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2020-06-24
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Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)10:06:12

After break, welcome speaker @eleanor.taylor to Q&A!

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Ellie Taylor10:06:34

Hi everyone. Looking forward to answering any questions you may have.

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:43

@eleanor.taylor: this morning when I asked this question I was told your talk would provide the answer: https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/archives/C015DQFEGMT/p1592985583072800

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:24

@richard.james said @jtf - the role of trust and honest ‘Agile Conversations’ (honestly) play a role! Heads-up for @eleanorjtaylor talk later for more detail on Audit story”

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:33

@janet.chapman said “I recommend you listen to @eleanor.taylor later this morning as she led the work adopting Agile in Internal Audit at Nationwide. We worked closely with a coach who had developed adaptations of Agile for non-technology contexts based on scrum,”

Ellie Taylor10:06:44

I hope it does answer this question for you, but if not and you need more detail, just go ahead and ask.

Luke Rettig - Sr Director Target10:06:56

@jtf - here we are again on track 2… I’m seriously wondering what kind of profiling experiment Gene is up to :thinking_face:

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:23

It is honestly starting to look a little suspicious…

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect10:06:28

I was wondering why they didn't randomize the track assignment numbers from day to day just to have people pay attention 🙂

Patrick Debois10:06:27

trackRoulette 🙂

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Patrick Debois10:06:27

trackRoulette 🙂

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Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect10:06:18

I'll put my attention on black-even and let it ride.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:41

speaker-track-2 has been the winner so far… I think the wheel might be biased.

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect10:06:41

It's a die with 1 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 4 on the sides 😄

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Luke Rettig - Sr Director Target10:06:11

its great to see Executives at Standups (and demos)…. i encourage my leaders to do the same, as opposed to asking me for updates

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:50

“the right conversations at the right time” < I see that feedback @eleanor.taylor. how was that different than what the feedback would have been before?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:02

(or maybe I’m getting ahead of the story)

Ellie Taylor10:06:12

Occasionally we would get good feedback, but not consistently. The transparency has been great as built trust between audit team and business. You’ll see some metrics that show how well this has worked.

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Andre Lee-Moye, DZone10:06:39

May be a bit of an elementary question, but can you elaborate a little on the reason for breaking out "efficiency" into pace and flow? @eleanor.taylor

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:47

Like creating your own values, inspired by the Agile Manifesto rather than trying to cargo cult copy it.

Ellie Taylor10:06:03

Efficiency is often seen as a proxy for cheaper...wanted to shift away from that, even though it eventually does have a financial impact.

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Ellie Taylor10:06:03

Efficiency is often seen as a proxy for cheaper...wanted to shift away from that, even though it eventually does have a financial impact.

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Luke Rettig - Sr Director Target10:06:18

i like that… efficiency is often met with “whats the labor reduction/cost reduction and where is that showing up on the books” Pace and Flow doesn’t come with that connotation

Andre Lee-Moye, DZone10:06:41

Additionally, for the auditors, I'm sure efficiency = longer hours/less time, whereas pace and flow sounds more positive and leadership-inclusive, instead of finance-driven

Ellie Taylor11:06:31

Exactly that. Driving for cheaper is seen as cynical. Driving for better flow, value and pace is positively embraced.

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Richard Peplow10:06:27

@jtf I’ve been involved as an auditee in two internal audits since joining NBS a few months ago. The approach works really well and was a million miles away (thankfully) from the approach of answering a thousand questions and then hearing back months later what was wrong. The sprint and fast feedback approach was brilliant.

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:35

Love the focus on colleague engagement within IA, as well as satisfaction from those being audited

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Luke Rettig - Sr Director Target10:06:55

100% of auditees consider audits valuable 🤯… awesome!

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:25

Measurement => Insights => Action (for Happier)

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:19

Audit talking about Cynefin = priceless 🙂

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Andy Sturrock10:06:48

@eleanor.taylor you've done an amazing job here. My hypothesis is that your team understanding how "modern" teams work (by working that way yourselves) is a massive driver of your auditees valuing your input. Too often in the past auditors have been working at odds with Scrum teams by trying to force them back to old ways of working.

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Andy Sturrock10:06:52

Bring work forward = shift left audit!

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:12

An item of work ~ 0.5 day, no bigger than one day

Ellie Taylor10:06:41

It’s sounds really easy. It’s not. BUT is worth every bit of effort.

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Ellie Taylor10:06:41

It’s sounds really easy. It’s not. BUT is worth every bit of effort.

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:02

I'm sure it's not, and I'm sure it is 🙂

Joachim10:06:29

Great example for Marquet's 'Embrace the inspectors' from the viewpoint of the inspectors.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:45

IA co-locate with business!!! (pre-COVID). Transparency.

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Todd Brooks10:06:52

What electronic whiteboards do you recommend?

Colin Claverie10:06:02

Did some tea discovered scrum via your ia team ?

Andre Lee-Moye, DZone10:06:03

Great examples of implementing Agile based on the spirit and principles rather than just the practices themselves

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:13

I found it really interesting that the drop in NPS was result of increased psychological safety. Similar to the original finding of Edmondson that nurses with higher psychological safety has a higher (reported!) error rate.

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:13

I found it really interesting that the drop in NPS was result of increased psychological safety. Similar to the original finding of Edmondson that nurses with higher psychological safety has a higher (reported!) error rate.

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Ellie Taylor10:06:03

It was after reading Amy’s book that I made the connection!

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect10:06:31

Expectations have a lot to do with it as well - if you raise expectations, then people will report being more dissatisfied

Ellie Taylor11:06:44

I agree re expectations. If you’re going to measure it, you need to respond otherwise people get fed up, more quickly!

Ellie Taylor10:06:20

We’ve used simple and complex. My favourites are ideaboardz and Miro . We also created a white board in excel while we were waiting for new tooling.

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Ellie Taylor10:06:20

We’ve used simple and complex. My favourites are ideaboardz and Miro . We also created a white board in excel while we were waiting for new tooling.

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RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK10:06:45

As a recent convert (thank you @eleanor.taylor ) o can confirm that Miro is having a positive impact on a historically sceptical/scared of these topics

Gareth10:06:23

Loving the maturity of the SM role. The ideal is to move to a maturity where the team can coach themselves

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Gareth10:06:23

Loving the maturity of the SM role. The ideal is to move to a maturity where the team can coach themselves

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Ellie Taylor10:06:20

It works brilliantly - and our auditors learn though experience of new behaviours.

Gareth10:06:08

It is one of my top annoyances - people who do "Scrum by the book" which fails to realise the point of Scrum.

Ellie Taylor11:06:00

Yep, totally agree Gareth.

Gareth11:06:26

Nice use of Cynefin too - it's an awesome tool to place a team in their true habitat. It is also fun listening to non-Welsh people try to say it 😄

Ellie Taylor11:06:27

Haha...I’m originally from Pontypool! I really like Cynefin and it helped us understand our work and what we needed much better.

Gareth11:06:09

I'm Originally Llanelli. 😄

Gareth11:06:37

Have you looked at the Organic Agile work based on the Anti-Fragile theories and Cynefin?

Ellie Taylor11:06:21

Yes, looked at Organic Agile. I like it. We have some coaches at NBS that are big fans.

Gareth11:06:21

I think it is where we inevitably move as we mature as Agile organisations. Less about the framework, and more about building systems that just respond.

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK10:06:54

I think @eleanor.taylor articulation or ‘invite over inflict’ resonate incredibly well with Patrick and Janet’s keynote from earlier today

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:23

drop the jargon, keep the spirt < ❤️

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:23

drop the jargon, keep the spirt < ❤️

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Terry Akkers10:06:21

This is so true. But also difficult. A lot of people use the jargon to feel secure (or to make a point).

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:24

yes, using jargon, ceremonies, by-the-book is a way for people in a bureaucratic culture to feel safe, powerful.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:19

One size does not fit all

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Andre Lee-Moye, DZone10:06:36

@richard.james I really thought that Simon Rohrer's talk from yesterday resonated with that message too from the perspective enterprise architects and devs. Check it out if you haven't

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Andre Lee-Moye, DZone10:06:36

@richard.james I really thought that Simon Rohrer's talk from yesterday resonated with that message too from the perspective enterprise architects and devs. Check it out if you haven't

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RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK10:06:40

Ha - yes - will do...very fortunate to be connected to Simon and learn from him frequently...again, watch out for a track around Technical Excellence in @jonathansmart1 ‘s upcoming book 📖

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Andy Sturrock10:06:21

Leadership helping to "break the grass ceiling" <- my favourite phrase from last year DOES :-)

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:28

Make it safe to try < sounds like Edmondson’s “framing for learning” applied. Was Teaming a book that anyone referenced?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:28

Make it safe to try < sounds like Edmondson’s “framing for learning” applied. Was Teaming a book that anyone referenced?

Ellie Taylor11:06:23

No, but will take a look at that. Thank you.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations11:06:52

It was about how to get high performance out of ad-hoc teams, as opposed to long lived ones. It might not be relevant to your situation however the principles you were describing are echoed in the book.

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:05

"Evolution over revolution. And it's been transformational" 🙂

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK10:06:32

Geek :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing::rolling_on_the_floor_laughing::rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK10:06:57

@jtf I do think we have some great learnings we’ve leveraged from a range of authors/conferences and we are planning a Book Club based around your book too!!!!

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RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK10:06:57

@jtf I do think we have some great learnings we’ve leveraged from a range of authors/conferences and we are planning a Book Club based around your book too!!!!

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:03

sounds like you’ve invested in a culture of learning!

Andy Sturrock10:06:24

Never prejudge who will react well to new ways of working. People have always really surprised me who is enthusiastic and who not.

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Andy Sturrock10:06:24

Never prejudge who will react well to new ways of working. People have always really surprised me who is enthusiastic and who not.

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RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK10:06:02

Yeah - think that’s so true - ‘innovators’ and ‘early adopters’ come from so many varied and unexpected places - but being open with the invite and working with who turns up has a brilliant impact 🥰

Davy Kenis10:06:46

love experiments!! Still makes me remember about a quote from @mark.schwartz experiments are a mean to reduce risk of failure!

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Davy Kenis10:06:46

love experiments!! Still makes me remember about a quote from @mark.schwartz experiments are a mean to reduce risk of failure!

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RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK10:06:25

Totally agree with this - it’s fascinating to see/sense/feel the emergence of experimentation as the go-to approach here...it’s not consistent but an increasingly visible reflection of how to tackle the uncertainties

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:51

"Treat everything as an experiment"

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:09

Time for the Deming quote: “The outcome of a system is a function of the system, not the people within it.”

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:09

Time for the Deming quote: “The outcome of a system is a function of the system, not the people within it.”

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations10:06:41

… which, btw, are the magic words to summon @jwillis 😉

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]10:06:38

Note how this slide could apply across any organisation. Not just one org and not just IA

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Andy Sturrock10:06:43

Great work and great work @eleanor.taylor

Todd Brooks10:06:23

Great talk, thank you. @eleanor.taylor 👏

Ellie Taylor10:06:35

Wow, that was so nerve-racking! I agree, lessons for everywhere.

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Davy Kenis10:06:37

thx @eleanor.taylor.... my favorite take aways from this talk. The high successfull value of internal audits!

RJ - Ways of Working, Nationwide UK10:06:37

This concept of ‘having colleagues focused on WoW Enablement’ is key to our ongoing progress - joint ventures with teams and leaders who are prepared to roll-up sleeves and join the journey themselves!

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Fokko Veegens11:06:36

@rene.lippert Where/what is GDN (probably location of one of the teams)?

Fokko Veegens11:06:36

@rene.lippert Where/what is GDN (probably location of one of the teams)?

Magda Niedźwiadek11:06:04

Gdańsk, Poland 🙂

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations11:06:22

1000+ planets… and yet we can’t solve the three-body problem

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René Lippert11:06:31

Yes! sorry that is the airport code of Gdansk in Poland and FRA is the airport code of Frankfort Germany

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations11:06:19

good reminder about the problem when you have a gap between agile software development and software operations.

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Jeremy McGee11:06:06

"architecture owner" - interesting

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Jeremy McGee11:06:06

"architecture owner" - interesting

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Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx11:06:56

It’s a Disciplined Agile concept from Scott Ambler & Mark Lines

René Lippert11:06:14

Right you are Simon

René Lippert11:06:43

But we did not go the full DAD (Disciplined Agile Delivery) framework. We took what we think fits best to our needs.

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Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx11:06:33

That’s what we did at Barclays too. DAD is a v adaptive framework.

Maik Himstedt11:06:29

IT project leads apparently never die and survive every agile transformation

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Andy Sturrock11:06:55

@rene.lippert is the Arch Owner considered a member of the team? If not seems a bit like someone outside the team imposing stuff on the team.

Andy Sturrock11:06:55

@rene.lippert is the Arch Owner considered a member of the team? If not seems a bit like someone outside the team imposing stuff on the team.

René Lippert11:06:47

Yes! Clear assignment into a single team typically.

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Joachim11:06:37

Great to see that you put a technology owner (AO) aside the product owner.

René Lippert11:06:03

And this is still a point where we have to coach and foster that they are partners not competitors (what goes first into a sprint).

Joachim11:06:53

Yes, this collaboration depends on trust and that requires some time.

Andy Sturrock11:06:13

Yes agree. They need to work together. I see it as a sliding scale of responsibility of "what" mainly with the PO to "how" mainly with the AO.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx11:06:22

Where we evolved this to is that AO is the equivalent of the eXtreme Programming Coach role

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Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx11:06:41

Not a command & control architect but a coach to let the team own the architecture

Andy Sturrock11:06:43

We call the AOs "Service Owners", mainly because we modelled the whole thing in ServiceNow. With hindsight AO would have been a better term!

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx11:06:25

At one point we had additional service owner role for taking the product into operations. We decided that was bad.

Andy Sturrock11:06:37

And unfortunately naming is very important, as it gives a strong indication of the intent.

Andy Sturrock11:06:50

So if you get it wrong people misunderstand the intent 😞

Fokko Veegens11:06:51

@rene.lippert Is Macro architecture a lot about contracts between the different system components?

Fokko Veegens11:06:51

@rene.lippert Is Macro architecture a lot about contracts between the different system components?

René Lippert11:06:07

Yes! And also topics like rules and guidelines of what is in the typical tech stack. So that OPS is not overwhelmed.

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Fokko Veegens11:06:45

So what kind of freedom do teams have in terms of language/framework choices?

René Lippert11:06:50

We have a set of rules. eg. Java is the default. But if the team can reason the exception they are allowed to go with it. C++ for the numbercrunching optimizer.

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Andy Sturrock11:06:47

So "Devils's Advocate" question: If the team are running what they build, shouldn't they be free to choose the language they want?

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Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx11:06:47

There are a lot of operability challenges around being super permissive around languages

René Lippert11:06:51

Yes! That is one of our big fights.

Simon Rohrer, [Sooner Safer Happier contributor] Saxo Bank, Head of EA and DevEx11:06:19

Does it support all the libraries you want to understand vulnerabilities from?

Andy Sturrock11:06:31

Yes agree. We have a "menu" of basically Java, C# and JS and teams can choose from those pretty freely. If they want to go outside of that there's more of a conversation.

Fokko Veegens11:06:55

That's a good idea @andrew.sturrock!

Andy Sturrock11:06:45

No it really is Java. Otherwise it's too difficult for people to move between teams. Moving from OO to a functional language is a big jump. Moving from C# to Java is trivial.

Andy Sturrock11:06:54

There is no way. Just try to make the arguments.

Andy Sturrock11:06:27

Kotlin wouldn't be a problem really. I meant more if they wanted to use something like Clojure

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Fokko Veegens11:06:31

I really like the confessions the speaker makes. There is still work to do, which is the situation most of us are in 👍

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Rui Marques11:06:06

@rene.lippert your talk and journey would make a great book. Thank you for sharing your lessons so openly.

Rui Marques11:06:06

@rene.lippert your talk and journey would make a great book. Thank you for sharing your lessons so openly.

René Lippert11:06:49

Will consider to write once I find the time. Thanks!

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Stijn Claes - Nike11:06:43

Planning is your weapon to unplanned work 😎

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Maik Himstedt11:06:00

@rene.lippert Thanks for this talk

Philip Day11:06:03

Fantastic talk thanks - loved the honesty about ongoing challenges

Stijn Claes - Nike11:06:21

Thanks @rene.lippert

mohitraina11:06:44

Thanks @rene.lippert !

Dirk Dornseiff (Tasktop)11:06:44

@rene.lippert Thanks and the honest insights

Tom Coudyzer11:06:46

@rene.lippert Thank you such much, fantastic and honest talk! 👏

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Pedro Alexandre11:06:50

thanks @rene.lippert 👏

Fokko Veegens11:06:57

Thanks @rene.lippert 👍

Todd Brooks11:06:02

Thank you @rene.lippert

Yannick Muller11:06:14

Great insight about your transformation thanks

Philip Day11:06:24

I'll have to re-watch this presentation, but one question around section 3... you designed an Architecture model, then 3 quality gates before starting Agile practice... that feels a bit... waterfall? Or was it more dynamic than it looked?

Philip Day11:06:24

I'll have to re-watch this presentation, but one question around section 3... you designed an Architecture model, then 3 quality gates before starting Agile practice... that feels a bit... waterfall? Or was it more dynamic than it looked?

René Lippert11:06:19

It happened a bit in parallel. We used the quality gates to support the transition of the teams into the agile world. You could say to support the change. Each team had its own speed and challenge to undergo. So we track that by quality gates. Each team had their own set of them any by this you could measure the progress. We started in a world where everything was centralized. So decentralization was the first quality gate. Then we need all the different roles been filled with real persons. So ready for Agile was second. And the third we are still working on Getting to the new Architecture.

Joachim11:06:44

Danke!🔝

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations11:06:43

Very nice @rene.lippert. I really enjoyed the mix of what worked, the mistakes, the lessons learned, and what’s still to do. A model experience report IMHO.

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Andy Sturrock11:06:59

Thanks @rene.lippert 👏

Olivier Jacques, DXC12:06:20

Love the slide setup @corey!

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)12:06:43

@corey session airing right now on track 2!

Chris Swan12:06:34

It's so weird to see @corey not doing 'the face' that we get in every photo of him online

Tom Ayerst12:06:34

But… I still like “Turn shit off” as a thing

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect12:06:36

@corey how did you do the "talking head" transparent background for your recording?

cquinn12:06:03

“Spending a sarcastic amount of money on video equipment, recording a crappy video, and sending it to professionals who know what they’re doing.”

cquinn12:06:03

“Spending a sarcastic amount of money on video equipment, recording a crappy video, and sending it to professionals who know what they’re doing.”

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect12:06:03

I realize that sarcasm is your modus operandi, but I'm curious to know what you found to be worth said amount - did you go for a digital camera (I hear that they are much better than webcams)

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems12:06:11

Do you have examples of anywhere that has successfully tagged kubernetes in a reasonable way?

Anand12:06:29

Love this!

cquinn12:06:13

@dacahill7 A couple. It requires… work. 🙂

cquinn12:06:01

The far more common story is one of a work in progress.

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems12:06:31

Our current way is going to be Node pools, so our biggest nodes will be easy to understand but the majority will be in small nodes that we haven't been able to explain why its hard. The finance department gets frustrated that we don't want to work with them. Definitely an area my team can get better at finding ways to show

Tom Ayerst12:06:56

Storage - isn’t that Route 53?

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cquinn12:06:15

“So what are you building on Kubernetes?” “My own resume.”

cquinn12:06:15

“So what are you building on Kubernetes?” “My own resume.”

Chris Swan12:06:53

every engineers favourite language: CV++

Kurt A (Speaker) Blameless, SRE Architect12:06:43

Not to mention PDD (promotion driven development)

cquinn12:06:18

I kid, I kid. Mostly.

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Narendra12:06:36

@corey We weed automated data tiering in AWS for all storage. Just S3 has intelligent tiering AFAIK.

cquinn12:06:58

EFS does too, but it has caveats.

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Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)12:06:02

@corey is also doing Q&A after this session https://sched.co/cp4h

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cquinn12:06:10

https://www.duckbillgroup.com/aws-super-simple-storage-calculator/ may be helpful. The differences in storage pricing between different AWS services are… stark.

Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty12:06:28

OMG I love the takedown of the multi-cloud "Cloud agnostic" myth.

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Narendra12:06:21

@corey Multi-cloud sometimes is a necessity sometimes, especially when the cloud is used as the DR site for primary on-prem site given the latency requirements.

Narendra12:06:21

@corey Multi-cloud sometimes is a necessity sometimes, especially when the cloud is used as the DR site for primary on-prem site given the latency requirements.

Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty12:06:14

I would argue - its very different to have more than one cloud in an enterprise (plenty of companies have more than one database, OS, etc) than chasing this idea that any application can be deployed to any cloud at any time.

Matt Cobby (NAB)12:06:08

No, no, no. DR is the last thing you use for multi-cloud.

Matt Cobby (NAB)12:06:18

Tell the regulators.

Matt Cobby (NAB)12:06:20

Multi-cloud is the response to systemic risk when trillions of dollars ends up being managed by one cloud provider.

cquinn12:06:28

There are times it’s necessary; I don’t begrudge that any. But don’t dress it up as some kind of “best practice” that you’d be dumb to not pursue, is my contention. 🙂

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Luke12:06:04

@corey This is brilliant.

cquinn12:06:23

Thank you!

Matt Cobby (NAB)12:06:51

I'm going to show this to anyone who will listen.

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cquinn12:06:09

That’s how I feel about all of my stupid opinions!

Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems12:06:32

Within the last few months, we got a new C suite and after a handful or reorgs, I can't find anyone who cares about the bill to take ownership to figure out why. Giving that stats or the money we are blowing hasn't motivated the old stakeholders to care anymore. Do you have suggestions on what I could get their attention with?

John Boyes12:06:01

> “They are the payday lender of technical debt” :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Daniel Cahill - Engineer - Ontario Systems12:06:03

Do you have preferences between Savings Plans or Reserved Instances on what is generally more cost effective?

cquinn12:06:23

Are you sure they care? There may be something else afoot to the point where the bill isn’t actually that meaningful to the business.

cquinn12:06:39

Savings Plans unless you have a reason to go RIs instead. Better flexibility.

cquinn12:06:09

(Selling on the secondary market and capitalizing the spend are the two big exception cases. A third is “the tool we overpay for doesn’t speak Savings Plans yet” but I’m less sympathetic to that one.)

Luke12:06:25

👏 What a talk

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Ann Marie Fred - Red Hat12:06:27

Oh boy we have to follow Corey. 🙂

2
Jason Yavorska12:06:39

Awesome, thanks @corey!

Chris Swan12:06:47

Thanks @corey 👏

Yasmin Sajid12:06:50

Thank you:clap:

Divesh G12:06:54

Great talk! @corey

Tom Ayerst12:06:55

👏:skin-tone-5:

Narendra12:06:55

@corey Very nice presentation. Was extremely helpful. 👍

cquinn12:06:59

Thanks! There’s a Zoom Q&A now for those who want to hurl questions, insults, etc at me.

Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty12:06:05

My experience is that some companies (manufacturing for instance) understand the idea of variable cost utilities. E.g. electricity and water. They just did not historically put IT costs into that model. If you can talk to finance in that language; they have a toolkit to understand and manage it (maybe)

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Narendra12:06:58

I am looking at AWS cost calculator. Amazon's calculator doesn't cut it. There are some paid ones out there but basically they are fancy excel sheets with fields pre-populated.

Ulf12:06:05

I guess multi cloud is good, as long as you are using the different cloud offerings the individual have and do not have workloads that actual span different clouds ?

Craig Cook - IBM12:06:52

@patrick.debois256 Can you check track 2?

Ann Marie Fred - Red Hat12:06:55

Our video is on track 1

👍 4
thankyou 2
☝️ 2
Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)12:06:25

Dojo Consortium here!!!

🎉 2
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Ann Marie Fred - Red Hat12:06:44

The DOJO Consortium - A Living Scenius Project (US Bank, Verizon, Walmart) is on this track

Ann Marie Fred - Red Hat12:06:03

OK I guess we’ll go over to the track 1 channel this time.

Luke Rettig - Sr Director Target12:06:12

Ross and @stacielorrapeterson - miss you friends at TGT :hugging_face:

Luke Rettig - Sr Director Target12:06:12

Ross and @stacielorrapeterson - miss you friends at TGT :hugging_face:

Stacie Peterson12:06:07

Thanks! Miss you guys too!

Roger Servey12:06:20

What’s missing on the logo slide??

Roger Servey12:06:20

What’s missing on the logo slide??

Roger Servey13:06:45

Feel free to reach out and learn more

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations12:06:35

Have you captured those standard questions (and answers) in some sort of FAQ @bryan.finster?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations12:06:35

Have you captured those standard questions (and answers) in some sort of FAQ @bryan.finster?

John Willis12:06:56

Hey @bryan.finster

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John Willis12:06:56

Hey @bryan.finster

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:28

John!! I sent you an email last week. 😄

Roger Servey13:06:43

Thanks for stopping in John! Love to have you speak to the Consortium some time.

Roger Servey13:06:03

Answer: you may be... we invite you to join us

Roger Servey13:06:13

Build more awesome!

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:12

So many of my mentors in this community.

Jose Mingorance13:06:56

Proud to have our company be part of this consortium.

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:33

And everyone else we've heard from this week!!

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:40

Strength in diversity.

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Rosalind13:06:33

Have you documented the ideas for remote dojos?

Rosalind13:06:33

Have you documented the ideas for remote dojos?

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:21

We've not yet. We are still learning. We're running experiments right now at WM, but I don't have results yet.

Roger Servey13:06:49

There are regular talks on this topic, and one of our members is working on a write up

Olivier Jacques, DXC13:06:52

I have been running hybrid ones. Several full remote one are coming. I'd love to share experience.

Stacie Peterson13:06:24

My team just did a remote flash build idea! It was awesome!

JohannT13:06:48

@bryan.finster @stacielorrapeterson @roger.d.servey Johann here from Melbourne Australia. I'm an Agile / DevOps coach. Would love to bring the dojo consortium to Australia

JohannT13:06:48

@bryan.finster @stacielorrapeterson @roger.d.servey Johann here from Melbourne Australia. I'm an Agile / DevOps coach. Would love to bring the dojo consortium to Australia

Matt Cobby (NAB)13:06:13

Hi @johann.tambayah - I run the NAB Cloud Guild and we do bootcamps rather than true dojo but willing to bring the it to our shores

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:43

For sure! We have a linkedIn group and a Slack org. If you DM me your email I'll add you to Slack.

Roger Servey13:06:52

Awesome. Please contact one of us after the show and we can get you going

Stacie Peterson13:06:02

We would love love love to include Australia!

JohannT13:06:48

@matthew.cobby I was at NAB a short while back helping with lean portfolio management! We built an obeya room for the new ceo too! We should catch up some time to work on this ?

Matt Cobby (NAB)13:06:38

Happy to catch up locally, Makes the timezone a lot easirr

JohannT13:06:36

Thanks very much. @bryan.finster my email is <mailto:johann@thedeliverylead.com|johann@thedeliverylead.com>

JohannT13:06:57

I've sent a request on linked in to join the consortium

JohannT13:06:27

Thank you for the talk folks - excited to talk further!

JohannT13:06:12

received! and im in...

Olivier Jacques, DXC13:06:45

Beyond sharing knowledge, any cost 💲/ subscription to join?

Olivier Jacques, DXC13:06:45

Beyond sharing knowledge, any cost 💲/ subscription to join?

Stacie Peterson13:06:16

No cost to join!

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:16

It costs only contribution.

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Roger Servey13:06:44

Just your time 😎

Jose Mingorance13:06:21

@roger.d.servey, how are you?

Roger Servey13:06:23

Hey Jose! Safe and well! Hope you are too! Ready to build more awesome!

Matt Cobby (NAB)13:06:02

Sounds like a deal to me.

Rosalind13:06:15

Are there measures that you have seen work consistently across organizations?

Rosalind13:06:15

Are there measures that you have seen work consistently across organizations?

Roger Servey13:06:42

Yes! This topic is regularly discussed

Roger Servey13:06:56

We have many metrics that teams use

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:14

We're all pretty aligned on lead time. Most of us will be driving deploy frequency, change fail, etc.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:10

At WM we drive some of the tactical CI metrics pretty heavily as well. PR frequency, story size, etc.

Roger Servey13:06:13

Some teams use hygienist to measure the before and after affects on code, build success , Defects, etc...

Stacie Peterson13:06:14

Depends on what you want to influence, but I have a Quadrant picture I worked on years ago with metrics that are outcome based in 4 Quadrants to help balance the set of metrics for the enterprise.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:25

Yes, we track development metrics constantly while helping teams. Our Dojo is focused on improved delivery flow, so our metrics are focused on that.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations13:06:55

“you need to tailor it to why they want to change” < so important!

2
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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations13:06:07

Also like the focus on getting a shared Why

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:37

Yes, it's so important to be contextual to the team's need.

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:56

Really requires mentally flexible coaches.

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1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations13:06:14

“there’s no tides in ponds” < 😆

Jose Mingorance13:06:33

We are currently using DOJOs to help teams adopt BDD, TDD, Paring/Mobbing, Product Management (Story Mapping, Sample Mappings, etc), C4 models, etc. All together as a squad which helps with team empathy for each others roles.

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Jose Mingorance13:06:33

We are currently using DOJOs to help teams adopt BDD, TDD, Paring/Mobbing, Product Management (Story Mapping, Sample Mappings, etc), C4 models, etc. All together as a squad which helps with team empathy for each others roles.

👍 2
Stacie Peterson13:06:38

That’s so cool! I love the empathy for each other part and blurring the roles lines!

❤️ 1
Matt Cobby (NAB)13:06:51

What format does that take? Physical (pre-coivd)? How long?

Jose Mingorance13:06:10

We started physical but have moved to virtual using MS Teams, Mural, and Whiteboard, in addition to our standard tool set of Jira, Confluence

Stacie Peterson13:06:17

@matthew.cobby we had physical Dojo’s before COVID at Target and similar at US Bank that teams both permanently sat in or rotations of several weeks in and out. We used the new space remodeled for agile teams as a test at first, over cubicles and then teams just stay there and we remodel a new space for the next teams coming in. Now post covid everyone is remote and using video conf and tools like Mural, Teams, etc. I can tell you more if your interested to get together

Matt Cobby (NAB)13:06:30

That would be great, thanks @stacielorrapeterson. We've been solving a very different problem but I feel that we are at an inflection point.

Jose Mingorance13:06:09

Well done @stacielorrapeterson, @roger.d.servey & @bryan.finster.

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😋 1
Matt Cobby (NAB)13:06:27

How has everyone found the switch to virtual? We had a rough start but I think we are stronger than before

Matt Cobby (NAB)13:06:27

How has everyone found the switch to virtual? We had a rough start but I think we are stronger than before

Roger Servey13:06:41

It’s been a big change. Seminole. We have had many talks as all members pivot to the virtual dojo

Olivier Jacques, DXC13:06:44

Big time! Now, virtual workshops / Dojos are harder to get right.

Roger Servey13:06:22

We had members in the vanguard and doing this prior who brought their lessons and helped so many of us doing this important immersive learning

Jose Mingorance13:06:57

We moved to a virtual setting due to COVID, using tech like MS Teams, Whiteboard, & Mural.

Stacie Peterson13:06:18

We are trying to make the best of it, but I personally like being in person with a team, and having the whiteboards and the ability to be with people physically when learning. I miss it!

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:20

Walmart Tech is not remote first.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:34

So, we are adjusting rapidly.

Jose Mingorance13:06:19

We got lucky we had already invested in MS Teams for our collaboration and ChatOps. When COVID came around we did not have much of a challenge to move to virtual.

Olivier Jacques, DXC13:06:02

Regarding Dojos, do you people organize some sort of a gathering during the networking sessions? If you do, I'd love to connect

Olivier Jacques, DXC13:06:02

Regarding Dojos, do you people organize some sort of a gathering during the networking sessions? If you do, I'd love to connect

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:46

We had a meetup in the Twin Cities last year. Our meetup this year was cancelled, for obvious reasons. We have bi-weekly conference calls and are doing monthly presentations.

Olivier Jacques, DXC13:06:48

@bryan.finster @stacielorrapeterson @roger.d.servey

Olivier Jacques, DXC13:06:05

I'm asking in the context of DOES, today or next few days?

Roger Servey13:06:56

No such plans for this event, but we are intending this for Las Vegas in person this fall.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:22

No reason why we couldn't plan one though. Not like everyone is flying out tomorrow.

Matt Cobby (NAB)13:06:40

That commute upstairs at the end of the day....

Roger Servey13:06:03

Our community is growing each day. We welcome new ideas and new members to join our community and share their stories , adding to our shared strengths!

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mohitraina13:06:51

@roger.d.servey thank you for accepting my request. Looking forward to collaborate with the group.