Fork me on GitHub
Topo pal00:10:00

Chuck Norris

Rajat Sud (DevOps Evangelist - SBPASC, an affiliate of CareFirst) (Speaker)00:10:04

@biswanath.basu @jennifer.hansen, were you able to correlate the success in your metrics to an improved NPS as well?


Thank you,ย @jennifer.hansen, @rakesh.goyalย andย @biswanath.basu!!

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upvotepartyparrot 1
Biswanath Basu00:10:57

Many thanks Gene and everyone for inviting us:pray:

Misty (American Airlines)00:10:37

Did this hit home just a little?! ๐Ÿ™‚

Venkata L - American Airlines00:10:06

yes, I am curious to know how long their journey took.

Rakesh Goyal00:10:10

this was in total ~3 years journey

Venkata L - American Airlines00:10:17

@rakesh.goyal -that's an amazing Journey from COTS product to cloud & DevOps

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Rakesh Goyal00:10:16

Yes. It was hard to envision up front the entire journey. I have learned over the years, there needs to be a belief in the journey and you can find your way to the goals. Many hurdles come up however, if you know going forward is the only option then you always find a way. Either engineering and many times even how you envision the product itself!

Misty (American Airlines)00:10:35

@rakesh.goyal We're starting a migration off a 47 year old mainframe that's FAA certified! ๐Ÿ˜ง Thanks for inspiring us for our journey!

Rakesh Goyal00:10:29

Really small releases to learn is important! There is no release too small.

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Please welcome @eileencodes!!

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Rakesh Goyal00:10:19

Thanks for the opportunity to share our story!


OMG. Laughing at my own joke: โ€œI donโ€™t like to upgrade, because when I do, everything breaks.โ€ ๐Ÿ™‚

Istvan Bathazi00:10:45

probably getting tired... you might need a drink ๐Ÿท

Istvan Bathazi00:10:57

i saw there is an unofficial happy hour already organized ๐Ÿ™‚

Andrew Davis - AutoRABIT - DevSecOps for Salesforce00:10:35

@eileencodes the description of your session sounds like a warning against pressing that "Fork" button that GitHub makes so attractive looking

Philip Day00:10:43

Fantastic talk thanks (Capital One)! For me the success story there is based in the management attitudes: โ€ข Engineering is customer-centric and pro-collaboratoin (esp Ops & Agents) โ€ข Business and compliance sides understood engineering need for continuous flow Everything else follows.

Andy Nelson00:10:53

Hi! @eileencodes - Looking forward to it!

โค๏ธ 1

โ€œWe forked Rails and practically made our own version.โ€ (circa Rails 2, I think.)

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:33

same applies to test frameworks. always extract test framework from real tests.


PS: I still remember watching the famous DHH 15m Rails video, and how it blew my mind. I even called up a friend, and made him watch it with me. While I was on the phone. (Actually, thatโ€™s a very similar reaction I had when I saw the video of @eileencodes presenting at RailsConf last year!!! I started sending texts to @stephen within minutes!! ๐Ÿ™‚

Nick Eggleston (free radical)00:10:32

Ruby on Rails is a fun language/framework... the GIL however was not fun...

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Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:34

Ruby is still my favourite language ๐Ÿ™‚ โค๏ธ


โ€œGitHub Rails soon morphed into a parallel forkโ€ โ€”ย presumably, increasingly distant from what the rest of the universe was using.

Nick Eggleston (free radical)00:10:23

Compounding technical debt as time progressed...

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:00

this is so true, the longer you let the tech debt fester the worst it'll be


โ€œtwo years into the Rails 3 upgrade, engineers started wondering whether it was worth it after all.โ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚ (oh, it hurts!!)

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:24

hard to change when youโ€™re not feeling the pain. < one of the discussion topics at the โ€œchanging behaviorโ€ lean coffee

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)00:10:37

And when the pain hits hard


โ€œit became increasingly difficult to separate the application and the infrastructureโ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚

James Simon, FCA, Solution Architect00:10:19

Yeah usually if you are doing the wrong thing and feeling no pain, it is because it is doing push ups to hit you harder

๐Ÿ˜‚ 2

โ€œcanโ€™t Google anythingโ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚. (I told @eileencodes that in 2006, I had to write circa 2003 RSpec tests, and literally couldnโ€™t find any docs on how to do it!)

Dominic Laycock00:10:31

This is such a familiar story for (I presume) anyone that has built an application on top a framework

Andrew Davis - AutoRABIT - DevSecOps for Salesforce00:10:46

Advocates of time machines and parallel universes take note: Forking reality is just not worth the engineering effort.

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems00:10:48

Was there a specific point in time that convinced you it was time to figure out how to close the fork?

Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer00:10:37

I think I banned adding to the fork at 4.1 so that we could get off the fork. I closed it on 5.0.

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A friend told me how it felt that they were still trying to upgrade to Rails 4โ€ฆ. โ€œand then Rails 5 came outโ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:44

โ€œWhen do you feel the pain of an upgrade?โ€ โ€ข My old team (which I joined in 2006) was tied to OO-Perl and on 5.6.1 for 14 years. โ€ข We pushed through a 5.14 upgrade which ran through to the platform decomm which started 4 years ago (weโ€™re still waiting for the last application to be transformed). โ€ข 22 years. โ€ข So hard to get away from โ€œforkโ€ decisions.


โ€œIt was one of the most difficult things Iโ€™ve ever done; required focus, determinationโ€ฆโ€œ. ๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:02

"Upgrades are thankless feats of strength", this is sooo true

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Eduardo Rodrigues Semensati (Procter and Gamble)00:10:08

it looks like a SAP ERP upgrade, when you are finally done, the new version comes out ๐Ÿ˜„

James Simon, FCA, Solution Architect00:10:18

In a micro cosm of this right now, with GH Enterprise. A network error blocked upgrades, we are so far behind now, my boss is afraid of starting

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:29

โ€œthe first time in 10 yearโ€ โ— โ— โ—


โ€œit had been ten years since GitHub ran on a current version of Rails!โ€ (!!!)

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Topo pal00:10:45

10 years of technical debt!!!!

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)00:10:51

Isn't it funny how "we" are always smarter than "them"?

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:57

(๐Ÿ˜† when we make the same comments)

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:25

I mean it's suuuch a great story, the longer you delay the upgrade the more it's going to cost you later on to do it

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Nick Eggleston (free radical)00:10:32

Staying up to date is painful, but not doing it will be multiples worse

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:36

Calling out that cost is hugely important! So hard to fight against the most recent quarterโ€™s MVP delivery valueโ€ฆ

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@eileencodes โ€”ย Iโ€™m hoping you are feeling the awe that your story is generating! ๐Ÿคž๐Ÿคž๐Ÿคž

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Denee (de-NAY) Ferguson - Director, Technology - Capital One (Speaker)00:10:03

Its situations like this where auditors can be your best friend....

Topo pal00:10:14

I am so immersed in this talk that I canโ€™t even watch slack

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โค๏ธ 2

โ€œUpgrades are not inherently riskyโ€ฆ. upgrades shouldnโ€™t be any more risky than any PR. In fact, itโ€™s DRASTICALLY MORE RISKY than NOT UPGRADING!โ€

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:55

โค๏ธ comparing upgrading to other changes

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)00:10:58

I love the reframing and perspective with this!

Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)00:10:23

I love that, โ€œwhen you donโ€™t upgrade, you lose out on good talentโ€!

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:31

We found that our legacy / technical debt slowed our skills transition. Management finally had to shoot the old platform in the head so that we could get away from that technical debt.


โ€œpeople are not learning Rails 2โ€ฆ and certainly not your weird fork.โ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

๐Ÿ˜… 2
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Andrew Davis - AutoRABIT - DevSecOps for Salesforce00:10:49

"They're not learning Rails 2.3 and they're definitely not learning your weird custom fork"

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Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)00:10:55

The โ€œitโ€™s no longer googleableโ€ has driven a bunch of stack changes weโ€™ve madeโ€ฆ

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BTW, I think โ€œgoogleableโ€ is the most amazing word every, @eileencodesโ€ฆ

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:43

aha moment: on a wardley map your aging fork is the only node moving left on the entire map

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Kurt A, Clari00:10:15

Makes me think of Ticketmaster's virtual VMS implementation to keep their code running ๐Ÿ™€

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM00:10:46

ITRev should make this video freely available the same way that newspapers provide Coronavirus coverage for free. Avoid this disease at all costs.

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)00:10:51

I cannot tell you how often I've told teams I'm not using their internally developed tool that duplicates something I can Google and buy books for.

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Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:10

I want to drop everything and go upgrade some of our many old repos


(I also remember reading somewhere about when the Go language team realized that โ€œgoโ€ is nearly ungoogleable. ๐Ÿ™‚

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)00:10:46

Exactly like Google +. GAH!!

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)00:10:13

I swear that's why it died.

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James Simon, FCA, Solution Architect00:10:42

Go sounds great whenever someone tells me about it. But in reality, I don't like it, not at all.

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)00:10:34

This is my new favorite talk about technical debt.

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โ€œAnd worst of all, if you donโ€™t upgrade, someone will propose rewriting the entire application.โ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚. So good.

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Tim Haagenson, Software Engineer, American Airlines00:10:02

That's the secret, upgrading early and often is actually the lazy approach. I like being lazy and preventing work later!

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This part of @eileencodes story is incredible โ€”ย the extent of the heroics she went through to enable upgrading safely.. I mean, holy cowโ€ฆ

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Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)00:10:51

I love the way @eileencodes just framed tech debt. Iโ€™ve noticed that our devs have increasingly started using amount of code deleted as part of tech debt work.

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)00:10:04

When I started here, I used to challenge myself to see how many LOC I could remove while adding a feature. My record was ~5000. It was a small change.


โ€œdonโ€™t just reward feature developmentโ€

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Stephen Magill [Sonatype]00:10:35

โ€œyou donโ€™t get to develop features if your foundation is crumblingโ€ so true!

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James Simon, FCA, Solution Architect00:10:36

Randomly assigning maintenance isn't a good plan?

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)00:10:39

โ€œYou donโ€™t get to develop features if your foundation is crumbling.โ€

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Istvan Bathazi00:10:45

so many extremely valuable message and lessons

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Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)00:10:56

YES, celebrate this work! I recently sent an email to are whole company on how many lines of code we deleted as part of a bigger tech debt initiative. As important to the whole company winning a big new customer or shipping some big new feature!

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:57

the duel booting CI is brilliant to ensure new code works

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:09

โ€œbut it is just a warningโ€ ๐Ÿ”ซ

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PS: another amazing thing about @eileencodes โ€”ย if I remember correctly, her first contribution was Ruby, so that deprecation warnings could be parsed in an automated manner. (Which one needs to do when you have thousands of deprecation warnings that need to be fixed.)

Dave Mangot - DevOps transformation professional00:10:29

So much pain, truth, and hope in a single talk


PPS: Congrats on your recent promotion to Principal Engineer, @eileencodes!!!

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thankyou 1
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Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)00:10:56

Oh wow, interestingly the engineer who lead our latest tech debt take down and replatforming got was promoted to Principal last week!

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:51

โค๏ธ the phrase upgrade debt

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James Simon, FCA, Solution Architect00:10:09

Forking is a terrible idea, don't do it ๐Ÿ˜„

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Topo pal00:10:13

Or โ€œUpgrade Featureโ€

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:21

if we call it branching instead of forking does that make it ok? :trollface:

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โ€œThis is for you, you technology leadersโ€ฆโ€œ.

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Andrew Davis - AutoRABIT - DevSecOps for Salesforce00:10:32

Great call out @eileencodes thanks so much!

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:49

Such a great callout to leaders and Product Ownersโ€ฆ

Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)00:10:30

YES! Talk to leaders!!!

โค๏ธ 1

โ€œStaff a team; donโ€™t rely on volunteers.โ€

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Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:21

do you staff a separate team @eileencodes or is this kind of a swarming thing that happens when upgrades are required

Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer00:10:00

Depends on the app and company. We have a team, but for Ruby 2.7 we did a swarm and updated 10 apps at once.

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:41

Interesting, in my previous employer we had a separate team to do "bug fixes and upgrades", it ended up being undesirable to work there

Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer00:10:16

We have a team that only does the github monolith. All other apps are upgraded by the team that owns them

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:20

@eileencodes is a separate team needed b/c GitHub is a monolith (still?)

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:43

asked the question same time as you already answered โœจ

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:56

that makes sense, this team is like a platform team for the monolith itself

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:43

very cool! So in a microservice world as you said, it'd be a team responsibility

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:46

I very much regret deprioritizing upgrades, literally grown once a week b/c of this ๐Ÿ˜ž

Dana Finster - Walmart InfoSec (Speaker)00:10:06

โ€œThe best time to do an upgrade is immediately โ€œ!!!!

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:45

seems like planting a tree. the best time? 100 years ago. Second best time? today.

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Andy Nelson00:10:27

theres that gardener metaphor coming back

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems00:10:36

@jtf I think I've heard you say that on a podcast before. A couple weeks ago, I was arguing with an architect about if I should be allowed to close a year long project branch we kept taking individual features from. He wanted to push it out another 2 quarters and said "tomorrow isn't always the best day to address tech debt" and I said "Yesterday was!"

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Andrew Davis - AutoRABIT - DevSecOps for Salesforce00:10:20

@eileencodes what about the "let's wait a bit and see if other people have problems with this upgrade" mindset?

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Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:06

Almost as bad. It is a conservative approach to moving forward. Kind of like standing on the breaks while going full throttle.

Istvan Bathazi00:10:10

couple year should be safe enough... and mean time fork it

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Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer00:10:22

You have more say in how that version functions if you upgrade before everyone else.

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Marc Boudreau (Enterprise Architect)00:10:59

Better yet - how about using only the oldest supported/trailing edge and upgrading then ... just as painful ;)

Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer00:10:59

If you wait and it works for everyone but you, now you have 2 problems. An upgrade and a bug that maybe is not fixable with a backport because too much time has passed

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Daniel Lemire00:10:39

I love the back in time assessment!

Dominic Laycock00:10:31

Upgrading while the whole community is going through the same process is a form of fast feedback, going through it while it is fresh in everyones mind is only going to help if you run into issues


@eileencodes: @stephen and I started generating these graphs of version migration patterns, with support from a team at Sonatype โ€”ย itโ€™s amazing to see the differences. This is Java Hibernate. Might as well be two islands, where you canโ€™t get from here to there:

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cc @tapabrata.pal ^^

Stephen Magill [Sonatype]00:10:50

New APIs often improve correctness too. โ€œoh this API is confusing and everyone misuses itโ€ <- that can get fixed in new major versions.


vs. Spring.

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Cc @stephen

Stephen Magill [Sonatype]03:10:49

Itโ€™s in the 2020 State of the Software Supply Chain Report (page 30) and was generated from data on upgrade patterns for projects in Maven Central.

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Stephen Magill [Sonatype]00:10:28

I love that Spring graph. A great visualization of everyone keeping current!


vs. Joda Time, which is like a homogenous set, where it appears one can easily go from any version to anotherโ€ฆ

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)00:10:35

Angular. We still have things frozen on Angular 1. T

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:38

Keeping up to date - Same benefits apply to vendor platforms and integrations into vendor platforms. Investing in staying current should never be viewed as โ€œexpensiveโ€ or โ€œcostlyโ€. (Minimize those costs, sure, but donโ€™t complain about effort requiredโ€ฆ)

Stephen Magill [Sonatype]00:10:36

My fervent hope is that the shift to SaaS will make this a non-issue. Every vendor product is suddenly always up to date!

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)01:10:27

Legacy world of on-prem deploys. (Monitoring systems)


โ€œGetting current seemed like an unachievable fairy taleโ€ฆโ€

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)00:10:03

Going to current Angular is as hard as going to React

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Stephen Magill [Sonatype]00:10:24

Just re-write it in Clojurescript ๐Ÿ˜‰ What do you think, @genek101?

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)00:10:14

We took a look a Clojuescript on my team, brains exploded, decided to implement Ramda and move on.

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:33

Monkey patching - The joys of dynamic languages.

Topo pal00:10:56

โ€œContinuous Upgradeโ€ - thats the term I was looking for!!!

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Adam Hawkins, SRE at Skillshare, Host00:10:03

This aligns with โ€œfluid dependenciesโ€ discussed in โ€œEvolutionary Architecturesโ€

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Roderick Randolph - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:25

Continuous upgrades!! ๐Ÿ˜

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โ€œUpgrades are easy, because weโ€™re upgrading as Rails upgradesโ€ฆ instead of waiting years.โ€

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Topo pal00:10:37


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Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:43

b/c the Continuous Upgrade feeds into the CI and then gets deployed

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:43

โ€œcontinuous upgradesโ€ - Going to have to start using that internallyโ€ฆ

Adam Hawkins, SRE at Skillshare, Host00:10:48

Itโ€™s almost like doing things in small batches works ๐Ÿ˜„

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Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:28

we do that for application features and delivery, but not for upgrades. Love how @eileencodes broke down that upgrades are not inherently more risky than app changes

Adam Hawkins, SRE at Skillshare, Host00:10:06

aye; given a sufficiently strong test suite and deployment pipeline the only risk is delaying the work which only increases batch size

Philip Day00:10:56

Deming would love this inter-org symbiosis

Adam Hawkins, SRE at Skillshare, Host00:10:57

Always look for ways to reduce your batch size

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:05

helps us keep us focused on our product

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:41

Continuous upgrades < โ€œif something is hard, do it more oftenโ€ - Kent Beck explaining Continuous Integration

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Jeff Gallimore (CTIO - Excella)00:10:14

โ€œโ€ฆso it becomes easier.โ€

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One of the many things that @eileencodes told me that blows me away: โ€œoften, devs think locally. They think theyโ€™re the only people having a problem. They donโ€™t realize that EVERY dev around the globe is having that same problem.โ€ ๐Ÿ™

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Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:19

@eileencodes do you have something to enforce the smaller teams continually upgrade their smaller services?

Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer00:10:56

Not quite but another team is working on it.

thankyou 1
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Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer00:10:27

Right now OKRs are it, but I hope that we'll have more tooling around it soon

Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer00:10:48

"Objectives and Key Results" for those who are unfamiliar with OKR

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:29

I need to read up on orgs that are doing OKRs well, we attempted it in the Canada office and it didn't go anywhere ๐Ÿ˜ž

Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:44

ultimately, I think it's b/c it wasn't actually measured and followed up on

Andrew Davis - AutoRABIT - DevSecOps for Salesforce00:10:26

This is like the ultimate argument for Trunk Based Development ... from the people who made forking a bit too easy

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Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:29

Continuous upgrades < Investment in your dependencies pays offโ€ฆ

Marc Boudreau (Enterprise Architect)00:10:39

@eileencodes - Awesome!

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โ€œif you donโ€™t like your language, change it.โ€ ๐ŸŽ‰

Tom Coudyzer00:10:50




๐Ÿ‘ 4
Dominic Laycock00:10:38

I thought that was a bit of an abrupt end ๐Ÿ˜

EmanuelMedina - Bancolombia00:10:08

hahaha, turn down the toggle feature

Istvan Bathazi00:10:13



Thank you @eileencodes!!! That was AMAZING!!!

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Ron S00:10:26

It just stopped for me.

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Istvan Bathazi00:10:34


Ron S00:10:37

"See you in person next year"


<!here> Stand by. film just barfed out of projectorโ€ฆ

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Andy Nelson00:10:43

film projector

Topo pal00:10:46

Stoppedโ€ฆ. must be the upgrade LOL

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:58

Very smart positioning Gene! That was an awesome way to end!

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Dave Fugleberg00:10:08

DOES takes ending on time seriously

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<!here> Weโ€™re loading up the Closing Remarks. Stand by.

thankyou 6
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Joseph Laihee00:10:36

How bout you just do it live? ๐Ÿ˜‰

Garrin Ball - DevOps Leader - DDMI00:10:21

that was one hell of a mic drop!

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Dave Fugleberg00:10:02

but...I AM home !!

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โ€œif you donโ€™t like your language, improve it.โ€ And here is @eileencodes first contribution to Ruby. ๐ŸŽ‰

Mark Fuller00:10:14

I keep waiting for @genek101 to hack the stream and jump in live....

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:18

me prepares for post-conference #happy-hour

Ricardo Viana00:10:23

You guys should continue presenting lectures pre-recorded with the speakers answering Slack questions live from the stage and a possible quick Q&A at the end when we do this in person (hopefully) next year. This is way to good not to do again.

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<!here> ETA 5m. (Thereโ€™s a YouTube stream we need to turn offโ€ฆ)

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Craig Cook - IBM00:10:14

I'm impressed you have an ETA.

Pete Nuwayser - IBM00:10:14

Gene are you the LNO for this incident?

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:15

A chance for everyone to add their #summit-stories

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems00:10:18

Now might be a good time to ask, how many attended this year?

Andy Burton00:10:29

4667 members of general channel. Probably a decent estimate.

Andrew Davis - AutoRABIT - DevSecOps for Salesforce04:10:07

4,667 includes attendees from all previous DOES sessions. @mvk842 how many attendees were there for this one?

Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)16:10:39

Hi @abd3721 - We had just shy of 2,000 registrants for DOES US. Not all registrants sign onto or use Slack, which I know is surprising! Weโ€™ve been using Slack at our conferences for three years (six conferences). As you can imagine, Slack traffic has increased a lot this year!

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Marc Boudreau (Enterprise Architect)00:10:25

No (obvious) major technical difficulties until the very end ...

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:44

Weโ€™re all looking forward to the published incident analysis.

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Marc Boudreau (Enterprise Architect)00:10:05

Is it fixed yet ... huh ... is it?

Brian Marshall - CarMax00:10:54

blameless postmortem afterwards

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Federico San Martin00:10:59

blameless postmortem!

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Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure00:10:14

There will be some learning from this I am sureโ€ฆ

Pete Nuwayser - IBM00:10:21

Everyone please resist the urge to run top

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:21

Here here for Gene NOT being the Incident Commander. Communicator, sure, but NOT Incident Commander ๐Ÿ˜‰

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:29

Whoโ€™s on the bridge? What did I miss?

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)00:10:32

of courseโ€ฆafter a great program. :woman-facepalming:

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Philip Day00:10:35

Amazing performance art

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Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:35

Leave the IC to work the issue!

Eduardo Rodrigues Semensati (Procter and Gamble)00:10:41

Opening talk from the next event should cover this, please (specially if next event is still virtual)

Lucas Melo (American Airlines Architect)00:10:53

Can I get an update?!

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM00:10:19


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Misty (American Airlines)00:10:34

Now that's just funny!

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems00:10:24

I like to think Patrick is too humble to be recognized and stopped the stream himself

๐Ÿ˜† 1
Julien Godin-Viau00:10:34

I'm looking forward to see the incident review ๐Ÿ˜„

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Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure00:10:36

we need everyone to take there role, letโ€™s include everyone pleaseโ€ฆ

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:38

Sounds like a need for an AMA session to be called for all of the calls for an update!

Topo pal00:10:50

Ok, so who did this?

Istvan Bathazi00:10:54

perhaps closing remarks in the happy hour zoom meeting?


<!here> โ€ฆwe are attempting to load up the video on Track 1.. If youโ€™re on another track, switch to Track 1. Give us a couple of minutes to find the right files. ๐Ÿ™‚

Marc Boudreau (Enterprise Architect)00:10:57

Someone's head's going to roll for this!!!

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)00:10:04

Maybe if he had turned in those TPS reportsโ€ฆ

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Brad Nelson00:10:36

He had a meeting with the Bobs.

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Garrin Ball - DevOps Leader - DDMI00:10:10

Somebody is going to be working the weekend

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Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure00:10:12

anyone bringing doughnuts firedโ€ฆ bring croissants.

Misty (American Airlines)00:10:12

Where's @erica.morrison?!

Eduardo Rodrigues Semensati (Procter and Gamble)00:10:13

I hope @genek101 is not in the bridge. Remember the talk from @allspaw that leaders do not help as much as they think in those situations ๐Ÿ˜„

Andy Nelson00:10:18

Well they have their intro for 2021 figured out now

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]00:10:26

While we're waiting a huge thankyou to @genek101 @mvk842 @jessicam @alex @jeff.gallimore @annp @patrick.debois256 and the whole IT Rev crew for an amazing three days of learning ๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™

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thankyou 26
Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:29

best run virtual conference I've been to so far

thankyou 2
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Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:44

very impressive and lots to take back to our internally run conference

Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)00:10:16

Truly hope I get to see you in person next year, @jonathansmart1! Congrats on smashing it with your new book!

John Cutler00:10:32

JUST getting it running on the CEO's PHONE

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John Cutler00:10:40

we need a blameless retro

Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)00:10:40

Yes huge TY!!! Amazing event!!!

๐Ÿ’ฏ 6
Craig Cook - IBM00:10:40

Time to share incident horror stories while we wait.

Misty (American Airlines)00:10:17

Or our infamous 'dates'

Misty (American Airlines)00:10:48

6/9/2019 and for my team 10/9/2020


๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™ TFW outages and resulting fallout and trauma cause dates fo be memorialized.

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:01

I can see the start of the next session be the concluding moments of a Problem Incident Review. These are the things we learned last yearโ€ฆ


(โ€ฆand weโ€™re investigating a potential live optionโ€ฆ ๐Ÿ™‚ This is exciting. ๐Ÿ™‚

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)00:10:26

Pants, Gene. Pants. Thatโ€™s all I can say.

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Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure00:10:15

any good campfire stories? @cncook001 looking your wayโ€ฆ.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:57

Did I tell you about the haunted rack at our old DC?

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Craig Cook - IBM00:10:50

The one where I am a scout leader teaching a programming merit badge?

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:47

Once, there was this time, at band campโ€ฆ

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Ganga Narayanan00:10:52

Maybe this glitch was an opportunity for us to continue our fireside Slack chats!

Federico San Martin00:10:55

vote for Gene to give closing remark live on zoom

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)00:10:56

Great job @annp @annan @leahb

thankyou 4
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David Robertson00:10:57

Everybody is a comedian when it's not their neck on the chopping block.

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Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:37

it'd be strange if there wasn't a blameless postmortem lol, I certainly hope so ๐Ÿ™‚

Ricardo Viana00:10:36

Live call on Slack.....

Brian Franklin00:10:37

Normally itโ€™s all stream, no paddle. This time, no stream, and a whole gauntlet of paddles.

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Dave Fugleberg00:10:38

It's a lot more entertaining from this side of the stream...

โž• 1

For your amusement: hereโ€™s whatโ€™s happeningโ€ฆ โ€ข investigating changing HTML player โ€ข live option: Streamyard to YouTube to player โ€ข maybe even just firing up a Zoom

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Steve Jones - He/Him00:10:44

Facebook live ๐Ÿ˜‰

Joe Moretti00:10:48

Itโ€™ll melt

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Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure00:10:52

if you zoom make sure to mute everyoneโ€ฆ

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:31

I vote just the opposite, let everyone cheer like a live audience!

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:54

Iโ€™m assuming youโ€™ve been running this all off of someoneโ€™s tethered phone and just hit your monthly limit


Zoom link coming. ETA a couple of minutesโ€ฆ

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Jeff Giesen00:10:12

Zoom may just 2020 itself....


The secret: positive thinking. ๐Ÿ™‚

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)00:10:31

This is what he says about weight loss. Itโ€™s so annoying, he doesnโ€™t eat carbs for two days and loses 10lbs. Then he exclaims โ€œthe power of positive thinking is working!โ€ ๐Ÿ˜’

Michael Winslow00:10:18


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Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)00:10:30

Zoom will be a great way to finish!!


Looking for script.

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Jesse Getzie (Liatrio)00:10:03

@damon "bag of scripts"

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]00:10:23

@jeff.gallimore will write it one word ahead of you speaking it ๐Ÿ™‚

๐Ÿ˜‚ 3
Dana Finster - Walmart InfoSec (Speaker)00:10:34

paging @jeff.gallimore...

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Steve Gertz00:10:38

(and the authority to do the right thing right now)

Topo pal00:10:49

Zoom Meeting = Break Glass Approach

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations00:10:52

The good news is you know the audience is on your side

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David Roth00:10:03

if it makes you feel any better, most of the stream made it to my youtube player. Right up until Gene made his ask for help


@alex is firing up Zoom meeting. ๐Ÿ™‚

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Dave Fugleberg00:10:21


Garrin Ball - DevOps Leader - DDMI00:10:32

So weโ€™re going to do some live chaos testing of zoom? nice

โž• 1
Use other profile00:10:35 Closing remarks here!!!

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thankyou 2
Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech00:10:51

Best. DOES. Story. SO glad I didn't go to bed

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Arthur Maltson - Speaker, Distinguished Engineer at Capital One (he/him)00:10:44

great way to close off the conference haha, massive Zoom call ๐Ÿ˜„

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Brian Marshall - CarMax00:10:47

I remember a few chats last year about a well documented DR plan ๐Ÿ˜‰

Topo pal00:10:04

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)00:10:33

Youโ€™re in good company. Even I canโ€™t get in! LOL

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Dwayne Holmes00:10:05

well done @genek101

Brian Marshall - CarMax00:10:06

100 person max. bummer!

Istvan Bathazi00:10:08

lets zoom it :)

Mark Fuller00:10:14

Meeting has hit the max number of participants - please up the number!

Brian Marshall - CarMax00:10:31

Lets take this to TikTok!

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Martin (TeamForm)00:10:57

that's funny for so many reasons. #geopoliticalFun

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems00:10:05

Oracle here to save the day.

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James (TeamForm) - helping teams at scale00:10:17

Darn that Capacity Management Plan This meeting has reached a maximum of 100 participants. Please try again later. :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:


<!here> Stand by โ€”ย finding a way to create webinar.

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Scott Prugh (DOES Prog Committee)00:10:11

This is what Complex System Failure looks like...

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)00:10:28

We have the best conference attendees and speakers!!!

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James (TeamForm) - helping teams at scale00:10:48

Beer fridge still working, I can multi task

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Scott Prugh (DOES Prog Committee)00:10:51

At least you tolerate our jokes... ๐Ÿ™‚

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Dan Sloan, Cox Automotive00:10:02

What a great 3 days! Thank you to everyone for such an engaging virtual event. Loved it. Vegas 2021 (I hope!!)

Andy Burton00:10:21

sounds like a Columbia vs. Challenger comparison -- one a failure at takeoff, one a failure at landing.

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Ron S00:10:50

Just post the closing video to the library


Yeah... that's the first thing I did, was look for it there.

Nick Eggleston (free radical)00:10:03

Who is the Scribe?

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Use other profile00:10:27

<!here> closing remarks!!! (Passcode: 404510)

thankyou 2
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Brian Marshall - CarMax00:10:59

it's on like Donkey Kong!

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]00:10:55

Love in the person close!

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Joe Moretti00:10:02

Another screenshot

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Eduardo Rodrigues Semensati (Procter and Gamble)00:10:10

we can read the notes and see his thought process though haha

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David Roth00:10:11

prefer behind the scenes approach ๐Ÿ˜‰

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:30

Would love to see the post-mortem on this one!

Mark Fuller00:10:10

I hope you are recording the live version and post it too!

Scott Prugh (DOES Prog Committee)00:10:16

That was one of the unknown/unknowns we were NOT hoping for... ๐Ÿ™‚

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]00:10:05

Shallow dip into chaos, agile created Zoom webinar, to become a lean new normal? ๐Ÿ™‚

Dave Mangot - DevOps transformation professional00:10:11

Watching how the sausage is made ๐ŸŒญ

Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)00:10:23

I call that 00:19:00 outage duration. Very creative solutioning to solve the problem! Well done event staff! Kudos!

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Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)00:10:11

Huge thanks to @mvk842 and entire IT Rev team!!!!!

upvotepartyparrot 9
thankyou 5
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Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer00:10:41

thank you @mvk842 and @genek101 ๐Ÿ‘ โค๏ธ

thankyou 2
upvotepartyparrot 1
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Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure00:10:07

Jeff ๐Ÿฉ ๐Ÿšซ ๐Ÿฅ ๐Ÿ‘

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Last words when they play the cockpit tapes from the black box: โ€œGene: Thatโ€™s nothing. Watch thisโ€ฆโ€œ. [END AUDIO] h/t @jonathan_moore

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Well, you might end up with a surgically reconstructed Achilles tendon that is better than the one you had it's not all bad. ๐Ÿ˜‰

Steve Gertz00:10:15

Where's that info at again? How do we share?


weโ€™ll post them shortly. ๐Ÿ™‚

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure00:10:56

hmm, have to update the closing remarks feedbackโ€ฆ


โ€œClosing speakers did not seem organized and prepared.โ€

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Garrin Ball - DevOps Leader - DDMI01:10:17

I swear that @jeff.gallimore has a tie fighter in the background?

Dave Mangot - DevOps transformation professional01:10:21

forgot to put in the :cry-blood: emoji

Michael Winslow01:10:52


Eileen Uchitelle - eileencodes - GitHub - Principal Software Engineer01:10:05

thanks for watching and the great feedback everyone!

๐Ÿ‘ 3
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Christopher S Donahue01:10:11

Thanks everyone for another Awesome Conference!

Steve Gertz01:10:15

Thanks again for a lot of love for this conference

Istvan Bathazi01:10:19

Thank you for everyone it was great!!!๐Ÿ‘

Michael Knox (VP Ops)01:10:32

Thank you! great 3 days

Mik Kersten (Project to Product, Tasktop)01:10:41

That was great!! I think you have to do the Zoom ending every virtual event from now on ๐Ÿ™‚

thankyou 1
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Federico San Martin01:10:48

thank you so much!!! this has been absolutely amazing


Thank you, all! That was AMAZING!!! (PS: I actually like the live ending!)

๐Ÿ‘ 1
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Pete Nuwayser - IBM01:10:24

Thank you @genek101 - I thought you and your great team recovered very nicely. This was my fourth DOES and I will always remember this ending!


Well done for all and thank you!:thumbsup:


(Although, next time, letโ€™s do it in an planned way, not an unplanned way.)

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM01:10:47

Now please go buy @patrick.debois256 a nice cold one from all of us

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Philip Day01:10:31

How many attendees were there and how did it compare to London 2020 and to 2019 events?


ahhhhhh watching this now (I had to a big TO DO today) and I might just force everyone to watch @eileencodesโ€™s talk ๐Ÿ’ช


don't mind me, i'll just sit here in channel and "live tweet" all the talks as I go thru them ๐Ÿ˜‚

upvotepartyparrot 3
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Ganga Narayanan04:10:41

Please do! I plan to watch/re-watch a few over the weekend as well, and I may be checking in on the empty halls of Slack for a while as well ๐Ÿ™‚

Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)01:10:51

And then this happened when @genek101 tried to open our celebratory wine. ๐Ÿ˜ฉ๐Ÿคช๐Ÿ˜‚:woman-shrugging::skin-tone-2:

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Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)01:10:03

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Frotz Faatuai (Cisco IT - he/him)01:10:47

It does get better! Eventuallyโ€ฆ

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations01:10:14

@mvk842 Iโ€™m going to share that in the current #happy-hour zoom!

Dave Mangot - DevOps transformation professional01:10:15

I gotta say, I've opened a lot of busted corks with a screw and a pair of pliers @genek101. You're in good company. I feel @nicolefv judging me now. We are toasting you on the #happy-hour .

๐Ÿท 1

lol I usually stick with diet coke. i'm useless when I try to open wine bottles... maybe 50/50

๐ŸŽฒ 1
Dave Mangot - DevOps transformation professional01:10:54

Usually don't believe it when people give me odds, but when they come from @nicolefv... ๐Ÿ˜†

๐Ÿ˜‚ 2

I've never had to, but always wanted to try the shoe method

Ferrix Hovi - Principal Engineering Avocado - SOK (S Group)03:10:08

@genek101 @mvk842: Where is your redundant array of bottle openers?

Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution)05:10:50

Useless until we were able to get the broken corkscrew out of the cork! A fitting end to the craziness of the closing remarks. Hope you had a great experience. Tchรœss!

Ferrix Hovi - Principal Engineering Avocado - SOK (S Group)06:10:55

Still having it. The redshirts are still convening.