer11:06:54

sTAFORDSHIRE bULL tERRIER

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Jonathan Evason11:06:05

That's my life, the kid or the dog especially when presenting or in meetings!

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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)11:06:33

and that dog interlude exemplifies the new normal for wfh

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Tom Ayerst11:06:33

I think its healthy

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Sam Guckenheimer11:06:41

Actually I have two dogs. The older one hallucinates.

Andy Bold11:06:43

We've all been there @samgu πŸ• πŸ˜†

Pete Nuwayser - IBM11:06:47

COWORKERS πŸ™‚ πŸ• πŸ‘Ά:skin-tone-2:

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Grace Hoang11:06:50

it's humanizing

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Jonathan Evason11:06:04

I agree, you know it's still a home and we're not robots!

Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:11

Current status:

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Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:11

Current status:

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Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:40

Adorable, much loved… and VERY prone to barking at inopportune moments.

Jonathan Evason11:06:21

You're not the only one with that issue. Do you think that they know it's bad timing?

Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:44

Personally I think my dog could care less. IT’S THE DELIVERY TRUCK OMG OMG

Jonathan Evason11:06:16

We've all got family etc in our homes with us!

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM11:06:46

"How many manual approvals from idea to deploy" -- and how much time elapses between approvals, I think Sam said on Day 1

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Sam Guckenheimer11:06:27

@nuwayser yes. This is consistent with the flow framework.

Brian Martin11:06:29

Automation doesn't care where you work. AweSome!

John Boyes11:06:58

Talking of Visual Studio Code, the presentation by @martinwoodward yesterday on GitHub’s new Codespaces feature (embedding VSCode into GitHub) was amazing πŸ™Œ This explains how it’s a game changer: https://char.gd/blog/2020/github-codespaces-means-your-computer-doesnt-matter-anymore

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John Boyes11:06:58

Talking of Visual Studio Code, the presentation by @martinwoodward yesterday on GitHub’s new Codespaces feature (embedding VSCode into GitHub) was amazing πŸ™Œ This explains how it’s a game changer: https://char.gd/blog/2020/github-codespaces-means-your-computer-doesnt-matter-anymore

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Martin Woodward11:06:03

My buddy @divineops recorded a deep dive on Codespaces recently if you want more info see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy2eYaNxaQc

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Jonathan Evason11:06:40

We've joked about committing code directly on the repo and not via the IDE locally before where I work, then GitHub brought out this!

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Sam Guckenheimer11:06:06

If you want to check the links...here is the preso.

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM11:06:24

thinking about how our workspaces will come to resemble hospitals more... and the opportunity for more empathy with frontline healthcare workers...

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Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect11:06:25

Dedicating time for focus: No meeting Mondays!

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM11:06:45

Thanks @samgu πŸ‘

John Willis11:06:46

Awesome job @samgu

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jmed11:06:32

Brilliant presentation, timely thoughts @samgu thank you!

Grace Hoang11:06:43

Thanks @samgu!!

Jonathan Garzon11:06:03

With regards to productivity and DevSecOps during these hard times, there this interesting article we wrote recently: https://blog.sonatype.com/accelerating-productivity-digital-value-streams-and-devsecops-during-covid-19... Worth having a read. πŸ™‚

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Jonathan Garzon11:06:09

Great talk btw πŸ™‚

Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:36

And now… we’ll take a much needed break. :-)

Ann Marie Fred - IBM11:06:36

And now… we’ll take a much needed break. :-)

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect11:06:32

to recharge our headphones πŸ™‚

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)11:06:16

@samgu thanks for bringing focus to this important topic!

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Sam Guckenheimer11:06:03

@nickeggleston you're welcome. I had to convince Gene. Hahaha!

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems11:06:46

@samgu This is my first DOES and I was unfamiliar with your work before now. Where would you suggest I continue learning from your work?

Rosalind12:06:02

Happy to join you all to discuss Automated Testing for IBM Z

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Rosalind12:06:02

Happy to join you all to discuss Automated Testing for IBM Z

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Sandeep Joshi13:06:49

Automated Testing for Mainframe is an area people use as an excuse to not do end to end automated test. Thank you for sharing the details.

Pete Nuwayser - IBM12:06:39

πŸ‘‹:skin-tone-2:

Pete Nuwayser - IBM12:06:14

IBM presenting on OpenShift at DOES! πŸ™‚

Rosalind12:06:16

OpenShift and Red Hat Code Ready Workspaces - now a place to built traditional z/OS applications with both the full IDE as well as a sandbox

Pete Nuwayser - IBM12:06:59

looks like that URL s/b galasa.dev

Rosalind12:06:39

oops yes galasa.dev

Jeannette Monroy12:06:48

:flag-pe::robot_face:πŸ™‚

Rosalind12:06:31

I will get the charts updated - Galasa is full open source and provides a framework for various kinds of testing

Giulio Vian12:06:51

cool, pity that 720p doesn't make justice to VSCode

Rosalind12:06:30

yes, I did the best I could with the recording - but this is open and available to anyone, so you can download it in your own vscode environment to see it

Rosalind12:06:18

the fun thing about vscode in dark mode, is some traditional developers say it looks like a 3270

Theresa D Ramsey12:06:50

Mainframe testing BYOIDE - bring your own IDE :-)

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Rosalind13:06:49

Does not look like the traditional development for COBOL, and with full unit testing and early integration testing in the build process you can get that fast feedback.

Rosalind13:06:41

Even if your new to COBOL the IDE makes it easy

Tom Coudyzer13:06:47

Slightly off-topic but does the same tool set exists for IBM i as well? There are probably 3rd party solutions but is there something for unit tests, plugins for VS code provided by IBM? There's Rational Developer for I but that's a heavy IDE and no unit testing (unless I know the product not well enough)

Rosalind13:06:34

Most of the same works for IBM i as well, ie you can use Git and Jenkins pipeline

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Rosalind13:06:02

but we have not built a vscode extension specifically

Theresa D Ramsey13:06:45

IBM Wazi VTP -> Virtual Test Platform. IBM loves an TLA (three letter acronym). Shift your testing left.

Mikko Niemi13:06:06

@rradclif You mentioned multiple IBM products and tools targeted for modern mainframe development. From these products and tools, which do not support PL/I programming language?

Rosalind13:06:55

So our goal is support PL/I at the same time but your right we don’t always. Wazi VTP does support PL/I and Assembler day one with COBOL

Rosalind13:06:18

the open editor also provides PL/I support

Rosalind13:06:47

zUnit is behind, it will soon

Rosalind13:06:21

with the pipeline we are trying to add the key open source tools, if you have your favorite tools you see as missing let us know.

Karl Marfitt13:06:08

In terms of a production-like 'self-service' (simulated/emulated?) development or test environment did you say the Wazi VTP build platform was running on commodity x86 or a real Z mainframe? I'm guessing that some/many dev/test folks may not have access to break their own real Z machine unless its a virtual one πŸ˜‰

Karl Marfitt13:06:08

In terms of a production-like 'self-service' (simulated/emulated?) development or test environment did you say the Wazi VTP build platform was running on commodity x86 or a real Z mainframe? I'm guessing that some/many dev/test folks may not have access to break their own real Z machine unless its a virtual one πŸ˜‰

Giulio Vian13:06:46

she mentioned running zOS on OpenShift

Rosalind13:06:05

it’s on x86 using a hardware emulator

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Karl Marfitt13:06:26

Thanks for confirming πŸ™‚

Rosalind13:06:37

it really is running n a container

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Rosalind13:06:42

and there is a version of the product Z Development and Test Environments that’s for Personal use. Anyone can get it. We have independent contractors getting it saying it’s about equivalent in cost to other environments.

Giulio Vian13:06:12

thanks for this content sharing version control and the pipeline is a key enabler to coordinate work on the various platforms

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM13:06:38

@rradclif the video-in-video is obscuring the detail above the Test box on your pipeline. I think I see "Galasa" but what else is stated there?

Mikko Niemi13:06:05

@rradclif Thank you for your answers.

Rosalind13:06:31

the other tool in the box are Rational Test Workbench - IBM products appear at the top Open source below. usually

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Rosalind13:06:35

Security matters for z/OS development as well - it’s something most people forget - security test should be included

Rosalind13:06:31

What open source testing tools or other tools would be helpful for the mainframe? Let me know

Pete Nuwayser - IBM13:06:06

Thank you πŸ‘

Tom Coudyzer13:06:25

Thanks a lot πŸ‘‹

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech13:06:26

@rradclif l got nothing of value but just to say l love listening to you nonetheless

Karl Marfitt13:06:16

Oooh ilities yes! This is brilliant and likely also applies to any other architecture not just Z. thinking of some/many of our midrange POWER clients that could benefit from similar approach to emulate the hardware for automating (maybe a little slower but mostly functionally valid) testing

Karl Marfitt13:06:27

thanks @rradclif great talk :)

Rosalind13:06:26

Thank you all for your questions, I will be staying on all day, and happy to answer anything that comes up.

Sandeep Joshi13:06:34

@rradclif How do you encourage mainframe devs to do unit testing? It’s quite challenging to get them agreeing to do test automation. Any pointers?

Atul Bhovan13:06:52

Since you asked, Compuware's Topaz for Total Test is at the top of my list. It is superb! https://www.compuware.com/. We have many enterprise customers getting great value. Here is one example of some real-world ROI https://resources.compuware.com/forrester_tei_topaz_for_total_test_lp

Theresa D Ramsey13:06:32

if you try any of the tools mentioned by Rosalind, we’d love to hear your feedback!

Rosalind13:06:47

The biggest problem we see is the lack of environments - with Wazi VTP we don’t need the middleware so users can actually test, and same with zUnit so they get to actually do their coding without worrying about others - this gives them a reason

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Atul Bhovan13:06:05

Thank you for showing the world that mainframe is not a mysterious box ... it can be mainstreamed into powerful automated pipelines.

John Cutler13:06:14

Hello All ... excited to answer any questions re: my talk.

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John Cutler13:06:13

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John Cutler13:06:13

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Fokko Veegens13:06:57

Chaos engineering maybe? So recognizable πŸ˜‚

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Tom Ayerst13:06:40

Project (Manager) to Product (manager) 😞

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Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx13:06:31

β€œWell oiled feature factories” βœ…

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Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx13:06:31

β€œWell oiled feature factories” βœ…

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Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech13:06:28

@john.cutler dunno if l ever said about that bank exec who mentioned you as β€œthat productivity guy on Twitter” πŸ™‚

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John Cutler13:06:48

PRODUCT-IVITY. That is hilarious.

John Cutler13:06:04

I'll take it. Incremental improvement.

John Cutler13:06:21

^ traditional funnel

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech13:06:16

Have you seen @mik and @genek101 with Carlota Perez earlier? You’re like she β€œmanifested you”

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations13:06:23

β€œeverything is the business” < would that make a good tattoo?

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Craig Cook - IBM13:06:07

Experiences as an outcome. I really want to see that.

John Cutler13:06:46

Imagine a bank and its "products" @cncook001 ... vs. how you experience your bank

Craig Cook - IBM13:06:52

Actually, that sounds like Design Thinking

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations13:06:48

I like the praise for healthy tension. Too often people think good collaboration means that everyone gets along all the time and there’s never any friction.

Craig Cook - IBM13:06:37

We have a SVP who challenges us to inject healthy tension into the system.

Craig Cook - IBM13:06:37

We have a SVP who challenges us to inject healthy tension into the system.

Joachim13:06:51

Diversify your hiring πŸ˜‰

Joachim13:06:56

I have to laugh when execs ask for healthy conflict/tension, but then they hire and promote only mini-mes.

Ann Marie Fred - IBM16:06:07

Actually, our team is one of the most diverse I’ve seen in tech in terms of gender, ethnicity and age (I’m in the group Craig’s referring to), and that’s due to focused recruiting efforts. But there’s still a fear of conflict that we always have to combat.

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Joachim17:06:52

Great to hear!

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John Cutler13:06:09

Have to make sure it doesn't end up like this ...

John Cutler13:06:25

More like this ...

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Craig Cook - IBM13:06:37

Sounds like switching to software as a service.

John Cutler13:06:01

exactly @cncook001 ... such a vital shift in thinking (and experiencing) products

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx13:06:26

This is a theme today too: products ==> services

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Li Zhu13:06:27

@john.cutler Do you consider LTV as a higher layer of customer journey?

Kasia Karpinska13:06:45

yay! being nameddropped Zendesk FTW πŸ˜‰

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Craig Cook - IBM13:06:05

IBM is moving towards offering software as a service. It's not easy.

John Cutler13:06:21

@li11.zhu customer journey over time ....

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Theresa D Ramsey13:06:01

the user needs (Jobs to be Done) don’t change, the features / technology changes over time

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Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx13:06:19

Apple isn’t selling me a single iPhone - they’re selling me a hook into the Apple ecosystem.

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Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx13:06:19

Apple isn’t selling me a single iPhone - they’re selling me a hook into the Apple ecosystem.

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Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect13:06:52

more like a bear trap πŸ™‚

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations13:06:38

I also really like the idea of trying to take your customer up the ladder to greater and greater value.

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John Cutler13:06:20

@jtf ...

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John Cutler13:06:20

@jtf ...

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Tom Coudyzer13:06:05

me &gt; starts to πŸ‘ already, you got me to an aha moment

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John Cutler13:06:07

(sorry about live-imaging the talk ... I opted for mostly video)

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John Cutler13:06:07

(sorry about live-imaging the talk ... I opted for mostly video)

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations13:06:32

it is actually a clever idea, put the slides in the slack channel!

Tom Ayerst13:06:56

This works well for me!

RenΓ© Lippert13:06:20

Is there a chance to compile the pictures in an accompanieing pdf. Than it is perfect. @john.cutler

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Richard Herrett13:06:38

I like this as I'm watching live... not so easy if watching again at a later time

John Cutler13:06:28

Agreed @richard.herrett

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations13:06:36

I’ll have to come back and re-scroll through the Slack channel. πŸ™‚

Theresa D Ramsey13:06:38

@john.cutler so many great quotes in your talk. Will be listening to it again.

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Giulio Vian13:06:00

love this > are you learning as fast as you are shipping?

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Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech13:06:13

β€œPeople buy on features but renew on outcomes” is the new β€œAdoption is Vanity, Retention is Sanity”

Theresa D Ramsey13:06:46

you can go fast, in the wrong direction πŸ™‚

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John Cutler13:06:15

in terms of devops "investment" .... are you completing feedback loops

John Cutler13:06:21

or just fueling the feature factory

Theresa D Ramsey13:06:42

β€œYour product will end up as a mishmash of ideas if you aren’t learning fast enough” (semi-quote) …so true

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems13:06:43

This is helpful expectations setting towards the end of the conference when I'm doing more comparison and seeing the bad spot we are in.

Li Zhu13:06:49

DevOps Community (maybe) focused a lot on delivering fast, yet less on delivering what is right.

Li Zhu13:06:49

DevOps Community (maybe) focused a lot on delivering fast, yet less on delivering what is right.

Richard Herrett13:06:08

but... you'll only get it "right" for a small moment in time

Theresa D Ramsey13:06:11

I was thinking about how we could bring in user metrics - NPS, user satisfaction, revenue, etc - along with more common metrics, like build success, etc

Li Zhu13:06:07

True, to get fast customer feedback by deliver small and fast is important. Yet get to know who are the customers or what values they may want is equally important.

Li Zhu13:06:06

My point is we need to find a way to fasten the value discovery process.

Li Zhu13:06:14

@john.cutler Have you happened to know any kinds of technologies or tech practices which helps?

John Cutler13:06:33

enable rapid feecback, product analytics, and zeroing in on measuring moments of customer value exchange

John Cutler13:06:21

"The mess" ...

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx13:06:08

β€œWhat works doesn’t look like work” :)

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Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx13:06:30

Would love to chat about how this is hard on a trading platform!

Arnab Nandi13:06:39

πŸ‘ Brilliant talk! Thank you

Ciaran Byrne13:06:40

Thank you @john.cutler πŸ‘πŸ‘

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Tom Coudyzer13:06:50

πŸ‘‹Thank you so much, brilliant, great insights!

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations13:06:58

Thanks for the talk @john.cutler! I’m sure to be quoting it to the team I’m working with.

John Cutler13:06:11

Thanks all. Always happy to chat ... either Twitter or <mailto:john.cutler@amplitude.com|john.cutler@amplitude.com> . Whatever works.

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Jennifer Velasquez13:06:21

@john.cutler not implying it’s not for everyone but I do think that there is a profile of a customer that would be more β€œready” to make this transition. Have you captured that profile or guidelines for moving organizations in this direction? I’ll be relistening in case joining late is my issue.

Michael Kalbermatter13:06:05

@john.cutler Loved your talk! Thx a lot! It’s so true what you said. 😊

John Cutler13:06:15

@jen ... in my experience, the competitive landscape is "pushing" people towards the transition whether they embrace or not.

John Cutler13:06:23

It is very challenging.

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John Cutler13:06:50

Consider even recent global events

Jennifer Velasquez13:06:21

So it becomes a necessary evil if you will from the company perspective. Expect a swell with time

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect13:06:48

any chance of spinning up a Q&A with you @john.cutler during this 6:50-8:00 (PT) / 1450-1600 BST time chunk?

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect13:06:48

any chance of spinning up a Q&A with you @john.cutler during this 6:50-8:00 (PT) / 1450-1600 BST time chunk?

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect13:06:37

@jessicam can you help? (if John is willing and available) ^^

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect13:06:57

ah, yes, sorry for the wrong TZ reference above

John Cutler13:06:34

I'd be happy to do one now. I would need to relocate away from my 2yo who is knocking on my computer to get YouTube going.

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Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect13:06:07

I pinged @jessicam who has been ringleading some earlier this week

John Cutler13:06:26

Soonish would be better as I have a workshop to lead starting at 8AM pacific

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)13:06:36

@john.cutler Sure! Do you have a zoom/meeting link you could share? Ours are tied up in network. You can go ahead and post in this channel!

John Cutler13:06:59

ok, give me a moment. diaper change, and then all systems go

John Cutler13:06:14

not my diaper

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Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect13:06:28

I'm happy to volunteer a zoom link - John can deal w/ the family issue

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Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)13:06:28

<!here> πŸ‘†Join John Cutler for follow-up Q&A (thank you @kboth_does!)

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Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect14:06:05

A note to everyone who might be interested in the current live Q&A with @john.cutler - in order to give him a break before another commitment, we'll end the Q&A at 15:30 BST.

John Cutler14:06:45

Thanks @kboth_does

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John Cutler14:06:45

Thanks @kboth_does

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Jeannette Monroy16:06:42

Thanks was fantastic!

Jeannette Monroy16:06:55

It was fantastic!