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Dammit I missed again. Summarizing all the amazing lean coffee discussions for myself this morning.
For those of you who've enjoyed the conversations this week, here's a way to have continual conversations after DOES !
Today's Lean Coffee lineup: Thurs, Oct 15 Lineup @dave - Rm 2 @bryan.finster - Walmart Dojo Metrics pitfalls - Rm 3 @dominica Project to Product - Rm 4 @dan.sloan - Cox Automotive Outcomes over Output - Rm 5 @james.simon1 The role of communities in our work - Rm 6 @berendzs Sooner, Safer, Happier - Rm 7 @steveelsewhere Value Streams - Rm 8 @nazia.ali Remote Work Grumpiness - Rm 9 @jtf Changing Behavior - Rm 10
Zoom links to these sessions will be posted here in this channel at 2:40 pm PT today.
Today's lean coffees formally begin at 2:50 pm PT.
@kimberley.wilson2 @peterlear any chance you'd like to keep talking about OKRs during Leadership Alignment Lean Coffee? 😛
☕ It’s your final chance to join a Lean Coffee session today at 2:50p PT — we have a number of topics to choose from, all led by trained facilitators. Here is the list of topics and corresponding Zoom links to join. Engage in meaningful discussions and meet your fellow attendees!
As the “rooms” fill up, we will be marking them as full and ask that you consider joining another open room/topic. Have fun! ☕
Thursday, Oct 15 LC Topics/Facilitators
Leadership Alignment | Dave Mangot
Mural Rm 2
Zoom 2: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/3237947185?pwd=NFROUnhINEhRbjBSSlhpOHpMa00xdz09
Metrics Pitfalls | Bryan Finster
Mural Rm 3
Zoom 3: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/4026964516?pwd=aC9BTDZMbW4wZkVwYUpjeUsrUlJoQT09
Project to Product | Dominica DeGrandis
Mural Rm 4
Zoom 4: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/3702465862?pwd=VTByWERaUmM2ay9ucFh0MXZObUYzUT09
Outcomes Over Output | Dan Sloan
Mural Rm 5
Zoom 5: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5753560914?pwd=NVpRTDFzY0lRYlV0eEhkdEkzTHVvQT09
The Role of Communities In Our Work | James Simon NOW FULL
Mural Rm 6
Zoom 6: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5305938647?pwd=MWlXQlkrYWZvWUpMYmQxR0t1Rzg5QT09
Sooner Safer Happier | Zsolt Berend. FULL
Mural Rm 7
Zoom 7: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/4318516822?pwd=L0Q5STRyM1k1eGxXNU96c3lKQ1RZdz09
Value Streams | Steve Pereira
Mural Rm 8
Zoom 8: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/8455071049?pwd=OUM3S3B0bmdSR0E4TWhpRjhzZFhuQT09
Remote Work Grumpiness | Nazia Ali
Mural Rm 9
Zoom 9: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5560893461?pwd=anVhYmFFSC9YaXp5c2NHZnZqQ1RBQT09
Changing Behavior | Jeffrey Fredrick
Mural Rm 10
Zoom 10: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/6033264036?pwd=Q081a2tJbGVFWFE0YWZqS2doWlhwQT09
We still have space for more in Room 7 with @berendzs, one of the coauthors of the upcoming Sooner Safer Happier! Sooner Safer Happier | Zsolt Berend Mural Rm 7 Zoom 7: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/4318516822?pwd=L0Q5STRyM1k1eGxXNU96c3lKQ1RZdz09
From Project to Product
Thanks again @dave great conversation and nice to meet you!
Likewise. I'm rooting for Edward Jones (and you)!
Sure. The point of pointing is to capture planning metrics. You can do the same with similarly sized work.
On my current product we haven’t used story points at all. We aren’t that worried about planning metrics, just on what’s blocking is and what’s the next highest priority. More Kanban than Scrum.
3 story sizes • NFI: No Freakin' Idea • 1 • TFB: Too Freakin' Big
Story counting. Regression to the mean (law of averages, so long as roughly a 1) It's the conversation that matters.
I have gathered data from hundreds of teams, and I have found that work items don't even need to be similarly sized in order to provide good forecasts, as much of the total duration of any item will be spent in wait states ie low flow efficiency.
Also, Ron Jeffries has said this many times, "I may have invented story points, and if I did, I'm sorry."
@catswetel "much of the total duration of any item will be spent in wait states", excellent insight that I hadn't reached yet. Thanks.
I believe page 150 in Making Work Visible is an overview of flow efficiency. I like how @dominica has made this idea accessible to knowledge workers. We borrow a lot of terms from manufacturing, but it seemed like "process cycle efficiency" was not catching on. lol Thank goodness for "flow efficiency."
@catswetel: struck by that same insight that Bryan mentioned. I’ve not read MWV so this may be a dumb question: if you improve your flow efficiency so that items aren’t spent in wait states does that mean your forecasts then become “worse” in that the variation in work items starts to dominate?
I don’t remember anything about that specifically in MWV and I can’t see anything on a quick flick through it again (definitely worth a reread!) May be worth seeing if @dominica is still around here. My 2c: once you’ve improved flow efficiency to that degree then slicing becomes even more important - as Jon says above, slice everything that’s TFB down to 1 point / ideal day / gummi bear and work more on things that are NFI. But then what does “forecast” mean because you’re not slicing everything in your backlog, just the top priority features. That then means you have strong confidence in your forecast for the next few iterations because you’ve sliced well. Further out - not so much, but then those aren’t your top priority features so maybe accurate forecasts aren’t so important. There’s a whole other book to be written on this (Planning Extreme Programming is a lost classic which gives it a good go).
how do we pair w/ mgmt wanting to know when features will be delivered (which PI) and what dependencies we need on other teams as part of this ritual
yeah, I have not seen accuracy of forecasts decrease in any significant way as flow efficiency increases, but the models for forecasting definitely change (from emphasis on wait times/queues to emphasis on expertise). the changes I see as a result of emphasis on decreased wait times often have the effect of driving out variability through the maturation of interfaces and platforms OR the colocation (literally or figuratively) of experts. that being said, I have seen extremely few value streams achieve anything that I would call flow efficiency rather than inefficiency. lol I am not sure that's bad, given the complexity of the systems we have created. I think it's natural (for now). It's just interesting.... 🤷 I dunno, @jtf
@syedhussainchi I always look to Troy Magennis for help on planning around dependencies. 💕 I think the most important insight I've had is to decouple prioritization and sequencing. That made my life much easier.
Also, Troy always sends people this diagram (used for triage in hospital emergency rooms). I find it very helpful:
It's the "ESI" Emergency Severity Index. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Severity_Index
@rohrersm See pg 94 of MWV where I touch on the perception that allocating workload by WIP limits won't fly b/c work items aren't all the same size. But size doesn't really matter b/c we can only really work on so many things at a time. It doesn't matter how big or small something is when you can only truly focus on one complicated thing at a time. When that work is done (regardless of size), you move on to the next thing. @jtf @catswetel
^this came up on a panel I was on about mob programming...reducing WIP decreases variability of forecasts
Rm 4 - Project-to-Product
Hard to kill products with high value. I believe it's the product itself that is valuable - not the project.
Room 5 - Outcomes over Output, Remote Work, and Cross-Departmental Alignment. Thanks to our participants for a great conversation!