Hey. I am so sorry this got missed yesterday (wrangling the threads was challenging, I had no idea we'd be so in demand)... I'd be happy to walk you through the specifics of our approach if that would be helpful.. it's easier with a picture... let me know and we can connect... otherwise I can try and write it up for you..

That's a cool thing with our enabling platforms, What Fernando and Daniel were describing 🙂 It's possible to take SE practices and apply them to DWH topic. Reliably and in a short time frame

Oh, yes! First time to see those charts was sooo inspiring!

You see, we took a lot of inspiration from your work @genek 🙂 Especially the Accelerate!

That was super cool — congrats on blazing the trail here!!!

Not all changes are big changes. The problem that without proper CICD - all big and small changes - are just changes.

need review, CAB, you name it.

with CICD implemented - small changes are going extra fast

@jeff.gallimore, also the scope of testing matters and its speed. We use now auto-scaling k8s cluster to run the CI. Maybe sounds crazy, but it allows to test the whole data model of the complete datawarehouse with all its dependencies on within 5 mins. On every commit - before a change hits the database. So some bigger model changes and KPI logic is validated by CI. The teams have good visibility on the impact.

Merging domain knowledges - diversity matters. We were very lucky to have a small team with diverse backgrounds to come up with the software models of doing things which would work in datawarehouse environment.

Yeah, we had some experiments on this. But the main topic- get acceptance and adoption actually led the way. With native SQL in the core - the onboarding time is super fast. We had to explain git, pull requests, CI and that's all.

excellent perspective.

Thank you! And it paid off

yes, the journey to resilience 🙂

@jeff.gallimore Yes, but that's a 2nd one 🙂 Original is https://martinfowler.com/articles/data-monolith-to-mesh.html

Thank you Gene! I hoped that deep dive to the specific practices would be more interesting than the high-level messages

So needed — so many of the “MLOps” talks from the cloud vendors leave much to be desired. 🙂

Super cool that you get to meet so many interesting new people in your role

We need a separate channel for COVID-related decompressing and venting

I feel sorry for everyone working during Covid full stop. And those not working too. Hells everyone

True but job security is a special type of hell I don't ever want to ever experience

Or not working, as companies shed staff to reduce expenses...

loosing 98% turnover makes you think about what you can realize with near nothing 😅

I'm quite sure it sharpens the mind and focus

Amazing. 🤯

Yeah the whole "Constraints breed creativity" idiom comes into full play

tell me more about this UHR...

@lisa.dahms ❤️ bringing the magic!

yes we heard that we are lucky. But for us it feels normal 😄

Well very long story but having HR that even works with DevOps is painfully uncommon

❤️

to be honest, nothing else makes sense so we alsways wonder that it comes so surprising to others 🙂

How is HR integrated into the delivery teams/value stream?

Totally right Lisa, nothing else does! Wish it were that DUH though. The amount of places where the two sides work either despite each other or actively against each other

(Seeing @me1342's, umm, disgust? of how many HR orgs work is always impressive. 😂

LOL it's not disgust, just sadness - I did an audit last week. Of 46 live hot conversations we have, 3 THREE include HR in any significant fashion

we gone to some of the available ones and added some own specific questions.

there is not one specific one. The important step was that teams takes this at their responsibility and would like to improve

One of the big ways is a async Teams channel for just general questions, additionally a core part is coming together planning some broader initiatives in bi-weekly calls

Sweet. How do you evangelize and work with the rest of the workforce?

Craig I know! That was heartbreaking. Building HumanDebt live

I can sympathize.

How did you measure the technical debt? Spreadsheet nightmare or a more convenient tool? 🙂

sure send me a DM

Yeah of course

we track it Jira and then use the same methods like for features

The key is constantly advertising that tracking it helps us get help to you quicker 🙂

who writes the stories?

@christian.rudolph what was the y axis in the tech debt graph?

So label it in Jira? Do you have a definition? Obviously different for every company but wondering if there is a generic def?

Usually the teams themselves know their own debt quite well @nickeggleston Additionally we have some global stories from things we've found across many teams 🙂

And who prioritizes work so the debt items get scheduled?

@david.zacharias we used an seperate issue type for Debt and Risk to make it visible

Got it. Thanks

@nickeggleston the Product Owners, together with the delivery (more technical) leads usually. We did do a massive campaign to increase awareness around the topic though, that graph was part of it!

@richjordanswindon that was number of Jira tickets

Brill, thankyou

Currently, we are using the pipes, we have define controls of technical debts, and implement break the builds with sonar. Also the technical are track in Jira using custom fields of type of change technical debts in the client we work

Also we are working implementing security break the build the same as sonar for sast analysis

If it can works for somebody 🤙:skin-tone-2:

All day 🙂 It helps if you know the talk... but it's so difficult for me to wrap my head around some of these talks

Problem of everything being synchronous in virtual event. For Physical events you watch listen then talk after here it all happens at the same time

Super hard when the talk is introducing something novel

it makes me extra crazy trying to process it all hehe

helps to go full screen and ignore the chat when you need to

That's when the FOMO turns up 😅 The talk I can rewatch, the chat I can't replay

Well I have the talk on the TV and chat on the computer, but still my mental attention seems to be limited. I need more mental thread concurrency.

FOMO hell yeah and it gets so much worse with 4 tracks simultaneously...

Or all the virtual coffee topics

I don't think thats always possible hence have to stop one and focus

Or the BoF groups at the same time

After the conference, I want to prototype playing videos, with slack replay happening on the side.

Similar to twitch VoDs? Where the chat is just flowing as it was? :thinking_face: Could be super cool

@robertso in person, I find it hard to find people to talk to afterwards from the huge crowd...

It would be super cool to be able to tag threads in the chat to particular times or time intervals in the video stream, ideally integrated with a caption stream. There's clearly a gap here where we could make much improvement with focused experiments.

Pretty sure that there is a market there to be captured by something similar to twitch/youtube - just the infrastructure reqs are huge

I still have the sense that the gaming community has a lot to teach us about remote distributed focused interaction.

That's my roots 🙂 There is a lot of things that I've learned from gaming that translates!

Agree it depends on the event but I normally find there are people who group around the presenter at the end asking questions and its a case of joining that discussion or a more formal Q&A

Gaming does a lot right for example discord is still the best VOIP system I've seen Slack could learn a thing of two from them

Discord is very decent for community building, there is some other things it lacks but it does amazingly what it aims for! I've loved the original Ask the speaker sessions in the last physical events where some of the Keynote speakers would just sit there for a Q&A directly after the plenary sessions. Are they coming back when it's going physical? Or even virtually coming back? @genek

I've had some super interesting conversations around those and they really set this conference apart from others

@philipp.boeschen650 did you mean the last in-person DOES conference?

as @pieter.jordaan mentioned yesterday a crisis help massively in this 🙂

As in everyone was already panicking so made it easier to break the boat to build a better one?

yes it was a chance for us

Great example of making the most out of a crisis

thank you @adrian.jones it´s not always been easy but feedback like yours is a nice way to reflect back and be proud of what has been achieved

we done both, depending on the challenge.

That is great to hear, coaching the team and coaching the leader to coach the team can be a game changer

@philipday from a people point of view i´d say it´s like with every shift of culture - there is curiosity and excitement about it but also fear and trust in the change being good, which needs to be build over the time... i think teams are coping quite well even though cultural awareness is a key topic and certainly is another big chunk to take on next to all the business and process amendments...

As with anything there is both responses, but overall I think the change has been received positively seeing the improvements in our delivery.

@philipp.boeschen650 so true

Thanks both!

@philipday, ‘constraints’ choice is an interesting wording. Part of the motivation to move and transform is to give them more choice. Local markets have a portion of the global budget and is constraint by their local legacy systems. So the ability to progress is inherently limited. Example each market get 1m to invest in the same thing (Web). You collectively are moving forward by 1m but you spend 4m. Once you consolidate, free yourself from the tech debt you can invest 3m and collectively move forward with 3m and save 1m. The questions is therefore what ‘constraints’ exist. In practice it comes down to the mind-shift change to think global instead of local and work on a global product instead of a local product. I would argue that there is less constraints due to the unshackling of the technical constraints and freeing up “flow” back to the customer.

we started the transformation i n 2016

Yeah, thats pretty insane

I somehow read this as 58 devs released from their shackels

they where unecessary. THe gave the illusion of control, not actual control. The teams creating the applications are the ones that know the risk

Sounds like enterprise development to me. 😂

the laws controlling our benefits changes slower than the politicians

Hey this is Norway. In many cases, things seem to work quite well there 😀.

Agreed. I worked with the UK government and often releases or changes were delayed due to political speed but that didn't stop fundamental changes happening at the last minute

also. We really want to change the direction. So that we can tell the politicians what is easy and difficult

Politicians are not so interested in how you deliver, as long as you deliver.

> So that we can tell the politicians what is easy and difficult That thought is just impossible in UK civil service from what I've seen but would be a great idea

If you build up trust by having a track record of delivering, then any senior leader will trust your opinions about what is easy and difficult

You are absolutely right in that this transformation to stable funding is a challenge in the public sector where most of the funding processes is projects based, and more suitable for building offices and bridges.  This is a long political process that has implications on how the welfare state is funded, but NAV has taken a clear position: We are moving away from projects, and into product based software development and funding.

> funding processes is projects based yes, it's these sorts of things that make it hard to be agile in govt. Annual budgets. Traditional procurement. HR etc etc

yes. the further away from IT we went, the harder it was to sell speed as a success factor

Were those giving pushback not seeing the outcomes of delivering sooner?

Ah I can relate to that. I also had these discussions with business: Why do we want to even release more often? Just will create more effort for acceptance testing for us!😥

so we need to show them speed correlates with sucess, as accelerate shows

The transformation to a product organisation is not by any means done (it never will be)

Absolutely! We have a sort of “build it and they will come” mentality which is true up to a point, but leadership buy-in remains crucial.

'build it and they will come' - this can work too , but you are right, balance is everything 🙂

No worries. Thanks for clarifying, it’s good to know the source. But we are constantly ‘recycling’ and amplifying each others’ ideas in this space.

the scenius concept @genek shared in day 1 kick off 😜 , all these related ideas floating around the scene and getting amplified 👏

That’s a great example, indeed. 😂

yep, based on percentage of under represented groups. the smaller the group you can measure the better because you really want to have diversity at the team level not the org level

intersectionality important concept, and yes multiple identities are counted more than once

Great! Thanks! 🙏:skin-tone-5:

and while measuring diversity is critical, make sure you keep your teams focused on the "why", creates safe place when conversations get uncomfortable

It depends (and isn't that the answer to everything? 😆) You have the same challenge anytime you want to influence anyone about anything. Different tactics can work, and I'd be happy to discuss your specific scenario. But one idea is to appeal to their ego and show them what's in for them. Many business leaders do not actually understand the business value that diversity creates (and same with devops for yet another similarity). Surely if they knew they could unlock innovation and an incredible talent market they would, right?