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2020-06-23
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jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)00:06:14

@pnuwayser no need to keep this one. its purpose is to navigate folks to the other channels.

Kurt A07:06:42

@jeff.gallimore so where is the "ask-head-honcho" (aka Gene) channel? :-)

Kurt A07:06:42

@jeff.gallimore so where is the "ask-head-honcho" (aka Gene) channel? :-)

Steve Thair (DevOpsGroup)08:06:13

nice to see GuyPo on the Committee - haven't seen him since the Velocity days!

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René Lippert08:06:15

@fernando.cornago442 Can you share how you created the SRE teams and from your point of view what kind of team they are in terms of Teams Topologies? Finally how many SRE teams you have and how do you map them towards the stream aligned teams.

Jose Mingorance08:06:25

I would love learn more about their SRE structure and engagement model.

Jose Mingorance08:06:25

I would love learn more about their SRE structure and engagement model.

Steve Challis08:06:18

So often the way to solve complex challenges is by bringing together leaders with different, but complimentary skill sets. Another good example being shared by iptiQ with the technical-compliance alliance!

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Steve Challis08:06:18

So often the way to solve complex challenges is by bringing together leaders with different, but complimentary skill sets. Another good example being shared by iptiQ with the technical-compliance alliance!

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author, Agile Conversations08:06:10

btw, most comments are in #ask-the-speaker-keynote

Steve Challis08:06:53

thanks, hadn’t seen that channel

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Chris Swan09:06:33

Former Royal Navy Weapon Engineer Officer here if anybody's curious about how the stuff @steve773 is talking about worked out later on. It used to be my job to advise the Commanding Officer / Principal Warfare Officer in the Operations Room (UK term for Combat Information Center)

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Chris Swan09:06:33

Former Royal Navy Weapon Engineer Officer here if anybody's curious about how the stuff @steve773 is talking about worked out later on. It used to be my job to advise the Commanding Officer / Principal Warfare Officer in the Operations Room (UK term for Combat Information Center)

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Liz Rice13:06:22

Hi Chris! 👋

Chris Swan15:06:48

Hi Liz - good to see you here. I stepped away for a while for some work stuff I couldn't dodge :man-frowning:

Steve Spear09:06:44

@chrisswan Thanks Chris. Hanging in the “ask the speaker” channel now.

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Jeffrey Fredrick, Author, Agile Conversations09:06:53

@steve773: what objections to hear to “distributed experimentation”? I hear a lot of concerns from people about efficiency, so I’d expect that would be one… but maybe no, maybe others are more common.

Andy Farmer - Tasktop09:06:08

Loving the t-shirt John Willis

Dan Vallera09:06:22

@steve773 really enjoyed your Key Note Session Are you familiar with Kessel Run and some of the on going efforts we are doing to help change the way Command & Control is conducting in the USAF

Dan Vallera09:06:22

@steve773 really enjoyed your Key Note Session Are you familiar with Kessel Run and some of the on going efforts we are doing to help change the way Command & Control is conducting in the USAF

Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)11:06:19

No, but I'd love to read more (link).

Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)11:06:47

I'm also deeply fascinated by the thinking behind this: https://software.af.mil/

Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)11:06:01

I work for a bank and I think I have governance tough....

Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)11:06:44

@dvallera - would you be open for a chat?

Dan Vallera11:06:12

hey guys @jtf that is my organization and @matthew.cobby Platform One came after KR but they are leading the way in other efforts. We are trying to build out DevSecOps in an acquisition community that is old and still implements waterfall process

Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)11:06:05

That's a hard yard in such an environment

Steve Spear16:06:14

@dvallera @matthew.cobby @jtf Happy to pick up the discussion by e mail, zoom, separate channel in the conference, etc. Cheers.

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Steve Spear09:06:41

@jtf Great question. Takes HUUUGE confidence in one’s self and one’s colleagues to distribute experimentation like that. The thing is, what’s the alternative? You’re in a situation which is unfamiliar and about which you don’t know much. So, you can either figure out how to parse issues and distribute experimentation OR you can chose to stay stupid. And smart typically beats stupid….

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Steve Spear09:06:41

@jtf Great question. Takes HUUUGE confidence in one’s self and one’s colleagues to distribute experimentation like that. The thing is, what’s the alternative? You’re in a situation which is unfamiliar and about which you don’t know much. So, you can either figure out how to parse issues and distribute experimentation OR you can chose to stay stupid. And smart typically beats stupid….

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Andy Farmer - Tasktop10:06:26

I guess this is similar to the aviation industry - if 'the fear of being wrong / need to be right' is more powerful than 'speaking up / OK to being wrong' then pilots make bad decisions and planes crash. There was a strong incentive for the Navy proactively tackle these new problems ahead of time - 'if we don't try to solve these problems now - lots of people will die' . Glad the Navy culture was in a good place to make these problem solving learning exercises happen!

Steve Spear09:06:41

@dvallera Thanks Dan. Note something I know about. Most familiarity is with Navy from the last several years of working together and little Army from time with the Rapid Equipping Force 2012-2014. Air Force, not much at all.

Nick Eggleston (Nix) - IT Architect09:06:56

Where will lighting talk speakers be during their talks for feedback?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author, Agile Conversations09:06:17

Smart beats stupid… eventually. The problem is that learning hurts now! Need leadership who can see past the short-term discomfort.

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)09:06:21

@steve773 I DM'd you. No rush.

Sebastian Dziewiatkowicz10:06:32

Excellent talk @steve773. Earlier this year I watched a talk on the same topic by Trent Hone, the author of the Learning War book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdRZtmRhECg. (targeted for a different audience, yours is much more sharable!)

Sebastian Dziewiatkowicz10:06:32

Excellent talk @steve773. Earlier this year I watched a talk on the same topic by Trent Hone, the author of the Learning War book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdRZtmRhECg. (targeted for a different audience, yours is much more sharable!)

Gene Kim - Program Chair - ITREV11:06:44

Holy cow. Trent Hone works with @jeff.gallimore!

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)11:06:33

@UER7Z68CA yep. he’s on my core team. i learn lots from him.

Sebastian Dziewiatkowicz11:06:45

@UER7Z68CA @jeff.gallimore one day I was trying to learn more about Gary Klein's Shadowbox Training method. Turns out a person who co-authored MDCP1 Warfighting - the USMC doctrine document works with him (John F. Schmitt) https://www.shadowboxtraining.com/the-shadowbox-team

Steve Spear10:06:36

@michellecmoss @nic.whittaker Appreciated the mention of value stream mapping. Has been a HUGE help with knowleege work where you don’t have the physicality of material to tell you what happens where when. I think this connects with the no blame culture becuase once the process is visuualized, hen you can talk about hte process as a source of trouble, not the people in it.

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Steve Spear10:06:36

@michellecmoss @nic.whittaker Appreciated the mention of value stream mapping. Has been a HUGE help with knowleege work where you don’t have the physicality of material to tell you what happens where when. I think this connects with the no blame culture becuase once the process is visuualized, hen you can talk about hte process as a source of trouble, not the people in it.

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Helen Beal12:06:48

Hope you don't mind I screenshotted this - a lot of times I have people say they struggle to sell Value Stream Mapping internally and look for recommendations

Steve Spear15:06:47

Thanks. Here’s a very short note we wrote for students on how to map a process. We’ve done this in pharma NPD in IT etc. HUGE help in creating shared visualization of what we think is happening to which we can append our discoveries about what is actually happening + what we think should be changed.

Helen Beal10:06:19

Ooh - thanks for sharing - I have a version of Karen Martin/Mike Orzen's approaches that I use - always the tech delivery stream though - it's always really interesting to see other disciplines mapped. Sometimes I get a team to map 'getting a coffee' as warm up exercise

brntbeer10:06:29

Not sure if booth-speakers are valid here for questions, but if anyone has any questions about GitHub Actions for automation of your workflows or anything, please feel free to ask me here or DM or anything!

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Steve Challis10:06:55

@kevin.foley Thanks for the presentation. What was the thought process around building your own SDLC versus making use of an end to end tool?

Steve Challis10:06:55

@kevin.foley Thanks for the presentation. What was the thought process around building your own SDLC versus making use of an end to end tool?

Kevin Foley10:06:49

Do you need a tool, there will of course be tools to help you achieve your goals. You will always need to put a process in place so the tribes understand the guardrails they are working in.

Steve Challis11:06:02

people-process-technology! never fails

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Andy Bold10:06:38

Really enjoyed the talk @jtf - Agile Conversations just made it to the top of my reading Backlog

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Andy Bold10:06:38

Really enjoyed the talk @jtf - Agile Conversations just made it to the top of my reading Backlog

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Andy Farmer - Tasktop10:06:20

Nice presentation @nic.whittaker and @michellecmoss from Virgin Atlantic

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Trevor10:06:58

@kevin.foley - Do you feel you have runtime immutability enforcement?

Trevor10:06:58

@kevin.foley - Do you feel you have runtime immutability enforcement?

Kevin Foley11:06:52

Hi Trevor, We have a full lifecycle check on code, so from a runtime immutability enforcement we have a lot pipelines covered and some that are in progress, so not fully covered yet but will be soon.

Steve Spear11:06:51

@michael_winslow @nisha.parkash This is terrific. Thanks.

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Szabolcs Tóth11:06:26

@tal Hi, Tom I am just watching you great video 🙂 "Experienced employees do not feel the pain anymore".. So true. Btw, Are you feel the "pain" @ stackoverflow? 🙂

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Steve Spear11:06:14

what was the name of that post it white board for the dojo? @nisha.parkash @michael_winslow

Steve Spear11:06:14

what was the name of that post it white board for the dojo? @nisha.parkash @michael_winslow

Olivier Jacques11:06:40

They are several in that space. Mural, Klaxoon, ...

Michael Winslow11:06:38

Yes, we were using Mural.

Nisha Parkash11:06:58

@steve773 it was called Mural 🙂

Steve Spear11:06:48

@nisha.parkash Thank you. We’re talking about creating something that would have the post it like touch and feel to do process mapping, so you can see tasks, their relationships, etc. When people can be in the same place at the same time, post it notes and yarn are actually pretty good. Working remotely…

Steve Spear11:06:48

@nisha.parkash Thank you. We’re talking about creating something that would have the post it like touch and feel to do process mapping, so you can see tasks, their relationships, etc. When people can be in the same place at the same time, post it notes and yarn are actually pretty good. Working remotely…

Nisha Parkash11:06:42

I recommend Mural - we spent some time focussing on this with a timer function so we equally didn't dwell on what to put on the board, that timer created that urgency to think and think out of the box a bit quicker 🙂

Steve Spear15:06:00

Thanks Nisha. Great preso today. Cheers.

Thomas DuBuisson11:06:12

I've tried to use a shared screen and iPad with GoodNotes. That was great for me but worked much less well for everyone else (even when the diagram communication was all unidirectional). Mural is what we used after with good success.

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Derek Weeks, Sonatype / All Day DevOps11:06:23

Hi everyone, Q&A for the VendorDome session “The Dirty Truth of DevSecOps” will taken in #ask-the-speaker-track-4

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Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)11:06:27

@nisha.parkash - I loved the rules for dojo. As simple as keeping camera on. something we are struggling with a bit with our bootcamps and the lack of feedback from people.

Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)11:06:27

@nisha.parkash - I loved the rules for dojo. As simple as keeping camera on. something we are struggling with a bit with our bootcamps and the lack of feedback from people.

Nisha Parkash11:06:34

As someone that has never been involved in a Dojo this was really fun and engaging - as you say just having the camera on added to that experience 🙂

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author, Agile Conversations11:06:24

👋 Taking additional questions here if anyone has them

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author, Agile Conversations11:06:24

👋 Taking additional questions here if anyone has them

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author, Agile Conversations11:06:47

I was thinking related to the talk, but I suppose I could try fielding others… 🙂

Saloni11:06:00

what was going on behind you? Looked like a couple of sock puppets from here! 🙂 - and thanks for the food for thought.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author, Agile Conversations12:06:47

I think it was my daughter laying on the couch in the background… or so I thought!

Preston Gibbs - DevOps Dojo Sensei - Walmart11:06:12

Are yall meaning to be live right now? We can hear right now

alexbf (event staff)11:06:32

@pgibbs1587 There’s a vendordome live right now. https://sched.co/clBM

Dan // Datadog12:06:30

Hi all! 👋 We’ve already got some discussion going in #ask-the-speaker-track-4; if you’re watching my talk and have any questions or comments, don’t be shy—I’m around and happy to chat. 😄

Saloni12:06:34

@shaaron.alvares38 I really enjoyed that! Refreshingly practical. Thanks.

Saloni12:06:34

@shaaron.alvares38 I really enjoyed that! Refreshingly practical. Thanks.

Shaaron A Alvares12:06:21

Thank you @U0168F1FG0H 🙂, really appreciate

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)13:06:59

<!here>  @steve773 will be doing a follow-up Q&A to his morning keynote at 330pm BST (in 90 min). Join here: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/8908483265

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)13:06:59

<!here>  @steve773 will be doing a follow-up Q&A to his morning keynote at 330pm BST (in 90 min). Join here: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/8908483265

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author, Agile Conversations14:06:47

Happening now! @steve773 will be doing a follow-up Q&A to his morning keynote at 330pm BST (in 90 min). Join here: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/8908483265

Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)13:06:48

@martinwoodward - how do you handle the question of personal or work identities when contributing back to open source outside the firewall? Is it all under http://microsoft.com users? Any issues with risk if you use personal users?

Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)13:06:48

@martinwoodward - how do you handle the question of personal or work identities when contributing back to open source outside the firewall? Is it all under http://microsoft.com users? Any issues with risk if you use personal users?

Anne-Christa Strik13:06:36

@matthew.cobby - Martin is also in the https://github.zoom.us/j/93929282358?pwd=Z3pkSHJPTHAvZSs1M2VvTVhPUlZOQT09 if you want to ask those questions 🙂 (password: GitHub)

Martin Woodward13:06:38

Answered in #ask-the-speaker-track-3 - basically we encourage them to use their personal ID’s but we associate the GitHub ID with the Microsoft org so that we can check they have 2fa etc enabled when contributing to the Microsoft org

Martin Woodward13:06:09

You can also configure SAML so that they are authenticated against AAD when they contribute to the Microsoft org

Deepak Ramchandani Vensi13:06:25

@matthew.cobby we use that quite heavily. If you want you can have users add in their corporate email to the GitHub profile .. and you can ask them to set that as their secondary email; and then you can verify that. There are some neat approaches to managing Identity as part of Github

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Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)13:06:25

@martinwoodward - is there an open (inner) source culture distinct to open source @ Microsoft or is it a spectrum of maturity from inner to open?

divineops13:06:12

@matthew.cobby it’s more of a vice versa

divineops13:06:32

you start with open source, and then gradually also embrace innersource

Dan Vallera13:06:06

@mail832 Great presentation! how does one get a copy of those slides?

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Dan Vallera13:06:06

@mail832 Great presentation! how does one get a copy of those slides?

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Julia Harrison13:06:10

I think the organisers are going to put them in a dropbox and a github repo for everyone. #summit-help is probably the place to ask 🙂

Dan Vallera13:06:06

awesome thank you again I really enjoyed the presentation which had valuable information for all team members!

Nihar Shah13:06:20

Great presentation @mail832 - a lot of key takeaways and lessons for sure. Thank you 🙏

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Syed B13:06:50

@mail832 Great presentation Julia!! 🙂 🙌

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Syed B13:06:50

@mail832 Great presentation Julia!! 🙂 🙌

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Austen Constable13:06:12

+1 really enjoyed it

Senthil Kumarathevan13:06:06

Excellent presentation, well done

gaborf13:06:13

@michael.palzer@stephan.stapel great presentation, thank you!

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Naren Yellavula13:06:31

@divineops and @martinwoodward, that was a great talk. Really, got an insider view of Microsoft's take on open-source.

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Donald Holberg14:06:31

Are we also able to get the slide decks for each of the presentations or is that at the end of the day? I'd really like to see the one from the adidas team.

Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)14:06:12

@donaldholberg Adidas presentation is coming!

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Macca15:06:43

Will this be the hottest ever London DOES? 34 deg for London tomorrow.... #suncream whilst appreciating all the great talks from the garden...

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Macca15:06:43

Will this be the hottest ever London DOES? 34 deg for London tomorrow.... #suncream whilst appreciating all the great talks from the garden...

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Marcus Davage15:06:45

Me too in Cardiff.

Jimmy Simons15:06:05

lager season is in flight 😉

Marcus Davage15:06:43

@erica.morrison Where does the culture of Witch Hunting start in the aftermath of an incident, and why? How can you stop it? This is bringing back many painful memories...

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Marcus Davage15:06:43

@erica.morrison Where does the culture of Witch Hunting start in the aftermath of an incident, and why? How can you stop it? This is bringing back many painful memories...

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Erica Morrison15:06:46

It can unfortunately start at any level of the organization and takes continual vigilance to keep it at bay and out of the culture. Psychological safety is a key component here and there are many aspects to this. It needs to be openly discussed and defended by everyone. Leaders need to model behavior by accepting feedback. Post-incident reviews need to be blameless

Marcus Davage15:06:13

Yes!!! I've been on (far too many) war rooms where senior managers have sworn at techies, and have wanted them fired after incident resolution!

Marcus Davage15:06:27

A Culture of Terror... ☠️👹

Jevon White07:06:50

We had a saying at one of my old companies: “the fish rots from the head”.

Brian Martin15:06:16

I ran the BlackBerry Global NOC during the 54 hour outage in 2011. I'm breaking into a cold sweat.

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Brian Martin15:06:30

How difficult was it to get the SME's to buy in to the commander role?

Brian Martin15:06:30

How difficult was it to get the SME's to buy in to the commander role?

Erica Morrison15:06:03

Very easy actually. It's honestly so easy to see this framework is better. For someone like a SME, it gives them more time to actually do troubleshooting without being constantly peppered questions and allows them to pursue multiple things. Reducing chaos and MTTR will sell most people 🙂

Brian Martin15:06:49

Unfortunately that hasn't been my experience. Having technical folks answer questions from an IC usually results in some version of, 'I am troubleshooting my service, leave me alone'.

Philipp Böschen15:06:37

How did you deal with the fairly common senior management is taking over the call bridge? Do you just hand it over and let them run it or how is that resolved during an outage? :thinking_face:

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Philipp Böschen15:06:37

How did you deal with the fairly common senior management is taking over the call bridge? Do you just hand it over and let them run it or how is that resolved during an outage? :thinking_face:

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Erica Morrison15:06:18

The first IC on the bridge is the IC until they give up control. They are the boss and have final authority to make any change in IC decisions. That can happen for a couple of reasons 1) The issue moved more towards a domain they don't know, 2) The issue got too big and they need to transition to a SME. If a senior leader is misbehaving on a call, you use "Would you like to take over as IC?" - that's the queue they've overstepped. If everyone is trained in this, it works pretty well

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Philipp Böschen15:06:21

I guess the key aspect is that the senior leaders also require the training 🙂 That makes sense

Shaaron A Alvares15:06:42

@U016L4WK2AC that's a really good observation and question: I was in similar situations and we got to a point (at Expedia) where we started educating our leaders about the critical importance of safety and trust 🙂. It didn't happen overnight, but they progressively got it and tried hard not to walk the floor and engage in telling people what to do, how fast etc. 🙂. Educating is key because they may know realize the negative impact of their behaviors.

Philipp Böschen15:06:53

Ah travel industry ! 🙂 I work at TUI currently. That's well put - guess it's a long road ahead of coaching our leaders as well as ourselves, thanks for that input!

Shaaron A Alvares15:06:30

Well you're right: we worked w transformation coaches and leadership consultants 🙂 . Influencing execs often takes external coaches/consultants, seen that many times

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Philipp Böschen15:06:49

Yeah bottom up tends to be hard since it takes someone very secure in themselves to deal with that properly I guess since it's questioning some fundamentals :thinking_face:

Federico Fregosi15:06:09

@erica.morrison great talk. “do you want to take over as IC ?” is a very common queue. Also featured in tv shows: :https://youtu.be/Qypoco4BL_c?t=228

Marcus Davage15:06:27

I'm so going to watch this again when it's available.

John Willis15:06:28

Seems to me Adaptive Capacity Labs and Black Rock 3 stuff are conflict. How do both work?

John Willis15:06:28

Seems to me Adaptive Capacity Labs and Black Rock 3 stuff are conflict. How do both work?

Erica Morrison15:06:39

They actually don't conflict at all. ACL recommend Blackrock 3 to us. One of their findings was that we needed to run our outage bridges better and I couldn't agree more that this was such a pivotal finding they provided to us. They compliment each other really well and go hand in hand

John Allspaw15:06:13

@jwillis our work is complementary, not in conflict at all

John Allspaw15:06:13

@jwillis our work is complementary, not in conflict at all

John Allspaw15:06:31

I’m honored to follow you as a speaker, BTW!

John Willis15:06:53

OK.. sure doesn't look that way.

John Allspaw15:06:11

@jwillis look closely! They work on IMS, not incident analysis. Related, not the same.

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Gene Kim - Program Chair - ITREV15:06:12

PS: might I recommend we take this discussion to #ask-the-speaker-keynote ? Thanks!! And so good to see you, @allspaw!!!!

John Willis15:06:22

Not sure how you can uncouple this...

John Willis15:06:22

Not sure how you can uncouple this...

Kurt A17:06:23

@jwillis @allspaw would like to dialog with you on this in his current Q&A session...

John Willis15:06:38

but I'll leave it at that....

Shaaron A Alvares15:06:00

Great presentation @erica.morrison and so needed! Your description of the outage impact on people and org was right on! And it's awesome that you all made the concerted effort to organize the learning in a framework that can be operationalized, packaged and leverageable by other companies. Thank you for sharing your vulnerability so that others can benefit.

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Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]15:06:53

Are technology leaders other people? Or are they everyone here? Leaders at all levels? :-)

Shaaron A Alvares15:06:18

@jonathansmart1 I believe we refer (at least I am) Execs. And what we'd welcome ifs that they make space for all the other Leaders who are able to think, lead and fix.

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Kevin Foley16:06:19

It also causes more work instead of fixing the problem... because you have to teach them why and what etc..

Shaaron A Alvares16:06:27

That's why: 1. We don't wait for incidents to happen to coach Leaders/ exces

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Shaaron A Alvares16:06:07

2. Incidents mgt needs to be fully integrated into the transformation stagery and roadmap, and generally it isn't 🙂

Shaaron A Alvares16:06:34

3. we have dedicated folks coaching/ educating exces/ leaders

Shaaron A Alvares16:06:47

4. Educating them on safety must be holistic not siloed like we usually do, team safety vs incident, vs performance reviews etc. it needs to be integrated and holistic. And foccussed on safety and growth mindset as an organizational capability

Michael Winslow15:06:00

I agree with everything you said about technology leaders @allspaw... (including that they do not apply to me!) 🙂

Michael Winslow15:06:00

I agree with everything you said about technology leaders @allspaw... (including that they do not apply to me!) 🙂

Michael Winslow15:06:36

kidding of course ... great stuff

Shaaron A Alvares15:06:49

"Supported Learning" love it!

Michael Winslow15:06:27

Love where you are going with this

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TomLimoncelli (he/him) Speaker Low Context DevOps16:06:19

Oh geez, @allspaw, I'm the guy that says "we only have 10 minutes left". 😞

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Ruben Freitas16:06:20

always great to hear from you @allspaw

sarathkanduri16:06:57

Great presentation @allspaw

Naren Yellavula16:06:08

Lots of brain fodder about incidents. Great talk @allspaw

Don Ham16:06:14

@allspaw Quick question - what is the efficient way to track the other team read the post incident? BTW - it was an excellent session.

Don Ham16:06:14

@allspaw Quick question - what is the efficient way to track the other team read the post incident? BTW - it was an excellent session.

John Allspaw16:06:51

There are various ways to count accesses on web pages! 🙂 depends on where/how the documents are stored and made available.

Don Ham16:06:37

Ah-ha ... it would work too. Thanks.

Jiří Klouda16:06:35

Google Docs have Tools->Activity Dashboard where you can see all viewers, for example. Confluence has Page View Statistics.

John Allspaw16:06:50

Yep, @U015ZDNFA5A’s suggestions are good ones

George M16:06:44

Great talk. As a leader plenty of food for thought there... Need 'soak time'

Nick Eggleston (Nix) - IT Architect16:06:41

So we have discussions about keynotes happening here and in -keynotes...kind of fractures the discussion space and community

John Willis16:06:46

That's dangerous .. a crispy cream and an In and Out next to each other. I'm glad I don't live in CA.

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Ruben Freitas16:06:02

@allspaw - I like the idea of splitting the discussion/learning meeting from the potential actions one. the only problem there, is having to have a second meeting, which can annoy some people. What’s you experience in running these, and in which formats?

Ruben Freitas16:06:02

@allspaw - I like the idea of splitting the discussion/learning meeting from the potential actions one. the only problem there, is having to have a second meeting, which can annoy some people. What’s you experience in running these, and in which formats?

John Allspaw16:06:20

it can happen in an async fashion and doesn’t have to be long. the most important part of separating them is to focus the group review meeting on a richer understanding of the event first. We never find that people forget what action items might be worth exploring later. But we do find people generating them too quickly before understanding the incident in a deeper way, resulting in tickets that get “won’t fix” later because frankly: it was a bad idea, based on a faulty understanding.

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Claudia Fetter18:06:31

I think people find time for what matters -- if there is value, they show up.

John Willis16:06:11

Great ignites

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John Willis16:06:09

I'll join the fun.. Here's a zoom link where I'll be hanging out to talk about the Handbook or Beyond the Phoenix Project.  https://us02web.zoom.us/j/87567853321?pwd=RVY2MjFQaUwxSmpQSWY0azRmTFNZZz09

John Willis16:06:09

I'll join the fun.. Here's a zoom link where I'll be hanging out to talk about the Handbook or Beyond the Phoenix Project.  https://us02web.zoom.us/j/87567853321?pwd=RVY2MjFQaUwxSmpQSWY0azRmTFNZZz09

Nick Eggleston (Nix) - IT Architect17:06:19

Meeting ID invalid - must’ve run out of time

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)17:06:41

@jonathansmart1 how do you measure safety?

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)17:06:41

@jonathansmart1 how do you measure safety?

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]18:06:52

The definition of safety in this context is compliance (Governance, Risk and Compliance), i.e. InfoSec, Data Privacy, Fraud, Compliance, etc. The control environment, both regulatory controls and company controls (psychological safety is covered via 'Happier' in Better Value Sooner Safer Happier). It's agile not fragile. Covered in "Risk and Control is Dead, Long Live Risk and Control" talk from DOES 19 Las Vegas. To answer your question, what we've done in the past is two key measures: (1) Left to Right measure. i.e. via the tooling we can see that you have a change with a number of mandatory risk stories. We can see if any changes were promoted without those mandatory risk stories having been automatically or manually attested as done and tested (e.g. MFA should've been implemented, but the controls have been bypassed maliciously or via breakglass) (2) Right to Left. A check of binary changes in prod. to ensure that it can be correlated back to the firm's control environment (i.e. the mandatory risk stories). If not, someone's bypassing all the controls. These two indicators would show up as red flags, and were part of the formal control environment, as reviewed and agreed by regulators. They were reviewed at exec level, aggregated by top level value streams.

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John Allspaw18:06:42

(just an acknowledgement that to equate safety with compliance can be problematic)

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Steve Spear19:06:13

Safety = zero bad things gone wrong. Inspiration for this point of view is Alcoa which established zero injuries as the goal and responding to every indication of risk as trigger. Here’s a link to an appreciation I wrote on Paul O’Neill’s passing which talks to that. https://conta.cc/2x7fD3q

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)19:06:57

Like equating quality with testing

John Allspaw19:06:16

A modern perspective is also that safety is the presence of activities and capabilities that enable people to anticipate, respond, monitor, and learn in situations that make for vulnerable outcomes - in this case it’s not the absence of adverse events, which tends to stretch interpretations of ‘zero’ and ‘bad’ and ‘thing’ and ‘wrong’

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John Allspaw19:06:07

Advocates for taking this view (sometimes referred to as a “Safety II” perspective or a “safety differently” perspective) would say that defining safety in the way @steve773 mentioned (and what’s historically been the definition) has some issues: how it’s measured and how it’s studied…Erik Hollnagel being a proponent of taking this new view: “The measurement problem is simply that an increase in safety is represented by a decrease in what is measured. Thus, a lower number of reported accidents (or other unwanted outcomes) is seen as representing a higher level of safety. The purpose of safety management is continuously to reduce or eliminate adverse outcomes and thereby achieve the enviable state of ‘freedom from harm’. But it is only possible to know how well an SMS works if there is something to measure. Therefore, the better the job an SMS does the less information there is about how to make improvements. This corresponds to the well-known regulator paradox, where the absence of feedback ultimately leads to a loss of control (Weinberg and Weinberg, 1979). The essence of the paradox is that the task of a regulator is to eliminate variation but this variation is the ultimate source of information about how well the regulator works. Therefore, the better the job a regulator does the less information it gets about how to improve. Thus, if an investment in safety does not lead to measurable results, such as a reduction in the number of accidents, then there is no way of knowing whether the investment had the desired effect. Furthermore, if the number of accidents is low to begin with, it is unreasonable to expect that the effect of improvements made can ever be measured.”

Jon Smart [Better Value Sooner Safer Happier]21:06:04

Sidney Dekker’s talk on this at DOES 18 was good. ‘It’s the presence of positives rather than the absence of negatives’ Airlines with the highest reported incidents have the lowest mortality rate

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Matt Cobby (National Australia Bank)10:06:14

I love this conversation, such great knowledge.

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