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2022-05-10
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Slackbot11:05:04

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution11:05:00

✨ Please welcome @sesterhg, SAP DevOps SRE Engineer at AWS, here to talk about DevOps for SAP ✨

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Guilherme Sesterheim11:05:29

Good morning everyone! Thank you for attending

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Josh Aylmer11:05:09

SAP Installations can be a minefield at every turn!

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code12:05:45

@sesterhg can you share the links to the Ansible tools

Guilherme Sesterheim12:05:38

Yeah, there they are πŸŽ‰

Andrew Davis - Copado - DevOps and Testing for Low Code12:05:12

Nice job @sesterhg getting these SAP installations to work!

Guilherme Sesterheim12:05:35

Thanks Andrew! Hopefully it will be useful for many more companies to standardize their SAP work

Josh Aylmer12:05:01

Thanks for the session @sesterhg

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Vitaliy Negrichuk12:05:49

@sesterhg Thank you.

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution12:05:01

✨ A warm welcome back to @kapoor.vaidik, who will present P_ragmatic DevOps_ ✨

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:48

Thanks @annp Hello πŸ‘‹ I am so glad to be back at DOES. Thanks IT Revolution and the programming committee for the opportunity! Super excited to have conversations with you all during my session and over the next few days.

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:57

I'm curious if anyone here has tried to deploy maturity models in their environments. I would love to talk to you about your experiences and exchange notes.

Toli12:05:36

@kapoor.vaidik - love the focus on Engineering Practices! What tips and advice do you have for engaging with squads to try to understand how to help them improve their engineering practices?

Vlad Ukis12:05:39

If you can show them some data pinpointing the problems, you are more likely to do the convincing.

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:58

I agree with @vladyslav.ukis. Absolutely.

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:20

Some of it depends also on how work and adoption happens in your org. Sustaining changes happen when teams see where their bottlenecks are. So that's necessary to be able to establish. But, sometimes it might be just for you to show where the bottlenecks are. Experience does come in handy if you want to move fast and you can work with teams to see where they need to improve and get better. Not scalable but probably fast if you are looking for immediate returns.

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:50

@dev to get to a more organic way to get better at practices, figure out a way to invest in measuring how work happens (planned, unplanned, SRE, platform, devops, interrupts, etc.). And build models to surface what's okay and what's not okay for most team. and then review with them periodically. ask them questions - "how do we get better?"

Toli12:05:52

The model looks really interesting, do you have a public link to this? (we’re currently trying to codify our Engineering Practice Model with a focus on β€˜how we can help the teams’ rather than β€˜you shall do this’)

Toli12:05:31

Currently we run a DevOps Check workshop periodically with the teams that start this conversation (β€œhow do we get better?β€œ). This is very much based on value stream mapping and the Accelerate Metrics (qualitatively) but it does not help the teams enough to understand what practices they can improve or adopt to mature

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:08

@dev i have received request for that. i dont have it available right away honestly but because many people have asked for this. let me get this done during the conference and share it with you all πŸ™‚

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Florian Gysin (Adnovum, DevOps Evangelist, he/him)12:05:34

@kapoor.vaidik, would you be open to share that maturity model? I’d be quite interested in comparing it with what we have been developing. πŸ™‚

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:06

absolutely. i will have to redact a few things. Let me get back to you all with this today.

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Vlad Ukis13:05:40

Interested in your models @kapoor.vaidik and @florian.gysin!

Florian Gysin (Adnovum, DevOps Evangelist, he/him)13:05:05

Hey @vladyslav.ukis, @kapoor.vaidik, I’m happy to share what we have also. Don’t mind the format, it’s an ugly export from our Confluence where this currently lives on our end. πŸ™‚

Florian Gysin (Adnovum, DevOps Evangelist, he/him)13:05:59

Currently we do the assessments for projects/teams, which is also why this assessment is not yet very streamlined and self-explanatory… I think that is a take-away for me, to go more towards self-assessment.

Vlad Ukis13:05:07

Cool, thanks a ton!

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:35

Ah I am not sure if any of this is legible any more on the conference platform. Was when I recorded it. Apologies folks. I hope this is better in the video library.

David Hawes-Johnson (DevOps Enablement - BT)12:05:49

@kapoor.vaidik How did teams receive the use of prescriptive practices?

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:55

we built it with them. so there was a lot of converge and diverge activities we did over the course of two months to lay the foundation. tech leadership, platform engg, and senior engineers from every team were asked to contribute and review pretty much everything.

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:15

along with the commitment that we will keep revisiting these things. nothing is set in stone but lets get 80% right.

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David Hawes-Johnson (DevOps Enablement - BT)12:05:26

Thanks - that co-creation aspect seems key to this.

David Hawes-Johnson (DevOps Enablement - BT)12:05:14

I might have missed it - but how was team self-assessment completed.

David Hawes-Johnson (DevOps Enablement - BT)12:05:08

were these based on what the next maturuity model step was, or based on what they wanted to prioritise in the next interation (i.e. they could choose anything from the model to meet expectations).

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:57

@slack1599 we started off with very basic assessments initially. sort of let tech leads just look at the maturity model and do a dip-stick check of where they are and what seems like the obvious next step to improvement. subsequent assessments were more structured. so teams will look at the microservices they own and where do they stand with respect to the practices being followed in those microservices

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:52

our vision was to get to a place where part of the assessment could be done in an automated fashion by inferring from the code, repo, pipeline, infrastructure (kubernetes specs) but havent got their yet

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:29

> were these based on what the next maturuity model step was, or based on what they wanted to prioritise in the next interation (i.e. they could choose anything from the model to meet expectations). slightly more nuanced. i could not cover that. and the model right now misses some of those things but we identified it. for example, you will prioritize monitoring and resilience over continuous delivery (perhaps) if the code base of a service is rarely changed but it is still in the critical path (for example auth service)

kartik Awasthi12:05:36

@kapoor.vaidik Thanks !!, It was very informative session .

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:00

Thanks for the opportunity folks. I am hanging out here on all the days. If you want to talk engineering practices and maturity models, I'd love to exchange notes!

Shivan12:05:16

Thank you @kapoor.vaidik! Great session, lots to unpack

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:26

I'll work on making the redacted model of our maturity model public as well!

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant15:05:41

Here you go folks. Our maturity model.

Florian Gysin (Adnovum, DevOps Evangelist, he/him)12:05:18

@kapoor.vaidik, can you elaborate some more on what you meant with the β€œprescriptive” assessment/model?

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:17

"prescriptive" means not just suggesting a practice at the high-level but being more specific of what we should do as an organization and how can that be done at our company... so that the teams don't get overwhelmed with (a) researching the discipline too much (2) developing the tech solutions to adopt the practices. ...hence making it easier for teams to progress

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant12:05:05

having said that, teams who understood some of these practices or wanted to deviate from the solutions (because of their context) could do so as well

Florian Gysin (Adnovum, DevOps Evangelist, he/him)13:05:33

I see. I guess for that you need proper buy-in to actually mandate those decisions over the entire organsiation, which is not the case in my specific case (more grassroots/bottom up)

Florian Gysin (Adnovum, DevOps Evangelist, he/him)13:05:20

But I see the value of at least proposing ways forward and thus limiting the decision space

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant13:05:44

yaeh so we built the model with the grass roots. representations from all the teams - leadership, platform engineering, security, sennior engineers representing all the product engineering groups

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant13:05:00

and also some junior engineers to understand the process and for knowledge dissemination

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant13:05:14

a lot of converge and diverge over the period of a month

Florian Gysin (Adnovum, DevOps Evangelist, he/him)13:05:20

How did you do the assessments themselves? Where they done as self-assessments by the teams? Or did you do the assessment with team-external people?

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant13:05:28

devops and platform engineering laid down the foundation but most hardening was done by reps from all the teams in many iterations until we felt this is a good place to start (or rather much better than how we used to work)

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Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant13:05:53

> How did you do the assessments themselves? Where they done as self-assessments by the teams? Or did you do the assessment with team-external people? self assessments initially a couple of times. for services/components that were identified critical (mostly senior engineers from multiple teams surfaced this information), they also realized that those services need to be assessed/reviewed by their tribe's architecture steering committee and their leadership.

Vaidik Kapoor (Speaker) - Technology Consultant13:05:15

so. the process was not fully hardened. we were iterating as we went.

Florian Gysin (Adnovum, DevOps Evangelist, he/him)13:05:13

Cool. I think we should also pivot more towards self-assessment, which we are currently not doing… doesn’t scale well as it is for us now.

Martin Jainta12:05:08

Thanks for the nice session @kapoor.vaidik πŸ™

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution13:05:00

⚑ Introducing @ivannarosendal, joining us to present How We Created a Common Culture in Three Countries ⚑

Ivanna Rosendal13:05:43

I am excited to be here with you all!

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Ben Squires (HORIBA Test Automation)14:05:18

@ivannarosendal - who came up with those five values? Was it top-down or self-generated by the team?

Ivanna Rosendal14:05:58

We crowd-sourced the answer to the question "how would it feel to be part of an excellent team"

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Ivanna Rosendal14:05:30

But then the management team synthesized the answers into the principles by grouping and naming them

Ben Squires (HORIBA Test Automation)14:05:26

Ah! I know the feeling... do you think the management team step was a reason for the lack of behaviour change?

Ivanna Rosendal14:05:22

In hindsight I would have gone about it in a more inclusive way. But I think that the challenge of adoption was more because the initial values were not specific to behavior

Ivanna Rosendal14:05:56

Everyone has seen corporate values before... and mostly they are fluff no one pays much attention to

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Moira Cheng14:05:54

Know the feeling @ivannarosendal 'Ops (Maintenance) frustrated they cannot be involved early in project to prevent obvious post 'Go Live' implementation issues' πŸ™‚

Ivanna Rosendal14:05:44

Absolutely! That is a very frustrating role to put people in.

Quinn Daley14:05:32

I really love this idea of playing games to show people what life is like with and without certain values

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Philip Day14:05:03

If these results replicate, gold dust

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Ivanna Rosendal14:05:30

It was surprisingly effective to try different situation on for size before changing actual work practices

Moira Cheng14:05:10

Love this 'Standard Operating Procedure for Making Mistakes'

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Philip Day14:05:52

@ivannarosendal were these games things you invented yourselves or did you find them somewhere?

Quinn Daley14:05:19

do you think values like these need to be decided at an organisation level? or could they be decided at a lower level? heading up a discipline which sends people to multidisciplinary teams is an interesting challenge values-wise - every team has its own values and then now I’m feeling the discipline needs its own values too

Ivanna Rosendal14:05:43

I think that teams need to have their own work values at the lowest possible level. But that larger clusters of teams need to share some commonly agreed to principles

Quinn Daley14:05:01

this makes sense! thanks

Vlad Ukis15:05:12

What would be a reasonable split here? Like 70% local values and 30% global ones?

Ivanna Rosendal16:05:44

I would say that the local values should easily fold into the global ones - but can be more specific and meaningful for the individual teams

Ivanna Rosendal14:05:45

We mostly invented them ourselves. But they are inspired by concepts from others - like here inspired by research by Brene Brown, but made actionable by our simulation team

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution14:05:00

⭐ Please welcome @schaplin, presenting Securing DevOps: Where to Start and What to Measure ⭐

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Stefania Chaplin14:05:05

Hey everyone!!! Thanks for joining my session :star-struck:

Sascha SchΓ€rich (DevOps Evangelist at Deutsche Telekom IT)14:05:07

Thanks @ivannarosendal, very cool presentation. But don’t let the IT Operations people know what you have done, they will feel left out! πŸ™‚

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Ivanna Rosendal14:05:46

Haha! They were also part of the journey, and their story is worth telling. But I had to cut it somewhere πŸ™‚

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Christoph Hagedorn14:05:08

Could you please repeat, i.e. titles and ISBN, the books you mentioned?

Ivanna Rosendal14:05:42

Dare to Lead by BrenΓ© Brown

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Ivanna Rosendal14:05:35

Agile Conversations, B086CYD1KW

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Quinn Daley14:05:34

@ivannarosendal Thank you for that presentation - it was really great! Gave me lots of inspiration

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Ben Joyce14:05:40

Only caught the last 10 minutes @ivannarosendal but liked what I saw, and will watch the recording.

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER14:05:05

DevSecOps + yoga. love it.

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Stefania Chaplin14:05:12

@vmshook I spend a lot of time at surf and yoga retreats. Last summer I spent a lot of time on the beach teaching the yoga teacher about DevOps because it turns out there is a lot of similarity !! E.g. Focus & Flow, Efficiency, working together etc πŸ™‚

Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER14:05:09

ooooh! we're going to need a yoga component when we're back in session @annp - hint πŸ˜‰

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Stefania Chaplin14:05:59

I just came back from a company offsite where I did a 20 minute desk yoga and guided meditation πŸ™‚ Youtube video coming soon!!

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Ann Perry - IT Revolution14:05:08

On it!

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Erik Greathouse14:05:23

πŸ’‘ Love the idea of not just physical prizes or money. Value in peer/leadership recognition

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Stefania Chaplin14:05:36

yes!!! recognition is so important πŸ˜„ Its also worth speaking to your team, some people prefer public praise while other prefer a private recognition πŸ™‚

Richard Vodden14:05:32

Are you allowed to come to DOES if you’ve not read accelerate? πŸ™‚

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER14:05:13

yes. just have to promise to do it in a reasonable amount of time πŸ˜‰

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Robert Ruzitschka - DevOps Guild Lead14:05:43

Rhetorical:grinning: question. Is there still anybody who hasn't read it?

Stefania Chaplin14:05:28

I'll be honest.... I only read it recently πŸ™ˆ I'm so glad I did!! Also the font is quite big so it was a quick (and awesome) read πŸ˜„

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Jessica Cregg14:05:46

Love Accelerate! Do you have any other books that you think are a must-read? I remember you put me on to The Phoenix Project - love a DevStefOps recommendation

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Stefania Chaplin14:05:19

Phoenix Project & Unicorn Project are my go-tos! Currently reading 'DevSecOps' by @glenn.wilson πŸ™‚

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Virginia Laurenzano NSA/MARFORCYBER14:05:36

Make Work Visible is one I go back to a bunch, too

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Stefania Chaplin14:05:48

Ooooh I haven't read it, it keeps coming up so I'll add it to the list. Thanks @vmshook

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Jessica Cregg14:05:19

@glenn.wilson’s book is also currently on my desk!

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Jessica Cregg14:05:52

πŸ‘ πŸ‘ πŸ‘

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Stefania Chaplin14:05:39

Thank you for attending everyone !!! Feel free to pop over to #xpo-gitlab-the-one-devops-platform if you want to hear more about how to shift left and measure DORA metrics using GitLab

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Erik Greathouse14:05:41

@schaplin Thank you so much... I wish had a 100:1 ratio. I am more like 100000:1 maybe higher.

Stefania Chaplin14:05:18

It really vafies !!! The best I've seen is 1:65, the worst... 1:500 or more πŸ‘»

Clarissa Lucas, IT Audit Leader14:05:49

πŸ‘ Great presentation @schaplin

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Stefania Chaplin14:05:41

Thank you @lucasc5 great to hear you enjoyed the session πŸ™‚

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