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📣 Coming up after the break, the team from Sainsbury's - @nick.poulten @edwardcarr @stuart.richards !
Hey all, welcome to those of you joining @edwardcarr, @nick.poulten and I to hear about the Sainsbury's Story - all 3 of us are here ready to answer any questions.... thank you!
Hi everyone - hope you enjoy the talk - we're looking forward to hearing any questions you have 👂
They were aligned to the non-tech divisions. So The Logisitics Product Family or the Supply Chain Product Family. Each Product Family then owns the software products which are required to deliver the business capability that the aligned division is responsible for.
It's about as close an alignment as we were able to do at the time. I think for our business the flow of value actually cuts across the business divisions. So true value stream alignment would require a reorganisation of the entire company.
LOVE the Culture Code and, of course, Amy Edmondson - read it and then do it!
Indeed, I like the contrast in the phrasing “Inviting vs inflicting change”
inviting over inflicting is so important to remember, it's so easy to forget and take the shorter, easier path but that path is likely to take you in the wrong direction
"Multidisciplinary teams for investment" "Quarterly outcomes" "Review progress on outcomes" "350 papers to 32" "More strategic conversation" Pivot
Re "invite vs inflict", I think most leaders have a default setting for making change happen. The leaders you want know which of these levers to pull depending on context....
That change has been a massive unlocker of value for us. Seeing high performing teams disbanded at the end of a project was just such waste.
When Joshua Arnold, Allan Kelly, and I first started talking about https://twitter.com/joshuajames/status/341152035716071424, I referenced this explosion by Allan Kelly on project funded teams https://www.allankellyassociates.co.uk/archives/690/corporate-psychopathy/
Interested to understand how future cashflows are estimated 🙂
Depends on the initiative. Each piece of work we take on has a finance partner who helps to create a financial assessment - what do we predict the 'hard' benefit will be of doing this piece of work. That might come from cost savings, increased revenue etc. We can then compare the prediction to the realised benefit as the work is delivered. (obviously the trick is to do this at the right level of granularity. Initiatives can't be too big or too small).
Interesting. With a link to OKRs? (where the KRs might include cost or revenue as a lagging indicator)?
I asked a finance person and they sent me this https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/032615/what-formula-calculating-net-present-value-npv.asp
we'd like to say it's linked to OKRs however we're not as disciplined as we need to be with those IMHO
Thanks 🙂 I'm familiar with how to PV future cashflows, curious as to the prediction of future cashflows
I think you guys are on the right track with e2e PLM! Value Stream thinking - Unified, but connected experiences by persona across the Value Chain
Just curious about the E2E PLM... would you still segregrate Business and Tech or bring it together?
At the moment we're just in Tech however will need to see what this move takes us and who knows what the future holds....
👍 thanks for the clarity... that is definitely a further step and one that is largely left separate in other organisations
We're working towards enabling more collaboration between business and tech. My personal vision would be that eventually tech gets embedded into the business... But that can only happen when Tech is able to thrive in a distributed environment. Mature Communities of Practice etc. I don't think we're quite ready for that yet.
No question that a few years back Tech at Sainsbury's were seen as holding things back and the last to move with the times; now, we are leading the way on org iteration, op model change and cost optimisation - from back of the pack to the front, so I think we're well placed to try and take some of these principles outside of Tech
Not a collection of individuals - collective connection and effort creates strength, even when the team is facing challenges and falls backwards
Great talk, thanks. We collect data from some of your fleets - and insert them into a DevOps style operated landscape... 🙂 Love to know, that on the other end also some cool guys are available.
Thanks @stuart.richards @nick.poulten @edwardcarr that was great!
Inspirational & Thought-provoking talk 😄 Thank you @edwardcarr @nick.poulten @stuart.richards
Leadership and grassroots bottom up - the sandwich of transformation.
Thank you to the Sainsbury's team!! 📣 Next, we hear more from Nationwide Building Society with @sarah.sambidge @zsolt.berend and @paul.blackler !!
Hi @davidorsi72 great to see you, hope you are enjoying the summit 🙂
looking forward to this one..... i'm not bias at all 🙂
I see alot of Silos, where they want to share, or even think that they have shared, but clearly don't know how
yes, this resonates with my experiences, without collaboration platforms it is hard to share outside the bubbles
or too many collaboration platforms, people do not know which one to use for what!
open space, CoPs, conferences and wow awards help connecting the disconnected information and learning bubbles
We we asked the teams if they would like a trophy - bearing in mind the remote working environment It was so lovely to hear the teams say they would like one so we organised delivery to homes 😊
The challenge for us all is to take what we’ve learnt from COVID into the future. There wouldn’t have been a case for laptops to wfh.
Very true David. In the award winner's story it helped to accelerate a cultural journey they were already on. Some very relevant lessons (providing we truly reflect on them) from Covid on how we come together to make bolder change 🙂
I've seen some great examples of how covid helped focus the mind. Things like payment holidays, bounceback loans were implemented very quickly because people were focussed on a clear outcome and not working on multiple priorities. WiP was limited.
never waste a good crisis 🙂
it's great to hear all the perspective on the awards. It seems like it was extremely successful
When we first thought about it we honestly didn’t know whether we would even get entries in double figures! Zsolt and I had a little sweep stake and we were both way under with our guesses 😊
📣 Let's get ready to welcome @simon.skelton and @steve.smith, here to talk about Operability at John Lewis & Partners!
Hello everyone! 👋. Hope you're enjoying the conference. We have a great story to share with you, all about http://www.johnlewis.com
I'm here, just watching the end of @corey saying all the things I like to say about Kubernetes, Tenzu, and multi-cloud... but with muzak :thinking_face:
@tim.wyatt You're right. Working at John Lewis & Partners was a great experience for me. @simon.skelton and his peers weren't afraid to challenge norms. When we adopted You Build It You Run It, it was informed by past experiences at John Lewis & Partners - not just theory
Hey @simon.skelton - this is impressive stuff - what were leading indicators you monitored and how did you visualize them?
Ah, I cannot give away the plot too early... listen on!
Please hold @patrick.anderson 😆 , we'll come back to this thread if you wish - in about 10 mins
Thanks @patrick.anderson, a lot of thought has gone into it. We don't mention in the talk that we also track the time it takes to complete an improvement task from a post-incident review or Chaos Day. That's a trailing indicator from an incident but we also treat it as a leading indicator of adaptive capacity for future incident management
I wrote a general blog on the topic a while ago - https://www.stevesmith.tech/blog/operability-measures/
At John Lewis - how do you ensure end to end quality for the valuestream when you have product teams focused on search, catalog, etc?
do you have a product owner that goes from search all the way to shipment?
@steve.smith @simon.skelton - happy to follow up after the conference as well
We have Product Owners for different areas such as Search, but they are part of a Product Domain, with an overarching Product Manager too.
Each Product team also has OKRs which filter up into high level OKR's
Are you using something associated with a perfect digital order as the top most OKR?
We wouldn't have that but something Net Promotor Score related.
very interesting 🙏 , how do you incorporate the "voice of the consumer" into your OKRs?
The majority of our features are run as A/B test experiments and therefore we can see if customers like them, but as part of that experiment we also take inputs from any customer feedback too.
awesome! Great story and congrats on the hard work / success thus far
@nasello.scott thanks! I've seen Nike present previously and been inspired by that, so I think sharing what works well, and what doesn't, is really important, so thanks to you too!!
I'll probably follow up with you all after the conference
are your Incident Manager part of the Product domains or are they a seperate team
Incident Managers are part of a separate Service Management team, but they are just there to provide support to those on call by managing Incident Comms and ensuring other teams outside Digital are called in if required.
so Service Management is outside the products? We currently try to integrate this as well on a product level. So that are close to the products. There responsiblity is as well the comms and coordination only
I agree that's a great way to go. We've just had a reorg which established a new Service Management function with a 3d party, so one of our current priorities is working with them to bring Service Management much closer into the Digital Product teams.
So yes, Service Management is outside Products at the moment!
We had the same discussion if we go with a separate team or not. We now decided to do have them to the product team, let's see how this works out 🙂
I think the main thing is to try it and learn from it! Every organisation has multiple factors which influence what will, or will not, work well, so I don't think there's one perfect template that will work for everyone. I'll be very interest to hear how it works out for you! 🤞
Happy to share it! If it works out then it is definitely an option for a talk next year 🙂
I'll definitely look forward to that! It's great to see how each organisation is continuing on it's journey! The TUI talk was great yesterday!
@jonathansmart1 It's always an interesting thing to balance the level of insurance we want, but we'll always keep this under review and continue to adapt as necessary. Fortunately at the moment we're not seeing many major incidents which means we get more challenge as to whether a call rota is required, but that's a good problem to have!
@jonathansmart1 who doesn't! I'd say the PlayStation 5 launch is a good example! 😂
Any intentionally planned Chaos Days without telling anyone?!
At the moment real Chaos Days are all planned and communicated, however we're starting to give less and less information/notification about them, but we need to balance not impacting teams plans too much!
@christian.lefevre We certainly knew PS5 was being launched, but we were not expecting 25x our highest Black Friday peak!!
Love the approach to learning, without that performance can't be sustained
I forgot to mention in the voice over that you cannot please all the people all the time i.e. Boris and his partner!
Hi all, I hope you enjoyed our presentation, and we'd love for some of you to join us on our journey at John Lewis Partnership, so you can find latest roles on: https://www.jlpjobs.com/head-office/it/ Some of the current roles are: • https://www.jlpjobs.com/search-jobs/senior-cloud-platform-engineer-20279/ • https://www.jlpjobs.com/search-jobs/senior-front-end-software-engineer-20287/ • https://www.jlpjobs.com/search-jobs/senior-java-software-engineer-20317/ • https://www.jlpjobs.com/search-jobs/senior-data-scientist-22285/
Great talk and progress at JLP, thanks @simon.skelton and @steve.smith! I try to buy from JLP ahead of Amazon when I can
I just bought a new sofa from http://www.johnlewis.com, @simon.skelton is always watching 🙂
@simon.skelton if I give you some feedback now, could you get it live before 5pm? (kidding!) 🙂
@jonathansmart1 we'll that would be possible but I'm not sure our Product Owners would prioritise your request! 😄
📣 We are so excited to welcome back to the DOES "stage", @lucasc5 , @lewir7 and @culpe2!
great talk 👏 @simon.skelton @steve.smith
super interesting. As I'm listening, I am thinking about the benefit/value of tracking/monitoring risk with the Viz tool (#project-to-product)
@lewir7 How long did it take for teams to implement the automated test/review?
Hi Andy! We have 100s of build teams across our organization, so it ultimately depends on the maturity of the team and complexity of the test.
Is there a single automated deployment system or multiple? We have multiple, and our external auditors are expecting to test the configurations of the systems that enforce the criteria as well as user access to modify those configurations. Do you do configuration and access testing on the automated control systems?
If we were testing those during an audit, we would look at testing those configurations.
Are the automated testing results attached or linked to the story? Another struggle is to find/prove testing when it isn't linked.
For more mature systems, yes, that's something that we would expect to see that! Our Partners and Beyond team have a really great pipeline that checks for Jira progress, automated tests had a passing score, and Github PR approvals were manually done.
The Git PR approval functions as real eyes-on-code peer review and using the time to upskill and rope other resources into the story.
How do you address the risk of someone who have production access to bypass the automated deployment process?
We would look to see what other mitigating controls are in place. For example, is there monitoring or a review to identify instances where the automated deployment process has been bypassed?
This might be too AWS specific, but would something like CloudTrail fill that gap with logs about who used their credentials to do what?
That could be one solution. Keeping in mind that logging alone is not a control. There needs to be a review or monitoring of the logs.
Fair enough! But monitoring who accesses does not guarantee that this group of privileged users is not actually bypassing the process, right? In teams where we have more and more users in this scenario that navigate between development (pipe as a code and support to devs) and production, the review of this ammount of logs is not a simple question.
Hi, @lucasc5 and @lewir7! Thank you so much for allowing us to air your talk yesterday — everyone loved it! Two friends of mine would love to meet you! @cornelia is on the DOES programming committee and just gave a talk on GitOps, and would love to talk with you! She is awesome!
@genek it was our pleasure! We'd love to connect with @cornelia!
And my good friend and co-author @jwillis has been doing a ton of work on “automated governance” which was a Forum topic for 2 years, imagining (and even building) what the ideal governance and control environment would look like — @john_z_rzeszotarski at PNC Bank has even parts of it running in production. I know they’d love to talk with you, as well!
Excellent! Looking forward to connecting with @jwillis and @john_z_rzeszotarski!
In fact, we are getting close o being code complete if the second version of the 2019 DAG paper as part of the 2021 Forum Papers.
We are looking at starting a working group to discuss this under the DevOps Mutalization SIG in FINOS https://landscape.finos.org/?selected=dev-ops-mutualization
I could not make it to this talk and I will try to catch up but its so interesting to see this work.
I am not sure where we are at in my team. We started some work towards continuous compliance and governance and would love to learn more and exchange notes
Here is the collection of all the reference links that were shared / discussed during the #DOES21 event. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/devops-enterprise-summit-2021-reference-links-minus-books-pareek Enjoy Reading 🙂