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2020-10-15
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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:10:57

Oh, Dune references? "If you deploy without rhythm, it won't attract the CAB."

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili09:10:57

Oh, Dune references? "If you deploy without rhythm, it won't attract the CAB."

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)11:10:50

I shall not CAB. CAB is the mind killer. CAB is the little death that brings oblivion...

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:10:10

"Muad'Dib learned rapidly because his first training was in how to learn. And the first lesson of all was the basicย trustย that he could learn.ย It's shocking to find how many people do notย believeย they can learn, and how many more believeย learningย to be difficult.ย Muad'Dibย knewย that everyย experienceย carries its lesson."

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:10:03

O you who know what we suffer here, do not forget us in yourย prayers.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:10:10

"We are generalists. You can't draw neat lines around planet-wide problems. Planetology is a cut-and-fit science."

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:10:51

"Control the coinage and the courts โ€” let the rabble have the rest."

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:10:46

Hmm. I'll add this to the curriculum of the DevOps Academy ๐Ÿ˜„

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili11:10:00

โ€œThere is no escapeโ€”we pay for the technical debt of our ancestors.โ€

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)12:10:19

Many good lessons in Dune. ๐Ÿ˜‰

David Roth15:10:50

The spice (deployments) must flow.

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Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili15:10:40

โ€œThere is no real ending. Itโ€™s just the place where you stop the story.โ€ - Frank Herbert in his foreword to Project to Product.

Ferrix Hovi - Head of DevOps - Siili15:10:43

โ€œDeep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical executive team that makes sense. But the real executive team is always one step beyond logic.โ€

Philip Day18:10:47

paying for the debt of our ancestors - MMT fans will bristle ๐Ÿ™‚

Teri Patrick16:10:42

Using GitHub as a consensus engine for policy/standards is fascinating. Seems like collaboration platforms should look into creating effective consensus tools - that provide some intelligence around how well the input supports an actual consensus. It touches back on the need to connect disparate POVs within a complex organization to make effective decisions.

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Brandon Brown - Nike - Sr. SW Engineer II18:10:20

Thanks for being here @chawklady

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Courtney - CTO at Zulily18:10:31

Thanks to everyone joining today!

Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:59

๐Ÿ‘ thanks for being part of the panel and bringing this topic to light!

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Dr. J18:10:00

๐Ÿ‘‹:skin-tone-5:

Nazia Ali, Cox Automotive18:10:12

thank you all for joining!

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Dr. J18:10:21

Welcome all!!

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Andy Burton18:10:32

Go Hokies!

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Courtney - CTO at Zulily18:10:33

yep lots of pwd happening after that lol

Woody Evans18:10:36

been there. done that.

Andy Burton18:10:42

we've all done it once. Hopefully just once.

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:44

OMG! I did that in Prod at a DC in /bin @chawklady.

Courtney - CTO at Zulily18:10:09

happy to know iโ€™m in good company! ๐Ÿ™‚

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:39

I was FTPing binaries from a related DC ASAP. No outage, just heart attack.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:25

"why is this rm taking so long?" ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:43

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh noooooooooooooo

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:04

I did, however, stop tax calculations in Argentina for a month, so...

Courtney - CTO at Zulily18:10:35

thatโ€™s the EXACT feeling I had - i was in / so that was awesome ๐Ÿ˜ฌ

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:19

I did take down Sun's DC during peak EOQ shipping for about an hour though. Killed the root process.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:29

So much fail is why we should never have prod access except via pipeline. ๐Ÿ˜„

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:10

Great example @chawklady

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:19

You were fortunate to be in an environment with that safety. It's the system allowing the rm-rf * to happen, rather than the individual

Courtney - CTO at Zulily18:10:03

exactly - and it turned into a great conversation about investing in resilience

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop18:10:17

"Set up conditions for ppl to learn fast." @chawklady #psychological-safety

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop18:10:17

"Set up conditions for ppl to learn fast." @chawklady #psychological-safety

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Courtney - CTO at Zulily18:10:17

Iโ€™ve started using โ€œlearn fastโ€ instead of โ€œfail fastโ€ with my teams.

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:21

No such thing as a failed experiment

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Ricardo Viana18:10:00

@chawklady People sometimes focus too much on the word "fail" and forget you're supposed to be learning something from the execution failure. The experiment is only a failure if you learn nothing. I'll try the "learn fast" angle, it might resonate better with some people. Thanks for sharing that idea

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:33

Need more leadership understanding this

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Andy Nelson18:10:42

I just told a UX designer on my team this AM that one main goal for a pilot is "speed to learning" rather than making it perfect

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:13

The requirements are wrong
We misunderstand them
They will change before we deliver

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:17

"Do it right the first time" isn't a possibility.

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Ricardo Viana18:10:13

@bryan.finster That "the requirements will change" statement is a tell tale of someone who "didn't get it" yet. They are usually thinking of a big deployment (which is not what we want, to begin with). If we deploy small, simple and fast, they better change the requirements as we go, otherwise chances are we are learning nothing

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:03

Yes, the above is my problem statement for designing a system of delivery that overcomes that truth.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:17

My definition of the actual "agile mindset"

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:23

"They will change" is a symptom of assuming that the unknowable is knowable

Ricardo Viana18:10:33

@jonathansmart1 Very true, or worse, that "the boss' opionion" equates "knowable", at least as far as one is concerned to keep their job. Sad times....

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:17

Nod, smile, say yes and then show value regularly. IME, usually people eventually pivot from 'requirement' as a thinking error, to how can we next maximise value

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:08

I tell teams, "we're trying to see if this is what the user needs. The expected outcome is we're probably wrong. How much wrong do you want to be?"

inactive18:10:22

Such a wonderful panel!!!

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Dr. J18:10:32

EXCELLENT panelists! It was such an honor to engage in dialogue with them.

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:07

@diamond.f.lee7 great answer

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Ricardo Viana18:10:18

There's a lot of power in warm and fuzzy

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop18:10:18

"Having a seat at the table for you to contribute further empowers you and creates a virtuous cycle." @drjgoosbysmith YES! A seat at the table enables ppl to have some confidence, some hope of success,

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Dr. J18:10:10

Absolutely!

Dan Sloan, Cox Automotive18:10:24

That 'sense of belonging' is so essential - well said @nazia.ali

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:03

DEC ๐Ÿ™‚

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inactive18:10:06

DEC!!!!

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Dr. J18:10:24

Oh WOW!!! Digital Command Language! THROWBACK THURSDAY!

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Ricardo Viana18:10:25

I feel that mentorship is still, for most, an untapped trove of treasures. I'm glad we are talking about this now as something we should be searching for with intent

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:02

Mentorship is so important. I'm mentoring a new value stream architect right now. She's awesome, but has some of my old bad habits. I tell her stories of my fails. My mentor does the same for me.

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop18:10:24

Mentor and mentee relationships seem to have a natural magnetism - something that can't be forced or insincere.

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:58

I agree. in all of my mentor / mentee relationships, we are partners.

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Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty18:10:13

That is such an important point about the mentor need changing @drjgoosbysmith - many (most?) of my early career mentors have now retired. They still advise me but I look at this awesome community as a collection of new mentors.

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Tish18:10:31

I'm not sure I would even know what it would look like to be in a mentor relationship.

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Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty18:10:02

Some suggestions: A former boss or colleague (stay in touch!), a leader that is a peer to your boss, a senior peer in your group (including broader group)

Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty18:10:11

(To the answer of how to find people who may be potential mentors).

Dr. J18:10:25

Email a panelist. Find her on LinkedIn. I always had to find/assign people to be my mentors. Onward.

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Tish18:10:05

So you would have a mentor that isn't part of your organization?

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:23

I asked people here if I could contact them and bounce ideas off them. It's useful to have people with an outside perspective in executive leadership roles you can talk to when you're trying to figure out how to communicate to that level.

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Tish18:10:13

@bryan.finster Interesting... I would never even have thought to do something like that.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:43

Pro tip @letitia.soulliard all of the speakers from other companies are eager to share. DM them. ๐Ÿ˜‰

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop18:10:49

"Confidentiality factor powerful to create safe environment to enable growth. " @nazia.ali

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James Simon, FCA, Solution Architect18:10:14

Almost all of my mentors are virtual and outside of my company

Ricardo Viana18:10:19

@drjgoosbysmith Great point. That's where Radical Candor needs to be part of the dialog with your mentor, otherwise all you have is a babysitter

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Dr. J18:10:41

Exactly. SOMEONE has to pull my coat tail. โ€œYes peopleโ€ donโ€™t stretch me.

Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:55

ugh "keep doin' what you're doin" โฌ…๏ธ so vague

Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:23

more of / less of / stop doing now

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:33

Two way mentoring ๐Ÿ‘ "Reverse mentoring"

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Ricardo Viana18:10:21

Smart mentors will be open to learn from their mentees

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:32

A mentor is not necessarily someone more experienced, more senior

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:56

Some of the best mentoring, IME, is new graduates mentoring "senior leaders"

James Simon, FCA, Solution Architect18:10:57

Are you seeing management open to this?

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:12

Open to it and embracing it

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:30

It's a whole new perspective

James Simon, FCA, Solution Architect18:10:58

I have always assumed everyone I meet can teach me something

Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:23

Not clouded by years of cognitive biases. If safe, holds the mirror up.

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Austin Wimberly18:10:35

@chawklady - WE need more leaders who are willing to do this for people, especially if they are not their direct reports.

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:12

@drjgoosbysmith I would posit that "Timely, Direct Feedback" should be added to your list of Ubuntic Fertilizers ๐Ÿ™‚

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Mark Fuller18:10:21

A personal retrospective approach seems to be a good start. Start / Stop / Continue is one framework that can work well.

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Jennifer Velasquez18:10:16

โ€œwonโ€™t learn in an echo chamberโ€, surround yourself with different views.

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:18

Me: how am I doing? Mgr: Keep doin' what you're doin' Me: [leans in] no, really... how am I doing?

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:18

Me: how am I doing? Mgr: Keep doin' what you're doin' Me: [leans in] no, really... how am I doing?

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Jon Smart [Sooner Safer Happier]18:10:01

Mgr: how are you doing? X: Great! Making great progress on X, Y, Z Mgr: No. How are YOU doing?

DevOpsManagerPDX18:10:00

Mgr will get a better response if sincerely ask โ€œHowโ€™s Life?โ€ vs. How are you doing? or how is it going?

Matt Cobby (NAB)20:10:19

I feel the spirit of Simon Wardley is in this channel...

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Austin Wimberly18:10:00

Yeah, I don't like that answer either @nuwayser

Dr. J18:10:09

Omg! Iโ€™m counting my โ€œUmms!โ€ ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜‚

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Austin Wimberly18:10:44

@drjgoosbysmith - Hey we have to keep our own gardens weed free too, right?

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Dr. J18:10:45

In my culture, we would say, โ€œPreach!โ€

Austin Wimberly18:10:30

Being from the South, I can appreciate that too!

Ricardo Viana18:10:12

@drjgoosbysmith That garden metaphor is catching on..... ๐Ÿ˜„

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop18:10:04

@drjgoosbysmith What abt experiences where young women have a hard time finding mentors in a male oriented workforce due to perception of unprofessional attraction?

Dr. J18:10:04

I say find a male mentor then. There is one man in that organization that is willing to help you learn something. While I have had powerful Black female mentors, my older, White, male mentors have been SO instrumental. They shared with me ideas and possibilities that I sometimes had NEVER considered.

Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop18:10:27

I mean - in an environment where the men sometimes avoid mentoring women - b/c it's "safer" for them to just mentor other men?

Billy Jo (he/him)18:10:51

From that perspective, I try/hope to demonstrate through my speech and actions that I'm open to mentoring anyone regardless of gender, but I can't point to anything specific that I do as a specific nod toward women. Is there something I could/should be doing or saying?

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Dr. J18:10:53

That happens a LOT. But when a person sees that you welcome the criticism and act on it, that person will often feel a little bit more comfortable. Also, it may be relationship building first. Or, donโ€™t even MENTION the word โ€œmentor.โ€ I might just start by asking questions. Most of my career Iโ€™ve been the only female, only Black person. When I started I was the youngest. NO ONE has ever asked to mentor me. I just took the leap and expected the best. Only 2 were not receptive.

Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop18:10:45

Relationship building first - YES! To obtain a level of trust and to observe work interactions.

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Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty18:10:23

Also so true - in fact as you advance in your career the more frequently you are both a mentor and a mentee! Both are rewarding. I learned about the term DevOps first some someone I was mentoring! (this was back in 2010)

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John Osborne18:10:45

I would always ask colleagues and even managers for feedback on my performance they would say "Great" or "Keep Doing what you're doing". Now when I am asking for feedback about ways to improve my performance I'll ask specifically "What is one thing I could have done differently?" that way it puts the onus on the person being asked to give at least 1 thing I could do better.

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Billy Jo (he/him)18:10:53

Not even necessarily better, just differently. It calls back to the point about unique perspectives.

Dr. J18:10:24

And it signals that you are open to and desirous of actionable critical feedback.

Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:39

I once worked somewhere where work/life balance was so out of whack that I started calling it life/work balance.

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Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty18:10:19

My favorite new take on that one is "work life harmony". Balance implies some 50/50 split - which is not real

Andy Nelson18:10:22

Ive also heard/used work life integration... Now that I type that phrase it has taken on a 10X meaning in the covid era...

Matt Ring (he/him) - Product/Engineering Coach, John Deere18:10:35

@paula.thrasher totally agree! I had another sr. leader call it "Work Life Fit". She had the same arguments you did. It's not a balance. But I do like "harmony" better.

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Dr. J18:10:53

I like that. And the harmony is dynamic.

Ricardo Viana18:10:45

I like "harmony", especially because sometimes one or the other will need more attention for periods of time for whatever other force majeure events. "Balance" does imply 50/50 and "harmony" could vary from person to person, depending on personality, life situation, preference, etc

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:12

Fighting imposter syndrome constantly.

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Dr. J18:10:15

Yep. That means youโ€™re steadily growing.

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Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:27

I talked to Kent Beck abut his crushing imposter syndrome. It helps to know he feels it too.

Bryan Finster - Walmart (Speaker)18:10:03

I need a less stressful way to grow @drjgoosbysmith

Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty18:10:38

I have often reminded staff working for me who are feeling imposter syndrome that 90% of people feel this - and the alternative is hubris and narcasissm - treat it as a sign you are open to learning.

Paula Thrasher - PagerDuty18:10:00

(this is my inner self talk too.. ha)

Ricardo Viana18:10:05

If Kent Beck has imposter syndrome, we need to call it something else. "Growing pains", maybe, @drjgoosbysmith? ๐Ÿ™‚

Jennifer Velasquez18:10:57

Eye opening when you realize you are not aloneโ€ฆ never dreamed.

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Matt Ring (he/him) - Product/Engineering Coach, John Deere18:10:13

@paula.thrasher Yes! I've become at (more) peace with my Imposter Syndrome and feel glad it's not Dunning-Kruger Effect!

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Dr. J19:10:21

Amen to a less stressful way. Still ๐Ÿ‘€ ing

Pete Nuwayser - IBM18:10:17

@drjgoosbysmith what's the relationship between imposter syndrome and intrapersonal inclusion? they sound like they're neighbors.

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Dr. J18:10:41

They are ROOMMATES!

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John Osborne18:10:56

@drjgoosbysmith Did you read Soul Of a New Machine?

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Dr. J18:10:14

Absolutely. That was about DG

Dr. J18:10:31

BUT it had SO much of DECโ€™s heart in it.

John Osborne18:10:39

Yes that's why I asked :-)

Dr. J18:10:37

Also, Ed Schein wrote a book called Long Live DEC, DEC is dead. It broke my heart to read. DEC was a company ahead of its time. STILL the best corporate environment in which I worked. It was an engineerโ€™s company.

John Osborne18:10:26

Do you recommend it as read?

Dr. J19:10:25

Yes! It makes you thing through culture, strategy, networking, a lot.

Urvi Trivedi18:10:00

imposter syndrome is SO REAL!!!

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Craig Cook - IBM18:10:45

When I hear someone say "I am just.." I get triggered. I have to say something. You are more than that.

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Dr. J18:10:27

Your comment really touched my heart.

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Tish18:10:39

guity. ๐Ÿ˜Š

Craig Cook - IBM18:10:41

It's a sign the person does not value what they are doing. Everyone is doing something important.

Ricardo Viana18:10:18

Funny thing is that the people who don't feel imposter syndrome are typically the ones who don't know enough to understand they know very little. They are very loud too...

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Dr. J18:10:58

That is such a good point!

Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop18:10:28

THIS --> "Give yourself some grace" @chawklady Have compassion for yourself.

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Austin Wimberly18:10:36

Every new role I have has me second guessing myself until I settle in. @diamond.f.lee7 - it never stops and it's one of the things that we have self reflect on so we can improve.

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Dr. J18:10:38

So true. It never stops until we stop growing.

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Austin Wimberly18:10:42

It's like so many other things, we have to own that aspect of our selves and figure out how we move forward.

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Ricardo Viana18:10:32

If it's not uncomfortable we're not growing. But Imposter Syndrome is more than being uncomfortable, I think it's mostly losing confidence that we are going in the right direction, or that everything we have done so far was the right thing to do. For me, having a mentor has helped to keep those misperceptions in check

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Dr. J19:10:33

Yes. Loss of self-efficacy. Mentors are critical.

Adam Eury - Nike - Release Deploy Lead18:10:46

i didn't feel comfortable with work/life balance until i felt financially secure enough to be fired. i admire anyone who can do so before that.

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Dr. J19:10:12

That is one of the reasons I so admired Tony Dungy. Leadership sets and reinforces such an important workforce value. Dungy told them to give it all during the day and GO HOME. https://coachesinsider.com/football/integrity-tony-dungy/ Fair work life balance was a key theme in the modelโ€™s โ€œFairnessโ€ dimension.

Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop19:10:01

If you don't learn to say no when you need to, your body will say it for you in the form of illness/burnout/disease See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karoshi#:~:text=Karoshi%20(%E9%81%8E%E5%8A%B4%E6%AD%BB%2C%20Kar%C5%8Dshi),stress%20and%20a%20starvation%20diet.

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Dr. J19:10:30

Thank you for finding this reference!!

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)19:10:04

this is a powerful story from @jwillis

Dr. J19:10:33

My heart... @jwillis

Dr. J19:10:03

Thank you for sharing this @jeff.gallimore It is REAL

jeff.gallimore (CTIO - Excella, he/him)19:10:31

@drjgoosbysmith yeah. that. i read his post just after he wrote it and that story has stayed with me since.

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Dr. J19:10:08

It is haunting

John Willis20:10:37

Thanks Jeff. I recently did an updated burnout presentation for an internal RedHat event. I still break put in tears every time I see my slide with the picture of that beautiful young man Carlo.

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inactive19:10:24

PS: I canโ€™t wait to see @jennifer.hansen and the rest of the Capital One team present their amazing experience report this afternoon โ€” our first plenary session this afternoon! Theyโ€™re so good!!!!

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inactive19:10:00

Cc @tapabrata.pal ๐ŸŽ‰๐ŸŽ‰๐ŸŽ‰

Ricardo Viana19:10:46

Loved this panel! Loved the interactive aspect of this discussion too. Thank you!

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Dominica DeGrandis, Author - Making Work Visible, Tasktop19:10:23

Many Thanks @drjgoosbysmith for facilitating this insightful panel. Well done!!

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John Osborne19:10:22

Thank you everyone

๐Ÿ‘ 2
Austin Wimberly19:10:07

Great panel, and great Slack discussions folks!

๐Ÿ‘ 1
Dr. J19:10:26

PLEASE know I am NOT CUTTING THEM OFF in reality! Thereโ€™s a slight timing glitch.

โœ… 9
John Osborne19:10:11

@anamos21252 Happy to have an open discussion about Red Hat - I'm also in the DMV, we have a big office here in Tysons - https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnfosborneiii/

โค๏ธ 1
Dan Sloan, Cox Automotive19:10:07

DevOps - "It's all about people." ~ @chawklady!

โค๏ธ 4
Tom Coudyzer19:10:29

๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

Pete Nuwayser - IBM19:10:29

thank you @chawklady @drjgoosbysmith @jennifer.hansen @nazia.ali @anamos21252 @diamond.f.lee7 and Shreya Chatterjee - so many great reminders about asking, listening, giving, receiving and LIVING in the interdependent web of life. @genek101 this was a great panel - well-curated with this morning's lineup ๐Ÿ™

โค๏ธ 5
๐Ÿ‘ 4
inactive19:10:45

@jennifer.hansen Iโ€™ll reach out to you next week โ€” Iโ€™d love to brainstorm with you on how to creating opportunities for great interactions outside of the conference!!! Cc @mvk842 @jeff.gallimore ๐ŸŽ‰๐ŸŽ‰๐ŸŽ‰

โœ… 2
๐Ÿ™Œ 1
Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)19:10:51

yay - itโ€™s so sad to see the Slack (for example) quiet and empty between DOES conferences

Zell Gagnon19:10:20

yay @moonmaster9000! Congrats!

โค๏ธ 1
Jeremy Sechler19:10:27

Amazing to see the way @drjgoosbysmith facilitated this excellent panel to talk about so many important things. Thank you.

โค๏ธ 1
โž• 1
Dr. J19:10:41

They were AMAZING!!!!!

John Osborne19:10:49

Looking forward to reading one of your books @drjgoosbysmith

โค๏ธ 1
Dr. J19:10:52

Iโ€™m rewriting the first one with a publisher at a LOWER price point than the academic publisher set!! It should hit Amazon in late Spring!! Thanks for your comments and support!

Andy Nelson19:10:44

Hey @moonmaster9000! ๐Ÿ‘‹

๐Ÿ‘‹ 2
Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)19:10:22

Welcome @moonmaster9000!

๐Ÿ™ 1
Andy Nelson19:10:25

is that initech?

2
Dr. J19:10:37

Somebody has a case of the Mondayโ€™s...

Zell Gagnon19:10:51

Is there like, a bullet point definition of Radical Collaboration?

Denee (de-NAY) Ferguson - Director, Technology - Capital One (Speaker)19:10:07

@moonmaster9000 and....we are back to the office office......

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:51

@zoe not really. There's no litmus test for it. I think of it as an experience of working or playing with others that is fun and meaningful and challenging, and marked by colearning, caring, and safe-making (which I'll cover in the talk).

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:58

but I also think words fail to really capture the experience. It's something probably almost everyone has experienced, but may be surprisingly hard to really capture it in words. Poets probably do it best.

Zell Gagnon19:10:03

haha, thatโ€™s harder to sell

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)23:10:42

Salesperson: "As this poem clearly shows, Radical Collaboration is..."

๐Ÿ˜„ 1
Chris Gallivan, FCA, Builder of JOY19:10:51

Now we all work in a microservice office

2
Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:20

Totally! Manufacturing mobbing.

Joe Moretti - Synapse Wireless19:10:03

That is so cool. I would love to get my hands dirty on the making of my car!

โค๏ธ 3
Ricardo Viana19:10:05

I had this conversation before at work with some of our teams that used to be very concerned about org chart authority and a means to validate work. We say that there is still a supervisor role, but it's shared by everyone in the team

โค๏ธ 1
Zell Gagnon19:10:20

Hey I know those folks

Dr. J19:10:29

I love that! Must use.

Virginia Laurenzano NSA (Speaker)19:10:13

ditto. I'm certain the top brass only thought Agile Air Force when it was first used ๐Ÿ˜‰

๐Ÿ˜‚ 1
Chris Gallivan, FCA, Builder of JOY19:10:53

You can tell by their response to covid

Chris Gallivan, FCA, Builder of JOY19:10:09

I always park in the pickup area at Home Depot. The app changes all the time - and the changes make sense

๐Ÿ‘ 1
Virginia Laurenzano NSA (Speaker)19:10:58

they have given a number of talks at OSCON that help explain how they manage inventory and comms. really cool stuff

Chris Gallivan, FCA, Builder of JOY19:10:02

I often wondered how they did it

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations19:10:22

wondering if Teal Organizations is going to come up

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:59

I can tell you that it's not because I have never heard of a Teal organization--anything you can share before I start googling?

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations19:10:28

From the book Reinventing Organization and the related material Iโ€™ve seen I think the dynamics feel very similar to what youโ€™re describing.

๐Ÿ‘ 2
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations19:10:59

the discussion of authenticity reinforces the connection to Teal for me.

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations19:10:58

We develop a sensitivity for situations that donโ€™t quite feel right, situations that demand that we speak up and take action, even in the face of opposition or with seemingly low odds of success, out of a sense of integrity and authenticity. < from the wiki

Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)19:10:47

Collective learning needs psychological safety, both happen at the team level

โ˜๏ธ 3
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations19:10:49

you need to be vulnerable to do that kind of learning

โ˜๏ธ 2
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations19:10:21

Iโ€™ve always liked this diagram of whatโ€™s required for true collaboration: http://stratechery.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/collaboration.jpg

โค๏ธ 1
โœ… 2
๐Ÿ‘ 4
Andy Nelson19:10:39

Ben Thompson has some phenomenal stuff - fully recommend. I actually read the uncanny valley article when I started at my new company (my VP came from Microsoft)

โž• 2
Andy Nelson19:10:29

(finally @jtf references something I know off the top of my head - my conference bingo card is now complete...)

Chrystina Nguyen, Rhythmic Technologies19:10:30

wholesomely agree. We all just need love!

โค๏ธ 2
Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)19:10:21

Completely agree products or services around psychological safety should be designed with care in mind and to avoid the punitive

Chris Gallivan, FCA, Builder of JOY19:10:24

Havenโ€™t seen that office in 6 months :)

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations19:10:41

reminds me of the story in Maverick! of the factory workers taking on the support roles

Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations19:10:35

including the factory workers painting the factory the way they wanted

Jo Osborne (Software Engineer - G-Research)19:10:19

Yeah, that warning against weaponisation resonates so much - so easy for unintended outcomes to emerge when we try to change cultural behaviours

๐Ÿ‘ 1
โ˜๏ธ 2
Ffion Jones (Partner, PeopleNotTech)19:10:29

Completely agree, it's hard work to focus on your people but with the right intention and care it can be transformative.

Jo Osborne (Software Engineer - G-Research)19:10:49

oh definitely - it is so worth making these changes. I think people get discouraged when they try things and it doesn't work because they never considered "how can people implement this change in a way that backfires?" better to start with "this is a good idea" and "this is how it might go wrong" so "let's take care" ๐Ÿ™‚

๐Ÿ‘ 1
Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)19:10:29

How do you see constructing RC workspaces in a 100% remote environment?

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:15

I think the idea would be the same (the makers themselves know what furniture, tools and "spaces" work best for them) but would obviously would look different when everyone is distributed. Tools like http://sococo.com that reduce barriers to distributed information collaboration come to mind. What do you think?

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)19:10:48

I agree they would make (and remake) the space and choose the interactions that suit them.

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)19:10:56

In the context of a large organization with 1000+ employees, have you seen models of success with rc workspace autonomy you can point to?

Chris Gallivan, FCA, Builder of JOY19:10:02

We use mural to try and bridge the gap

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:11

@nickeggleston the ASK system at Pivotal scaled surprisingly well. We made our workspace what we wanted it to be by sending an ask@ email. And who was empowered to say "yes" to our asks? Our pivots at the front desk. They were called "Directors of Happiness"

Zell Gagnon19:10:49

Giving them the job of unblocking happiness and putting them directly with their customers was a really good combination - Works very well for most teams

โค๏ธ 1
Jeffrey Fredrick, Author-Agile Conversations19:10:55

Dan Pinkโ€™s drive describes how central autonomy is (along with purpose and mastery): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc

๐Ÿ‘ 2
Andy Nelson19:10:05

BINGO - another book Ive read and something I refer my coworkers to. Also fully recommend

๐Ÿ˜† 1
Philip Day19:10:08

this is an incredible firehose in a conference of firehoses... how do we get the book??

๐Ÿ˜† 1
Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:01

@philipday I have to finish writing it first ๐Ÿ˜ญ

๐Ÿ’ช 1
2
Jo Osborne (Software Engineer - G-Research)19:10:57

I don't want to mess with your intrinsic motivation but I'm looking forward to reading it ๐Ÿ™‚

โž• 1
Philip Day19:10:25

do you have an email sign up or anything?

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:16

http://www.mattkparker.com has a form for sign up. Or just follow me on twitter (realmattkparker) or linked in (matt-k-parker) as I'll promote myself on those platforms โ˜บ๏ธ

Philip Day19:10:09

๐Ÿ‘ twitter done

Philip Day19:10:37

Just had a look on the website... it's quite light... do you have any blogposts or anything anywhere?

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)23:10:22

Sorry, I don't. I should get on that ๐Ÿ˜ณ

Philip Day00:10:07

If you take the transcript of today's talk, add in some of the bits you said you were skipping, add some links.. that would be awesome (and would also be a trailer for the book ๐Ÿ“ˆ)

Philip Day17:10:22

Me again... just going through my files and noticed your slide deck in the dropbox has only got the intro slide

Leah Brown - IT Revolution19:10:50

Publishing history!! @moonmaster9000, you're stealing my heart! โค๏ธ

1
Federico San Martin19:10:48

OMG I want more of this radical collaboration talk

๐Ÿ™ 1
Leah Brown - IT Revolution19:10:49

@moonmaster9000โ€™s book is tentatively schedule for a 2022 release. Come follow IT Revolution to learn more!

๐Ÿ‘ 2
DevOpsManagerPDX19:10:52

Thank you @moonmaster9000,

๐Ÿ™ 1
Virginia Laurenzano NSA (Speaker)19:10:57

awesome talk! can't wait for the follow-up

๐Ÿ™ 1
Zell Gagnon19:10:58

๐Ÿ‘๐Ÿ‘

๐Ÿ™ 1
Federico San Martin19:10:13

@moonmaster9000 that was absolutely awesome

๐Ÿ™ 1
Zell Gagnon19:10:15

Please write a book that will teach me how to sell this next (it turns out its really hard)

1
Sam Larson - Engineering Director at OneNeck19:10:18

Loved that @moonmaster9000 - can't wait for the book.

๐Ÿ™ 1
Christopher S Donahue19:10:28

Thanks @moonmaster9000! Looking forward to your book.

๐Ÿ™ 1
Andy Nelson19:10:36

@moonmaster9000 Cheers!๐Ÿป Loved the ran out of time on a recording #bossmove - very authentic and vulnerable of you

๐Ÿ™ 2
โž• 2
Venkata L - American Airlines19:10:49

That was awesome presentation on RC.

๐Ÿ™ 2
Ed Marshall - Enterprise Agility - Deloitte19:10:54

๐Ÿ‘:skin-tone-3:looking forward to the book @moonmaster9000

๐Ÿ™ 1
Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)19:10:06

@moonmaster9000 so engaging! Do you have any other talks online we can watch, and how do u prefer to be contacted?

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:55

Hi Nix! Nope, that was my first talk about this topic. I've teased a few things on my linkedin and twitter. Twitter (@realmattkparker) LinkedIn (matt-k-parker) and email (<mailto:moonmaster9000@gmail.com|moonmaster9000@gmail.com>) are all good ways to get in contact with me.

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)19:10:41

Really beautiful talk, weaving so many threads into the tapestry. ๐Ÿ™

David Roth19:10:08

total cliff hanger @moonmaster9000. I want to know more.

๐Ÿ’ฏ 2
Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:28

I'm afraid it will be a while before the book comes out (2022) but in the meantime I hope to give more DOES talks. You can also find me on linked in (matt-k-parker) and twitter (realmattkparker) and email (<mailto:moonmaster9000@gmail.com|moonmaster9000@gmail.com>) and I'm always down for consulting with orgs that want to explore what radical collaboration could look like for them.

Aaron Ashby19:10:42

@moonmaster9000 That was really thought provoking. Thank you for raising the ideas that support radical collaboration. Touches on a yearning to work in that kind of environment

๐Ÿ™ 1
Anthony Lonigro19:10:19

@moonmaster9000. That was a very interesting presentation. I would love to know more about it. My first thought was, how do you make sure work gets done on time if you are on a support team without someone overseeing the work?

Matt K. Parker he/him (Speaker/Author)19:10:04

Thank you Anthony. The most surprising thing about performance to all of us raised on the 20th century "carrot-and-stick" mentality is that people work best when they're intrinsically motivated to do so--and that extrinsic incentives reduce performance--whether those extrinsic motivators be rewards, like bonuses (or even just a positive "performance review" by your manager and the compensation bump that goes along with ), or punishments, like reprimands, PIPs, and the like.

Andy Nelson20:10:57

@alonigro Jeffrey referenced a really good summary above in https://devopsenterprise.slack.com/archives/C015DUDD9C5/p1602790675457800 of the concept Matt references

Philip Day19:10:08

so much in that, definitely have to watch again

โž• 1
๐Ÿ™ 1
David Blezard - University of New Hampshire20:10:06

Is it weird that Iโ€™m nervous about a presentation thatโ€™s already recorded and is just being played back??

๐Ÿ˜„ 1
Pete Nuwayser - IBM20:10:36

๐Ÿ‘‹ nah, I think it's probably normal

๐Ÿ˜€ 1
Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure20:10:12

You are doing wellโ€ฆ as a fellow Professor I have your backโ€ฆ

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire20:10:31

@denver.martin - What institution?

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure20:10:28

Purdue University Global, so teaching on-line, I am weaving DevOps and Cloud into all the courses I teach so that the students do not get out and caught unaware of the movement.

๐Ÿ‘ 2
Margueritte Kim (CEO, IT Revolution, she/her)21:10:12

I'm sure you know this, but @genek101 is a boilermaker!

inactive22:10:19

Oh, I forgot to mention that!!! Hahaha! I was going to say that after I gushed about your AV setup! ๐Ÿ˜† Thank you @mvk842!

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire20:10:08

I was teaching for the UNH IT program up until this year and was trying to start bringing some of those concepts into my Network and System Admin course. Some successfully, some not.

Phil Jochimsen (UW-Madison)20:10:08

We feel the same kind of huge drop to funding

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire20:10:25

@phil.jochimsen Whatโ€™s your role at UW?

Phil Jochimsen (UW-Madison)20:10:34

I work in the Central IT organization: Division of Information Technology (DoIT), and I primarily deal with all sorts of web hosting environments (Several hundred mix/match of things out on a fleet of Plesk servers, and over 1500 sites out on a wordpress multisite installation)

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure20:10:29

Yeah, I do get asked by the Chair from time to time when I drift from the โ€œdeveloped courseโ€ to muchโ€ฆ like I allow for students to use AWS free tier related to Virtualizationโ€ฆ when they were wanting them to do on laptop runtime vmsโ€ฆ

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire20:10:43

Anyone else from higher ed (IT staff or otherwise) joining in today?

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure20:10:39

I guess I am double dipping, as I also work Ellucian, the ERP that specializes on Higher Education.

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire20:10:24

Yep, we are a Banner school. Iโ€™m now overseeing application admin across USNH so Iโ€™m learning all sorts about our ERP

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire20:10:39

Thank goodness that much of the DevOps community is built on open source, which is critical for higher ed and other non-profits. That said, we have not purchased a GitLab license because thatโ€™s become so critical to our work.

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure20:10:35

So my teams would be the ones that would build, support, the Cloud Banner environment, including the connection back to campus and to 3rd party vendors.

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire20:10:33

We are still 100% on premise for ERP. We want to move to a cloud-based ERP because continuing to run and manage that level of infrastructure just makes no sense and doesnโ€™t give us any strategic benefits.

Phil Jochimsen (UW-Madison)20:10:58

I feel you on the Institutional Data that's locked away. We've done a "good" job creating organization structure (silos) that match the system structure (per Conway's law), and have installed our own Dragons as well. But...there is movement to get that stuff opened via API's! (soon, I've been told)

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure20:10:52

I agree, it would free your teams to do more interesting thingsโ€ฆ Do not fall into the trap of cutting your team, repurpose and use them to do the other fun projects that still get asked of you..

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire20:10:41

Absolutely. Weโ€™ve already been cut. We now need to move to the cloud to get out of the hole and then we can start using our staff to do new, interesting, effective things.

Phil Jochimsen (UW-Madison)21:10:08

Sort of not Dev Vs. Ops, but in Higher Ed, quite common to have HR ERP/Student ERP/Financial ERP vs. everyone else

๐Ÿ˜‚ 1
inactive21:10:41

^^^ I love this. Itโ€™s like silos are part of the human condition โ€”ย itโ€™s why I loved the @pdmoore talk, where it was Salesforce vs. Netsuite vs. etc., each with their own parochial goals!

๐Ÿ‘ 1
Phil Jochimsen (UW-Madison)21:10:38

Once I saw the "Wall of Confusion" concept a few years ago, I was seeing those silos, incentives and disincentives as something like walls of confusion between each of these students/professors/development/application owners/app admins/sysadmins

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure21:10:44

@phil.jochimsen I know what you are talking about.. we have to connect many other apps to Banner or Colleague, every school in the University seems to have their own pet connection to the CORE ERP..

๐ŸŽฏ 1
David Blezard - University of New Hampshire21:10:45

One of the cool (and somewhat overwhelming) aspects of my new position is that Iโ€™m overseeing ERP, but I also own all of the teaching/learning applications and other core enterprise apps so Iโ€™m working to break down some of those walls

inactive21:10:51

(and of course, Team of Teams. ๐Ÿ™‚

๐Ÿ˜„ 1
Craig Cook - IBM21:10:52

Releasing drupal things every 10 days is actually pretty good. We can't move that fast with it.

Phil Jochimsen (UW-Madison)21:10:09

@david.blezard Well, I envy your position to be able to de-silo ๐Ÿ™‚

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire21:10:40

@cncook001 Thanks! Much of the credit goes to my team who built some really nice pipelines and processes.

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure21:10:54

@david.blezard we have started using Synth Testing with Datadog, so that we are not using clients as the testโ€ฆ we test complete before tuning the apps back overโ€ฆ

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire21:10:22

Iโ€™ve thought about seeing what we could with a monitoring service instead of building ourself. Iโ€™ll have to check out Datadog.

โœ”๏ธ 1
Evangeline K21:10:29

love hearing about your journey @david.blezard in our SaaS product I do have to say sometimes when customers try to automate test to our production, they get caught by DDOS prevention because their automation is trying to login too many times in a short period

inactive21:10:06

Really loving the camera setup of @david.blezard โ€”ย what a great additional perk of the job! And great presentation! Thank you so much, David!!!

Pete Nuwayser - IBM21:10:09

Thanks @david.blezard ! ๐Ÿ‘

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire21:10:11

@cwookie643 Yep, Iโ€™ve flooded APIs before and gotten locked out!

๐Ÿ”ฅ 1
Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure21:10:47

Great Talk, if you have any questions about Cloud Banner, feel free to ping me, glad to help anywhere I can..

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire21:10:01

@genek101 Thanks for the feedback and the opportunity to be involved. Iโ€™ll also let our classroom tech team know that you like our learning tech! They have great systems in place.

Rich Toulouse21:10:32

Great talk @david.blezard. Great getting a different perspective on DevOps

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire21:10:35

Iโ€™ll lurk in the #ask-the-speaker-more for a while if anyone has other questions or wants to talk more.

๐Ÿ™Œ 1
inactive21:10:52

Hi, @tdietrich!! So much looking forward to meeting you โ€”ย Iโ€™ve been meaning to reach out to you for nearly a year. (And PS: Iโ€™d love for you to know that @tal is one of my favorite people in the world!)

๐Ÿ‘ 1
Pete Nuwayser - IBM21:10:02

I just put my phone away.

Teresa Dietrich21:10:30

Hi all, great to be here

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure21:10:40

@tdietrich task switching is the #1 complaint on my teamsโ€ฆ

Teresa Dietrich21:10:36

and yet we keep building and using more tools and integrations to create more opportunities for context switching

๐ŸŽฏ 2
inactive21:10:52

I love Dr. Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi!!! And it took me weeks to finally be able to say his name โ€”ย I learned there are a couple more syllables in there than I had originally thought! (It was such an influence for me in Unicorn Project. h/t @mik)

โค๏ธ 1
Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)21:10:10

Have u also been following Dr Seligman on optimism and happiness?

Matt Masuda - Quicken Loans21:10:04

My team has "focus time" blocks on our calendars during certain times of the week to try to give us uninterrupted time. I'm hoping to find some other ideas here as well.

๐Ÿ‘ 3
Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure21:10:21

we have shifted, the On-call to include normal day, and have 1 week duration, during that week no project work, all Break-fix, after that they get 6 weeks to work projectsโ€ฆ

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:46

+1 to on-call including the day, so you know when your capacity to product/customers/etc will be reduced

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:40

we've also brought business people into the support streams on this sort of schedule, so everyone gets contact with customers, contact with our service from their eyes, about 1wk per 2mo

Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure21:10:26

yes, and the ones that are on call use that time as way to find things that can be automated away to reduce number of calls.. so while no project work, there is work on reducing interruptions.

Teresa Dietrich21:10:58

i know, it's mind boggling

Tish21:10:37

The slide deck in dropbox and git only shows a single template slide not the full slide deck. Can we get the full slide deck?

inactive21:10:52

cc @jessicam

thankyou 1
Jess Meyer - IT Revolution (she/her)21:10:38

@letitia.soulliard yes- I will look into it!

๐Ÿ‘ 1
Sam Larson - Engineering Director at OneNeck21:10:42

We also encourage scheduling focus time, even for managers. We refer to as "maker time," which comes from this old Paul Graham post: http://www.paulgraham.com/makersschedule.html

Andrew Hughes - Manager, DevOps Service Delivery QA (TRIMEDX)21:10:39

We do maker time too. But, are there ways to do this that doesn't exclude folks who work differently (a la @nicolefvโ€™s point that WFH and productivity are personal)? In other words, coordinating a respect for maker time but not standardizing when/how maker time gets scheduled?

๐Ÿ‘ 1
Sam Larson - Engineering Director at OneNeck21:10:12

We don't have any standards around it's use - beyond respecting when others choose to schedule it. We just try to educate about the benefits and encourage it's use.

๐Ÿ‘ 1
Matt Cobby (NAB)21:10:40

@adam.li - the above link was how I started to realise the importance of Developer Experience

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Matt Cobby (NAB)21:10:50

I'd also recommend this one. https://jaxenter.com/aaaand-gone-true-cost-interruptions-128741.html People needย https://jaxenter.com/%E2%80%9Chttp://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324339204578173252223022388?mg=reno64-wsj&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424127887324339204578173252223022388.html%22ย to go back to their tasks after a major interruption, but the plot deepens if youโ€™re a programmer. Add at least 10 minutes to the forced break (the minimum amount of time you need to start editing code again) and there you go โ€” thatโ€™s a solid half hour you lose whenever someone approaches you. It gets worse if that interruption isย https://jaxenter.com/%E2%80%9Chttp://thetomorrowlab.com/2015/01/why-developers-hate-being-interrupted/%22 https://web.archive.org/web/20150317230234/https://thetomorrowlab.com/2015/01/why-developers-hate-being-interrupted/

Dave Mangot - DevOps transformation professional21:10:36

did @tdietrich just slam her phone on the desk to make a point? ๐Ÿ™‚

Teresa Dietrich21:10:04

probably putting it in silent mode ๐Ÿ˜‰

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Dave Mangot - DevOps transformation professional21:10:30

I've seen "No Meetings X-day" (usually Wed or Thu)

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:58

I see a lot of attempts at this. it seems to slam against other flexible working ideals, eg part time people. Getting 2-3hrs undisturbed is gold, so half day chunks.

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Denver Martin - Sr. Mgr Cloud Ops Infrastructure21:10:43

we did that and it just moved the meetings to after-hours on other days of the weekโ€ฆ

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Andrew Hughes - Manager, DevOps Service Delivery QA (TRIMEDX)21:10:59

Tasktop has "Flow Fridays" (I think?) that operate that way.

Lucas Melo (American Airlines Architect)21:10:40

My Teams have done "No meeting Fridays". Goals were focused work or learning journeys. It worked to a point. It's hard if it's not company-wide since you get invited to meetings across other orgs.

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Martin (TeamForm)21:10:29

meetings with the rest of the org seems to break this ideal. I've found that putting in 2hr "meetings" in my calendar works better, because there are still gaps to sync with others.

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:30

Lucas, do you have part-timers (eg people that work 3 or 4d/week, or are split between two teams), curious if that's influenced making time for getting into the flow

Lucas Melo (American Airlines Architect)21:10:31

You could also have a team agreement where your calendar actually shows Out-of-office those days.

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James Feudo21:10:44

I've done this with Friday afternoons blocking 1 to 5PM. The tricky part is not allowing it to fill up with meetings that couldn't fit during the earlier part of the week.

James Feudo21:10:39

@lucas.demelo - I like the idea of setting the time as OOO.

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:40

james: +1. I think when people see fully blocked out calendars they just assume something's flexible in there and throw sessions in. it's the balance between prioritising high quality interactions and collaboration, and thinking/doing time.

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Patrick S. Kelso21:10:31

We do something similar, one of the more frustrating things is the number of meeting invites we get even when we are clearly busy in the calendar. Setting autodecline for meetings solves this, but at the cost of having to auto-accept all other meetings by default which is not a trade off we are willing to make.

Manny Avila - Consulting Engineer, Cloud and Datacenter - JD Finish Line21:10:17

i too am in search of the "best way" to block out time...the various methods I have enabled are short lived as they are only as strong as leaderships spine....if they fold and ask "to make an exception for blah blah" then it starts to unravel...

Patrick S. Kelso21:10:39

Goes to psychological safety again. How can one of my direct reports refuse a meeting request from my boss's boss or peers without feeling worried.

James Feudo21:10:27

@martin391 I've noticed that too. Sometimes I feel like the only person that actually looks for someone to be free before booking a meeting.

Patrick S. Kelso21:10:50

I try to assume that I don't get sent a lot of meetings because others do look at my busy time. But I get enough invites over my busy times that it's hard to think the best of people ๐Ÿ˜„

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:45

@nl_does being empowered to refuse a meeting from the management hierarchy is one thing, and i've seen excellent leaders re-inforce this. The fun grey part in the middle is more collab meetings with non-managers in other parts of the org that just want to get stuff done.

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:56

@james_feudo which is hard to do if the next gap in schedule is days away. Reducing default meeting times to 20 or 25min has a big impact on making more time, putting pressure on concise goals and outcomes for using collaborative time.

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Teresa Dietrich21:10:50

Its hard to scale no meeting days, chunks have worked better in my experience.

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Teresa Dietrich21:10:50

Its hard to scale no meeting days, chunks have worked better in my experience.

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James Feudo21:10:39

I like your idea of using lunchtime to get away - not just to make up work.

Teresa Dietrich21:10:10

I feel like we had to re-establish that in the Covid world

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Lucas Melo (American Airlines Architect)21:10:19

@nicolefv Showed data that your are correct @tdietrich

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Teresa Dietrich21:10:16

well @nicolefv is one smart lady, so it must be true

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Martin (TeamForm)21:10:56

@tdietrich do you have hints on scaling these chunks of no-meeting time with teams or orgs that work across many time zones. eg global?

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:26

eg "that 2hr block you made for yourself is nice, but it's also the only overlap with US-East and Europe"

Teresa Dietrich21:10:44

i think it has to start from the bottom up, groups of people that most commonly work together negotiating to find chunks, giving each other feedback and iterating to find something that can last

James Feudo21:10:27

What's helped me is either going on do not disturb or closing down the mail & IM clients so I can't be interrupted.

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:03

good idea. I'd take something that can last as "next 2-3 months", and "between daylight savings changes" (prevalent for north/south hemisphere interactions, and between states that do or don't participate)

James Feudo21:10:28

And sometimes you just have to decline meetings

Andy Nelson21:10:11

theres that psychological safety again...

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Martin (TeamForm)21:10:34

making it safe for people to speak up... is how blind spots are found. have seen the reverse work to devastating results. "we don't want problems, only solutions". Great way to not be told the house is on fire.

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire21:10:19

Completely agree that managing info flow to staff is really important. So easy to have things spin off out of control from the wrong message at the wrong time to the wrong person.

David Blezard - University of New Hampshire21:10:19

Completely agree that managing info flow to staff is really important. So easy to have things spin off out of control from the wrong message at the wrong time to the wrong person.

Dave Mangot - DevOps transformation professional21:10:56

I've been called a sh*t umbrella ๐Ÿ™‚

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David Blezard - University of New Hampshire21:10:41

Right - Keep the politics off your team.

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:48

laughs at mental picture of said umbrella

Martin (TeamForm)21:10:35

Like the idea of that "focus statement", fits well in a standup or "start of day" style post.

Phil Jochimsen (UW-Madison)21:10:16

@tdietrich Can you elaborate on the "Poke" (not confrontationally) example you gave?

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Teresa Dietrich21:10:11

I have a colleague that shall remain nameless who loves to play devils advocate. They playfully warn folks before poking at their approach or idea.

inactive21:10:45

Thank you so much, @tdietrich!!! So good!

Tom Coudyzer21:10:48

๐Ÿ‘

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Pete Nuwayser - IBM21:10:00

That was great @tdietrich thank you ๐Ÿ™‚

James Feudo21:10:21

Great presentation @tdietrich. A lot of good info and good discussion here! Thanks so much!

Richard King21:10:45

Thank you Teresa! Will have to review this talk again.

Nick Eggleston, IT Architect (open to offers)21:10:47

Loved the talk, @tdietrich! Itโ€™s great that people are paying attention to these psychological factors and research.

Teresa Dietrich21:10:51

Hope you got 1 nugget to take back with you to try and improve your and your team's situation

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Peter Moore21:10:55

Solos are the single biggest deterrent to cross enterprise collaboration and innovation in companies of all sizes but particularly large well established companies. Sent from my iPhone

Rob Cuddy - DevSecOps Evangelist20:10:02

Yes - solos are great but it really takes a choir. :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing: