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2020-06-23
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Nic Whittaker07:06:38

Morning!

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Nic Whittaker07:06:38

Morning!

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Russell07:06:32

Morning Nic ๐Ÿ™‚ Hope you are well? Looking forward to your chat.

Nic Whittaker07:06:14

Hey Russell. Hope you enjoy it.

Stefan (Stieber)08:06:59

@fernando.cornago how do you cope with this level of transparency within your organisation?

Stefan (Stieber)08:06:59

@fernando.cornago how do you cope with this level of transparency within your organisation?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations08:06:01

heโ€™s in #ask-the-speaker-keynote

Stefan (Stieber)08:06:20

@fernando.cornago442 ย how do you cope with this level of transparency within your organisation?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations09:06:27

fyi, more comments on keynotes are in #ask-the-speaker-keynote

Natasha Anderson09:06:48

Wow! What an awesome session, so many nuggets to take away!

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Alistair Doran10:06:26

That last talk was inspiring!!

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Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)10:06:38

Welcome speakers @nic.whittaker and @michellecmoss after the break!

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Michelle Moss10:06:41

Hello ๐Ÿ‘‹

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Nic Whittaker10:06:40

I am not nervous i am not nervous i am not nervous...

Nic Whittaker10:06:09

2 laptop reboots so far this morning :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Michelle Moss10:06:55

I feel better about have 1 now ๐Ÿ˜€

Michelle Moss10:06:32

the coffee is doing the trick.

Patrick Debois10:06:37

@nic.whittaker you got this ๐Ÿ™‚

Patrick Debois10:06:37

@nic.whittaker you got this ๐Ÿ™‚

Nic Whittaker10:06:49

I'm reminded of Superman The Movie..."you got me...but who's got you?!??!

Nic Whittaker10:06:19

only on here - all talks prerecorded

Richard Vodden10:06:17

itโ€™s weird how it doesnโ€™t make a difference though. I recorded mine on Saturday (it will be played out tomorrow morning) and I feel exactly the same as if I was talking live! Only I know all the things which donโ€™t go quite how I wanted already!!! :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

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Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:06:42

Oh ok thatโ€™s what l thought - as TEH @patrick.debois256 said youโ€™ll be totes fine, questions were gentle so far

Richard Vodden10:06:06

I love this community - I donโ€™t think Iโ€™ve spoken at another conference where we can be so open about how we feel.

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Richard Vodden10:06:35

and yeah @nic.whittaker you already know you smashed it ๐Ÿ™‚ weโ€™ll confirm that for you in about 40 minutes ๐ŸŽ‰

Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:06:22

l dunno - lโ€™m loving virtual vs in person keynotes - right before my turn lโ€™d be obsessing about the fear of climbing stage steps in heels - lโ€™m sure you can relate ๐Ÿ˜†

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Darryl Brown10:06:04

@nic.whittaker great start, I am in exactly the same position you described.

Darryl Brown10:06:04

@nic.whittaker great start, I am in exactly the same position you described.

Nic Whittaker10:06:50

yep - you just got to pick a starting point

Darryl Brown10:06:13

Yes, I am focusing in on our infrastructure, but it is hard to ignore the application design. I am no stranger to agile transformation, i lead a grass roots transformation in a US government contract setting

Nic Whittaker10:06:55

Ironically, if i were to do it again, i'd focus on the core infra teams first then deal with the app teams

Nic Whittaker10:06:37

IMO, the mindset leap is smaller/more natural for Devs compared to the infra teams

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Darryl Brown10:06:22

That is very reassuring, i have been thinking I was taking the wrong approach this time, but I agree getting the core down right is the first key

Darryl Brown10:06:30

I am trying to build a linkage of the core teams that enable security, audit, network ops, and enterprise architecture. I am getting the management team on board with this concept

Ciaran Byrne10:06:06

# Don't Panic! ๐Ÿ˜„

Ciaran Byrne10:06:01

Agile talk, waterfall delivery - I feel your pain...

Andrew Salt10:06:01

โ€œDevops is about collaborative behaviour across the whole orgโ€ ๐Ÿ™Œ

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Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:06:18

โ€œPeople who waterfall in their headโ€ is what l call them

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Duena Blomstrom, Psychological Safety Dashboard CEO, Author PeopleBeforeTech10:06:18

โ€œPeople who waterfall in their headโ€ is what l call them

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Michelle Moss10:06:38

People who tell you they get it and then do what they did before.

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Andrew Salt10:06:50

Any more info on how you do โ€œDojoโ€?

Andrew Salt10:06:50

Any more info on how you do โ€œDojoโ€?

Nic Whittaker10:06:11

i've seen it done different ways. for us, it was about co-locating teams to address ways of working and friction between teams, as well as to double-down on limited coaching resource.

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Nic Whittaker10:06:35

but i've seen it used to force all new teams for the first x weeks of delivery through a cookie cutter

Michael Winslow10:06:58

This is amazing @nic.whittaker and @michellecmoss! @andrew.salt If you stay on track 1 right after this, @nisha.parkash and I talk specifically how COMCAST/SKY got started with Dojos.

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Ciaran Byrne10:06:25

@michellecmoss What was the objective of your Dojo? Was it dev focussed, ops focussed, culture focussed... a mixture?

Ciaran Byrne10:06:25

@michellecmoss What was the objective of your Dojo? Was it dev focussed, ops focussed, culture focussed... a mixture?

Michelle Moss10:06:32

We started with like-minded project teams as the connection but then found there was scope for shared outcomes and collaborative ways of working. Once they started talking they found more commonality that we had realised.

Ciaran Byrne10:06:56

OK - thanks, @michellecmoss

Vlad Ukis10:06:15

You mean only 5 reorgs in 5 years? ๐Ÿ™‚

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Ciaran Byrne10:06:54

@michellecmoss...I'm working with Ops heavy orgs, with some dev - so I'm interested to see if the Dojo approach can work for Ops orgs

Ciaran Byrne10:06:54

@michellecmoss...I'm working with Ops heavy orgs, with some dev - so I'm interested to see if the Dojo approach can work for Ops orgs

Michelle Moss10:06:35

I have started to do a similar approach with some OPs teams to get them connecting better

Nic Whittaker10:06:17

see reply to Andrew (above) for Dojo

Nic Whittaker10:06:17

see reply to Andrew (above) for Dojo

Philip Day10:06:29

You said something about getting leaderships to resolve conflict in front of an audience... could you elaborate on that please? How many people / who / what sort of issue made it to that forum?

Philip Day10:06:29

You said something about getting leaderships to resolve conflict in front of an audience... could you elaborate on that please? How many people / who / what sort of issue made it to that forum?

Nic Whittaker10:06:57

In the Big Room event, we had way more than double the demand for capped Capital and Resource challenge. Everything was more important than everybody else's thing. The C suite had to argue it out and rationalise the final decisions in the room.

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Nic Whittaker10:06:12

200+ in the room

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Nic Whittaker10:06:15

On the decisions? Yes - the funding for the quarter was signed off at 5pm on day#2 of the session. Done.

Michelle Moss10:06:30

I think that the speed in which people picked up on the objectives was the most impressive thing

Michelle Moss10:06:00

They got that they needed to agree together.

Philip Day10:06:00

I can imagine they'd be under pressure to collaborate constructively with 200 people watching... more of a 'yes and' style than behind closed doors perhaps

Nic Whittaker11:06:00

actually the first 30 mins of the C suite argument happened in a closed room. but then they got turfed out.

Philip Day11:06:20

By who? Bravery award.

Nic Whittaker12:06:25

:rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: not by me, that's for sure

Marc Boudreau (Enterprise Architect)10:06:52

@nic.whittaker @michellecmoss How many PIs have you gone through now and how much have you adapted the process? How have you adapted the PIs for the current work situation?

Marc Boudreau (Enterprise Architect)10:06:52

@nic.whittaker @michellecmoss How many PIs have you gone through now and how much have you adapted the process? How have you adapted the PIs for the current work situation?

Nic Whittaker10:06:31

PI#3 happening next week

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Nic Whittaker10:06:47

totally adapted - but mainly because of Covid - see last few minutes of this talk

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Ciaran Byrne10:06:53

"individually we may go faster but together we will go further"... wise words

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Ciaran Byrne10:06:53

"individually we may go faster but together we will go further"... wise words

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Michelle Moss10:06:32

we kept going back to this phrase which helped us keep on track too

Ciaran Byrne10:06:35

Do you mind if I use your phrase too? I'll make very good use of it!

Ciaran Byrne10:06:18

@nic.whittaker, @michellecmoss ๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

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Cornรฉ den Hollander10:06:30

Thanks for sharing @nic.whittaker and @michellecmoss!

Michael Winslow10:06:57

Great job @nic.whittaker and @michellecmoss!!!! ๐ŸŽ†

Narendra10:06:13

Good presentation, @nic.whittaker and @michellecmoss!

Cornรฉ den Hollander10:06:45

And good luck to your company and yourself to get out of this crisis more strongly! ๐Ÿ’ช:skin-tone-3: โœˆ๏ธ

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Michael Winslow10:06:49

Such a quick cross-over ๐Ÿ™‚ -- @nisha.parkash and I are here to answer questions for The Comcast/SKY Dojo!

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Stijn Claes - Nike11:06:10

@michael_winslow love your dutch. Goed gedaan ๐Ÿ˜‰

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Nisha Parkash11:06:13

Hi Everyone ๐Ÿ˜Š

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Liz Rice11:06:23

Someone send @michael_winslow a burger and fries!

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Suzy Wardle11:06:54

Well done @nic.whittaker and @michellecmoss great job, very engaging ๐Ÿ‘

Suzy Wardle11:06:54

Well done @nic.whittaker and @michellecmoss great job, very engaging ๐Ÿ‘

Nic Whittaker11:06:30

Ahhh Virgin Atlantic Massif - cheers Suzy!

Nic Whittaker11:06:31

@michael_winslow good callout to the whitepapers - this one (and many others) on the website and all worth reading

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Jose Mingorance11:06:15

@nisha.parkashย &ย @michael_winslow, did your DOJO's include Product Management skills? @Fannie Mae we are leveraging DOJOs to help our Business Analyst to Product Owner journey along with helping the tech teams with techniques like TDD, Pair/Mobbing, Pipeline automation, Cucumber, etc.

Jose Mingorance11:06:15

@nisha.parkashย &ย @michael_winslow, did your DOJO's include Product Management skills? @Fannie Mae we are leveraging DOJOs to help our Business Analyst to Product Owner journey along with helping the tech teams with techniques like TDD, Pair/Mobbing, Pipeline automation, Cucumber, etc.

Nisha Parkash11:06:07

Hi Jose, thank you for your question, we didn't focus on having Product Management but we made sure we had Product Management presence

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Renรฉ Lippert11:06:05

@nisha.parkash, @michael_winslow did you tried other tools than miro eg. Mural? Does someone know a good comparison between such tools?

Renรฉ Lippert11:06:05

@nisha.parkash, @michael_winslow did you tried other tools than miro eg. Mural? Does someone know a good comparison between such tools?

Michael Winslow11:06:54

Hi Rene. This group did not work with other tools. A couple of us had previously worked on projects with @dominica where she was using Mural. She did all the heavy lifting to try several tools! Shout out to Dominica!

Liz Rice11:06:20

Really enjoying this talk @nisha.parkash @michael_winslow itโ€™s giving me all sorts of ideas

Liz Rice11:06:20

Really enjoying this talk @nisha.parkash @michael_winslow itโ€™s giving me all sorts of ideas

Michael Winslow11:06:10

Thanks Liz! We are hoping that a lot of folks are in a similar situation as us which is ... we did not yet have widespread buy-in from Senior Leadership.

Michael Winslow11:06:02

We are actually getting a lot of additional support simply by putting this talk together and presenting it to leadership!

Nisha Parkash11:06:47

Thanks Liz ๐Ÿ™‚

Liz Rice12:06:57

You showed some great ideas around cross-team, international collaboration and learning, I really appreciated it

Bahram11:06:21

Really enjoyed your talk @nisha.parkash and @michael_winslow. Thanks

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Bahram11:06:21

Really enjoyed your talk @nisha.parkash and @michael_winslow. Thanks

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Nisha Parkash11:06:23

Thank you Bahram ๐Ÿ™‚

Rob Falla11:06:29

That was a good talk

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Rob Falla11:06:29

That was a good talk

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Michael Winslow11:06:17

Thanks Rob! We really appreciate you watching!

Nisha Parkash11:06:43

Thank you ๐Ÿ™‚

Blake (Community at DZone; Gene Kim Fan Club Member 2,000,005)11:06:30

Great breakdown of DOJO benefits as well. And a session with @michael_winslow background makes me want to rewatch Coming to America later today. Win/win

Blake (Community at DZone; Gene Kim Fan Club Member 2,000,005)11:06:30

Great breakdown of DOJO benefits as well. And a session with @michael_winslow background makes me want to rewatch Coming to America later today. Win/win

Michael Winslow11:06:16

:rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

Nic Whittaker11:06:38

Great talk @nisha.parkash @michael_winslow

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Nic Whittaker11:06:38

Great talk @nisha.parkash @michael_winslow

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Michael Winslow11:06:38

Thanks Nic! Yours also!

Nisha Parkash11:06:12

Thank you - likewise ๐Ÿ™‚

JohannT11:06:54

@nisha.parkash and @michael_winslow appreciate your talk. I'm an Agile/DevOps coach and would love to connect, share, learn more about DevOps Dojos.

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JohannT11:06:54

@nisha.parkash and @michael_winslow appreciate your talk. I'm an Agile/DevOps coach and would love to connect, share, learn more about DevOps Dojos.

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Nisha Parkash11:06:51

Happy to connect ๐Ÿ™‚ Thanks for watching

Michael Winslow11:06:59

Thank Johann! Feel free to DM us as well as connect on linkedin!

JohannT11:06:24

Thanks Michael and Nisha - Linked in connections sent. Watch out for https://www.linkedin.com/in/johannt/

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Michelle Moss11:06:56

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Michelle Moss11:06:56

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Michael Winslow11:06:48

Thanks Michelle! We appreciate the mention of Dojo in your talk as a perfect handoff to ours!!! ๐Ÿ˜‰

Michelle Moss11:06:41

oh yes. I did that deliberately ๐Ÿ˜‰

Jose Mingorance11:06:33

๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

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Jose Mingorance11:06:33

๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

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Michael Winslow11:06:25

Thanks Jose! And thanks for being interactive!

Yasmin Sajid11:06:43

Thanks for talk - really enjoyed itย @nisha.parkashย @michael_winslow

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Yasmin Sajid11:06:43

Thanks for talk - really enjoyed itย @nisha.parkashย @michael_winslow

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Nisha Parkash11:06:20

Thank you - thanks for watching ๐Ÿ™‚

Peter Fassbinder12:06:07

Why do you emphasize the many.many relationship as a difference to DevOps? Don't we also have many:many relationships in DevOps when we look a large, complex, global product develpment?

Peter Fassbinder12:06:07

Why do you emphasize the many.many relationship as a difference to DevOps? Don't we also have many:many relationships in DevOps when we look a large, complex, global product develpment?

Chris Bergh14:06:29

In my experience the m:m relationship in data analytics is prevalent in every organization of any size. The mix of low-code BI tools and lots of back end databases and a culture of separation make this tough in the data world

Jonny Leigh12:06:56

really keen to hear success stories on DataOps - please share - I'm currently working on a CI/CD pipeline for Snowflake+Azure+PowerBI

Jonny Leigh12:06:56

really keen to hear success stories on DataOps - please share - I'm currently working on a CI/CD pipeline for Snowflake+Azure+PowerBI

Chris Bergh14:06:57

Fantastic. We collected a bunch of stories: -ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย Videos:ย https://bit.ly/2FmFNRZ -ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย Blog: https://medium.com/data-ops -ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย ย SlideShare: https://bit.ly/2FHN3Hu

Peter Fassbinder12:06:42

Great insights into this increasingly important topic, probably greatly undervalued

Davy Kenis12:06:43

noooo the dark age of IT is back!!!

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)12:06:50

@michael.palzer @stephan.stapel supply chain inspires my thinking as well. This is just software supply chain. Minimize touch to reduce cost and damage. JIT to minimize storage cost and aged inventory.

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Edu Escartรญ13:06:58

Seeing all this DevOps talks on question pops in my mind: How do you orginize @stephan.stapel do you have an actual Ops team? Or single teams that are cross-disciplinary?

Edu Escartรญ13:06:58

Seeing all this DevOps talks on question pops in my mind: How do you orginize @stephan.stapel do you have an actual Ops team? Or single teams that are cross-disciplinary?

Stephan Stapel13:06:13

Yes, they are still around. They care about the legacy applications until those are reengineered or replaced. Transferring people into new roles is really tough. Some bits about that in a minute.

Edu Escartรญ13:06:07

do you think that getting rid of those traditional teams is important to go towards company-wide devops?

Edu Escartรญ13:06:34

Getting rid as in transforming ๐Ÿ™‚ of courseโ€ฆ

Stephan Stapel13:06:49

No, probably not getting rid. You will always have fields where it doesn't make sense to do DevOps, e.g. for hosting standard applications like timekeeping, document management, jira, wiki etc.

Stephan Stapel13:06:19

Concerning transforming: we rather see flucuation than transformation. Lots of Ops people aka classic admins want exactly that job. So they'd rather leave than change.

Stephan Stapel13:06:30

Same is true for testers.

Stephan Stapel13:06:02

And that's not bad imho. It's important to be in contact, to manage this.

Edu Escartรญ13:06:48

Thatโ€™s a good pointโ€ฆ

Edu Escartรญ13:06:05

thanks for the insighst!

Stephan Stapel13:06:25

It's impossible but the idea is to keep frustration low.

Davy Kenis13:06:34

@stephan.stapel Iโ€™m a big believer of blending roles however one of the challenges iโ€™m facing frequently. How to blend roles if certain activities are being taken care of outside of your organisation and in respect out of your circle of influence? (eg. external development vendor)

Davy Kenis13:06:34

@stephan.stapel Iโ€™m a big believer of blending roles however one of the challenges iโ€™m facing frequently. How to blend roles if certain activities are being taken care of outside of your organisation and in respect out of your circle of influence? (eg. external development vendor)

Stephan Stapel13:06:18

good point. That's one of the reasons which we are insourcing as much as we can. Blending roles need real interest in company, culture etc. Interest is difficult if you're just temp. Does that answer your question?!

Davy Kenis13:06:48

when you say insourcing, you mean building software by in-house developers iso buying off the shelf applications?

Stephan Stapel13:06:30

Insourcing goes further than dev only. Also PMs, POs and all other roles that were partially external before.

Stephan Stapel13:06:14

Also, we have a lot of bespoke applications, there is no standard software in parcel business ๐Ÿ™‚

Evgeny Potapov13:06:35

@stephan.stapel @michael.palzer great talk! thanks! who was the initiator of the transformation in the company? someone at top management level or it happened from the bottom? did you see any conflicts between bureaucratic processes management (I don't necessarily mean that bureaucratic is bad for a huge company) and the innovation? how did you solve this?

Evgeny Potapov13:06:35

@stephan.stapel @michael.palzer great talk! thanks! who was the initiator of the transformation in the company? someone at top management level or it happened from the bottom? did you see any conflicts between bureaucratic processes management (I don't necessarily mean that bureaucratic is bad for a huge company) and the innovation? how did you solve this?

Stephan Stapel13:06:16

We started in the middle. And found challenges on every level. Imho, it's not the top management that is per se bad and the 'bottom' that is per se good. Everyone needs to learn and change.

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Stephan Stapel13:06:32

And bureaucratic process management: yes. Of course. We are a big company, so there is a lot of "interest" in bureaucracy. Fortunately, we found company in our company that helped us getting rid of odd things like 'annual investment requests'.

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Stephan Stapel13:06:41

With fixed budgets and fixed todos.

Stephan Stapel13:06:10

It's really sometimes surprising where you are getting help from.

Evgeny Potapov13:06:14

gotcha, thanks! did you start with some internal "startup-alike" project or with the transformation of existing products?

Stephan Stapel13:06:01

we used existing products. But there was a great wave for us to catch. With change of the CIO, a big IT renovation project was initiated. It helped a lot to be able to change the application landscape and hire additional (fresh, good) people

Stephan Stapel13:06:57

Personally I don't like internal startups. That might turn out to be an internal Disneyland, loosing contact to reality (for the startup and also for the rest of the company)

Evgeny Potapov13:06:37

great case, thanks!

Stephan Stapel13:06:48

Aother point concerning internal startup: if you hate your org so much that you create a small new one, we not change the oiginal org?

Evgeny Potapov13:06:37

this might really depend, consider some highly regulated business, like healthcare, 99% of seemingly unnecessary practices there I believe is to prevent really rare cases that happens 1 of 10,000 times, but still can really hurt, so while they might be willing to move, this could bring some intertion

Evgeny Potapov13:06:27

it's like microsoft excel still having 1900 a leap year (while it's not) for a backward compatibility with lotus 1-2-3 from 80s

Stephan Stapel13:06:55

good point. I remember conversations with healthcare colleagues that weren't able to step from cvs to subversion because of regulations. Glad to work in a deregulated business. I guess the path is far harder.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:17

"Manage your management". As @nasello.scott says, "hacking the biggest undocumented API"

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:17

"Manage your management". As @nasello.scott says, "hacking the biggest undocumented API"

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Stephan Stapel13:06:02

we'll use that in our next presentations. Great! Thanks!

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)13:06:54

We have in our presentations too. I quote him constantly. You get the best quotes from DevHops sessions. ๐Ÿ˜‚

Michael Palzer13:06:23

So right, I already make a notice for the next presentation ๐Ÿ™‚

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Michael Kalbermatter13:06:23

Thx for your insights!

Richard Vodden13:06:24

thanks guys - great stuff!

Davy Kenis13:06:33

thanks guys!

Dirk Dornseiff (Tasktop)13:06:33

Thanks for sharing. Great talk

Li Zhu13:06:27

Great share.

Li Zhu13:06:27

Great share.

Li Zhu13:06:36

It might be weird to say, but I can feel the honesty and hard work through the presentation.

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mohitraina16:06:28

Thanks John , Great talk ๐Ÿ‘