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✨ Please welcome @sesterhg, SAP DevOps SRE Engineer at AWS, here to talk about DevOps for SAP ✨
@sesterhg can you share the links to the Ansible tools
This is the github link directly: https://github.com/aws-samples/aws-install-sap-with-jenkins-ansible
Nice job @sesterhg getting these SAP installations to work!
Thanks Andrew! Hopefully it will be useful for many more companies to standardize their SAP work
✨ A warm welcome back to @kapoor.vaidik, who will present P_ragmatic DevOps_ ✨
Thanks @annp Hello 👋 I am so glad to be back at DOES. Thanks IT Revolution and the programming committee for the opportunity! Super excited to have conversations with you all during my session and over the next few days.
I'm curious if anyone here has tried to deploy maturity models in their environments. I would love to talk to you about your experiences and exchange notes.
@kapoor.vaidik - love the focus on Engineering Practices! What tips and advice do you have for engaging with squads to try to understand how to help them improve their engineering practices?
If you can show them some data pinpointing the problems, you are more likely to do the convincing.
Some of it depends also on how work and adoption happens in your org. Sustaining changes happen when teams see where their bottlenecks are. So that's necessary to be able to establish. But, sometimes it might be just for you to show where the bottlenecks are. Experience does come in handy if you want to move fast and you can work with teams to see where they need to improve and get better. Not scalable but probably fast if you are looking for immediate returns.
@dev to get to a more organic way to get better at practices, figure out a way to invest in measuring how work happens (planned, unplanned, SRE, platform, devops, interrupts, etc.). And build models to surface what's okay and what's not okay for most team. and then review with them periodically. ask them questions - "how do we get better?"
The model looks really interesting, do you have a public link to this? (we’re currently trying to codify our Engineering Practice Model with a focus on ‘how we can help the teams’ rather than ‘you shall do this’)
Currently we run a DevOps Check workshop periodically with the teams that start this conversation (“how do we get better?“). This is very much based on value stream mapping and the Accelerate Metrics (qualitatively) but it does not help the teams enough to understand what practices they can improve or adopt to mature
@dev i have received request for that. i dont have it available right away honestly but because many people have asked for this. let me get this done during the conference and share it with you all 🙂
@kapoor.vaidik, would you be open to share that maturity model? I’d be quite interested in comparing it with what we have been developing. 🙂
absolutely. i will have to redact a few things. Let me get back to you all with this today.
Hey @vladyslav.ukis, @kapoor.vaidik, I’m happy to share what we have also. Don’t mind the format, it’s an ugly export from our Confluence where this currently lives on our end. 🙂
Currently we do the assessments for projects/teams, which is also why this assessment is not yet very streamlined and self-explanatory… I think that is a take-away for me, to go more towards self-assessment.
Here you go folks. Sharing the maturity model I covered in my talk - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g2iTst1wRU3WAivofnhBIfMOslqxdSNsUW6rEyJCR0w/edit#gid=1797617707.
Ah I am not sure if any of this is legible any more on the conference platform. Was when I recorded it. Apologies folks. I hope this is better in the video library.
@kapoor.vaidik How did teams receive the use of prescriptive practices?
we built it with them. so there was a lot of converge and diverge activities we did over the course of two months to lay the foundation. tech leadership, platform engg, and senior engineers from every team were asked to contribute and review pretty much everything.
along with the commitment that we will keep revisiting these things. nothing is set in stone but lets get 80% right.
Thanks - that co-creation aspect seems key to this.
I might have missed it - but how was team self-assessment completed.
were these based on what the next maturuity model step was, or based on what they wanted to prioritise in the next interation (i.e. they could choose anything from the model to meet expectations).
@slack1599 we started off with very basic assessments initially. sort of let tech leads just look at the maturity model and do a dip-stick check of where they are and what seems like the obvious next step to improvement. subsequent assessments were more structured. so teams will look at the microservices they own and where do they stand with respect to the practices being followed in those microservices
our vision was to get to a place where part of the assessment could be done in an automated fashion by inferring from the code, repo, pipeline, infrastructure (kubernetes specs) but havent got their yet
> were these based on what the next maturuity model step was, or based on what they wanted to prioritise in the next interation (i.e. they could choose anything from the model to meet expectations). slightly more nuanced. i could not cover that. and the model right now misses some of those things but we identified it. for example, you will prioritize monitoring and resilience over continuous delivery (perhaps) if the code base of a service is rarely changed but it is still in the critical path (for example auth service)
Thanks for the opportunity folks. I am hanging out here on all the days. If you want to talk engineering practices and maturity models, I'd love to exchange notes!
I'll work on making the redacted model of our maturity model public as well!
@kapoor.vaidik, can you elaborate some more on what you meant with the “prescriptive” assessment/model?
"prescriptive" means not just suggesting a practice at the high-level but being more specific of what we should do as an organization and how can that be done at our company... so that the teams don't get overwhelmed with (a) researching the discipline too much (2) developing the tech solutions to adopt the practices. ...hence making it easier for teams to progress
having said that, teams who understood some of these practices or wanted to deviate from the solutions (because of their context) could do so as well
I see. I guess for that you need proper buy-in to actually mandate those decisions over the entire organsiation, which is not the case in my specific case (more grassroots/bottom up)
But I see the value of at least proposing ways forward and thus limiting the decision space
yaeh so we built the model with the grass roots. representations from all the teams - leadership, platform engineering, security, sennior engineers representing all the product engineering groups
and also some junior engineers to understand the process and for knowledge dissemination
a lot of converge and diverge over the period of a month
How did you do the assessments themselves? Where they done as self-assessments by the teams? Or did you do the assessment with team-external people?
devops and platform engineering laid down the foundation but most hardening was done by reps from all the teams in many iterations until we felt this is a good place to start (or rather much better than how we used to work)
> How did you do the assessments themselves? Where they done as self-assessments by the teams? Or did you do the assessment with team-external people? self assessments initially a couple of times. for services/components that were identified critical (mostly senior engineers from multiple teams surfaced this information), they also realized that those services need to be assessed/reviewed by their tribe's architecture steering committee and their leadership.
so. the process was not fully hardened. we were iterating as we went.
Cool. I think we should also pivot more towards self-assessment, which we are currently not doing… doesn’t scale well as it is for us now.
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⚡ Introducing @ivannarosendal, joining us to present How We Created a Common Culture in Three Countries ⚡
@ivannarosendal - who came up with those five values? Was it top-down or self-generated by the team?
We crowd-sourced the answer to the question "how would it feel to be part of an excellent team"
But then the management team synthesized the answers into the principles by grouping and naming them
Ah! I know the feeling... do you think the management team step was a reason for the lack of behaviour change?
In hindsight I would have gone about it in a more inclusive way. But I think that the challenge of adoption was more because the initial values were not specific to behavior
Everyone has seen corporate values before... and mostly they are fluff no one pays much attention to
Know the feeling @ivannarosendal 'Ops (Maintenance) frustrated they cannot be involved early in project to prevent obvious post 'Go Live' implementation issues' 🙂
I really love this idea of playing games to show people what life is like with and without certain values
It was surprisingly effective to try different situation on for size before changing actual work practices
@ivannarosendal were these games things you invented yourselves or did you find them somewhere?
do you think values like these need to be decided at an organisation level? or could they be decided at a lower level? heading up a discipline which sends people to multidisciplinary teams is an interesting challenge values-wise - every team has its own values and then now I’m feeling the discipline needs its own values too
I think that teams need to have their own work values at the lowest possible level. But that larger clusters of teams need to share some commonly agreed to principles
I would say that the local values should easily fold into the global ones - but can be more specific and meaningful for the individual teams
We mostly invented them ourselves. But they are inspired by concepts from others - like here inspired by research by Brene Brown, but made actionable by our simulation team
⭐ Please welcome @schaplin, presenting Securing DevOps: Where to Start and What to Measure ⭐
Thanks @ivannarosendal, very cool presentation. But don’t let the IT Operations people know what you have done, they will feel left out! 🙂
Haha! They were also part of the journey, and their story is worth telling. But I had to cut it somewhere 🙂
@ivannarosendal Thank you for that presentation - it was really great! Gave me lots of inspiration
Only caught the last 10 minutes @ivannarosendal but liked what I saw, and will watch the recording.
@vmshook I spend a lot of time at surf and yoga retreats. Last summer I spent a lot of time on the beach teaching the yoga teacher about DevOps because it turns out there is a lot of similarity !! E.g. Focus & Flow, Efficiency, working together etc 🙂
ooooh! we're going to need a yoga component when we're back in session @annp - hint 😉
I just came back from a company offsite where I did a 20 minute desk yoga and guided meditation 🙂 Youtube video coming soon!!
💡 Love the idea of not just physical prizes or money. Value in peer/leadership recognition
yes!!! recognition is so important 😄 Its also worth speaking to your team, some people prefer public praise while other prefer a private recognition 🙂
yes. just have to promise to do it in a reasonable amount of time 😉
Rhetorical:grinning: question. Is there still anybody who hasn't read it?
I'll be honest.... I only read it recently 🙈 I'm so glad I did!! Also the font is quite big so it was a quick (and awesome) read 😄
Love Accelerate! Do you have any other books that you think are a must-read? I remember you put me on to The Phoenix Project - love a DevStefOps recommendation
Phoenix Project & Unicorn Project are my go-tos! Currently reading 'DevSecOps' by @glenn.wilson 🙂
Make Work Visible is one I go back to a bunch, too
Ooooh I haven't read it, it keeps coming up so I'll add it to the list. Thanks @vmshook
Thank you for attending everyone !!! Feel free to pop over to #xpo-gitlab-the-one-devops-platform if you want to hear more about how to shift left and measure DORA metrics using GitLab
@schaplin Thank you so much... I wish had a 100:1 ratio. I am more like 100000:1 maybe higher.
It really vafies !!! The best I've seen is 1:65, the worst... 1:500 or more 👻
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